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Thread: Z4 3.0si Hydraulic Valve Lifter Engine Noise *Please Read*

  1. #1
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    Z4 3.0si Hydraulic Valve Lifter Engine Noise *Please Read*

    FYI- Many of you may already know however, some of you may not: if you own a Z4 3.0si with the N52 engine, it's possible you have experienced the Hydraulic Lifter Noise /Knocking / Tapping, etc. If you have, you know who you are. The problem is frustrating because it often goes away before you get to the dealer and leaving the car often does no good to recreate the noise. Going forward, I *HIGHLY* recommend you document the problem with a video camera and post it online somewhere like YouTube. After 2 years and 4 different visits to the dealer to resolve the issue, I finally recorded the sound, posted it on YouTube and forwarded the link to the dealer. They in turn passed this on to BMWNA who *FINALLY* gave the go-ahead to perform the necessary fix. I've read where some people have had their entire head replaced with an updated version that addresses the issue however, there is a new procedure which entails replacing the lifters with updated versions and a *new* check-valve is placed in the head. [Apparently, a poorly designed check-valve was the original cause of the problem; allowing too much oil to drain from the head, starving the lifters at start up.] I'm going to the dealer tomorrow to pick up my car; crossing my fingers this is the last I hear of the problem. I hope this helps. See link below for video of example.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKS7jdxuvMU[/ame]
    "Sometimes, it's all about the journey..." Current Bimmer: 2000 323ci Convertible

    Past Bimmers: 2006 Z4 3.0si, 1997 528i, 1995 M3, 1989 325ic, 1973 2002 tii, 1987 528e, 1982 528e

  2. #2
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    Lifter tick is common with BMW engines. It is cool you got yours addressed.

    There are all types of bulletins out regarding the issue, but I have never heard of someone having a replacement done.

    Good for you!!
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  3. #3
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    VCOUI, keep us in the know when you get your car back. Please post any technical aspects i.e. parts, numbers, descriptions, that you can. thx
    If you can't take the time to teach a kid something good, someone will take the time to teach them something bad.

  4. #4
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    Z4 with ticking noise, repaired and now knocks at start-up

    2006 Z4 3.0. BMW just changed its protocol for this repair (9/09). BMW no longer removes the heads or performs a leak-down test. Instead, they did an injector repair.

    The ticking noise is no longer. However, the engine now knocks a bit at start-up. Once it is warm, the noise disappears.

    I am considering another trip to the dealer.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by closingargument View Post
    2006 Z4 3.0. BMW just changed its protocol for this repair (9/09). BMW no longer removes the heads or performs a leak-down test. Instead, they did an injector repair.

    The ticking noise is no longer. However, the engine now knocks a bit at start-up. Once it is warm, the noise disappears.

    I am considering another trip to the dealer.
    Is there a TIS bulletion out on this or something official in hardcopy?
    If you can't take the time to teach a kid something good, someone will take the time to teach them something bad.

  6. #6
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    Late June 2009 I took my '07 3.0si to Kuni BMW in Portland, OR with a similar complaint, though my noise was not nearly pronounced.
    Kuni replaced the cylinder head under warranty, saying that they had replaced many cylinder heads because of this complaint; and that this was the first replacement head in their shop for a Z4.

  7. #7
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    Follow up to original post: It's been a little over two weeks now since I got the car back and it's been running *great*! Better, in fact, then it has for quite some time. It now reminds me of what the car was like when I first got it. More power, smoother from start up all the way up through the rev range and better gas mileage too! I went from 17 mpg to over 21 mpg avg. As far as parts etc. they did not give me any specifics and unfortunately, the service writer was a bit clueless when it came to answering any kind of technical questions. I'm just glad it's fixed! One thing though, I do believe the "check valve" I mentioned above is actually inside the lifters and was what originally caused the problems. They only replaced the exhaust lifters as apparently, that is where the problem lies.
    "Sometimes, it's all about the journey..." Current Bimmer: 2000 323ci Convertible

    Past Bimmers: 2006 Z4 3.0si, 1997 528i, 1995 M3, 1989 325ic, 1973 2002 tii, 1987 528e, 1982 528e

  8. #8
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    Strangely.....I was noticing loud lifter tick as well as tranny rotational noise when pulling into the garage and idling with the clutch released in neutral.

