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Thread: Turbo M3 -vs.- E46 M3

  1. #1
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    Turbo M3 -vs.- E46 M3

    Well,

    To put it nice and simple, it wasnt pretty!!!

    We ran into each other at midnight at a redlight before merging onto Florida's Turnpike. Light turns green, and since he doesnt have turbo lag to deal with, he get a 1 car lead on me. Come second, I am gaining on him fast. Third gear came along, and he was toast. The guy starts bitching and complaining about all types of driver errors and any other excuse he could come up with. So we start talking and I find out he is heading the same way I am.

    We get on the highway, and I am thinking to myself, "this guy doesn't know what he has gotten himself into." we merge onto the lonely highway after the toll and we hit it in 3rd gear. To say the very least the car seemed like it wasn't even trying to race eventhough I could hear that raspy E46 M motor.

    So we continue on the highway, just after taking it up to 145mph and he is still heading my way. He happens to be going to the same restaurant I was going to.

    At the parking lot, he starts asking me what I have in my car, so on and so on, and I could tell this guy was new to the BMW community, I just handed him a business card to Active Autowerke that I had in my wallet and told him, "Sell your car and buy yourself an E36 and take it over to them, you wont be disappointed, or you can wait to see what they have up their sleeve for your car. Your car is a great car, but it is hard to compare it to a highly modified E36 M." We shook each other's hands and went to our own dinner party.

    All in all, the E46 looks great (a little too bulky for my tastes) and is a good performer (I was very close to trading my car in when it was SC'ed for one, but after a test drive, I left with wanting more power, which led me to AA). I would definitely like to see what they can squeeze out of that car, whether it be NA or with Forced Induction.
    Last edited by ///MCubed; 09-09-2001 at 01:30 PM.

  2. #2
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    A PRETTY NICE STORY. SHOULDN'T BE RACING ON THE HIGHWAY THOUGH (ESPECIALLY IN FLORIDA), BE CAREFULL, DON'T PUT OTHERS AT RISK
    Ordered: '14 BMW M4
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  3. #3
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    Yeah.....

    I know not to race when other people are on the road. The only people that should have the risk of dying are the people involved in the race, and that is what took place when I made this kill.

    Personally, I like my car for cruising around and to get my adrenalin rush, I don't really like racing unless it is "completely safe" (as if that exists).

  4. #4
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    What color was it? Red?
    Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by hundreds of engineers that get paid thousands of dollars for something you bought at Pep Boys because your buddy who doesn't have a job told you it was 'better'?!?

  5. #5
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  6. #6
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    hey ///MCUBED

    what kind of itmes are you running? witht he combination of your car being faster, and that guy not knowing how to drive his cr that well- sounds like you handed him his a$$. great story.you must be in the 12's. what do the new ///M's run, 13's?
    '00 GMC Z71
    going to phat it out!

  7. #7
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    Dont know what times I am running. The only time I know I am faster than is my friends 13.5 sec. Saleen that I beat by a lot.

    I ran a ZO6 on the highway, so I cant really tell about the time from that since it wasnt from a dead stop.

    If I were to guess, I would say that the low 12's like you said is where I am at (as far as the car's capabilities are, I have never been on a drag strip, so I dont know where my reaction times stand).

  8. #8
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    You know I WOULD agree with you about getting the E36 over E46, but im gonna have to disagree with you on that one. If you read the new European car you would see that the E46 engien is actually very detuned. Nowack got 404HP naturally aspirated on the new E46 M3 engine (that 135HP per liter!)!! and others have easily gotten up to 370-380 with fairly simple mods. I wonder what a turbo or S/C would do. Appearantly BMW knows something that we dont and thats why they can get those kind of numbers. I have a feeling that aftermarket products are gonna be huge for the E46. But i still love E36 (afterall i have a 95M3 and love every second of it) but the new E46 is an amazing car, just my 2 cents

  9. #9
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    If you look at a dyno chart of a E46 to E36, the both make about the same power until about 6000 rpm... but the E46 revs to 8000rpm and has 3.64 gearing as opposed to the E36's gearing. That's why it's faster.
    Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by hundreds of engineers that get paid thousands of dollars for something you bought at Pep Boys because your buddy who doesn't have a job told you it was 'better'?!?

  10. #10
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    MCubed good run

    It would be weird if you could not pull away easily after 2nd gear as you should be building full bosst. You have lots more torque and hp so you should walk away from 3rd and up.

    I drove a 01 M5 on Thursday a friend brought it over. Pulled 1st and 2nd to 7000rpm and his comment was fast car.. I said not bad very Smooth and quiet also very refined. It's definately more refined than a E36 M3 motor. I thought it would have been faster maybe I was expecting too much or use to the power and response form my car. maybe it's because the car is over 700lbs more heavy. I said I will let you drive my car when we get back to my office.

