M3 suspension, brakes, and subframes on non M e46

[bossco477]

Hi,

I have a front and a rear subframe with full suspension (springs and shocks), and LSD from an 06 M3.
I am considering installing them on my 02 330i

I was wondering if anybody knew if:
1.The M3 rack would be compatible with the non M 330i steering pump
2.If all the suspension mounting points on my chassis are the same as the M3's allowing me to do a successful subframe swap with the M3's suspension
3.Will I have any problems with the brake swap

Thanks for the

[danewilson77]

Don't know alot of specifics, but I think you will spend a lot of money getting this to work properly.

What did you pay for all that?

[bossco477]

spend money on what ? I got all the parts....calipers, rotors, springs, struts, sways, diff, axles...etc. Anyways didn't pay much at all.

I just want to make sure it will fit properly before I go and find out experimentally.

If you wonder why I want to do this....I'd like an LSD and a wider track for future track use


Anyone with experience or knowledge on e46 M to non-M traits advice will be much appreciated

-MH

[GreenBMW325is]

the rear trailing arms might cause tire rubbing in the rear. other then e46 non-m to e46 m, i think subframe is all the same might be different mounting points on the rear diff carrier for diff, but nothing to major.

[bossco477]

the rear trailing arms might cause tire rubbing in the rear. other then e46 non-m to e46 m, i think subframe is all the same might be different mounting points on the rear diff carrier for diff, but nothing to major.

I know the diff carrier is definitelly different but it's all part of the subframe so that is being completelly swapped over so I will not have to worry about that

I did think about wheel rubbing in front and rear fenderwells however I have some doubts.

I found this website (http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=19) that says that the track width on an e46 M3 is increased both front (by 3.4-in.) and rear (by 1.8-in.)

however in my Bently manual it says on pg. 400-2 difference is:
front 1.5in
rear 1.6in

So which one is right ? any ideas on another source to verify these measurements??

[Brian328i]

Very interesting thread, I also have the same questions as you. Except for the fact that I just want the rear subframe carrier and the diff.

Do you know if the rear carrier for the diff lines up to the bolts on the subframe?

Also if your doing that swap what about the driveshaft are they the same length on both the non-M and the M chassis' or is it longer or possibly shorter?

Personally I wouldnt worry about the tires rubbing on the inside of the fenders, but I've never seen this done and I'm going to keep checking back to see if your questions get answers.

[bossco477]

Very interesting thread, I also have the same questions as you. Except for the fact that I just want the rear subframe carrier and the diff.

1.Do you know if the rear carrier for the diff lines up to the bolts on the subframe?

2.Also if your doing that swap what about the driveshaft are they the same length on both the non-M and the M chassis' or is it longer or possibly shorter?

Personally I wouldnt worry about the tires rubbing on the inside of the fenders, but I've never seen this done and I'm going to keep checking back to see if your questions get answers.

1. I believe so here are some pictures for support (top 330i, bottom M3)





2. As far as the driveshaft is concerned (this is all my theory drawn from bentley service manual)

All e46's have the same wheelbase, therefore I assume that the driveshaft will bolt right up to the differential. I see same 6 bolt pattern for both open and LSD differentials.

I think driveshaft length has something to do with the transmission
(manuals have a shorter transmission and longer driveshaft. Autos are the opposite)

Here are the links for comparison:

M3:http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...00&hg=26&fg=05

330i:http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...00&hg=26&fg=05

I have an auto transmission so driveshaft lenght difference from M3 is 1mm (if numbers on realoem are the driveshaft lengths)

I am thinking 1mm (0.0393700787 in) will not cause any problems or I will just use some washers to reduce the gap

Thanks for your interest...I will keep you posted

And again any help will be much appreciated!

[bossco477]

UPDATE---

Rear subframe installation began today. Everything went smoothly in the rear except for a problem with the driveshaft(s).










