Member
Alright well I just want to start by saying that if your not mechanically inclined or you do not have a good amount of tools or time. Then this job IS NOT for you, bring it to a trusted garage and pay for the labor.
This job was a 9 out of 10 on the PITA scale. And took me a total time of 16 hours to complete, including the jacking up of the car, reassembly and test drive.
Tools needed would be:
1) Good ratchet set including both metric and imperial measurements.
2) Female torx sockets E12 is the only one you need (I bought a full kit including all torx from E6 to E16 for about 25 bucks)
3) Big breaker bars
4) Car ramps are great to have
5) 4 Jack stands are a must
6) I used 2 floor jacks and one 4 ton hydrolique jack (telescopic)
7) Magnetic tray, and baggies lable everything if you think your going to have a hard time remebering where everything went.
8) I bought a creeper for this job best 19 dollars I ever spent in my life
Part numbers:
2 RUBBER MOUNTING front left (1) 33316770783 approx. $55.48
2 RUBBER MOUNTING front right (1) 33316770784 approx. $55.48
4 RUBBER MOUNTING rear (2) 33316770781 approx. $55.48
7 Rubber mounting front (2) 33176770788 approx. $18.98
9 RUBBER MOUNTING rear (1) 33176751808 approx $68.08
Theres many more other tools you need for prying and such but those are a must.
You can buy compression and extraction tools made for this specific job on eBay or other places for around 300 dollars, I made my own tools for pulling and compressing made of different things from a hardware store, see below.
Now this is a link of what the problem was and where the clunk or thud was coming from:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzLZkJPJsbs[/ame]
And this is a link of when I finally got the subframe out and this shows that two of the bushings/mounts had completely failed:
So to start with this job I spend a good amount of time jacking the car up high enough so that I would be comfortable under the car for the period of time that I was under there. I started the job late on Wednesday after school at 11:30 A.M. finished 5 in the morning the next day, when I do a job I don't finish until the fat lady sings, so 16 hours straight should get you done.
Step 1) This is how what I did, put the stands under the car right away. Try your best to rock the car off the stands, better it fall when your not under it.
Step 2) Once the car is securelly jacked up and the rear tires are off, your going to have to let the exhaust down. Theres a total of 4 nuts holding the rear exhaust. Let it dangle theres no harm.
Size 13mm with extension
Step 3) Your to have to take out of the rear sway bar two bolts and nuts hold it to the rear subframe size 13mm, and a total of 4 nuts hold it to the trail arms on the suspension also size 13, your going to need to hold one of the bolts on each trail arm from turning this is a size 17mm, I used the open end of a wrench to hold it. Remove and place to one side.
Step 4) Removing the heat shield and aluminium support bracket. This was the bracket in my video (see above) the heat shield is held in by two aluminium screws size 10mm and the bracket is held in by two large nuts size 18mm and total of 4 smaller bolts size 13mm. In this picture the support bracket is removed, it is symmetrical to the other side.
Step 5) Disconnecting the driveshaft from the input flang on the differential, this is an easy job but long. Theres 4 bolts holding the shaft to the diff, Torx E12 with an extension is what your going to need. Having someone else is great I was alone so I had to get out from under the car put it in neutral get back under turn the shaft so I can get my socket on the bolt then get back in the car and put it in gear so it wouldnt turn. ***Dont forget to mark the shaft with paint to line it up later***
Step 6) Now your going to have to remove the bolts that hold the shafts that go to the differential from the wheels. I marked these shafts with paint so that I can line them up when reassembling, as you can see in the picture below. These bolts are also size E12 torx, my handbrake doesnt work on this car so I had my neighbour sit in the car with the brakes pressed, so the shafts dont turn.
Just push the shafts towards the wheels and let them drop off the differential like so
Step 7) The differential is now ready to come out. The differential is held in with three bolts, two at the front of the differential and one large bolt and nut that is located at the rear of the differential. I dont remeber the sizes to use.
This picture is the rear bolt that goes through the rear of the diff. The other two bolts are where the support bracket are. Dont worry about the differential just falling out on you, you have to wiggle it around a little to get it out. Caution this thing does weight probably 70 pounds or so prepare yourself when bringing it down.
Step 8) now with the easy stuff down your now going to start taking the suspension apart this means disconnecting the shock absorber (one bolt holds it to the hub or whatever size 18mm just leave the shock absorber dangle there) After that your going to have to unbolt the trailing arm from the frame of the car, three bolts hold it on. Once those two things are done one should have little problems getting the barrel spring out. Now there is one bolt holding the lower wishbone into the subframe size 18mm if memory serves right, the upper table is held in with a bolt and nut. See pictures below for visual expanation.
Once everything is unbolted I placed jacks under the hub so that theres something holding everything up and taking the stress of the brake line.
