Vorshlag $2010 GRM Challenge car - BMW E30 V8

[heynerd]

So, just to recap, you spent 500 man hours on a project already done years ago to build a "$2010" car?

I keed, I keed!

And I'll guess that those fat tires and lsd caused your tiny T5, excuse me- WORLD CLASS T5, to make many new and exciting noises just before it turned in to a rock tumbler.

No kidding there.

Anyway, nice work... although the teasing of the motor was a bit tedious, especially when you finally ending up cheating with a $500 adapter.

And now to my serious question. Do you plan to build a subframe like the Samberg unit in the future?

[Fair]

Project Update for Sept 27, 2010: What a difference a week makes...

One week ago we had one flare finished, and the car didn't run or stop, and it looked like total crap. Now we've got all 4 flares completed and the bodywork "done" and the car "painted". Now its less craplike. We took huge shortcuts, as you will likely notice. Some of the bodywork is visible under the flat black primer, and the roof likes like a mess. The bottlecaps were just for painting, so ignore those, too.



Friday night was an all-nighter, and Saturday and Sunday were also insanely work days. I lost count of how many people were there. We've worked until midnight or later for so many days in a row I didn't even know what day it was - I had to look it up. We had planned to and paid for an autocross on Sunday in the E30, to test all sorts of things, but missed the paint and bodywork plan by a mile. Let's see what I can remember...



The old E36 K-brand struts we bought for $15 were partially revived (one needed fluid) and turned into coilovers. Costas had fun with the plasma cutter chopping off the old lower perches, and Paul M cleaned up the used coilover adapters these came with on the lathe, for a better fit. They are on the car but we have yet to test them on the road or set ride height. There's some old crusty Eibach springs on the front that came with my '97 M3 when it had TCK struts. They've been on the car for years and sitting on the shelf for longer. 750 #/in and I hope that works. No time to test!





Chris, our wiring fiend, finished the custom E36 ABS wiring harness over Friday and Saturday and ran some old CAT5 for the sensor wiring. Chris and Costas did some testing Friday night in the rain on my wife's E36 M3 and figured out how the pedal position sensor works, and we're adapting it to be a "tunable" ABS. Its pretty complex, and involves expensive items like some painters tape. I'll explain further, if it works. Heh.



Chris was dodging sparks from my welding on the bottoms of the flares the whole time. I think I only barely caught him on fire. I was adding reinforcement plates to the bottom sections to make the box flares more rigid and "cone hit capable".



Chris and Costas got the new harness routed through the dash and car and mounted the ABS computer as well as the truck ECU in the glove box. It looks cleaner than the pics here show.



I started out Friday by cutting the top left flare off and fixing a lot of bends and angle problems. After taking some time checking angles I found the problem, made a little patch panel to bridge the gap from the flare top to the fender, and got it all welded back together and the underside brackets built and welded in place. The right front fender had similar problems, as the hammer formed top was made from the same (incorrectly cut) pattern, so that was some extra fun there, too. Somewhere in there McCall and I made rear bumper brackets (very light, also made from electrical conduit and scrap sheet). So the rear bumper was mounted and attached to the flares at the leading edges. Lined up pretty well (better than the front) but with so many pics in this update I didn't show it.



Paul M and Jason helped me cut and hold and hammer these front flares into shape. I don't know how many hours I spent welding on these but it was a lot. Probably 20 hours just from this weekend alone was spent on the front flares. We did a lot of spot welding and hammer/dolly work fixes to the rears before bodywork began, too. Making custom steel box flares is a LOT of freagin work. Trust me on that one. We have probably 60-80 hours in the layout, cutting, fab work, grinding, and bodywork on these flares. And they are far from perfect - we were pretty rushed on the front pair. 4 people worked on them over the course of the last 2 weeks. That 60-80 hour number might be low, too. It didn't help that we'd never made anything like these, of course.



We had a volunteer that knows paint and body pretty well help us this weekend on the bodywork and some of the spraying. He didn't want to be named so we'll call him The Underpants Gnome. TUG did the mud work on the rear flares, hood and trunk for about 8 hours on Saturday and told us we were insane to think we'd be autocrossing the next day. He got the rears shot with primer after that full day of bodywork, and said he needed another week to get the bodywork right. The roof, doors, and front fenders were not touched yet. We had another full day. Hmm...