I have an auto tranny on the 330i, this tranny is a little longer than the 6 speed so now I am picking up 6speed tranny tomorrow.($$)

The rear M3 diff is also a little longer therefore old driveshaft is useless. I was not counting on this and now I need to spend some additional cash

I need some help with figuring out what parts and procedures will I need to comprete the auto to manual swap If anyone can post the link to one of these conversions or any usefull input will be much appreciated!!


Note: I have many parts from the 330i for sale all with 10k miles on them
H&R race springs
Bmw sport springs
Brembo cross drilled and slotted rotors
330i calipers front and rear
Akebono brake pads
3.38 differential
diff carrier
lower & upper controll arms.....and more PM me for aditional info or email mahernan@uncc.edu

[Brian328i]

Dude I know its been a while this thread is dead but I just wanted to say this is kick ass!

[bossco477]

Haha thanks I did a succesfull swap...now I'm just waiting on some clutch and brake pedals to feel the power since I did auto to manual conversion at the same time

[slvrXI]

Was considering swapping over to M3 rear-end so I can have LSD, but its not worth it. I'd rather buy an M3... 4 door tho, you're almost there.

[bossco477]

Almost....and the best thing is that it's paid for

all mods are relativelly cheap if you do the work yourself

[bossco477]

the rear trailing arms might cause tire rubbing in the rear. other then e46 non-m to e46 m, i think subframe is all the same might be different mounting points on the rear diff carrier for diff, but nothing to major.

This is false, no tire rubbing.

Hi Bimmer forums community,

I want to write an update since I have gotten several emails throughout the months asking me about how everything went.

Here are some answers:

Q: After you put in the m3 subframe into your 330i, you said the drive
shaft was completely useless since the auto trans is a little longer
and of course we noticed that the difference between the m3 drive
shaft and 330 was that the 330's was 1 mm longer. During this time,
did swap the drive shaft from an m3 into your 330i auto, or did you
just go ahead and do a 6 speed swap.

A: I stayed with the 5-speed transmission. What I did to solve this problem was to measure the distance I needed and took it to a four-wheeling shop to have one of the driveshafts lengthen and balanced. That set me back about $160 plus tax and it worked like a charm.

If I was to do it again and I could convince myself that a 6-speed tranny is worth $2000 I’d put in a six-speed, only because as the car is right now, highway driving is a little high on RPM’s. 80MPH=about 4000RPM but its incredible in the city and much more fun than before.

Q: What all was involved in this? I'm thinking about doing a manual swap
along the lines before considering this m3 rear end swap, since my
auto is a ZF 5HP19

A: The parts that I used
· 5-speed Transmission
· Clutch
· Flywheel
· Clutch lines
· Pedal box
· Clutch slave cylinder
· Clutch master cylinder
· Throw out bearing
· Pilot bearing
· DME from a manual car (Dinan stage 1)
· EWS from same other car
· Key
· Key locks (trunk, drivers door, ignition switch)
· Locking system computer
· Security system box for the locking system computer

I got away with making the car go on limp mode by changing out the electronics to a manual’s. The only thing that I did not change was the dashboard so I have the auto transmission warning alert on all the time but it does not bother me and this way everything was less than re-flashing at stealership price

Q: Did you have to replace any wire harnesses or just get it
reprogrammed? Were you able to drive it at all or did the DME throw a
fit once it saw that the auto transmission was gone? I know Neil here
that did the auto to 5 speed swap did some jerry rigging then also he
had access to a yellowhead, progman, and some other gt1 programming
tools:

A: Answered above, the simplest way to me was to replace these instead of paying different people to solve my problem

Hopefully these answers shed some light on some of you home mechanics. Any questions feel free to email me mahernan@uncc.edu.

I also have something to say to all of the people that don’t know squat about working on the car and think/say that it’s always better to sell their car and buy a manual, or an M3, or that things are impossible to do, unjustifiable, etc.

