CCV Replacement FYI - M54

[Steve530]

I wonder if those oil level gauges on the newer BMWs are center-weighted like the water temperature gauges on the e39s.

[Doru]

Keith, never doubted your oil changing abilities - please accept my apologies.
In Fudman's thread, it seems like the root cause of the dipstick off-reading was an install error. His level showed low. Maybe I'm off the mark here, but if you look at this pic which posted in that thread,



look at the yellow arrow. That screw is at the bottom position, the dipstick guide has an oval slot to adjust for depth of insrtion maybe (I have never installed the dipstick guide, so I don't know, I just look at that pic). It seems that you can adjust how deep the dipstick goes in the sump (maybe also the O-ring issue holding the dipstick way above the correct insertion depth).
Your issue is the other way around. Looks like the guide tube was forced too deep inside the sump? But now, could this be done?
And my dipstick was not changed after the cold weather CCV install, but always showed a tad lower oil level than before. I always filled 7 qts of GC 0x30, and before the new CCV it showed the level at Max. After the change, the same amount of 7 qts always showed halfway mark. I wondered what happened, but never worried too much because I knew how much oil I was dumping in the engine, and of course it crossed my mind that it has something to do with the "new" CCV setup, but never gave it a second thought.

Now, with the new 9x series to rely solely on an electronic gizmo to tell you the oil level is a bit scary. Which I shouldn't say, because there is no way to check the ATF level on the e39 unless you drive it on ramps, have the correct ATF temp, have the car level and start taking off the filler plug - which is a tad challanging if you're not a DIY'er. Some people don't bother checking the fluid levels in their car anyways, unless there's the dash telling them to.

[Steve530]

I measured the distance between the max and min marks on the dipstick at 0.375 inches. That's about 9.5mm.

[F5D]

IMO It is not possible to force the dipstick tube too deep when installing it. However, you need to push and twist it to reach the correct depth. Otherwise I think that the o-ring will not seal properly. With both guide tubes, I pushed the tubes as far as they went, so that the upper end of the oval shaped hole was inline with the bolt thread. I cannot compare the oil levels yet because I did not manage to check the level with the new tube because the stick got stuck.

[Steve530]

In Fudman's thread, it seems like the root cause of the dipstick off-reading was an install error. His level showed low. Maybe I'm off the mark here, but if you look at this pic which posted in that thread,



look at the yellow arrow. That screw is at the bottom position, the dipstick guide has an oval slot to adjust for depth of insrtion maybe (I have never installed the dipstick guide, so I don't know, I just look at that pic). It seems that you can adjust how deep the dipstick goes in the sump (maybe also the O-ring issue holding the dipstick way above the correct insertion depth).
Your issue is the other way around. Looks like the guide tube was forced too deep inside the sump? But now, could this be done?...

The only way this could happen is that the original tube was not installed all of the way down into the sump or the tubes are different.

[champaign777]

It seems that you can adjust how deep the dipstick goes in the sump (maybe also the O-ring issue holding the dipstick way above the correct insertion depth).

Doru you cant adjust dipstick ,there is no movement where dipstick seats on the engine ( yellow arrow on picture )
It is not possible to force the dipstick tube too deep when installing it as well

Dipstick tube has only 1 position to install , wrong installation is not possible

[Steve530]

Doru you cant adjust dipstick ,there is no movement where dipstick seats on the engine ( yellow arrow on picture )
It is not possible to force the dipstick tube too deep when installing it as well

Dipstick tube has only 1 position to install , wrong installation is not possible

The support has a slotted hole for the bolt. You can install the tube too high and you will still be able bolt it to the support.

[bimmerfiver]

The tube inserts all the way down until you feel it seat on it's lip...the o-ring is snugged in-place.
Holding the tube snugged down, in place, tighted the 1 mounting bolt.
Attach wiring which afixes to the metal loop of the Tube.

A). After you attach the intake rubber boots...start car and watch for any oil leak. Rev engine up and down, with flashlight stare at the tube's insertion point. No oil? Drive away and get a donut treat.


The hole in the Dipstick Tube Mount is ovalized.
It's oval in it's vertical axis.
Just a little.
It would impact the Tube's angle evvver so slightly...not so much depth. I understand the relationship between angle/depth with this mounting bolt's application...IN is IN based on your right hand holding the tube down and IN. Once it's seated, ya just tighten that bolt (and you're tightening it blind as you cannot see it...so you could be off my 1mm in either direction of the oval).
So the the real CHECK for if you did it right is 'A" above.

I checked my oil today, the level was MUCH more normal.
I attribute the HIGH level it WAS showing to the almost-suction-level of yanking I have to give the dipstick in order to remove it.
I sanded down the edges of the area on my dipstick where it is binding and it is better.

champaign777...ACTION ITEM: I looked at the pics of your dipstick's tip and I believe I see a fracture up high, near it's top. Please confirm.

[Jason5driver]

This post has got me thinking....

I was looking at some of my old posts on my E23. I sorely missed my E23 (1983 735i 5sp = beauty!!!) badly....This was my "Sticky" posted on bimmerboard:
http://bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/216219

You can see that back then the PCV was simply a hose from Valve Cover straight to the intake manifold, labeled #11 here:



These days, car engineers make things too complicated as you can see in the E39 CCV design, which is ridiculously complex.