So Saturday night we decided to punt and pound out what we could on Sunday. "Right" was far from our goal. We needed "good enough at 50 mph". Jason, Matt, Amy and I poured another 12 hours on Sunday and mudded/shaped/sanded the front fenders and roof "quick and dirty", and just ran the D.A. over the doors quick and got to taping and cleaning. We poured in an entire day of bodywork, sanding and prep - done by people that had little to no skills in this area. We're racers, not bodymen!





We got it looking good enough from 50 feet, so we degreased the body and trunk and rolled it outside. Even with heavy winds gusting to 25 mph Jason sprayed a coat of sandable primer (mostly) on the car and all of the panels by 5 pm Sunday, while Matt, Amy and I held up a 20' x 10' tarp to block the wind. We don't have a paint booth, you know?? The winds were knocking us over holding this huge sail, but it deflected some of the wind away from the spray gun.



We ran to grab food at 6 pm and were back sanding this now dried primer coat by 7:30. We had it sanded, cleaned and ready to shoot by 8 pm, when TUG shot some black primer on the whole car and we were done by 9 pm. We were all ready to collapse but we got it sprayed. Always bet on black!



This morning I went out early and pulled the paper and tape off the car and panels. We'll put it together tonight and try to get some sort of testing done tomorrow. Probably something illegal and insanely dangerous. We pack up the trailer Wednesday to go 17 hours to Gainesville, Florida for the $2010 GRM Challenge. We might be wrenching in the trailer on the way. Its OK - it has lights inside... Costas, McCall, Matt and I will be there with the E30, one way or another. It will likely have zero testing, and might explode into a huge fireball, but we're going to be there and make loud noises.

Bleary eyed. I'm going to crawl under my desk and take a much needed nap. More soon...

[Pzary3233]

ROCK ON!!!!!!!!

That is all I have to say. Wave when you drive by Tallahassee!

[kts]

It looks good with the flat black primer. Hope you all don't have to do too much work in the trailer on the way to Gainesville and I hope it survives the GRM Challenge. Once you all get back I hope you all get a few days of sleep.

[Fair]

So, just to recap, you spent 500 man hours on a project already done years ago to build a "$2010" car?

I keed, I keed!

500 man hours? Maybe if we had a time machine. Try closer to 1500. It might look like a messy crapcan, and its not what I'd like to call "finished",, but we've custom built everything on this damn car. Sometimes 2 or 3 times.

As for "this being done before", well... there have been LS1/T56 swapped E30s built in the past, by folks with a lot more than $2000 to spend on the entire car + swap. We looked at the first E30 LS1 swap I remember, documented well by "Garret and Steve" (who told me they looked at our original E36 LS1 Alpha car for some inspiration), and built it on the super cheap. Completely differently. There's not much from another swap we copied except for the oil pan. We have custom built full length headers, E36 suspension and brake swap and ABS and bumper swaps, custom box flares, and all sorts of other bits. And we did it for $2000.

I don't think anything quite like this has been done before, but I could be mistaken.

And I'll guess that those fat tires and lsd caused your tiny T5, excuse me- WORLD CLASS T5, to make many new and exciting noises just before it turned in to a rock tumbler.

No kidding there.

Well, you might be right. A T5 isn't indestructible, but most of the people breaking them are drag racers. Road racers have had pretty good luck with these things behind motors making less than 400 hp. There's all sorts of goodies to beef up the T5, fixing a few flaws, even complete drop-in entire straight cut gear sets with custom ratios. The T5 is also 50 pounds lighter than the T56, and much smaller. I like the T5 and have raced with them in close to a dozen V8 cars I've owned in the past. The only one I broke had 150K hard miles (it was a highway patrol Mustang 5.0 for the first 100K), hundreds of autocross runs, hundreds of laps at TWS, and close to 1000 dragstrip runs on it. I ran it out of fluid at a track event (a seal let go) and it trashed the synchros. I replaced it with a brand new T5 "Z" code box for $900. They've done well for me, at least.

Now if it lasts for another week (GRM event) I'll be more than happy with our $100 investment, then go take the other core we have and have it built up properly.