Do some research and get a good understanding on how the vehicle works before making a comment. I think these people are annoying and it is the main reason why I do not come to the forums anymore!

It would great if you stop posting so we can start supporting each other without having to read your empty comments that take up valuable space and time!

Best,

MH




Some useful DIY http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=659314

[Smilez]

thanks man nice work

[Tom D]

the 6 speed overdrive is 0.85:1. with the M3's diff. 3.62:1 = 3348 RPM at 80 mph. 590 rpm less than the 5 speed's 1.0:1
if your interested in doing the swap.

Do some research and get a good understanding on how the vehicle works before making a comment. I think these people are annoying and it is the main reason why I do not come to the forums anymore!

Amen to that. Thanks for coming back and finishing this excellent write up.

[Entschuldigung]

Looks like this thread has been dead for years but I have a few questions and some more details that may help others.

About my swap:
I just installed a complete rear end from an '04 M3 in my 323i sport wagon (02/2000 prod date). I used everything from the M3 besides the springs, struts, and wheels. I did so because my factory subframe was rusty and needed all new bushings. I don't believe factory brake calipers will fit M3 hubs and the parking brake would not work with m3 rotors, so I am running the M3 brakes as well. 330 front brakes just came in the mail today to balance things out (rear m3 brakes are nearly the same size, if not larger than 323 fronts). I am also running H&R's e46 adjustable sway bar to better match the rear m3 sway. Everything went in flawlessly and I don't have any issues with alignment or tire rub (running 18x9.5s in back. I can get tire size and offset for anyone who may be curious). The m3 parking brake cables were long enough to fit without modification. I ended up using the M3 push rod subframe brace. M3 brake lines are the same as non-M lines. Subframe bolts, spring pads, strut mounts and lower bolt were all reused from 323. The only thing I had to modify was the driveshaft. My car has the factory 5 speed MT, so I took my driveshaft and a M3 driveshaft to a driveline shop to build a custom shaft. A factory drivshaft won't fit because the m3 differential accepts a 6 bolt CV joint and the distance from the differential to the center support is shorter. From the center support to the 323's transmission, an m3 driveshaft measures 5" too short. The 3 bolt flange on the m3 shaft is also a larger diameter than would fit the 323's flex disc. The 323's U joint is located in front of the center support, where as a M3's is located behind the center support bearing. Fortunately, the front section of the 323 driveshaft tapers up to the same diameter as the m3's just in front of the csb, so the driveline shop cut both shafts here. They mated the front section of the 323's to the M3's shaft just north of the M3's center support. It fits perfectly.

How it drives:
With Michelin Sport Comps (18x8.5 & 18x9.5), bilstein sports/ H&R springs TMS package, H&R 2 way adjustable ARB (I think this is a 27mm bar) set to the stiffer rate, and poly RTABs, the car grips so well and feels much more planted than before. I can barely brake the rear end loose into a corner from a stop in the rain. Time for an engine transplant? The car feels the same off the line through second, but pulls noticeably harder on the highway. The brake setup is an issue that I hope to resolve with the 330 brakes going in up front next week. As for now, the rears lock up under very hard braking. As for gearing, it feels great around town. It's not as bad as expected on the highway. The car cruises at close to 75mph at 3500 RPM in 5th. I would like to swap to a 6 speed down the road for highway driving.

The issues I still need to resolve:
My speedometer and ABS do not work because the M3 uses different wheel speed sensors. The connectors to the 323 body are also different. As expected, splicing didn't work. Does anyone know if 323 sensors will fit and read properly off of the m3 hubs?

I would eventually like to run a 6speed. My friend has a M3 SMG tranny laying around he might let me use. Does anyone know if the M3 tranny will fit into my factory 5 speed bell housing so that I can run it as a full manual trans? I can't find part numbers anywhere and want to avoid pulling my tranny just to test fit the two. If not, does anyone have measurements for how to machine the detents into the SMG transmission?