[bimmerfiver]

This post has got me thinking....

What's to ponder? Older cars always had a PCV Valve stuck dang square on the Valve Cover which had one hose going straight to the intake-side to reburn the lighter, dirty air.

BMW does the same thing and how, this piece: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1250641

The only method to move past the actual CCV set-up in our cars is 1940's technology lol, a Catch Can.

Seriously, take five and read here about 1928-1960 and how US Tanks created the need in WWII for PCV:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankca...ilation_system

http://www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.gif

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikiped...cv_valve_1.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_s2xV3hDKXY...0/untitled.jpg

Our CCV System is brilliant. Lighter gases are reburned, heavier liquids drop down. A still/keg and spout powered by vacuum. It's over-engineered on the blueprint for emissions concerns..but it's under-engineered on the manufactuing end. It's Moonshine season finale this week and someone is gonna get caught; our CCV diaphragms are lame and every winter someone gonna get caught. I replaced twenty or more of these in my lifetime:

http://image.popularhotrodding.com/f..._pcv_valve.jpg

And it was always a $10.00 part and took two minutes.

[Jason5driver]

What's to ponder? Older cars always had a PCV Valve stuck dang square on the Valve Cover which had one hose going straight to the intake-side to reburn the lighter, dirty air.

BMW does the same thing and how, this piece: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1250641

The only method to move past the actual CCV set-up in our cars is 1940's technology lol, a Catch Can.

Seriously, take five and read here about 1928-1960 and how US Tanks created the need in WWII for PCV:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crankca...ilation_system

http://www.aa1car.com/library/pcv.gif

http://rpmedia.ask.com/ts?u=/wikiped...cv_valve_1.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_s2xV3hDKXY...0/untitled.jpg

Our CCV System is brilliant. Lighter gases are reburned, heavier liquids drop down. A still/keg and spout powered by vacuum. It's over-engineered on the blueprint for emissions concerns..but it's under-engineered on the manufactuing end. It's Moonshine season finale this week and someone is gonna get caught; our CCV diaphragms are lame and every winter someone gonna get caught. I replaced twenty or more of these in my lifetime:

http://image.popularhotrodding.com/f..._pcv_valve.jpg

And it was always a $10.00 part and took two minutes.

Yep, I know about the old-school maintenance, however, I was wondering if there was a way to just run a hose from the valve cover to the air distribution piece with a PCV in the middle...?
Then, just cap the drain connection into the dipstick...
In other words, just delete the CCV altogether...

And, after talking to my mechanic again this morning at his shop, he confirmed my recent suspicion...
That the cold-weather CCV IS JUNK.
The insulation jackets do nothing, in fact, they cause condensation - prevent the engine heat to heat up the hoses/CCV as easily as the standard CCV unit.

After 1 year of the cold-weather CCV on my car, I have had more problems/ yellow crud than I ever did with the standard CCV unit.

I will be removing the insulation crap from my CCV and hoses.

And, more than likely I will be replacing it with the standard CCV stuff.
I also found this neat little kit too...
http://www.ecstuning.com/ES1905407/

Thanks!
Jason

[Graham E39 528i]

Yep, I know about the old-school maintenance, however, I was wondering if there was a way to just run a hose from the valve cover to the air distribution piece with a PCV in the middle...?
Then, just cap the drain connection into the dipstick...
In other words, just delete the CCV altogether...

And, after talking to my mechanic again this morning at his shop, he confirmed my recent suspicion...
That the cold-weather CCV IS JUNK.
The insulation jackets do nothing, in fact, they cause condensation - prevent the engine heat to heat up the hoses/CCV as easily as the standard CCV unit.

After 1 year of the cold-weather CCV on my car, I have had more problems/ yellow crud than I ever did with the standard CCV unit.

I will be removing the insulation crap from my CCV and hoses.

And, more than likely I will be replacing it with the standard CCV stuff.
I also found this neat little kit too...
http://www.ecstuning.com/ES1905407/

Thanks!
Jason

I'm sorry Jason. This is freakin hilarious. HAHAHA

[Jason5driver]

I'm sorry Jason. This is freakin hilarious. HAHAHA

What is so funny?

[Doru]

What is so funny?

I was asking that myself too.....

[Jason5driver]

I was asking that myself too.....

Yes.

Anyways, when I stopped by my mechanic's shop this morning, I had brought my oil dipstick tube with the dipstick.
I wanted my mechanic to show me what exactly he did to the tube, and how...
Oil Pan Diagram - Real OEM.pdf

[Doru]

Yes.

Anyways, when I stopped by my mechanic's shop this morning, I had brought my oil dipstick tube with the dipstick.
I wanted my mechanic to show me what exactly he did to the tube, and how...
Oil Pan Diagram - Real OEM.pdf

That one is the original old design with a tube within a tube, correct?

[Jason5driver]

That one is the original old design with a tube within a tube, correct?

