Water on the back floor of the car v8.0

[HighBEAMER]

Thanks for the insight...my rear passenger floor has been awash after every rain storm...and my serviceman has been baffled. Will get on to this asap.

[crex65439]

i also have this problem but where exactly do i work all of these little plugs out off where is the opening im having a problem locating it

[bimmerfiver]

People. This thread was created to show something that was really effed up...seemingly rare, strange...and the how-to fix it. So note to selves, the extreme, again extreme odds that your rear floor area is wet due to BMW leaving the extruded rubber pieces within your rubber seals is very slim. The extreme odds are instead that your rear floor is wet due to...a breach in your vapor barrier seal aka your door seal (the plastic sheeth within your door).

So do not dwell on your rubber seals. In fact it takes about 90 seconds total to check both rear door seals' rubber gaskets with your own eyes and fingertips (see photos in post # 1) to know if your door seals are clogged up with the factory-cut rubber grommets...

[rf900rkw]

My problem with blaming the vapor barrier is exactly because of these drains. First, it's called a "vapor" barrier, not a swimming pool liner. In 30+ years of professional wrenching, I've never seen one used as a water seal. Second, the window seals should not be allowing enough water into the door cavity to flood it. And third, the drains are there, the door should never fill to the point of the bottom of the barrier.
We had a bit of a rain storm last week (16" in three days). I ended up with an inch of water in the left rear footwell. The research here all cried vapor barrier. So I started on that path, but logic go t the better of me. I located the drains, and found that they were clear. I checked a little farther, and found the area behind the door panel totally dry. Next up I checked the evaporator drains. Those were clear also. This only left the plenum drain, which I didn't even know if a E39 has. Turns out we do. They are in the inside forward corners of the cabin filter housings. My left one was plugged solid.

We'll see if the floor flood returns.

[udoug]

where are the plenum drains... I want to check mine too if they tend to clog...

I used to drive a mid 80s Jetta that would flood in the rear footwells. The fix? "ya gotta re-seal those damn shower curtains inside the door!" was the order of the local v-dub mechanic/guru.

so it's a common problem and not exclusive to BMW. it's the same deal... base of window sits in further than the bottom of the door... water seeps in ESPECIALLY with a hose or good storm.

I've got the same thing going on with my e39 right now- started with noticing some fogging on the window the other day and then a few days and rainstorms later- I reach for my gym bag and it's soaked! Floor is soaked too!!

The water sits and doesn't evap so it accumulates in the pad and carpet and until it soaks into the floor mats or starts to stink like mildew- most people don't notice...

I popped off the door panels and as I did sure enough water was running along the metal from the back of the foam door skin about 20 minutes after the rain. So- as fancy as it is, it's still a shower curtain and the problem is the adhesive BMW used dries out- mine is in most places!

(RIP 86 Jetta- sport ed. black on black with red trim and black bbs wheels factory! - at over 300k that little 8 valve was still going good- biggest mistake was pouring a liquid "engine restorer" in- lost all kinds of back pressure from the loss of carbon deposits)

[bimmerfiver]

where are the plenum drains... I want to check mine too if they tend to clog...

I used to drive a mid 80s Jetta that would flood in the rear footwells. The fix? "ya gotta re-seal those damn shower curtains inside the door!" was the order of the local v-dub mechanic/guru.

so it's a common problem and not exclusive to BMW. it's the same deal... base of window sits in further than the bottom of the door... water seeps in ESPECIALLY with a hose or good storm.

I've got the same thing going on with my e39 right now- started with noticing some fogging on the window the other day and then a few days and rainstorms later- I reach for my gym bag and it's soaked! Floor is soaked too!!

The water sits and doesn't evap so it accumulates in the pad and carpet and until it soaks into the floor mats or starts to stink like mildew- most people don't notice...

I popped off the door panels and as I did sure enough water was running along the metal from the back of the foam door skin about 20 minutes after the rain. So- as fancy as it is, it's still a shower curtain and the problem is the adhesive BMW used dries out- mine is in most places!

(RIP 86 Jetta- sport ed. black on black with red trim and black bbs wheels factory! - at over 300k that little 8 valve was still going good- biggest mistake was pouring a liquid "engine restorer" in- lost all kinds of back pressure from the loss of carbon deposits)

Doug, your story about the Jetta has really touched me. I am sorry for your loss. Liquid engine restorer may you rot in Hell.

