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Thread: BMW Compact Rally Car Build

  1. #101
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    r6, D. 1200w/13b
    very nice. its nice to see a detailed build for a rally car.

    Honda CL350- currently torn down to the frame awaiting blasting and welding
    R6- it's good stuff
    Wheelie for Safety!

  2. #102
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Martinez, CA
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    My Cars
    s50'd ti + ti + e30
    for mor diff info, e30 318 convertables have a 4.27 ratio

  3. #103
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    Oct 2009
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    2005 Mitsu Evo
    Quote Originally Posted by nineball12 View Post
    for mor diff info, e30 318 convertables have a 4.27 ratio
    Yep, but those are the small case diffs. I've actually got an open 4.44 that came in my Ti, but from what most are saying, the small case diff is just a ticking timebomb when running a 6cyl M3 motor.

    I'm 95% sure I'll be moving forward with the toyota rear-end conversion...I just can't stomach $2,000 diff builds using the BMW stuff, closer to $3,000 if I wanted something in the high 4.xx or low 5.xx range. Part of building a rally car is identifying places where you can improve upon what the manufacturers give you to start with. Since the build isn't a factory effort, if I can identify places for cost savings, I'm going to explore them.

    Dave
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  4. #104
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    Sep 2003
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    Wgtn, NZ
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    '85 twin turbo E30 323i
    Hey Dave,

    I run a supra *A70 diff in my E30 for those exact same reasons.

    Over here (NZ) I've picked up 3 supra LSD's for the price of one stock BMW LSD.

    Only thing to note, with the G-series IRS cases, they can not fit higher than the 4.55 crown wheel/pinnion (came in the Auto GA70's). The higher ratio's from Hilux's, Hiace's, etc... (what ever the US versions were) do not fit the IRS case, IIRC it is the crown wheel offset & larger pinnion.

  5. #105
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    May 2004
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    DEИVEЯ, CO.
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    95 M3 6.0 Litre
    Dave i do not know if you saw this site or not but i thought to share.

    http://www.rallyroad.net/content/erics-330ti-rally-car

    thought it will give you some motivation.

  6. #106
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    2005 Mitsu Evo
    Quote Originally Posted by boriksh View Post
    http://www.rallyroad.net/content/erics-330ti-rally-car

    thought it will give you some motivation.
    Yep, that's actually the car where the Compomotive wheels I sourced came from. Pics are always good motivators!

    I haven't forgotten about the build, but my hillclimb season starts in two weeks, so the Evo is getting my full attention now - its up at Built-by-Bones/SCR getting some fab work done to increase its ability to shed heat...because turning down the boost is never the right option.

    The cage work on the BMW is ongoing, and final seat fitment should happen sometime soon.

    Dave
    I would like to thank our sponsors for their support:

    Built-by-Bones & SCR Performance

  7. #107
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    '98 E36 M3, '02 Camry
    wowwwww, looks like so much fun

  8. #108
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    Shelby Twp, MI
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    Dave,
    I actually ran a 4.10 limited slip in my car to start, but switched to a 3.25 limited slip later on. I had a 3.64 or 3.46...can't remember for sure that I was going to run, but I never got around to it. The car would still do around 100+ with the 4.10. When going through the woods, that was more then enough speed. Still, first and second were pretty useless.

    I drove that car to work and put thousands of miles on it outside of rally racing. I just made sure I had earplugs with me all the time. One year I took it to the Woodward Dream Cruise and did lots of smokey burnouts. Everyone seemed to love that car.

  9. #109
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    Jul 2006
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    2004 M3
    Dave, i was just up at SCR today and stopped over to see the car. It's looking awesome, i really dig the over-head cage design.

    also nice seam welding job, that must have taken forever.
    _ Garrett

    2011 Rocky Mountain Region GTS4 champion & "Rookie of the Year"
    Thanks Sponsors: SCR Performance & Built-by-Bones

  10. #110
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    May 2010
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    WRX
    It is nice to see something different - loving that cage, looks awesome.

