PSA: M60 cars can use E36 M3 radiators

[acepilot]

I have just ran into a similar problem where I found leakage at the neck of the radiator. Turns out to be a loose hose, or a hose working itself loose but a little tightening seems to have fixed it. But in the process, I see that the upper radiator hose is alittle tight in its connection to the water pump housing.

I have a theory why we see so many cracked radiator necks. Could it be that when the engine is running and moving along it's axis of rotation, that it pulls on the neck of the radiator, thereby weakening the neck of the radiator, cracking and breaking it? Should the hose have a little more "play" in it (basically a slightly longer hose), to give and take a few mm here and there? I'm going to pull the connection from the water pump out a little more to see if I can get some slack into the upper hose. Maybe my motor mounts are loose (I don't think so). My stock (3rd one) Behr radiator is also appropriately loose on the mount just like the original one.

Ace

[eightynine535]

if your engine is moving enough to pull on the hose so that it breaks the radiator neck, it means your engine mounts are shot.

[jimoreno]

I just finished doing this to my son's car and everything went without a hitch. I will order the correct euro hose (406) and the fan shroud and install them later for piece of mind. I also replaced the thermostat the thermostat housing cover with an aluminum version.

Update: For those of you doing this and wanting to make it a true "bolt-on", the 550-mm fan shroud part number is 17111723657. This together with the 406 hose will make your life a lot easier!

[jimoreno]

UPDATE: The lower hose needed (ending in 406) is NLA from BMW (even Germany) so there is no way to get a replacement unless there is an aftermarket one available in Europe that someone can get shipped here. I guess we will need to live with a "mended" hose!

[moroza]

Oh well.

I've had that contraption for 22.5k miles and counting. Everything from the Canadian arctic through the southwest desert. You have nothing to worry about.

[JantzenRX8]

Can someone please just verify something for me real quick?

Which parts are necessary and readily available?

17111709332 (lower mount)
17111709333 (lower mount)
17111712660 (upper mount)
17111723657 (shroud)

I know the hose is special order but i'm assuming i can fab up something like the OP did.

Is the following DIY to fit the stock shroud on the mishimoto rad? i.e. - make 17111723657 unnecessary?
http://www.bimmerzone.com/images/Min...dification.pdf

Basically im trying to figure out if i can order everything and have it installed by next Friday. Tall order i know. But i would like to do it if possible.

[jimoreno]

The hose is NLA. I got the 407 hose cut it and used a hose mending kit to keep it together. I was trying to get all plastic out of the system but the hose mending kit is plastic but honestly I haven't looked for a metal one. It has been several months and there has been no issues with the car.
I haven't installed the shroud yet so I'm not sure about any modifications needed.

[JantzenRX8]

Whats the climate like where you live?

I'm in Oklahoma and it's been over 100 for the past week or so.

Could i get away with no shroud for a while? What if i converted to an electric fan(i realize clutch fans probably move more air but i'm just curious)?

Is there any way to get the mounting brackets without getting them from overseas?

Edit: ordered the brackets and 407 hose from BMW. They said they would be here thursday.

[jimoreno]

I live in NJ but the past month and a half weather was in the high 90's (over 100 with the heat factor) and the car didn't had any issue. I'm ordering the shroud now to be on the safe side.

[JantzenRX8]

OK cool.

I've ordered everything and it should all be here on or before Friday. Do you still use the stock upper rad hose? I ordered a new one but i got to thinking whether or not it will fit.

I'm also replacing the thermostat housing with a alloy one and using an 85 degree thermostat just for good measure.

[moroza]

I haven't had a shroud on this car since day one. It's never overheated when the aux fan works, but its fuse blows about every three months; not sure if that's related.

[357]

I think I'm going to have to do this mod as part of my swap to an all-electric fan setup (damn mechanical fan is the only thing you can hear on my car at low speed). Has anybody tried using an M50 525i lower radiator hose? They use a 520mm-core radiator, but its probably mounted slightly differently due to the expansion tank on one side. I wonder if it would fit, or perhaps allow modification of one end of the hose for fitment rather than the middle. They're only $14 and are readily available, so I may have to give this a shot. I'll report back if I find anything interesting.

[JantzenRX8]

I finished this project up today. It was a bit of a fiasco since the car needed to be operational by today and i spent half the morning waiting for Fedex to arrive with my parts. But all in all this was a surprisingly painless procedure.

When i got in there i found that my thermostat was physically broken. I'm not sure how well it was functioning in condition it was in but i'm glad i decided to buy the alloy housing and 85 degree thermostat and just take care of it while i was in there. It was actually a big PITA to remove and re-install. Probably the hardest part of the install. But i probably could have disassembled more to make it easier on me -- too stubborn i guess.