In the meantime Douglas, READ this thread and stare at all my posts, especially # 10, 30 and 34:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1317396

If you do not clear and clean the drain on the driverside UNDER the cabin air filter, you may destroy your BMW with 'H20 Engine Restorer' as the water gets sucked in through your brake booster vacuum hose. At the least you'll be purchasing a new brake booster and Master Cylinder.

Doug, I need to know you're connected and involved with the above new drain to look at. You have an action-item.

[udoug]

thanks- I'm going to check it out now.

So what is the best sealant for the vapor barriers?
The butyl rubber stuff is hit and miss for some... and it seems more likely to fail when reusing the old vapor barriers...
so probably due to a lack of solid prep work...

So my next option is the 3m silicone II in black... and I may go that route but it's likely to ruin the vapor barrier if it ever has to be removed.

There may be a third option!!

I can recall in past times pulling off the vapor barriers of cars and some had a sealant that was a cream color. It was thick and gooey and probably came from a tube.

Maybe this is it? http://www.bestmaterials.com/detail.aspx?ID=16896

I called a few autobody supply places and no one knows what I'm talking about (not unusual lol). One recommended urethane- but that is permanent, and harder to remove later than silicone from what I've thus read... and the other said 3m flexible butyl (aka dum dum putty). I think the latter term may be the one used by plumbers.

[udoug]

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[udoug]

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[udoug]

Edited d/t duplicate post (tapatalk app)

[bimmerfiver]

Doug,

See here regarding your question above:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1089505

And Doug, my driveside rear door is leaking again...I have to re-do it.

Be thorough, be strong and may The Force be with you.

-Bimmerfiver

[dmw525i]

I am finally glad someone else other than me has experienced this major flaw. I just got my 525i this past July and of course we had a dry summer here in Indy but I first noticed my rear floor boards getting wet after I went through a Mike's Carwash. I quickly called my shop where I purchased the car because they knew this car from top to bottom from servicing it since it was purchased from the dealership. They have never heard of something like this occuring but they dug into the issue and found that the rain/water barrier (clear plastic liner) between the metal and door panel was bunched up. They got it smoothed out and real sealed.

This solved the problem but only for a short month or so... Thanks to your discovery I will check the weather stripping; did it completly solve your leaks?

[bimmerfiver]

My problem with blaming the vapor barrier is exactly because of these drains. First, it's called a "vapor" barrier, not a swimming pool liner. In 30+ years of professional wrenching, I've never seen one used as a water seal. Second, the window seals should not be allowing enough water into the door cavity to flood it. And third, the drains are there, the door should never fill to the point of the bottom of the barrier.
We had a bit of a rain storm last week (16" in three days). I ended up with an inch of water in the left rear footwell. The research here all cried vapor barrier. So I started on that path, but logic go t the better of me. I located the drains, and found that they were clear. I checked a little farther, and found the area behind the door panel totally dry. Next up I checked the evaporator drains. Those were clear also. This only left the plenum drain, which I didn't even know if a E39 has. Turns out we do. They are in the inside forward corners of the cabin filter housings. My left one was plugged solid.

We'll see if the floor flood returns.

A few times a year I take an air hose with high pressure tip and blow out the drains in front of both cabin filters.

AND lest we forget perhaps the most important drain, the one UNDER the Brake Booster! If you remove the driverside cabin filter entirely, you'll see a small drain under the Booster. I had mine clog-up, unknowingly, then slurp, the Brake Booster sucks up the H20 and come winter...you are effed.

Had to replace my Brake Booster two winters ago. Sucked.

[atljbo]

this is what it is !! believe me.. go to napa and get a roll of that window tacky stuff they use to place in window..
what is going is that where the vapor barrior connects to the frame of the dorr the tacky is gone or not tacky.. when u pull off the papor barrior pell away the old and or reuse and replace with new ,. only need to do the bottom half of the door.. i had to learn this and have doone all doors with prefection !!
NOTE figure our how to make the air bag light go come on because u hacve to take all that stuff off..
cheers!!
jimi

[asychev]

well the first half of this thread is very helpful. I have water on my rear passenger floor as well.

+ 1, on the driver's side. Ever since I got the car new back in 2002. BMW dealer attempted to repair this 6 times while the car was under warranty but failed every time. 8 years later a little amount of rust stains show in general vicinity but nothing shampooing won't clean...

[300kplus]

Captain's stardate 2009.916

While driving to Dunkin Donuts for coffee and their new all-world toffee donut, I reached behind my driver's seat to grab a cd from my case. It's time to listen to some U2 as they are coming to NJ to rock out.