    It drove me nuts.......but it seems to have fully stopped after I began hitting near redline every so often .

    Odd ,I know.....but maybe ,just maybe these valvetrains need to get up to operating temps and their butt spun to operate their very best ?
    AC Schnitzer S5 Silhouette E34(ACS parts are)-3 piece type II/18x9.5" wheels, SS full exhaust, 9 piece body-kit,Low springs, Mirrors, Int. knobs,pedals, Steering wheel,Oil filter ,badges/emblems,gauge cluster.
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  9. #9
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    I've read about lots of people having the valve tick problem. Of those who've had issues, I wonder how many have automatics. My '03 engine has never had the problem, but the car is a manual and I normally shift between 3500 and 4000 rpm, even when accellerating gently.

    As you say Dark Schnitzer, these motors need to be spun to be happy. The autoboxes may be keeping the revs down and causing problems with the valvetrain.

    Bill

  10. #10
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    What caught my eye in your last post was the increase in gas mileage... with the repair you only get 21 mpg? Holy crap.. I get 26+ city and 32 highway. Makes me wonder if there is something more wrong with your engine besides the lifter tick.
    Lime Rock Park... the most fun you can have in a mile and a half.


  11. #11
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    Makes me wonder if there is something more wrong with your engine besides the lifter tick.
    ...was thinking the same thing, too. you're getting the mpgs of an ///M, except with the 3.0si engine. I consistenly average about 32mpg (mostly highway commute).
    Last edited by scottyD; 09-27-2009 at 09:55 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hallatauer View Post
    What caught my eye in your last post was the increase in gas mileage... with the repair you only get 21 mpg? Holy crap.. I get 26+ city and 32 highway. Makes me wonder if there is something more wrong with your engine besides the lifter tick.

    Thanks for pointing that out; now you've got me wondering. Hmm... Could be my driving style? I tend to have a heavy foot and use sport mode.
    "Sometimes, it's all about the journey..." Current Bimmer: 2000 323ci Convertible

    Past Bimmers: 2006 Z4 3.0si, 1997 528i, 1995 M3, 1989 325ic, 1973 2002 tii, 1987 528e, 1982 528e

  13. #13
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    I just had my Z4 diagnosed by my mechanic shop who stated that the tapping noise had a technical bulletin but no recall. He prescribed the solution as mentioned in some of these posts and quoted me $2,500 to make the repair!!! Is this possible? What other options do I have?

  14. #14
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    You have none. The ultimate repair was changing the head. Mine has it as well but if you keep the engine rpms above 3500-4000rpm it doesn't make the noise as the pressure is enough to keep the oil/lubricant in the lifters.
    At least that is my understanding and it works for me as I like to keep it around 4000. My wife however does noy and after her taking the car is most often when i hear it lol

  15. #15
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    I know this will create a lot of waves but I found out that filling the engine with 7 quarts of oil instead of 6.5 quarts is sufficient to make the ticking noise completely disappear and the engine run WAY smoother. I figured it’s probably because the recommended volume is 6.5 LITERS not quarts (6.5 Liters~6.9 quarts).

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tekoo View Post
    I know this will create a lot of waves but I found out that filling the engine with 7 quarts of oil instead of 6.5 quarts is sufficient to make the ticking noise completely disappear and the engine run WAY smoother. I figured it’s probably because the recommended volume is 6.5 LITERS not quarts (6.5 Liters~6.9 quarts).
    Maybe?? Unfortunately its hard to tell as you never get all the oil out. Sure you can measure what came out but how much was lost to combustion or leaked out?
    Also, since these cars dont have a dipstick you have to rely on the computer to tell you its full or over filled but once again its not exact because of above reasons.
    Doea anyone know what the tolerance/range is for the computer oil reading? What exactly does it consider full? Over?

  17. #17
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    The non-exhangable portion (dead space) is insignificant in terms of ticking noise. Neither are the combustion or leak out potion. During an oil and filter change, right after you just refilled the engine with 6.5 quarts of fresh oil (no significant time for combustion or leak out), if you turn the engine on, the ticking would be there. If you add the 1/2 quart to complete the 7 quart fill, the ticking disappears.

