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Thread: AutoX Vs. Track Days

  1. #1
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    AutoX Vs. Track Days

    I have a question....

    I have done a few track days and a few DEs, but have never really done a real autox. Sure ive played around on the course after autoxs and all but never actual competition. So my question is how much different is autox than open laping and drivers events?

    I registered for the novice group even though i have a good amount of driving experience and car control practice.

    So the basic question i have is are these two completely dissimilar in their approach or will I find once i get out there than they are quite the same and i will be right at home?

    Thanks

    Bobby

  2. #2
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    I think a better comparison would be to compare Autox Competition to Club event races not just DE's.

    Obviously on the track you are wheel to wheel, so thats one aspect you dont get on Autox. Its really just two totally different things. One, autox, is trying to get the fastest time, i.e. best car control. However circuit racing combines, car control, race management, car management, and actually racing.

    The national Champion Autox person might be good at car control, but does not necassarily know anything about drafting, or taking different lines through a turn to get a head of the car in front of you.

    Autox is good practice for the track in that you get car control, and hand/eye ccordination as well as reaction time is improved. However I think it stops there. There are just too many aspects of road racing that are not in Autox to even be able to compare it.

    Autox is "fun" and good for car control, and getting reflexes up, but as far as preparin for racing, its not the best thing in my mind.

    Best thing to me to practice racing, tire/fuel manegement/etc is Shifter Karting.

    For me, the only way I could enjoy autox isin a shifter kart or a Formula car (i.e. fsae).

    I am new to autox, and i enjoy it, but just would obviously prefer the track instead.

  3. #3
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    Other than the fact that you're driving a car at the limit, there is no comparison. They're two totaly differnent things. I love doing both and I think if you can't go to the track on sunday, then go do an autox instead.

    Shifter Karts are probably better than anything else out there for learning how to race, but just telling someone to go buy an $8k kart and start racing is not exactly practical.

    Autox, DE's, Club racing, karts, whatever.... the more seat time you can get, the better driver you'll be. It's that simple.
    Chris
    DrVanos.com

  4. #4
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    you can't compare the two. i've done about 12 DE's and maybe 40 or so autocrosses since my driving addiction started in 01. If i had the means i would also go road racing-maybe i'll turn my e30 into a spec e30 one day.

    autox to me is like a skilled competition like pool or golf. If you live in a region where there are several people in your class with a decent number that are close to your skill level it can be very fun. It isn't easy to rip a fast time on a course you've only walked before with only 3-4 tries with about 50 or so turns while driving near or at the limits of adhesion. I find that i see more driving purists who like to compete at these events; real cool crowd.

    DE for me is more fun to say the least, and you get more track time/per dollar. unfortunately your safety is always compromised by some prick that thinks he/she is racing. I always see guys who lack driving skill in these 300-500 hp cars in my run group trying to prove they're the next Senna. but besides that, it is very rewarding to run some flying laps on a road course when you're in the "zone".

    I couldn't go without either one, they're both a blast.

  5. #5
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    One of the key elements that keeps me hooked on autocross is COMPETITION...Unless you are really club racing, you are out risking your car and your safety strictly for fun (and, yes, seat time) when doing HPDE's.
    For me, improving my skills, dialing in my car, seeing how I coimpare to some of the fastest drivers out there, that is appealing. Harold Olsen just took 2nd in BSP at Nationals. I ran against him in about a dozen events this year. he won the class and I took 3rd. In the beginning of the season, he was 6+ seconds faster on any given course, now we are within 1.5 secs or so (and yes, his car really is MUCh faster and he is a national champ after all...) anyway, my point is that I am MUCH better now then when I started, and I can continue to measure my improvement.
    I personally just don't understand hopw you can get the same level of improvement if you aren't officially timing laps and you aren't pushig the car at 9 or 10/10ths. And if you are pushing that hard in a street car, you are just asking for trouble...