I grab my case and WTF, it's soaking wet. The driver's side floor has 1/2" water on it. How can this be? I already sealed the door with some 3M goop years ago and it's been fine. We've had massive rain the past few days...WTF?

Stopping off at Casa Sector III, while in the rain, I proceed to grab the necessary elements to take apart my door and seal it up for the second time. However, something...some force, a hunch, made me pause and meditate. So I did.

Then I, for some strange reason, as if following the command of my former Jedi Master long gone, my index finger began to palpate the weather stripping...to see if it was clogged. WOW!!! On that driver's side door, my fingers could feel little lumps within the weather stripping, all on the bottom side. I ran to the passenger side and checked...no such feeling at all. WTF? Were aliens in my driver's side weather stripping? Was it filled with amoebas, parameciums? Something, many little somethings were in it and so I grabbed my Captain America action figure, coat hanger and camera.

Using the coat hanger to push these aliens all the way to the bottom, the middle/lowest drain within the weather stripping, I then used my index fingers to massage these unidentified objects to an opening and get them the **** outta my weather stripping as they were clogging it up!

It helped to have the weather stripping moist, if it were dry the job would've been very difficult or impossible. This is an FYI.

The rest is clear to see.

I suggest anyone who has water on the floors, investigate this. I suggest all of you do at some point. Why? It would seem that whomever made these rubber gaskets for BMW...their cutting machine which punches holes into the gasket (holes which are used to let water fall into from the top and then drain out the bottom) didn't have their vacuum turned, 'ON'; it seems the punched-out-rubber-holes fell into the gasket when it was manufactured...and over time with gravity and water...they fall downward and clog up your drain holes.

I was able to force all these rubber pieces out of my weather stripping/gasket and the total count was 25 pieces. I then used an anti-bacterial spray to wipe down my carpeting after vacuuming it and toweling it dry.

I believe...believe my problem should be solved. We'll see.

I've been having water on the passenger side floor. Couldn't figure it out--will check it out. Thanks.

[Guam135i]

My problem with blaming the vapor barrier is exactly because of these drains. First, it's called a "vapor" barrier, not a swimming pool liner. In 30+ years of professional wrenching, I've never seen one used as a water seal. Second, the window seals should not be allowing enough water into the door cavity to flood it. And third, the drains are there, the door should never fill to the point of the bottom of the barrier.

I 100% agree with this logic but I could not see where else water would come from and I could see a water stain right below the door panel into the carpet. I never thought vapor barriers seals/adhesive need to be that precise

[jeremyp]

Guys, I'm new here...I just recently picked up a 2003 540i M Sport after not having a BMW since 2003. Great find on ANOTHER cause of the infamous 'water on the floor' problems. I think I may have stumbled onto ANOTHER possible cause...

Here's my story...

After Sandy swept through the northeast, I had a puddle in my right rear floor area. A quick google search popped up all sorts of threads on this issue so I went and picked up a roll of 3M window weld (butyl rubber cord - super tacky stuff) from my local auto store and went to it. I found that the vapor barrier was separated in a few places and had clearly dried out. I peeled it all off, cleaned it up thoroughly and installed the vapor barrier with the new window weld around the entire perimeter.

Here's a few tips...I used a hair dryer to heat up the window weld and cut it into 12-15" strips to make it much easier to install. Heat makes this stuff ridiculously tacky. As a matter of fact, glass companies will usually heat this stuff up to 180 degrees F when installing windshields.

The next morning, after another night of rain, I found my carpet was slightly wet again. Man, I thought I may have missed a spot so I tore the door down again. Nope, the vapor barrier was super tight all the way around, so that wasn't it. I grabbed a large bottle of water and started pouring it on the outside of the window to see where this was leaking from and I found that it was definitely leaking from the door, but it wasn't the vapor barrier seal...It was the door panel clip holes!

The door panel clips on our cars do not have the foam rubber washers to seal out water, they use the pressure of the plastic clip to seal it up. After time they must become weak, especially if the panel has been off before. I went down to my local dealer and picked up a bunch of new clips, re-installed the panel and tested it for leaks...BONE DRY!!!

So in my situation, I had a failed vapor barrier seal AND weakened panel clips that no longer sealed from dripping water. As a PM measure, I tore off the other rear door panel and redid that one...glad I did because the clips were leaking on that one too. The vapor barrier was OK, not great, but I did re-install a completely new window weld seal. Next will be the fronts. I'd rather be proactive and get them 'right'.

3M window weld is about $15 for a 1/4" x 15' cord. The panel clips were over a $1 ea from BMW, but can be found on ebay pretty cheap. I picked up a pkg of $50 for $3.99 + $2 shipping.