    After he got in he rev 2nd and at 4200 rpm the tach jumped he shifted at 5500rpm and that was only 7lbs of boost I said the car does not make max power till 6800rpm and you are not getting full boost yet. His comment was holy you have lots of power here where do you use it. After driving back to the office another friend at my office came and ask him so which car is faster he replyed the M3. In 2 weeks he gets the E46 M3 to test drive so he will bring it over to my office I'm just curious how it drives I know it can not copmare as it only has 320hp and 259ft/lbs. The first time I dyno my car with the Stage 1 turbo and Stage 2 intercooler I got 308ft/lbs and 325hp at the wheels at 8 lbs. Now I'm running the Stage 2 turbo and stock 10.5:1 compression at 10lbs I'm going to dyno the car again as soon as I do the exhaust hopefull in about a month. If I don't get at least 365hp at the wheels I would be disappointed.

    Mark
    AA Stage 1 Gen III, BMP head gasket, Bored Throttle Body, 3.0"DnPipe & Custom exhaust with AA Gen 2, Aquamist 1s water/methanol injection,
    Last dynojet Aug 02 248c SAE 369whp/354ft-lbs at 10.5psi, 1/4mile 12.6@116mph
    New Sept 02 Head work and exhaust porting, April 04:UUC Pulleys, Turbo to intercooler pipe 2.5" Aug 04 3.5"HFM,11.5psi

  11. #11
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    I should make it clear that this wasnt at full boost.

  12. #12
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    You turbo guys are driving me crazy!!! M3TurboCa, you had said in another thread that a local mechanic did the install and it wasn't really difficult. How many miles do you have on the turbo and has it needed to be serviced at all since you got it?
    Rel
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  13. #13
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    About 24,000 Miles

    Rel44 M3

    I drive my car from March to Dec or the first snow fall then I park the car. I got the turbo installed in June 99 and so far had no problems with the turbo or motor. I drive the car every day to work. It took my mechanic about 2 days to install the kit the instructions that came with it is pretty good and all the parts that you need was included.(No missing screws or brackets). He does not specialize in BMW but he is very good mechanic. He mainly does Honda and Mazda.

    The only service that I do is change the oil and filter every 5000 miles and I use Mobil 1 10W30. I tried the 15W50 and you can definately feel it put a small drag on the engine I drained it out after 500 miles and dumped the oil and filter. I also have a turbo timer that idles the car down and that is important if you want the turbo to last long. My older 86VW running 17lbs I hAD 130,000 MILES on the turbo and over 160,000 Miles on the motor and it was still good. I never rebuild or even touch the motor or turbo either. I alwayd used Mobil 1 10W30 in my cars.

    The Active kits are pretty safe if you stay within the recommended boost limits. You only run into problems when you try to push more from it and that what you have to be in control and resist turning up the boost. I used to run12lbs during the fall and winter months and the car hauls but I know with that level of boost the motor would be at risk as I'm still running the stock compression 10.5:1. I only use Sunoco Ultra 94 octane gas and when the temp is cooler below 70' it reduces the octane requirement.

    Mark
    AA Stage 1 Gen III, BMP head gasket, Bored Throttle Body, 3.0"DnPipe & Custom exhaust with AA Gen 2, Aquamist 1s water/methanol injection,
    Last dynojet Aug 02 248c SAE 369whp/354ft-lbs at 10.5psi, 1/4mile 12.6@116mph
    New Sept 02 Head work and exhaust porting, April 04:UUC Pulleys, Turbo to intercooler pipe 2.5" Aug 04 3.5"HFM,11.5psi

  14. #14
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    Thanks for the info, M3TurboCa. So the turbo kit doesn't include a turbo timer? Which one do you have?
    Rel
    1999 Titanium Silver ///M3 (SOLD)
    Conforti Intake, Shark Injector, AA Gen 3 Exhaust, AA Track Pipe, Koni SAs, H&R OE Sports, TC Kline RSMs, X-Brace, UUC TMEs, ZKWs w/HID, DDE Gen IV, Clears, NIKEN pedals, Pioneer DEH-P7000, Valentine One

    2003 Tarmac Black Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII
    Borla cat-back, AEM SRI, GReddy TT, Sony CDX-CA810X

    2005 Lemans Blue Chevrolet Z51 Corvette

  15. #15
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    here's all the info...and a timer comes with it.

    Originally posted by Rel44 M3
    Thanks for the info, M3TurboCa. So the turbo kit doesn't include a turbo timer? Which one do you have?
    i was actually at this link yesterday drooling. this should answer all of your questions...
    Siyé
    http://www.activeautowerke.com/turbo/OBD2-E36Turbo.asp
    '00 GMC Z71
    going to phat it out!

