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Thread: Euro expansion tank easy simple DIY. no $150 kit required :)

  1. #1
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    Euro expansion tank easy simple DIY. no $150 kit required

    Euro expansion tank easy simple DIY. no $150 kit required

    how to:

    install E30 latemodel / e36 euro Expansion tank on E36 I-6 car.

    parts needed:

    6 ft of 3/4 heater hose (I got Goodyear brand, avail at local parts store)
    6 ft of 5/16ths heater hose
    1 3/4" male/male connector

    OEM Bmw parts

    expansion tank pn:

    17111712641 - same as late model 6 cylinder E30, I had a spare from e30 with hoses - used the overflow tube and the flared part of the bottom feed hose

    euro mounting - e36m euro only

    41112491298
    41122256492

    The euro expansion tank and USDM expansion tank have the same 2.0 bar cap, its label should be 200 inside. M20 powered E30's had 140 labeled caps, 1.4 bar.

    how to do:

    1. remove air pump, plug valve to avoid funny noise from exhaust on cold engine startup

    2. Remove OEM USA market radiator mounted expansion tank

    3. Remove completely the 2 hoses that feed expansion tank:

    - 5/16ths hose from radiator nipple near airbox ->fan shroud->nipple on top of expansion tank

    -3/4ths that feeds the expansion tank from an under intake water pipe

    4. Mount euro expansion tank with OEM brackets - mine are still on order from Europe, so I made an alternative temporary mounting setup for now.

    5. Connect the flared portion of the 3/4ths section to the Euro expansion tank, cut after 8" when straight and add the 3/4 inline T connector. Run 3/4ths heater hose to under intake pipe, routing behind the intake manifold. if you tuck it in nicely, you can do it without kinking the line. Alternatively, you could order the Euro spec hard line that runs around the back of the head - I didn't feel like removing the intake manifold to install that, perhaps later or when the time comes for S54 swap.....

    6. Run 5/16ths line from radiator nipple through fan shroud and around the side to the Euro expansion tank.

    7. Route drain overflow down airpump hole

    8. Bleed coolant, be happy.

    I did this modification because I simply didn't trust the silly plastic screw on the expansion tank anymore - I had an aftermarket brass screw to fit in its place, but the idea of having hidden plastic nipples / joints in the expansion tank, trusting little plastic threads with 2.0 bar of water pressure and of my right foot + race gas (to combat weather) on track just didn't seem that great.
    Last edited by MauiM3Mania; 08-26-2022 at 11:08 PM. Reason: resurrected
    Wanganstyle Powertrain
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    S54B32 E36 M3 DTA S100 Sedan Street car full swap:
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471

  2. #2
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    Great thread, thanks for sharing. It'll come in handy for quite a few people I'm sure.

    The Euro expansion tank is self-bleeding, right?



  3. #3
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    Nice write up. What is the advantage of using a Euro tank?

    What is that airpump thing you removed used for?
    '97 M3 Sedan Cosmos Black

  4. #4
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    pumping air

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaardesign View Post
    What is that airpump thing you removed used for?
    Pumps air into the exhaust stream to improve cold-startup emissions.
    -Peter

    Current toy: none
    Past cars: 88 M3, 99 M3 x2, 04 M3, 91 NSX, 06 S2000, 01 911TT, 06 Exige, 00 NSX, 04 GT3

  6. #6
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    Nice write up. Have you thought about doing an elbow connector for the top of the radiator? Seems like it would be less stress on that little nipple.
    ----Dave----

  7. #7
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    Good install, but personally I would have chosen to use the Euro hard-lines as well.... eliminating long runs of rubber hose (potential failure points).

    Mike... aka Track Junkie
    '98.5 M3 Coupe Titan Silver

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by bmwpowere36m3 View Post
    Good install, but personally I would have chosen to use the Euro hard-lines as well.... eliminating long runs of rubber hose (potential failure points).
    This.

  9. #9
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    I ran the stock USA hose reversed behind the block to the Euro tank for a year without problems. The stock hose would probably be long enough but for its molded bends, so long lengths of rubber hose are OK by BMW's standards if routed properly. I did add an elbow section of another stock hose for the last 8 inches to the tank for convenience.

    Later, I swapped in some of that corrugated metal heater hose. I forget what it is called Cool Hose or something like that. It is expensive aftermarket radiator hose and you can get it in 48 inch lengths for heater hose purposes. I ran that for another year, again with an added section of rubber elbow to the tank. When I did the headgasket, I swapped in the Euro pipe. Certainly the Euro pipe is better though.

  10. #10
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    what did you do to prevent a CEL from the lack of air pump?

    current = '99 Estoril/Mulberry M3 Coupe :: past = '97 Alpine/Anthrazit M3 Coupe

  11. #11
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    That needs to be addressed with an air pump sim or software.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    That needs to be addressed with an air pump sim or software.
    right.

    that makes this a typical BFc mod... it doesn't really fix a problem but causes one.

    i agree that it's cool looking but to go through that only to fail emissions, stare at a CEL or spend more time and money....

    well you get the point.

    current = '99 Estoril/Mulberry M3 Coupe :: past = '97 Alpine/Anthrazit M3 Coupe

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    deleted
    Last edited by wanganstyle; 03-02-2021 at 03:04 PM.
    Wanganstyle Powertrain
    http://www.wanganstyle.com/

    S54B32 E36 M3 DTA S100 Sedan Street car full swap:
    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1437471

  14. #14
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
    random JDM tizzzite cnc aluminum VTA bov recirc intake piping plug.
    Is there a translation available into, say, an Earth language, for those of us who don't speak Wangan?