  11. #111
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    Oct 2009
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    2005 Mitsu Evo
    So with no BMW updates, I thought I'd show you guys a few pics of the car that's forced the BMW build onto the back burner. Grant @ Built-by-Bones helped out on the fab work with these updates, the same shop that's doing the BMW cage, so its somewhat related.


    Making a reliable 600whp Evo is a simple as picking up the phone, droping some coin, and bolting up some parts. To build a solid track car with the same whp, it'll take a bit more money, but its still a no-brainer. Turns out its not quite so simple for a 600whp hillclimb car. The demands of the high altitude environment (PPIHC race starts at 9,400 feet and climbs to over 14,000) I race in are downright cruel, so I set out with a goal of fixing the overheating issues with cooling...because turning down the boost is never the right option.

    I've been working with AMS Performance for more than two years now and they've been superb partners, constantly raising the bar on what's available to the Evo market. So, of course I turned to those guys to put together a new intercooler, with a couple of interesting design requests.

    CBRD is another shop known for producing great track cars as well, but many of us know and love them for their kick-ass radiators. A few conversations with Chad to discuss my needs, and a custom spec radiator to call my own was on the way. In addition, wanting to increase the cooling capacity of the system further, I'll be replacing my Mocal Laminova Oil/Water cooler with a Air/Oil unit...again, custom spec from CBRD.

    The beauty of custom setups is you can spec them to whatever your heart desires. The downside (me = no welding skills) is that it takes a bit of time to get all the parts to cooperate.

    First up is a shot of the car from the front:



    Next is a shot from above:



    This shot is a picture from drivers side looking in towards the radiator & turbo:



    This is a shot of the whole system assembled. Those of you with sharp eyes will notice that the oil cooler is flipped 180 degrees from where we thought it'd fit. We just didn't have quite enough room for the lower outlet with the tight bend the IC piping needed to make, so we made some adjustments. I'll be shortening up the oil line routing when I get a chance.



    View from the side. IC piping is just about as short as it can be, was hoping that might help throttle response a bit too as a side benefit, even though the primary concern was keeping the pipes from being crushed in minor off-road excursions.



    View from a bit lower down, notice the air filter placement? No more sucking in hot engine bay air...I figure every little bit helps!



    Next up is a shot of the intercooler piping. This shows the male end of the Hargett clamp. Basically two O-rings tackle the sealing duty, yet still allow for 3 degrees of flex and they're rated for 150psi. They're relatively easy to assemble, and they come apart lightning fast.



    Finally is a shot of the IC piping after I've applied the reflective foil. No gold you say? Well, it turns out the silver film is more reflective (~90% vs the ~75% of the commonly sold gold foil), and it costs less than the gold stuff. Can't argue with that, so I picked up enough to cover all the IC piping, valve cover, and cam sensor cover...just haven't quite finished all of it yet.



    Hopefully I'll get a chance to take a look at progress on the BMW this coming weekend, and I'll be sure to post up more pics of the progress.

    Thanks for reading!

    Dave
    Last edited by DaveKern; 05-13-2010 at 01:17 PM.
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  12. #112
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    Is Hargett similar to Adel Wiggins?
    Regards, Nate.
    www.DriveFasterNow.com

  13. #113
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    2005 Mitsu Evo
    Quote Originally Posted by TOOLEAN View Post
    Is Hargett similar to Adel Wiggins?
    Yep. The Hargett clamps have a little bit less flex available (3 degrees per joint, so 6 degrees since mine are double sided), they taper down a bit more where the joint is. From what I've been told they're easier to put together than the Wiggins clamps, and in the 2.5" size, Hargett's are just ~$85 vs ~$300 for Wiggins. Hargett clamps are rated to 150psi at 3 degrees of mis-allignment, so that's plenty for my useage, where my turbo is only pushed to ~30psi.