    There are only 5 bars to the digital oil measure so it’s pretty inaccurate. If the engine capacity is 6.5-7 quarts +\- dead space. This means every digital bar represents maybe 1.4 quarts if all bars were of equal volume. I highly doubt this is the case. One time i has 4/5 bars and added a quart of oil and it was still at 4/5 afterwards. I left it as is and the next day it showed 5/5 bars.

    Also your 3500-4000 RPM observation confirms that slightly more oil is sufficient to get the ticking to disappear. Any object moving within fluid causes the level of the fluid to rise more than at rest depending on how fast the object moves (think of pedal boats or egg beaters).
    Last edited by tekoo; 10-26-2018 at 07:19 PM.

  18. #18
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    Im not disagreeing with you, just trying to get more information, I guess.

    My oil gauge reads full and as long as I take the car out in between the wife during winter, I never hear the noise. If she only drives then its nack but she rarely takes it above 3500, where I like to drive it around 3500-4500.

  19. #19
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    The way I think about it is that the ticking is produced from objects not sufficiently lubricated (oil is not enough to reach there) at a higher level of the engine. People that drive at higher RPM allow the oil to reach these higher components even if temporarily during the higher rev phases. And since oil is thick and viscid this lubricates these components and maintains a film of oil to cover their surfaces even if oil doesn’t stay at this level all the time. Perhaps other people that drive at lower rpms the oil rarely rises significantly to lubricate these components so the ticking is more noticeable. We owned a 325i that also had the ticking most noticeable when my mother drove it. I find it difficult to believe that all these engines are defective and require major repair especially in the light of the ticking sound disappearing or changing in relation to driving style, oil level and engine temperature.

    The 7 quart level, at least in my case, is sufficient to keep these tickers well lubricated and running smooth at all times regardless of driving style/rpm. The car drives and feels completely different with no ticking whatsoever.
    1/2 quart difference would not cause the oil gauge to drop a bar and therefore I am not surprised if 6.5 quarts, even though not optimum, would still show a “full” oil gauge.
    Last edited by tekoo; 10-26-2018 at 10:12 PM.

  20. #20
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    I would be curious to compare old (head with ticking lifters) with new one. What was change that keeps new one lubricated sufficiently to eliminate tick?

  21. #21
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    Improved oil reach to the lifters I bet as anything that improves oil reach to the higher engine levels and oil viscosity improves the ticking. This includes higher viscosity oils (European formulas), oil thickening additives, increasing oil fill volume, changing oil at shorter intervals, driving at “higher” rpm range, colder engine temperature (thicker and more viscid oil). There are few diagrams here that show where the ticking noise is originated:
    https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13504
    When you replace the valve cover gasket you realize the default oil level doesn’t even reach the level of the gasket. Here is an image I took when I replaced my gasket with absolutely no prior oil draining or spillage:
    7A8BE8C1-79E3-4F6B-B9AA-1668FBDBC22A.jpgB2FCEEDA-B734-466E-88EC-63D924282B35.jpg

    I have never read or heard anywhere of someone experiencing performance issues or long term functional deterioration from this noise. I have never seen any videos that confirm the “after repair” problem resolution either or any added benefit other than fixing a “harmeless noise”. I therefore find it rediculous to pay someone $2500 to tear my engine apart for an alleged “noise fix” that 1- I can’t even hear from the cockpit while driving; 2-Simply adding slightly more oil is sufficient to cure. Not to mention that you can purchase a whole different engine on eBay with free shipping for $1600!! People will sell you anything by creating chaos, anxiety, fear and uncertainty!
    Last edited by tekoo; 10-27-2018 at 03:34 PM.

  22. #22
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    For all current/future Z4 hydraulic lifter ticking noise victims (does not apply to M engines):
    -Select a motor oil with adequate viscosity and low evaporation (LL-1 certified 5w-30 or 5w-40 motor oil) and observe adequate oil refill (7quarts/6.5 Liters)
    -Consider using an additive
    Liqui Moly 20004 Hydraulic Lifter Additive
    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0096Y6XPC..._hSC-Bb117374J
    Last edited by tekoo; 11-24-2018 at 05:21 PM.

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