Yes.
The drilling was done to the old design tube.
Something for people that do not have a lot of money, and can not spend big money for miscellaneous items like the new dipstick tube design.

Also, I am not sure if you remember, but my car's dipstick had trouble being able to seat all the way down, so that the O-rings at the top would seal.
This happened right after my mechanic first did this mod to my original/older tube design.

However, today, when I visited my mechanic's shop, my mechanic took the tube I brought with me, and used a long rod-file that could be used to file the inside of the tube.
He says that sometimes when they drill the new hole, the sides/ out edges of the tube can be pushed in from the drill.
Hence, the dipstick would get stuck right where the end of the stick and the new hole was drilled.
So, my mechanic just used that rod-file, and bingo, the dipstick seats like it did before, perfectly.

So, by drilling the new hole on the opposite side of the small drain tube that connects to the CCV, and through the inner tube wall (wall between the weep holes and the large center tube hole, allows the CCV to drain it's oil into the larger diameter tube of the dipstick tube, instead of the trying to drain the oil through those tiny/skinny weeps along the sides of the dipstick tube base.

[cngzsn]

So what's the verdict? Cold weather or the standard kit is better?

Also, where does #6 in the figure lead to? I couldn't see it in the cold-weather CCV...

[Jason5driver]

So what's the verdict? Cold weather or the standard kit is better?

Also, where does #6 in the figure lead to? I couldn't see it in the cold-weather CCV...

I highly recommend on just getting the standard CCV unit, especially since you live in TN.
IMO, the cold-weather CCV is for places like Canada, or Alaska.
It is up to you which version you want.
However, I would get the new updated dipstick for the car.

#6 is a small rubber hose cap on the newer M54's.
I think it is an actual vacuum hose on the M52tu engines.

[Steve530]

So what's the verdict? Cold weather or the standard kit is better?

Also, where does #6 in the figure lead to? I couldn't see it in the cold-weather CCV...

The CCV and hoses I bought at the dealer in Knoxville was the standard version.

#6 on the diagram is a 3.5mm vacuum cap on the M54. On the M52 it is a tube that supplies vacuum to the fuel pressure regulator, I think.

[Skaklight]

Yep, I know about the old-school

The insulation jackets do nothing, in fact, they cause condensation - prevent the engine heat to heat up the hoses/CCV as easily as the standard CCV unit.

I don't buy it. These parts should see plenty of high temperatures from the hot gas/air running through them.

The insulation should hold in the heat the tubes receive, and prevent heat transfer to ambient once the car is turned off.

[cngzsn]

I highly recommend on just getting the standard CCV unit, especially since you live in TN.
IMO, the cold-weather CCV is for places like Canada, or Alaska.
It is up to you which version you want.
However, I would get the new updated dipstick for the car.

#6 is a small rubber hose cap on the newer M54's.
I think it is an actual vacuum hose on the M52tu engines.

The CCV and hoses I bought at the dealer in Knoxville was the standard version.

#6 on the diagram is a 3.5mm vacuum cap on the M54. On the M52 it is a tube that supplies vacuum to the fuel pressure regulator, I think.

Thanks guys for the replies. I still haven't decided which one is better after all that reading. Might just go with the standard version though.

Steve, I am in Knoxville, too! Wanna help me with my CCV? I'll buy the beer lol! Seriously though

[Jason5driver]

I don't buy it. These parts should see plenty of high temperatures from the hot gas/air running through them.

The insulation should hold in the heat the tubes receive, and prevent heat transfer to ambient once the car is turned off.

That was just my opinion....
Doesn't mean it is law...
Yes, I agree the gases and oil heat-up the inside of the hoses.
However, since I have installed the cold-weather CCV, I have had nothing but problems...
IMO, the standard CCV system is more optimal for areas that have moderate winters.
Plus, IMO, the hoses on the standard CCV fit better.
I would still recommend getting the new updated dipstick tube design though - which is a MUST IMO in order to prevent the system from clogging again in cold weather.

Thanks guys for the replies. I still haven't decided which one is better after all that reading. Might just go with the standard version though.

Steve, I am in Knoxville, too! Wanna help me with my CCV? I'll buy the beer lol! Seriously though

See above...

[Steve530]

Yes.

Anyways, when I stopped by my mechanic's shop this morning, I had brought my oil dipstick tube with the dipstick.
I wanted my mechanic to show me what exactly he did to the tube, and how...
Oil Pan Diagram - Real OEM.pdf

Thanks, Jason. Unfortunately, that requires a welder, so it's not something most of us can do at home. Of course, a muffler shop should be able to weld that tube easily.

[cngzsn]

Well, I bought the regular version CCV and hoses.

Unplugged the Vanos vacuum line and looked into it when the car was cold and it looked pretty clean. No signs of mayo at all. Then I blew hard into it and heard the gurgling in the sump. An indication that my CCV system might be ok.

However, I then attached a glove finger cut from a latex glove and secured it in the dipstick guide tube. Started the car and the finger inflated, which confirmed that the CCV was bad. There wasn't much of a suction when the oil cap was removed, but I don't know what the definition of "much" is here. As far as I'm concerned, the finger test is better and conclusive.