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Thread: PSA: M60 cars can use E36 M3 radiators

  1. #151
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    I was able to install the Moshimoto in my M60 E34 using the stock lower hose.
    I cut about 5/8" from each end thus, keeping it kink free.







  2. #152
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    moroza is offline MORΩN ΛABIA BMW CCA Member
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  3. #153
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    Ha. Saw that too...
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  4. #154
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by moroza View Post
    ..So why should you care?If you need an M60 radiator, which you pretty much do every 3-5 years or so,
    Is this really true?

    But great writeup btw an all aluminium radiator at half the price is a nice touch.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by flying525 View Post
    Is this really true?

    But great writeup btw an all aluminium radiator at half the price is a nice touch.
    I wouldnt put a straight up time life span on the part due to the factors that cause failure, but the plastic end tanks of the factory and replacement radiators tends to get more and more brittle with heat cycling. Eventually it fails.
    -Alex

  7. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by AHenry014 View Post
    I wouldnt put a straight up time life span on the part due to the factors that cause failure, but the plastic end tanks of the factory and replacement radiators tends to get more and more brittle with heat cycling. Eventually it fails.
    Yeah but you can buy new stock radiators with lifetime warranties. That means "eventually" is a very long way away probably. If you're changing radiators every 5 years something is wrong. The radiator in my daughter's car (formally mine) is about 15 years and 180k old. I pressure test it once every year and its been all good and I have had overheats a few times over my ownership. Its a 525 but I bet the 540 rad is built just as well.

  8. #158
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    ^That is absolutely the exception, not the norm, and that is flat out bad advice on an M50 or M60 car, and most BMWs in general. A few overheats? Most of us have been on the wrong side of an overheat and replacing the radiator is pretty cheap insurance compared to an engine/head gasket. My old '89 Accord overheated all summer every summer with no ill effects, it just doesn't work that way with these inline sixes and aluminum V8s.

    5 years/80k miles is a pretty standard BMW radiator replacement interval (most of the cooling system, for that matter), an aluminum rad will greatly extend that life.

    I can count on one finger the number of people who have successfully placed a BMW radiator warranty claim, and they said it was enough work not to make it worth it in the end.
    - Brent
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    Quote Originally Posted by danespann View Post
    Every E34 needs the same things in the end.

  9. #159
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    Hi Brent,

    I doubt it is the exception. If the coolant is changed on scheduled, and the cooling system is backflushed, and oem coolant is used, I believe the radiator is built to last. As I said, I pressure test my radiator once a year. Once a year, I invert a clean dry shot glass over the hot radiator's bleed screw and check back after ten minutes to see if there's steam coating the inside of the shot glass.

    And replacing the radiator mandatorily after an overheat even if that's not radiator related, is not what I would call good advice.

    Surprising to hear that an accord's engine is built better than a bmw, but I can only share my experience. The car can take a few overheats without falling apart. But each time you overheat, its like playing russian roulette. I just don't think the odds of catastrophe are as low as 1 in 6.

    I think 150k is a fine change interval, but look Brent. Its a $40k car originally. The new oem radiator is like $200, new coolant is $20, new cap and screw is like another $20, and a flush and replacing the radiator takes under one hour. Once every 5 years ? Really not a big deal. I'm all for preventative maintenance. I just stretch my intervals. I do understand that no one buys an old bmw hoping to save money.

    And by warranty claims I was talking about the regular retailers like fcpeuro and rockauto. It is inconvenient naturally when dealing with them but not unreasonably so imho. Tks.

  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by flying525 View Post
    Once a year, I invert a clean dry shot glass over the hot radiator's bleed screw and check back after ten minutes to see if there's steam coating the inside of the shot glass.
    Im having trouble understanding what you think this proves. The bleed screw, once tightened, seals that port in the radiator. It is only intended for use after coolant has been drained and you are bleeding the radiator. Once that port is sealed, the radiator vents to the top of the expansion tank. The bleed screw is not the only failure point in the system of course.

    I think we can agree that an aluminum radiator is more robust due to the lack of plastic. Disregarding the warranty factor at all, the price between the two tend to be very similar depending on the chosen radiator. When it comes to this particular mishimoto radiator, they commonly sell for $250. I am happy to hear that your radiator has lasted so long, but im trying to comprehend where the disconnect is here and why someone would argue for a potentially "inferior" design.
    -Alex

  11. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by flying525 View Post
    And by warranty claims I was talking about the regular retailers like fcpeuro
    I thought our warranty process was pretty hassle free. Did you have a negative experience when warrantying a radiator through us? I'd like to know so it can be improved.
    Lifetime Replacement Guarantee, Free Shipping on $49+, and Hassle-Free Returns.
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  12. #162
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    I just don't want anyone reading this or any other thread to expect 180k miles out of their E34's stock radiator.