    Dave
    Last edited by DaveKern; 05-13-2010 at 01:18 PM.
    I would like to thank our sponsors for their support:

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  14. #114
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    Long time no update, sorry about that guys! I've been busy with 2010 updates to the Evo that I race in hillclimbs.

    Here's a shot of the pedal assembly which just arrived last night:



    Couple of benefits to these.

    1st, I bought an automatic, so I didn't have a clutch pedal. LOL

    2nd, these have an integrated bias adjuster on the brake pedal.

    3rd, they'll let me move my seat rearward a bit more for better weight distribution, and they bolt to the floor instead of the firewall, so the pedal weight is now going to be a bit lower to the ground.

    Dave
    I would like to thank our sponsors for their support:

    Built-by-Bones & SCR Performance

  15. #115
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    2005 Mitsu Evo
    Managed to sneak in a little bit of work on the BMW over the weekend. Rally rules call for adding additional protection for the gas tank. There are many ways to skin this cat, but my preference is a few layers of kevlar. Unlike HPDE sheets, the kevlar can't get ripped off on stage, its bonded right to the tank.

    Here's a shot of the gas tank after the first layer of kevlar had been applied.



    I ended up with 3 layers on most of the tank, and 4 layers in some of the areas that I figured were more likely to be banged up with rock spray.

    Dave
    I would like to thank our sponsors for their support:

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  16. #116
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    Dec 2003
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    memphis
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    Lots o' m3s
    Awesome build.

    What brand/model are the pedals? Also any more info on how one goes about applying kevlar to metal? Why not a fuel cell?
    SOLD -A dozen ///M3s of all shapes

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzintn View Post
    What brand/model are the pedals? Also any more info on how one goes about applying kevlar to metal? Why not a fuel cell?
    The pedals are from Tilton, not sure on the part number, but they're not the uber expensive ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by fritzintn View Post
    Also any more info on how one goes about applying kevlar to metal? Why not a fuel cell?
    The 318ti has a plastic fuel tank, so I simply roughed the bottom surface lightly and laid out the kevlar. Then resin or epoxy (can't remember which was first), then apply more layers as needed.

    Fuel cells in hatchbacks are a huge pain in the a$$ due to rally regulations, not to mention hellaciously expensive. If you choose to run a fuel cell inside the car, you need to create a bulkhead that completely seals the fuel cell off from the rest of the car. Even though most racing groups say the bladder is one layer, and metal cover is layer two, rally rules call for another barrier.

    In a car like a WRX or Evo, you just put the cell in the trunk and block off the rear parcel shelf and back seat and you're done. Doing that in a hatchback means a boatload of extra fabrication, and then you're left with the issue of where do you fit one or two spare tires.

    Dave
    I would like to thank our sponsors for their support:

    Built-by-Bones & SCR Performance

  18. #118
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    Picked up the car on Wednesday from SCR Performance/Built-by-Bones. The roll cage is done! Colorado weather in the spring/early summer is typically nice in the mornings, and spotty T-storms in the afternoon. I had to move the car in the afternoon, so I was really hoping I'd be able to avoid rain since the car hasn't been painted yet. I got really lucky, and managed to get the car moved to its new temporary home without it getting wet...missed the rain by ~10 minutes.

    First up is a shot looking towards the roof structure.



    Next is a shot of the windshield area. Note the super nice gusset plating with punched & flared holes, which add lightness and strength!



    Here's a shot thru the windshield looking rearwards.



    This one is a shot of the passenger side door opening:



    Getting to the back of the car, here's a pic taken looking forward from the rear hatch area.



    Finally is a shot of the floor so you can see how we've tied the seat rails into the roll cage structure. Some floor pan notching allowed us to mount the bars even lower than you'd think.



    Next up will be to add lightness, i.e. cut out stuff that's not needed. If anyone has thoughts on what can be cut out that I haven't taken care of yet, I'm all ears.

    Also, with the Euro debt crisis, exchange rates are getting pretty favorable. I may be placing an order for a compact body kit somewhat soon. Should anyone be interested in combining an order to save on international shipping, please let me know. Parts I'm getting will be coming from www.hh-ms.com

    Thanks for reading!