    There's my $.02

  6. #6
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    I agree that the best part of auto-x is the competition. For me, seeing my times posted and knowing that I had to shave off over a second on my last run to get a trophy, then succeeding after several heart-in-the-throat moments where I nearly spun, was a huge rush. You feel such a feeling of accomplishment afterwards, especially if you bring home a trophy. It's worth all the sunburn and course working in the end.

    Also, cornering is arguably the most fun part of driving - auto-x gives you a chance to take many more corners in 50 seconds than your average lap of a road course. Unless traveling at 90-100 mph is new to you (it's not new to me), it's probably not as thrilling as feeling your car pushed to the very limit around a 180 degree late-apex turn.

    Both are fun though.

  7. #7
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    Well i just did an autocross this weekend and i have to say im hooked. It was so much more exhillarating and fun than any track day i have been to previously. It was cool being able to use what I had already learned from the track and school, plus what i learned in an autox school saturday, and apply it all to this autox.

    I'd have to say i did pretty good, but definatly have room for improvement.

    Thanks to all those who replied,

    Bobby

  8. #8
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    Bobby, where is DeSoto ? near dallas ?? if so, did ya go to the LSC autoX in mineral wells ? i cud not make it but will be there for the october autoX at Texas Motor Speedway.

  9. #9
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    Auto-x driving, doing low speed car control, and the technical aspects make it fun. Spending the entire day out in the FL sun, only getting a handful of single laps, and paying $ to corner work all sux donkey gonads. I've auto-x for many many years. After doing DE and renting out local tracks for the day I found myself easily forgetting auto-x.
    "Way-dull" Racing #74

  10. #10
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    Originally posted by Rahul325
    Bobby, where is DeSoto ? near dallas ?? if so, did ya go to the LSC autoX in mineral wells ? i cud not make it but will be there for the october autoX at Texas Motor Speedway.
    Desoto is just south of dallas. However, I am currently attending Texas A&M university, so i went to our sports car clubs event. I was a really nice event as we have our own facility down here to host autox's. Im going to try one weekend to drive back to dallas and maybe make a mineral wells autox but with an autox here every month and ones the first of every month in houston i doubt that i will have the time or money to make it back up there.

    Anyway, it would be cool to hang out with some bmw guys so ill give you a holler when i come home and maybe we can hook up.

    Later,

    Bobby

  11. #11
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    I'm sure this won't go over well, but its just my opinion,

    Auto-x = Spectator Sport (pay to sit around all day, and get under 5 minutes of seat time)

    Track Lapping Days = Driving Sport (no "work" time, and get up to 5 hrs of unlimited seat time)

    No comparison. I do see the advantages of Auto-x which most of you have pointed out, but I am tired of going to over-crowed SCCA and BMWCCA (these are a bit better) events where I sit around all day, and acutally do more "work" time, then seat time.

  12. #12
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    If you don't want to just do DE's, then go to Time Trials, that way you can compete for the best time and still be on the track. You can think of it like a big autox

  13. #13
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    I've done 3 DEs and 1 auto-x. In that order. I did not enjoy the auto-x event.

    Even though I improved my times and I was only bested by 2-3 seconds by an experienced Boxster in my class, I felt like I was spending all my efforts just trying to remember which way to turn. There was no way I could even begin to think about braking points, hitting apexes or setup for the next turn.

    Part of it was the track (www.ssccmedford.com) used for our local events. It's fairly tight and was set up in a way that we went over the same areas of the track multiple times. Sometimes in the opposite direction. There were no "pointer" cones. I got 9 runs that day and on 4 of them I made a wrong turn.

    Part of it is my old brain. I just don't have the capacity to remember all the turns and concentrate on my driving too. On the track, I have enough time between turns to be able to think about my next move. At the auto-x, I just had to react. Not my strong suit.

    I love the track. From my 1st day it was awesome. I love the speed and acceleration. Maybe from my drag racing days. I love the high g forces in the turns and drifting out to the opposite side of the track.