Step 9) Removing the large bolts at the rear of the subframe. There are two large bolts that go through the subframe and into the unibody, these bolts are torqued to a million pounds. A big pipe to fit at the end of your trusty ratchet helps a lot.
Step 10) Dropping the subframe down. This is fairly straight forward just wiggle from side to side and it will come down pretty easily. This is what mine looked like when it came out. Oh ya I had to cut my handbrake cables to get the subframe down since the cables inconviently pass through the subframe. If you know how to remove the cable properly please post.
Notice how the right bushing/mount is missing the middle... well I still havent found it, it somehow dissappeared when taking the subframe down that how bad the mounts where.
This is a video illustrating the movement of the bushings on the subframe.
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7gxTSXXQgE[/ame]
Step 11) Removing the bushings. I heated them all up with a torch and knocked out the center steel peice. After which I took a cutting chizle and placed it between the outer bushing and subframe and hammered it all the way through, which ended up buckling the bushing.
Try and hammer a pin through where its the thickest i.e. welded parts.
After weakening all the bushings you will have no problem hammering them out use a sludge hammer and place it ontop of the bushing and take another sludge and give it a good whack it will come out in less then 2 hits.
Step 11) When all the bushings are hammered out clean everything with a rag and place a LARGE amount of grease on both the bushing and subframe and use a compression tool to press them into the subframe.
I tried to save time by using my #6 vice to compress everything in and broke it
The way I made the tool (I'd take pictures but the tool is finished after that job) is I bought an 8 inch long carrage bolt with a bunch of assorted washers and a nut to match, went to the plumbing isle and got two gas floor flanges that were larger then the bushing. Air impact wrench made things go alot faster. Costed me about 30 bucks.
Some of the bushings have a right and a left to them and they all have an top and bottom they are not clearly marked either on the bushing or the subframe so remebering how you took out a bushing is essential, some bushings are oval and and there oval for a reason so pay attention.
This is also a great time to go under the car and inspect the sheet metal for tears, or also a great time to weld in a reinforcement kit.
If you got this far then the reassembly should be a piece of cake follow all the steps backwards and it shouldnt take more then one hour to put everything back together.
Member
should reinforced it when removed the subframe.
Member
bravo
nice job
i have the same issue with my car
i hopefully will not have to remove the subframe when i do it and only hang it
(work at bmw and have"special tools")
just a matter of when i have the money to buy powerflex bushings
Member
Nice job!
You sure have a lot of rust and corrosion under there, but then I saw where you live and I can understand why.
Jimmy
Quality
Why does everything look rusty and super old down there?
Is that sort of corrosion normal on the E46.
Just looking at that rusty thing would make me want to replace the entire unit.
I didn't even see close to that on my 1995 318i after 13 years of North East driving!
Member
Originally Posted by delmarco
Move to Quebec for one year and you'll be ripping your eyes out. Cars don't last more then 10 years were I live unless its aluminium.
I know I really wanted to, but at the moment I dont have the money to do it. But I'm going to reinforce it in the spring time, I made sure to oil all the parts so that it would be easier to take off next time around
I know it really sucks I have rust in a couple other places on the car, but i'll take care of the in the summer, the weather has now cut me off from doing any kind of body work. I really wanted to give a good painting to that unit but it would never dry its too cold. The day I did that job which was the 14th or 15th was the first day we got snowfall... NOT COOL!
Last edited by Brian328i; 10-18-2009 at 11:41 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Member
Amazing. This is the reason our cars "buck" when shifting, right? For example the double-rock when shifting into 1st or 2nd, or letting off the gas in 4th or 5th on the freeway? I have a little of this and I swear it feels like the diff is wiggling/popping backward when I feel it.
Question: if I am experiencing the above, should I have it repaired right away, or will it be ok for say another 10 or 15K miles? What are the realistic negatives of not having it fixed?
Question 2: how much would this repair cost at an indy shop? ('01 325i)
Question 3: this is not the "subframe problem" everyone says to go to the dealer and inspect, right? is this repaired in the free subframe repair?
Very good work you did there, btw.
Member
Nice diy..well done
Member
Well to answer your first question. I wouldn't wait around for too long because that play in my opinion cant be good for the points where the bolts hold the subframe to the car. I was very afraid that the play would be large enough to end up pulling the bolts right out of the car, which would cost thousands of dollars.
Answer 2: I asked at my local dealership and the guy behind the counter ball parked it at around a grand to replace all the bushings, plus I would have to pay for the parts which costed me I think 300.
Answer 3: The subframe problem that everyone talks about is that the sheet metal holding the 4 bolts that in turn hold the entire subframe unit to the car rip out of the metal. These tears are heard differently from what you would hear if you had the problem I had. A dealership will conduct a free inspection to see if you do have subframe tears and from what ive read usually cost between 3500-5000 dollars to fix and is usually covered by bmw na. Not the case if you live in Canada, a great job to do while doing this is to reinforce your subframe a kit cost about 170 dollars but needs to be proffesionally welded in.