I hope this helps those who continue to battle leaking doors...

JP

[John in VA]

Good catch on the door clips leaking. E46 clips have a gasket on them. Don't know if they'd work on E39.
51418224768 or 51418224781 - ~$0.60 each

[perretar]

I too have a water problem on both rear floors. Saw this thread and investigated what you found. Dont feel any of the plugs inside the seal. So, I am still trying to understand your findings. For the plugs inside to seal to be a problem, are you saying the normal path for the water to drain is thru the inside of the seal ? I dont see how the water could possibly get to the inside of seal in the first place.

[AquilaBMW]

So.... Picked up the touring today and of course I have the wet rear foot well, must have been happening for a bit as this was that I saw:

[ramp]

After about 5 inches of rain in the last few days my back seat floor was damp. I'll investigate this idea. Thanks

[f355spider]

After about 5 inches of rain in the last few days my back seat floor was damp. I'll investigate this idea. Thanks

Yes, but don't ignore the more common access point....a vapor barrier in the door that is not properly sealed. The give away is after a rain, open the door, and if you seen water on the door sill, that is a clue. If not, then get on the ground and with the door open, see if you can see any water dripping from where the door panel meets the metal door itself. There should be no water or drips anywhere. If there is, then vapor barrier.

[stafi]

I have decided to share my 2 stories related to possible water leaks/or clogged drain pipes which are causing issues.

#1. My first e39 had a nice beige interior, very good shape with one exception – it was cut by someone under the foot rubber mat. I was wondering why someone would do that, but as it wasn’t too much visible I stopped thinking about that.
I knew why after few months…when the driver’s side was completely wet after big rain. In order to dry everything up I used the cut which was made by someone who apparently had the same issue in the past. There was like 3-4 liters of water under the carpets and I had to use the plastic plugs which are located in many places under the car. I had to remove the seats in order to dry everything properly and putting the plugs back making sure these are sealed. Once everything was dry I have started to look for the possible leak everything. I have found out that the water was dropping through the brake pedal, so I went to the engine compartment side and was looking for the brake pedal hole. So I took out the cabin filter and… there was water standing in the container as the drain pipe was clogged!! Fortunately or not the brake pedal hole was not sealed properly and when the water reached the pedal level it was coming inside the car. Once drained and dried the problem never returned…in that car until…
Situation #2. My second e39 Touring this time. I knew about this problem from the past to I have paid attention to these bloody drain tubes, but during the fall many leaves were falling form the trees and I was bit lazy for some time so not checking the situation under the cabin filters…
Suddenly I have noticed that when braking there was a strange “bubbling sound” coming from somewhere. I said ”wtf’’, turned off the engine and went to check the situation with the brake servo. Cabin filter cover removed and… few liters of water in it covering the servo completely with water – damn not again I thought. I have drained the hole and the water went away. I have started the car and all was fine…at least for a while.
Few months after that, I was going with the car to the northern part of Sweden in the winter. When I left home it was ca +2 - -3 degrees C. but when I was driving up north for few hundreds kilometers it was getting colder and colder. When the temperature was dropping below -15 and I was still driving I did notice that the brake pedal is getting bit hard. I continued for some time, driving on completely empty roads (very low traffic) and the situation was getting worse and worse. After ca 30 minutes I had to drive slowly as it wasn’t good, the road was covered with ice and my brakes were terribly bad. I was ca 20 km from my destination so I decided to drive slowly. After some time the brakes were not releasing so the situation was opposite to no braking…
I have arrived to the destination and parked the car in a garage for the night. I went to the garage next day to check what happened to the brakes started the engine and tried them – they were working perfectly fine. I was very confused and started to suspect that the brake fluid was bad and I have replaced it. I took the car and went to another friend ca 60 km away. While driving (-15 - -20 C) the situation repeated. When I have reached my friends place I went into his garage. The car was standing there for few hours in warm and I have checked the brakes – there were fine. So I knew that something must be freezing on cold and then I just reminded me about the flood situation from few months back!!! I got a used servo from a junk yard and replaced it. Mine turned out to have plenty of water in it which was freezing in the servo eventually blocking it!

So these are my two stories, I know it was long but I had to share that with youJ
So keep the drain pipes clean and check them frequently to avoid problems.

[300kplus]

Guys great stuff! My apologies as I just got back to this post AFTER reposting. I will (once the weather warms) try these fixes. Thank you all so much! So frustrating having to turn on and off and on the hot air blast no matter winter or summer!
All the best.