Thanks for any useful information! I rarely use the forums, so my apologies in advance if there is a better place to post this.

[m50b30]

Looks like this thread has been dead for years but I have a few questions and some more details that may help others.

About my swap:
I just installed a complete rear end from an '04 M3 in my 323i sport wagon (02/2000 prod date). I used everything from the M3 besides the springs, struts, and wheels. I did so because my factory subframe was rusty and needed all new bushings. I don't believe factory brake calipers will fit M3 hubs and the parking brake would not work with m3 rotors, so I am running the M3 brakes as well. 330 front brakes just came in the mail today to balance things out (rear m3 brakes are nearly the same size, if not larger than 323 fronts). I am also running H&R's e46 adjustable sway bar to better match the rear m3 sway. Everything went in flawlessly and I don't have any issues with alignment or tire rub (running 18x9.5s in back. I can get tire size and offset for anyone who may be curious). The m3 parking brake cables were long enough to fit without modification. I ended up using the M3 push rod subframe brace. M3 brake lines are the same as non-M lines. Subframe bolts, spring pads, strut mounts and lower bolt were all reused from 323. The only thing I had to modify was the driveshaft. My car has the factory 5 speed MT, so I took my driveshaft and a M3 driveshaft to a driveline shop to build a custom shaft. A factory drivshaft won't fit because the m3 differential accepts a 6 bolt CV joint and the distance from the differential to the center support is shorter. From the center support to the 323's transmission, an m3 driveshaft measures 5" too short. The 3 bolt flange on the m3 shaft is also a larger diameter than would fit the 323's flex disc. The 323's U joint is located in front of the center support, where as a M3's is located behind the center support bearing. Fortunately, the front section of the 323 driveshaft tapers up to the same diameter as the m3's just in front of the csb, so the driveline shop cut both shafts here. They mated the front section of the 323's to the M3's shaft just north of the M3's center support. It fits perfectly.

How it drives:
With Michelin Sport Comps (18x8.5 & 18x9.5), bilstein sports/ H&R springs TMS package, H&R 2 way adjustable ARB (I think this is a 27mm bar) set to the stiffer rate, and poly RTABs, the car grips so well and feels much more planted than before. I can barely brake the rear end loose into a corner from a stop in the rain. Time for an engine transplant? The car feels the same off the line through second, but pulls noticeably harder on the highway. The brake setup is an issue that I hope to resolve with the 330 brakes going in up front next week. As for now, the rears lock up under very hard braking. As for gearing, it feels great around town. It's not as bad as expected on the highway. The car cruises at close to 75mph at 3500 RPM in 5th. I would like to swap to a 6 speed down the road for highway driving.

The issues I still need to resolve:
My speedometer and ABS do not work because the M3 uses different wheel speed sensors. The connectors to the 323 body are also different. As expected, splicing didn't work. Does anyone know if 323 sensors will fit and read properly off of the m3 hubs?

I would eventually like to run a 6speed. My friend has a M3 SMG tranny laying around he might let me use. Does anyone know if the M3 tranny will fit into my factory 5 speed bell housing so that I can run it as a full manual trans? I can't find part numbers anywhere and want to avoid pulling my tranny just to test fit the two. If not, does anyone have measurements for how to machine the detents into the SMG transmission?

Thanks for any useful information! I rarely use the forums, so my apologies in advance if there is a better place to post this.

what did you end up doing for the abs light??

[coldload]

I will be doing this soon to my 323ci,

Did anyone figure out an easy solution for the wheel speed sensors + ABS to work properly? Adapting the m3 rear sensors to the non-m chassis

Curious if anyone else has done this to a 323 as well? I figure very little

[dworthy]

AFAIK all the speed sensor are the same size, so you can use your original ones. Now if you have a later 323i, like MY-00 I think they have the newer type that the M3 and later E-46's used, just look at the connector itself that's where the difference will be.