    Quote Originally Posted by FCPEuro View Post
    I thought our warranty process was pretty hassle free. Did you have a negative experience when warrantying a radiator through us? I'd like to know so it can be improved.
    I don't know about that guy; I didn't mention FCP in a negative light or otherwise. But the frustration I've seen others go through when trying to warranty was almost always caused by making a claim with the manufacturer (Lemforder, Behr, etc), not the retailer (I buy from you guys all the time )
    - Brent
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    Quote Originally Posted by danespann View Post
    Every E34 needs the same things in the end.

  13. #163
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    FWIW Ive been through mishimoto's radiator warranty and its been hassle free!
    -Alex

  14. #164
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    moroza is offline MORΩN ΛABIA BMW CCA Member
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    I've been through Mishimoto's warranty process twice and it's been a hassle both times, but the second time was due to deer damage, and they did give me a new rad, so the extent of my complaints is limited and I still recommend them overall. But it was like pulling teeth, while listening to a nasally PA loudspeaker proclaiming the glories of the Dentists' Revolution.

    Aluminum radiators can fail too; my first Mishi started leaking from the core/tank seam. However, three important things:

    1. Metal does not degrade with time or heat cycles (not anywhere near coolant temps, anyway). Plastic does.
    2. When a metal radiator fails, it typically starts leaking slowly. Plastic radiators will tend to fail catastrophically, like hose bungs just snapping off.
    3. When it's the apocalypse, or there's no warranty, or you're on a roadtrip through BFE, a metal radiator can be repaired. A plastic radiator cannot. And if you mention Stopleak...

    And a fourth: there is NO, ZERO, NADA, KEIN benefit to a plastic radiator, to the end-user. Durability, longevity, thermal conductivity... nothing. The only benefit is that it's cheaper for the manufacturer.

    "Overheating" is a matter of degree (no pun intended). Running up to the 3/4 mark on your gauge is one thing. Pegging the gauge, blowing the tank cap, and seeing "Coolant temp" on your CC display is another.
    Last edited by moroza; 06-09-2017 at 06:03 PM.

  15. #165
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    PSA: M60 cars can use E36 M3 radiators

    I doubt he was trying to say that an all metal radiator isn't better than stock. I think he was just trying to correct a misconception that an oem radiator only lasts 80k or just 5 years when it lasts much longer. Its important to determine precise facts even when your overall judgment )preventative maintenance is good, aluminium rads are better than oem) remains unchanged.

    And Henry, the shot glass thing is just to check of the o ring around the bleed screw has ruptured or not. The o ring and the bleed screw rupture easily when overtightened, and they can be far more easily overtightened than other stuff on the car.

    And as for fcp euro, his comment appears to be in direct contrast to the Bleedblue's earlier statements that its a real pain to get warranty replacements for radiators. IOW, he's trying to say that with companies like FCP euro warranty processing isn't perfect but definitely ok enough to rely on in practice. That's the context. So its not a criticism I think.


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    Last edited by snow663; 06-09-2017 at 06:44 PM.

  16. #166
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    PSA: M60 cars can use E36 M3 radiators

    Edit: Late to party…


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    Last edited by bluptgm3; 04-24-2019 at 02:20 AM.

  17. #167
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    PSA: M60 cars can use E36 M3 radiators

    Finally did mine yesterday with help of a friend. Former radiator was blocked so had to drain from hoses(so much fun, really, honestly)

    Did some drilling for the auto trans cooler & modifications of the stock fan shroud but everything went fine!

    I wana thank you for this tutorial! Helped me out major!




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    Last edited by savv213; 10-29-2020 at 09:02 AM.

  18. #168
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    Picked up this bad boy on Ebay. C&R is selling a bunch of stuff for way off retail. Got this one for $300
    https://www.rpmotorsports.com.au/pro...31234228781171

    IMG_20200604_180622.jpg

  19. #169
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    moroza is offline MORΩN ΛABIA BMW CCA Member
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    Any idea where it's made? I'm trying hard to avoid mainland Chinese parts (Taiwan's fine). Numerous detailed and consistent reports of prison labor, some specifically tied to auto parts suppliers, aren't something I can un-read.