Anyway, nice work... although the teasing of the motor was a bit tedious, especially when you finally ending up cheating with a $500 adapter.

Well, if you say so. Nice backhanded compliment.

And now to my serious question. Do you plan to build a subframe like the Samberg unit in the future?

For an E30 LS1 swap? No chance in hell.

[douglee25]

Lookin' good!

Doug

[yuiou]

nice....
amazing work.

[heynerd]

For an E30 LS1 swap? No chance in hell.

Actually, I was wondering if you're going to make a drop in subframe for an e36. But I guess your reply tips your hand a little.

I think you'd have a huge hit on your hands with a full subframe and a crossmember for a 4l60e. Toss in a wiring harness building element to make dropping a truck 5.3l/auto into a e36 a breeze and it would be even better. Imagine all the neglected e36 convertibles you could save!

Anyway, love the project. You'll have the nicest $50,000 e30 anywhere!

I keed, I keed!

[Fair]

Update for Sept 28, 2010: Normally I'd wait more than a day to post another update, but the differences from the last 24 hours are dramatic:


KA-POW!

We spent all night putting the car body panels and interior back together and it looks good. We've also started on the graphic layout, with the decals being cut today on one of the team's plotters. Hopefully we're putting decals on tonight or tomorrow before we load up... otherwise Costas will be laying them down at 70 mph inside the trailer. "It won't be the first time, nor the last".

We had Amy, me, Paul Costas and Paul M (aka: The Two Pauls) working from about 6 pm until well after midnight but the results were worth the additional late night push. I painted the bumpers flat black; I started by cleaning the E36 front and rear bumper covers, then hitting them with Scotchbrite pads to scuff the surfaces (they were both used pieces that were gloss black, but pretty beat up). Cleaned the CCWs while I was at it, plus a bunch of other pieces we painted last night: rear window trim, wiper motor cover plate, and some other bits and pieces.



Amy and Paul M cleaned up the various OEM weatherstrip seals (Armor All) and installed them for the hood, trunk, both door openings and rear window surrounds. We also started laying out where decals would go, and I took a ton of measurements for our upcoming graphics (pretty simple - mostly just big Vorshlag decals). The Two Pauls then installed the front and rear window glass - which neither had done before. They did a good job - no cracks!



The engine bay is a mess. Its nowhere NEAR my normal engine cleanliness standards of even the lamest cars I've ever owned. I usually get them crazy clean, detailed to perfection, and am proud to open the hood on any vehicle I own and show it off. Except this E30. We just flat ran out of time and cannot do the proper "pull the engine, bodywork the panels, repaint and reassemble" that we had planned. I had it pretty damn clean right after I bought the car last year, but we cut away several brackets we didn't need and then sanded/primed the areas... and now there's ugly gray primer in an otherwise shiny blue engine bay. Oiy.



Amy looked at it and decided that the worst part was the wiper cover. Its normally covered in ugly studs and sound insulation mat, which we cut off and ground smooth months ago. It was now rusty bare metal and looked terrible, so she yanked it out, Paul M prepped the surface with the Crud Buster, I blasted it with flat black, Amy laid on a small Vorshlag decal (over some crazy surface shapes) and then she reinstalled it. Huge difference. I'll clean the engine bay tonight and we'll go with the "look at the V8 and ignore the rest" for the underhood area. She also helped with the interior trim pieces - door sill, etc. - and cleaned and polished all of the glass. The Two Pauls reinstalled the carpet and cut around the 4-point bar. It looks pretty good in there now. We got the rear deck lid, dash panel, and center console cleaned up but still need to detail the door panels and maybe find a piece of carpet to cover the area for the missing backseat.



Costas has decal experience and had a strip of black vinyl he wanted to use for the windshield. He and Amy laid that on at a 6" height and we'll slap a yellow decal over that when they are cut today. We can all see underneath this windshield top strip well enough and it will provide good shade for racing under bright skies. Paul M also got the rear Dzus fasteners riveted to the trunk panel again.



The Two Pauls hung the doors, and that took a while. Blue tape on the leading edges to avoid scratches, the limit strap fell inside the door so the door panel had to come off one side, etc. Fun fun fun! Paul M laid on some black electrical tape for the X's over the headlight bulbs, for that period correct look.