The radiator swap was cake. I even had to fabricate my own passenger side bracket because BMW mis-informed me when i would get the parts. It's not pretty, but solid.

I would recommend this swap to anyone. I was driving around, giving it hell and it was 106 degrees today. The temp gauge was always a tick below center. Previously my car would start to overheat if i sat with it running for 10 mins plus. I have no problem with that any longer.

I didn't even attempt to make the shroud work. I was getting low on time and the car seemed to have no trouble staying cool without it. I'll probably get a shroud and e-fan shortly but i'm not worried about it for the time being.

Good upgrade! Thanks for all the info!

[eightynine535]

I finished this project up today. It was a bit of a fiasco since the car needed to be operational by today and i spent half the morning waiting for Fedex to arrive with my parts. But all in all this was a surprisingly painless procedure.

When i got in there i found that my thermostat was physically broken. I'm not sure how well it was functioning in condition it was in but i'm glad i decided to buy the alloy housing and 85 degree thermostat and just take care of it while i was in there. It was actually a big PITA to remove and re-install. Probably the hardest part of the install. But i probably could have disassembled more to make it easier on me -- too stubborn i guess.

The radiator swap was cake. I even had to fabricate my own passenger side bracket because BMW mis-informed me when i would get the parts. It's not pretty, but solid.

I would recommend this swap to anyone. I was driving around, giving it hell and it was 106 degrees today. The temp gauge was always a tick below center. Previously my car would start to overheat if i sat with it running for 10 mins plus. I have no problem with that any longer.

I didn't even attempt to make the shroud work. I was getting low on time and the car seemed to have no trouble staying cool without it. I'll probably get a shroud and e-fan shortly but i'm not worried about it for the time being.

Good upgrade! Thanks for all the info!

Pics?

[JantzenRX8]

Unfortunately no. I was in a time crunch. The car is somewhere in Colorado now. Fiance says the car is running great!

[jimoreno]

Just as an update we drove from Williamsburg, VA to NJ in the heat wave and the car still has no shroud yet the needle never went past the middle point. This is an excellent repair/upgrade which would be perfect if we ever find the proper lower hose. Anyone in Europe cares to check the part number or an aftermarket replacement?

[JantzenRX8]

An update on my experiences.

4500 mile trip from OK to WA to OK without a single problem. The needle was always a tick under center. Ambient temps ranged from 70-107 and the needle never budged. I also notice that the car doesn't overheat when it sits at idle anymore. I'm guessing that might have had something to do with my damaged thermostat?? It can sit at idle all day in 100 degree heat without a problem now.

I'm still not running a shroud and still have the ghetto-fabbed mount and mended 407 hose and everything is rock solid.

Super pleased with the results so far.

[jimoreno]

Ok, I finally received the shroud and installed it. Here are some pics (poor quality, cellphone) of the complete installation with all new pieces with the exception of the 406 hose.

[IMG][/IMG]

[AHenry014]

so have we determined a substitute for the no longer available 406 hose?

[eddycooper]

so have we determined a substitute for the no longer available 406 hose?

Has anyone other than me actually tried to buy this thing from overseas? From my searching, it just seemed that North American dealers couldn't order it for some reason.

I bought my 406 hose from www.bmminiparts.com (and that was only a few months ago) but www.schmiedmann.com shows it on their website as well. Try them before giving up - I'd be surprised if they were actually NLA because they were used on both e34s and e32s. Obviously shipping isn't cheap from Europe but you're still saving a stack of money over buying the Zionsville radiator.

Eddy

[JantzenRX8]

I dont believe so. I've been trying but haven't came up with anything. My hose mend failed on me the other day and left me stranded. It was plastic and apparently horrible quality(O'Reilly's hose mend kit). I really want a hose that fits properly so i can stop worrying about it.

edit: wow, ask and you shall receive... thanks eddy

[AHenry014]

i have the m60 tube morozo used so i may just do that. If anything comes of being able to get the hose from schmiedmann, post up.

[JantzenRX8]

I emailed schmiedmann last night. Hopefully they come back with good news.

[jimoreno]

If they do have it we should order several in one shot. I'm definitely in for one as my son doesn't have much mechanical skills and I'm 1,600 miles away (with an ocean in between!). Just trying to be proactive since this hose would be the last part to complete it properly.

Edit: checked on Schmiedmann's site and shows as back ordered but "available in 7 days". Let's see what they say JantzenRX8!

[eddycooper]

FYI, when I used the "Price Finder" at www.bmminiparts.com, I had a reply within a day or two including shipping costs.

If they're available, someone in the US should buy like 10 of them in one shot and sell them to reduce the shipping costs.

Eddy