This is a picture of one of the bolts that held the subframe unit to the car
I'm not 100% sure because Ive never been in between the sheet metal and whatever that bolt threads into but im willing to bet its a solid steel block that is welded it to sheet metal, now with the whole unit rocking back and forth everytime 200 horses is applied to the wheels it will eventually tear that thin sheet metal, so I opted to make sure that wouldnt happen
Tee Hee...
great diy!! now i gotta do that to a 92 e36
Member
sweet info - need more ;)
Great thread.
@ Brian, I am also in Montreal and I have a 330xi
Corrosion is a nightmare for me as well, MBWNA has replaced my hood, repaired front lower doors for rust, trunk lid license plate area....
I am experiencing CRAZY noises when I enter/exit parking lots/driveways that 'twist' the car.
Last year both rear springs were broken, so I upgraded to H&R with the OEM shocks. All was great.
Starting recently I am getting a 'creaking' as the car begins twisting, under throttle it is smooth and noise free.
After that noise started, I began changing out parts...
I have changed shocks & top plate parts (Bilstein Sport)
Same noise.
I then changed 'trailing arm bushings' which were totally destroyed by corrosion.
Same noise
ANY ideas what to look for? My subframe appears to be intact,
I would love to have you take my car for a ride & see if you recognize this sound! IF that is possible, I would be very happy
PM me if you can help
or sharkmanbmw at hotmail dot com
Last edited by Sharkmanbmw; 03-31-2010 at 05:34 PM.
Member
Excellent writeup!
A co-worker of mine asked me to test-drive his 2000 323i because of a "clunk coming from the rear"
I hadn't even left the parking spot when I got a "clunk" depressing the clutch and then another "clunk" as I let out the clutch to roll.
"No problem" I told him, "It's probably just the diff mount bushing" (of which there is precisely one on my E21)
I had no idea ...
Eric P.
Tundra Mud
Didn't see anyone mention the right way to remove the cables that go through the sub frame. Are they the brake cables? On the e36 the unbolt from the handbrake lever and pull out. Maybe the same on e46?
Member
Brian,
Nice DIY.
How many miles (or km) when this bushing goes?
Member
I had a hard time figuring that out today, I looked around the web and saw a diy on another site (e46 fanatics) and that guy removed the cables from the inside handle. Just unscrewed them and pulled them out and through the subframe.
Member
Differential Bushings
So that DIY is extremely helpful. I just got a 2000 328ci and the guy I bought it off of said that the diff bushings are going. Its not that bad yet but I do want to fix it before it gets worse. I had a 300zx that's diff bushings went bad and I only drove it a week with the bad bushings and the whole dif blew so I rather not wait. Now I'm just going crazy because I can't find out where to order the parts from. Does anyone know where I can get all the bushings from through an online website?
Member
Eric P.
Member
This really is an impressive DIY!
Thanks again, Brian, great work!
Member
are the diff bushing parts for the Xi and the i the same for the e46? The reason I ask is because if I do this, I think I would like to upgrade to some poly bushings instead of the rubber ones...
Member
can I still take my car to BMW for the subframe recall or has that window closed?
'98 M3 5spd - '03 540it 6spd M-Sport
Member
hello, i am in the proccess of replacing my differential bushings but i seem to be stuck. I have removed the differential its self and was on my way to remove the sub frame but didnt want to cut the brake line. But when i went to reattach the lower wishbone i cant seem to get it to line up with the subframe to put the 18mm bolt through. If any one has any advice please help, i know it sounds dumb but im kinda in a rush to finish this project before work tomorrow
Member
Bit late I know, but for any future readers. I had the same difficulty, and I found it much easier if I compressed the suspension, by putting my jack under the wheel/hub and jacking it up slightly.
Member
i called and asked about being compensated for having to fix the sub fram was told there is no recall and never will be
but thay will work with you on a one on one basis so get your car to the dealer before you fix it and get a quot and you mite get bmw of na to pay for it
Member
Hey sorry know this is a old thread but I'm changing my rear shock mounts and shocks and have clunking bug pretty sure it's my rsm and shocks cuz my driver sides is sitting inch lower. My question is should I change all the bushings at the same time? Please lemme know. MH2323@gmail.com
Member
FYI: release handbrake cables at the lever ( take off the two 10mm nylok nuts) then pull the cable through from that side. They'll still be attached to the hubs but fine if you're dropping the whole sub frame assembly.
The cable to subframe sleeve can be very tight so pb blaster and mole grips will get it moving after a while. I didn't pull the cable all the way through the sub frame as the far end of the cable was a bit tight and I didn't need to but I assume it's possible if you clean up the hole in the subframe for the last slightly wider part of the cable.
I tried to release the handbrake cables from the hub side ( disks and hand brake assembly off but still impossible to release the cable from that end.
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