Would It Be Illegal To Remove The Sunroof From An E36 M3 For SM or BSP If......

[jmciver]

...you made it look stock afterwards?

Here is what I mean. Everyone knows that the sunroof is an option for the M3 which means you should be able to get rid of by SCCA rules. Why then couldn't you remove the sunroof cassette, replace the interior roof liner with the stock roof liner from a non-sunroof car (for proper fit), and then use some sheetmetal, of the same weight and thickness as the non-sunroof M3, and plug up the hole?

From a body work standpoint this doesn't seem too difficult or even expensive, especially if you rmove the sunroof cassette and remove/reinstall the headliner yourself, which doesn't seem that difficult.

[badmonkey]

You could remove the sunroof motor & mechanism, have the sunroof panel welded in place, repaint the roof, then install a non-sunroof headliner... don't know if it's legal, but no one may notice

[jmciver]

Originally posted by badmonkey
You could remove the sunroof motor & mechanism, have the sunroof panel welded in place, repaint the roof, then install a non-sunroof headliner... don't know if it's legal, but no one may notice

I guess that is my point, since it is an option for the car, why would it be illegal ??

[GSBMW325is]

Legally, you'd have to buy the roof section, which is available from BMW...
Do you run nationally on a regular basis? If so, you'd have to do it legally. If not, my experience says locals just don't care. The local SM crowd here is full of illegal cars, but has super-intense and close racing every event. They enjoy it and don't care if someone's stripped this car or FI'ed that car or used an import engine in another car. Its for fun.
Personally, I wouldn't do it for weight reasons, that's irrelevant unless you are the best autocrosser in the world and every other possible detail of your car is sorted/setup. If its a head room issue, well, I'd consider it (hate the sunroof in my car when autocrossing!).

[badmonkey]

SM champ this year and last has a sunroof...

[jmciver]

Originally posted by badmonkey
SM champ this year and last has a sunroof...

Good point .

[gwrichardson42]

For 2004, there is a proposed SM rule (SCCA) that allows the removal/replacement of the sunroof (See the August Fastrack).

As far as being inexpensive, I think you ought to check with some local body shops. Most of them will not touch custom sheet metal fabrication work, and the ones that do are typically expensive. It is not a simple welding of a patch panel, as the panel has compound curves. The welding is also difficult because of the thickness of the sheet metal. You can expect warpage even with extremely careful welding which will require the use of body filler to fill in the seam. I was quoted 22 hours of work to get it to the primer stage - no paint. At $90/hour for labor, I was looking at $2000 plus the cost for painting - not a cost effective update.

As far as weight savings, the entire sunroof assembly weighs about 37lb, so after adding in the patch panel you'll save about 30 lb. This is a pretty significant savings for a single change, and all the weight is up high which makes it even more valuable. And YES, reducing weight is extremely important if you want to be competitive on a National level.

It all depends if it's worth the $$$ to you.

In case your wondering who I am, I own and built the 2002/2003 Street Modified National Championship car - now if I could only learn how to drive

-Gary

[Jim O.]

Originally posted by badmonkey
SM champ this year and last has a sunroof...

And the year before that...

Jim

[NastyNate]

make sure you find a good body man for the job, when the frame twists one of the stress points of that car would be the sunroof, ie. big hole in the middle of the roof, and no support in that big hole. When the metal would be welded in that would stregnthen it up, but once the body filler is applied, that shit cracks easily. All in all it would work out good.

Nate

[badmonkey]

Oops, sorry Jim! :

Regarding the first post, I didn't mean to weld up the entire sunroof panel, rather weld tabs to the panel and to the roof structure, leaving the sunroof seal in place. Welding the entire panel would be insane. IIRC, QuickM3 took this route on his I-prepped club racer.

[John in Houston]

As it stands today, you would have to use BSP rules to replace the sunroof.

This would require you to cut the roof off, reinstall a BMW roof section, all of the required bracing and the correct headliner. Easily looking at $2000 + for a good shop to do it.

The car will need to be bolted down to a chassis jig to keep it from flexing while the roof is removed / welded back in place.

[Lance325is]

I know this thread is old but if anyone is interested I was able to remove the sunroof from my car. I can take pictures if anyone would like. Also it did save a lot of weight up high from the tray.

[TeamZ4]

actually it is legal per Sect. 13 Stock, which then carries over to both SP and SM, but you have to make sure to convert the car back to "exactly" like a non-sunroof M3 in every respect, see the opening paragraphs where it discusses option conversions

[G.T.]

Originally posted by Lance325is
I know this thread is old but if anyone is interested I was able to remove the sunroof from my car. I can take pictures if anyone would like. Also it did save a lot of weight up high from the tray.

Exactly how much weight did you remove, Austin?

[Lance325is]

I'd say somewhere between 30-40lbs. The sunroof pannel is actually thicker and stronger than the rest of the roof. The good thing is the whole project has pretty much zero cost as of right now. It will need paint but that wont be too bad.

[G.T.]

30-40 lbs? NICE!!!

[DannO]

The roof panel for the M Coupe, non-sunroof is about $500 MSRP. You should be able to find it new for $375 or so. Labor and paint would be a lot more, esp. if you found it at salvage.

[Lance325is]

I used existing parts= FREE

[magnetic1]

and 30-40 lbs at a much higher location.

[Lance325is]

The project is almost done, paint should be done sometime later on when its nicer out.

[Lance325is]

2. the inside roof needs to be wiped down and cleaned up a little.

[Jed]

Originally posted by Lance325is
The project is almost done, paint should be done sometime later on when its nicer out.

Damn Austin, you're going hard core.

Nice decal on the rear window corner!!!!

[John in Houston]

Just an FYI... this month's Sportscar has a new rule for street modified in Fast Track:

16.1.L - T-tops, targa tops, sunroofs, moon-roofs and similar roof mounted panesl may be removed / replaced with alternate panels provided that the area of interface is limited to the original perimeter of the t-top, sunroof, etc. or uses OE panel mount points, and that the contour of the replacement panel does not vary from the contour of the part being replaced by more than 1 inch in any direction. The material used to construct the alternate panel and the method used to attach it to the interface is unrestricted. Any actuation mechanism and the associated wiring, if any, may be removed.

[jmciver]

Hmmm......

Sounds to me that based on that wording, removing the sunroof cassette, replacing the lining with one from a non-sunrof car and simply tacking a roof panel in place (say a composite or carbon fiber one) is a VERY viable (and not very difficult to perform) option for an E36. Or am I being to liberal with the wording of the rule ?!?

Hell, an equally prepared E36 with a sunroof removed could actually be lighter than a non-sunroof E36.

BTW Lance, how did you keep the stock sunroof panel in place with the cassette removed?

[Lance325is]

BTW Lance, how did you keep the stock sunroof panel in place with the cassette removed?

Me and a buddy of mine welded the pannel to the roof of the car very carefully, making sure it was level with the rest of the roof.