    There is always competition. It's very satisfying when you work someone hard enough to get a point by. Or, depending on your run group, you make a pass without one. Also, if you can stay with someone who is fast/good. There are lap timers so you can compare your times with previous runs or with others.

    It's all good. I have nothing against auto-x. But, for me, the track is my drug of choice.

    Jay

    From wannabe to has been in a few short years..... the older I get, the faster I was

  14. #14
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    amen to that Jay
    Norman

  15. #15
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    All I can say is that this is like discussing blondes vs. brunettes...

    Jim

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    Can you have both?

  17. #17
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    I always see guys who lack driving skill in these 300-500 hp cars in my run group trying to prove they're the next Senna.
    At least I am not in your run group yet ... so I guess I am exempted from this comment Mark ... : ... . I know what you mean, to many DE people seem like they want to be W2W racers when you are on the track ...

    I've done around 6 D.E's and about 2 auto-x's now this year (discounting the autox school). Auto-x is fun for me and so is the DE. Anything that gives me more seat time, I like. I can't say I will ever be competitive in auto-x ... only b/c I think my car does not lend itself to auto-x that well. I think HPDE's are far more expensive as well.

    IMHO -- I think auto-x teaches you more about car control. In essence, how your car reacts at the limits. I doubt people would go charging into a corner at 120 mph like you can at auto-x go charging in at 30 mph into a 280 degree turn. Although at lower speeds -- you can still learn the threshold limit of your tires, yourself, and the car. This is something you do not intentionally discover at an HPDE unless you have a burning desire to meet Mr. Guardrail.

    I think, whether you are number 1 in your class at auto-x or the last place ... it's good to see enthusiasts driving their cars.

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
    Can you have both?
    Not if you want to maintain your racing budget...

    Jim

  19. #19
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    hehehe

  20. #20
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    whats up James? i was doing course work while you were running at fedex, and you improved alot. i don't think its just the tires either. I think if you got some sticky tires and beefed up your suspension a bit to match that turbo, you could have one hell of an SM car.

    i didn't mean that i don't like it when the high HP guys drive in my groups, its just when some people compromise other peoples safety at a DE or don't give you a point by (me) if they have the HP to run away from you on the straight.

    i was at a FATT last month when some guy who i WOULD have given a point by after turn one looked like he was 700 feet from me. I was already off the gas getting ready to brake at ~120 when this prick in the 500 hp 300zx divebombs me without a pointby. that was NOT cool at all considering it looked like he almost ran into me. i actually caught up to him in the "talent " section of Summit point and can't say much about his driving.

    I agree with the autocross helping car control. There were a few times at Summit Point where I corrected on instinct without thinking- tires got greasy and I got a little loose in turn 3 ~ 80 mph. I think i would have gone off backwards if it wasn't for all the autox experience. I would recommend taking a car at the limit at an autocross before driving on the track just to be on the safe side.

  21. #21
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    Mark.... for 11/7 FATT are you running beginner group with all of us? I think the instructor/registrar is going to wonder why a signed off solo driver wants to run in Novice group :
    Eric WONGer
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  22. #22
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    Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
    Can you have both?
    Originally posted by Jim O.
    Not if you want to maintain your racing budget...

    Jim
    Amen to that! But if the racecars (and maintenance) are paid for by someone else and the expense isn't coming out of your own paycheck, sure you can have both.
    Glenn

  23. #23
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    To the guy who said auto-x was "too challenging to remember the turns," well, that's part of road racing as well

    Corner working is not great, but if you are competitive at the events it's pretty exciting (nerve-wracking) to watch other cars in your class try to beat the time you set earlier. Also, the group I run with has practice days and then competition days. On practice days, we get 10-12 runs. Competition days, 5-6. Not bad

  24. #24
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    hey Eric,

    Unfortunately i won't be able to make it to 11/7 FATT. I thought i told everyone at Alex's house, my sister's getting married that weekend and i have to be near UVA for the rehearsal the day before.

    I doubt that they would let me into the novice group anyway. I don't know how Alex got away w/ signing up for novice.

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