  16. #16
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    Thanks, Kleen Kut, haven't been to the site in a while.
    Rel
    1999 Titanium Silver ///M3 (SOLD)
    Conforti Intake, Shark Injector, AA Gen 3 Exhaust, AA Track Pipe, Koni SAs, H&R OE Sports, TC Kline RSMs, X-Brace, UUC TMEs, ZKWs w/HID, DDE Gen IV, Clears, NIKEN pedals, Pioneer DEH-P7000, Valentine One

    2003 Tarmac Black Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution VIII
    Borla cat-back, AEM SRI, GReddy TT, Sony CDX-CA810X

    2005 Lemans Blue Chevrolet Z51 Corvette

  17. #17
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    Greddy

    Rel44 M3

    I bought the Greddy turbo timer and the Profec B boost controller separately 2 years ago.

    For the price the Greddy's are not bad the turbo timer you have 4 presets 2 you can preset for a specific amount of time and the other 2 you preset a minimum time and then from there it will add seconds everytime you rev above 3000rpm. One adds a min amount of time and the other adds more time.
    The boost Profec B boost controller is not bad you have 2 variable settings one for low and high and you can adjust the response of the wastegate if you want it to open quickly or slowly. I set mine for almost max response that it will build boost fast and then suddenly open with that setting it will jump to 11lbs and then drop back down to 10lbs when it fully open.

    Mark
    AA Stage 1 Gen III, BMP head gasket, Bored Throttle Body, 3.0"DnPipe & Custom exhaust with AA Gen 2, Aquamist 1s water/methanol injection,
    Last dynojet Aug 02 248c SAE 369whp/354ft-lbs at 10.5psi, 1/4mile 12.6@116mph
    New Sept 02 Head work and exhaust porting, April 04:UUC Pulleys, Turbo to intercooler pipe 2.5" Aug 04 3.5"HFM,11.5psi

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by SupaBimma
    You know I WOULD agree with you about getting the E36 over E46, but im gonna have to disagree with you on that one. If you read the new European car you would see that the E46 engien is actually very detuned. Nowack got 404HP naturally aspirated on the new E46 M3 engine (that 135HP per liter!)!! and others have easily gotten up to 370-380 with fairly simple mods. I wonder what a turbo or S/C would do. Appearantly BMW knows something that we dont and thats why they can get those kind of numbers. I have a feeling that aftermarket products are gonna be huge for the E46. But i still love E36 (afterall i have a 95M3 and love every second of it) but the new E46 is an amazing car, just my 2 cents
    If you were going to turbo charge a E46 M3 you would only be able to run maybe 4 pounds of boost unless you have some lower compression head gastkets made. Also, the E46 engine is quite tuned. Just cause Nowack got 404 HP out of it doesnt mean its been "detuned." It takes lots of time and money to get a 3.2I 6 over the 400 mark. Blueprinting and internal components I am sure are what contributed to 404HP. PTG produces 444HP out of the M52 Euro engine (older Euro engine) over a long period of time. I remember last year they were only pushing 420.

    As for products for the E46. Yes, you are going ot see SC and TCs. Lots more work will be needed though. If you boys really want to make that E46 M3 fast, I would say a lightweight FLY and a poor mans SC should so the trick. Hell, with the adjustible cams on the E46 you could prob. tune the sucker to over 350. E46 is a great car, just doenst have the potential as an E36.

  19. #19
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    "E46 is a great car, just doenst have the potential as an E36"

    But wait, that's what everyone said 8 years ago when the OBDII M3s came out....

  20. #20
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    Um I guess you didn't realize how dead this thread is. Look at the date.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeeM3
    Um I guess you didn't realize how dead this thread is. Look at the date.

    So people get mad about pointless threads and reposts. Then they get mad about posting on an old thread. Hmm..

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar
    If you look at a dyno chart of a E46 to E36, the both make about the same power until about 6000 rpm... but the E46 revs to 8000rpm and has 3.64 gearing as opposed to the E36's gearing. That's why it's faster.
    ya i had to check the date after reading this post. i dont think kevlar would be saying the same thing now.

  23. #23
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    Funny...

    Quote Originally Posted by ///MCubed
    Well,
    since he doesnt have turbo lag to deal with, he get a 1 car lead on me. .
    Picking on no-lag cars shame on you

  24. #24
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    It is nice to see that some people still respect Active and have not hopped on the ICS bandwagon! Stay OG!

    Good kill!

  25. #25
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    What's ICS?


    BMW Cigar And Gun Club Member #7

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