  20. #170
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    Aussie land. Probably by roos.

  21. #171
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    This is the bay seller. didnt see any more of these on there but if someone has a project car or two

    https://www.ebay.com/usr/rac_7164

  22. #172
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    Bumping with an update: CSF makes E36 radiators ($255 on FCP with a lifetime warranty, at this time of writing) in Indonesia. Mine just arrived. They obviously spent less money on the packaging than Mishimoto - it's solid and secure, but not glossy and pretty - and the piece looks reasonably high quality to my eyes.

  23. #173
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    I actually put a CSF E36 radiatior in my 540iT a few years back. I believe it is still kicking without issue, many thousands of miles later. Thanks to this thread for the initial write-up!
    - Brent
    www.angry-ass.com

    Quote Originally Posted by danespann View Post
    Every E34 needs the same things in the end.

  24. #174
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    moroza is offline MORΩN ΛABIA BMW CCA Member
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    I finally got around to overhauling the cooling system in my 525iT, and solved the expansion tank problem with almost all factory parts. Nothing was leaking, but of unknown age and with a loose waterpump bearing.

    * CSF 3054 radiator, Indonesia.
    * BMW 17111723520, 17111723031, and miscellaneous related bits of the E36 323/325/328 expansion tank and shroud setup including the main lower overflow and the upper bleeder hoses, Germany if original.
    * ICT Billet AN627-12A 3/4" aluminum hose coupler, Kansas.
    * Hepu P472 water pump with stamped steel impeller, Germany.
    * BMW 11531712043 92C thermostat, Germany.
    * BMW 17111709332 port radiator mounting bracket, presumably Germany.
    * Dayco C71663 (USA) with a few cm trimmed from the straight section. The OE part is 11531740832, but unlike the Dayco it's necked down in the middle, and cannot be trimmed.
    * I deleted my auxiliary waterpump because it was a bit noisy, I previously had one explode without warning, and experience shows it's hardly necessary. Canadian and possibly some other 525i didn't come with an aux pump, and used bypass hose 64211391387, so I bought one (Rein CHH0105R, Turkey) and only later discovered the block-to-aux-pump hose 64211384746 fits the heatervalve directly like it was made for it; the 387 hose is completely unnecessary.
    * Genuine BMW antifreeze and distilled water, following two (or as many as needed) flushes with distilled water. My photos were taken during one of the flushes, hence no coolant color in the tank.

    This particular setup cannot use the mechanical fan, because the shroud is not laterally centered over the waterpump. However, its lateral position is mostly determined by the upper and lower radiator hoses, and the mounting cups, all of which have at least two or three differently-sized and identically-fitting variants. I'm sure there's a combination that does center the fan. In any case, I'll be using a Volvo/Taurus fan that's currently mounted in a stock M50 fan shroud.

    This was almost entirely plug-n-play. The exceptions:
    1. Main overflow hoses cut to meet each other, joined by the coupler.
    2. Upper radiator hose needed to be ~25mm longer.
    3. Small section of air baffle in front of the radiator needed to be trimmed to clear the port radiator clip.
    4. The wiring connector for the level sensor is different and would need to be spliced. I didn't bother as I deleted Check Control a while ago.

    20210618_174305.jpg




    Last edited by moroza; 06-18-2021 at 08:47 PM.

  25. #175
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    Bumping this thread up as I am currently doing this mod. Mishimoto radiators are now $300 and change from FCP and the lower radiator hose (the 406) is now about $31 + $35 shipping from ML performance, located in England. I don't see how anyone can
    avoid a bend in the original lower hose if they trimmed both ends, which I did try. The 407 hose is about 3" too long. I also can not see how cutting 15mm on both sides of 407 hose is going to work (which I also purchased). The fan shroud is about $50-60. All together, this mod
    is getting very expensive. I'd say about $450. I'm too deep into it now but not sure if its worth it, in today's money. Mishimoto also makes a thicker radiator which is even more expensive. Seriously should have tried some of the ebay aluminum radiator with the same dimension as
    the original one for less than $200. Just posting this up, in case anyone is thinking about doing it.

    BTW dumb question, but can we drive around with a slightly bent radiator hose? I'm waiting on my lower radiator hose from europe and the temp has been pretty stable.

    Ace

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