I rolled the car out this morning and snapped some pictures as the sun was coming up...



We are all quite surprised how good it looks, even in black primer, for as rushed as the bodywork has been. Its far from perfect, but its mean and looks like it can get the job done. I found some stick-on chrome letters at an auto parts store and put those on for a little description of the model (325e became VM-353) and to sport our $2010 roots. Represent!



Some last bits still need to go on the car (rear quarter windows, kick panels), some wiring bits need to be finished (ABS light, a ground or two) and some pieces need to be found in the shop and installed (hood pins, one more front bumper trim piece). We have got to mount the 15x10" wheels and do some driving on them, too. Then the decals go on and we load it on the trailer tomorrow. If all goes well.

More soon!

[Pzary3233]

*Bows down*

AWESOME! and it looks GREAT! It has that 80's DTM car feel to it.

[kts]

Wow that thing looks good in just black primer.

[M5Hunter]

congrats guys, your work is paying off well!!!

[RahgBag]

That's great. Maybe I'll come out to Gainesville and watch. Too bad I'm in the middle of heavy work on my car or I'd bring it

[jmitro]

That was part of the initial plan, and we had a local guy lined up to help with glass hood and trunk, but we're SO far behind on time and the molds were going to count in our budget (we asked GRM). We could pull something off using the hood and trunk as the mold, but for 20 pounds? We've got the trunk and hood weights already cut in half, and the car is already going to be a bit on the light side for 285mm tires. If we had more time, we might still tackle it, but we're REALLY under the gun now.

seriously? in half the time you spent cutting off the hood substructure, you could have had a multilayer fiberglass or even carbon fiber ($$$) hood overlay that you can pin on and saved massive weight. especially in the front where you really need it.

if i can do it, you can do it.

[Def]

seriously? in half the time you spent cutting off the hood substructure, you could have had a multilayer fiberglass or even carbon fiber ($$$) hood overlay that you can pin on and saved massive weight. especially in the front where you really need it.

if i can do it, you can do it.

I agree on the fiberglass part. Some mold release on the stock hood and a few layers of fiberglass at maybe $25-30. It'd fit well enough for your purposes.

Then again, on a $2010 budget, $30 here or there adds up QUICKLY. Plus pins at maybe $15. I can understand trading labor for materials, but it'd still be possible on a build like this.

[jmitro]

then again, after looking at the finished product, i'd say the car does look pretty serious.

nice work. good luck

[hefftone]

That car looks so boss, it should have a plate that says "UR FIRED".

[baltic e36]

Looving everything about this car, I think it is one of the most interesting projects on the forum at the moment

[andrezbim]

More vids please

[douglee25]

Wow guys it looks great!

The fenders are growing on me!

The flat black really fits the car's personality too!

Doug

[2002maniac]

well? How'd it go?

[RobsCRX66]

I heard it didnt go to good. not only was the guys from miami e30 ALOT nicer bodywork wise but it was alot faster in both events also. rumor has it they didnt show up for the banquet at the end because they expected to beat everyone easily and was pissed off they didnt win anything. cant imagine that sat very good with the grm community.

[das borgen]

I heard it didnt go to good. not only was the guys from miami e30 ALOT nicer bodywork wise but it was alot faster in both events also. rumor has it they didnt show up for the banquet at the end because they expected to beat everyone easily and was pissed off they didnt win anything. cant imagine that sat very good with the grm community.

oh wow

that's not very sportsman-like at all

were you there?
pics of your CRX?


welcome to bimmerforums

[n24tg]

I heard it didnt go to good. not only was the guys from miami e30 ALOT nicer bodywork wise but it was alot faster in both events also. rumor has it they didnt show up for the banquet at the end because they expected to beat everyone easily and was pissed off they didnt win anything. cant imagine that sat very good with the grm community.

Thats pretty harsh. Sounds like you have something against Vorshlag...

Not to speak for them, but I heard they broke a halfshaft, fixed it, then popped the T5. Been there, done that. Pretty typical for a GRM car. Maybe they'll be back next year.

[tptrsn]

Does anyone have a link to a writeup about the monster with the Lexus v-8 with the "custom paddle shifter?"