    Dave
    I would like to thank our sponsors for their support:

    Built-by-Bones & SCR Performance

  19. #119
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    E30, E36/5, F350
    Nice build

    Those prices are amazing. Any idea what shipping some of that stuff across the pond would be?

  20. #120
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    2005 Mitsu Evo
    Quote Originally Posted by HoJo View Post
    Nice build

    Those prices are amazing. Any idea what shipping some of that stuff across the pond would be?
    The preliminary quote I got was ~500 pounds for air freight, which is about $700. They were concerned cheaper shipping methods might result in broken parts. Steep shipping rate for sure, but still reasonable when its all totaled up when compared to other BMW lightweight bits, and I've not found anything other than this and the Delage Sport (2x the cost of this kit) that even fits the TI.

    I'm checking with a Denver area shop to see about placing an order for the stuff, so unsure if they might be able to arrange a better deal.

    Dave
    I would like to thank our sponsors for their support:

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  21. #121
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    Dave are you sure the bottom mount pedals will fit?
    Matt Olson
    RRT Racing
    DC Metro's premier BMW service and racing facility

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjOlson View Post
    Dave are you sure the bottom mount pedals will fit?
    We did a preliminary test fit with one reservior bolted onto the back of the pedals. There was plenty of space, but I'm unsure exactly how far rearward the tops of the pedals will be when its all hooked up. I've got short legs for someone who's ~6', and Allison's 5'4".

    The seat brackets on the cage are setup so that our seat back (where the harness holes are) is about 1" from the harness bar, which sits in the vertical plane of the main hoop. The hoop is tilted backwards (~10 degrees IIRC), so I'm pretty far back in the car. We set the brackets on the floor where they are so that at the rearward mounting position, the seat is as far back as it can go based on the main hoop. Then, we have the capability to move it ~3" forwards to accomodate Allison getting behind the wheel. We will have to remove brackets to facilitate the driver change...no seat sliders allowed in a rally car.

    Steering wheel quick release and a deep-dish wheel are going to be needed to get the wheel far enough back.

    Dave
    Last edited by DaveKern; 06-11-2010 at 01:42 PM.
    I would like to thank our sponsors for their support:

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  23. #123
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    I know we looked at bottom mounts for our mod class e46 and decided no go.

    She is going to be quite low and really far back. Likely best to buy her a corvette as a daily driver to get used to the sensation.
    Matt Olson
    RRT Racing
    DC Metro's premier BMW service and racing facility

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by mjOlson View Post
    I know we looked at bottom mounts for our mod class e46 and decided no go.

    She is going to be quite low and really far back. Likely best to buy her a corvette as a daily driver to get used to the sensation.
    I don't think its going to be quite as bad as it looks. The seat tubes are mounted such that the recline angle of the seats is already incorporated. i.e. with the seat mounted in my preferred angle, both the front and back brackets are on the lowest holes, and the furthest forward holes.

    So, when we pull it out and set it up for Allison, simply moving the brackets forward 3-4" result in a net gain of ~1" in height, and there's still 3-4" of height to be gained by raising the seat in the brackets. The Racetech seats have two sets of mounting holes on each side, so they allow for quite a bit of vertical movement.

    Waaaay too much time went into trying to figure out how to make it work. I'm excited to see her throwing the car around in the dirt! But first we need to stop breaking so many parts on the Evo.

    Dave
    I would like to thank our sponsors for their support:

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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveKern View Post
    The seat tubes are mounted such that the recline angle of the seats is already incorporated. i.e. with the seat mounted in my preferred angle, both the front and back brackets are on the lowest holes, and the furthest forward holes.
    Jeez Dave, you did spend a lot of time sorting this out but from the looks of the cage pictures the hard work looks to be paying off.

    So do you think the corvette will be forced induction?
    Matt Olson
    RRT Racing
    DC Metro's premier BMW service and racing facility

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