    Neil

  15. #15
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    I think I'll go ahead and keep my airpump in there..as well as my US spec expansion tank.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    Is there a translation available into, say, an Earth language, for those of us who don't speak Wangan?

    Neil
    He's using an intake plug for a VTA blow off valve to cover the hole left by the air pump. It's basically just a round aluminum plug, on the right in this pic found on google images:


    Often times when people run an aftermarket blow off/bypass valve, they vent it atmospherically. When doing so, they need to plug the hole in the intake boot where the OEM bypass valve purges into, otherwise you get rogue air entering through a large hole.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by wanganstyle View Post
    .... the euro bottle is not self bleeding, its an overflow just like on any japanese car- the expansion tank setup started with e36/e38/e39, prior bmw's used normal style coolant overflows....
    Wrong, it is self-bleeding. I'm surprised BMW didn't keep it on US cars, hell my old '90 300E had one and they've had them since the early 80's. I guess just another sacrifice for the US market in terms of emissions, safety, and cost.
    Last edited by bmwpowere36m3; 08-23-2009 at 02:34 PM.

    Mike... aka Track Junkie
    '98.5 M3 Coupe Titan Silver

  18. #18
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    I've simply never had an issue with..bleeding. I change my coolant once every two years...and to bleed once every 24 months, really has never seemed to be that massive of an issue

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badgtho is back View Post
    right.

    that makes this a typical BFc mod... it doesn't really fix a problem but causes one.

    i agree that it's cool looking but to go through that only to fail emissions, stare at a CEL or spend more time and money....

    well you get the point.
    You won't get too far modding if you give up because doing it right takes more effort or costs more than you thought. Like many mods, this one is not for everyone.

    I use the Euro one on my supercharged 400+ rwhp 99 M3 that gets worked on much more often than once every two years due to all the mods. It has certainly been more convenient without the cold start pump and with the Euro tank. The stock tank remains in my 99 528i. That car is stock and gets worked on about once every 2 years but is so dull to drive that I always look forward to getting back in the go kart M3 even if I do work on the M3 a lot more.

  20. #20
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    There are many better options for people with high cooling needs (Zionsville cooling kits, for example) than ghetto-rigging the Euro expansion tank. If you're going to install the Euro tank, at least do it right with the OEM hardware.

    I have no problem with people deleting the secondary air pump if it's not going to prevent them from passing an emissions inspection, but to claim that the Euro expansion tank is massively superior to the US one is not accurate. Is it better? Yes. Is it worth the money for the OEM hardware, and the hassle and money involved in removing the secondary air pump and trying to work around the CEL, etc? No.

    1999 Estoril/Gray M3

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    You won't get too far modding if you give up because doing it right takes more effort or costs more than you thought. Like many mods, this one is not for everyone.
    modding for the sake of modding is just plain a waste of time.

    this mod builds no power and solves no issue that cannot be solved with other means.

    maybe on 95s it makes sense.. but for those of us with OBDII cars and emissions, i'll stick with my air pump. the air pump weighs little and steals zero power.

    current = '99 Estoril/Mulberry M3 Coupe :: past = '97 Alpine/Anthrazit M3 Coupe

  22. #22
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    It is all relative. One guy spent a long time adding power vent windows to his E36M3. They made no power and the venting issue could be solved with other means, like opening the windows manually. Some people wash their cars even when they are already pretty clean. Others spend lots of time and money making their car faster when they could just buy a faster car instead. Some people spend lots of money racing their car on the track, which other people might consider a waste of time. I tinker with my car constantly and I am sure that many people here would find that much of what I do would be a waste of time for them -- and I suspect that I would find that much of what they do with their free time would be a waste of time for me.

    The Euro tank is a perfectly acceptable mod; I have seen plenty of other mods that are much less interesting to me. There are ways to do it that preserve the smog pump (it could be relocated). But again, not all mods are for all people.

  23. #23
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    +1. Very well articulated Phillip!

    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    It is all relative. One guy spent a long time adding power vent windows to his E36M3. They made no power and the venting issue could be solved with other means, like opening the windows manually. Some people wash their cars even when they are already pretty clean. Others spend lots of time and money making their car faster when they could just buy a faster car instead. Some people spend lots of money racing their car on the track, which other people might consider a waste of time. I tinker with my car constantly and I am sure that many people here would find that much of what I do would be a waste of time for them -- and I suspect that I would find that much of what they do with their free time would be a waste of time for me.

    The Euro tank is a perfectly acceptable mod; I have seen plenty of other mods that are much less interesting to me. There are ways to do it that preserve the smog pump (it could be relocated). But again, not all mods are for all people.
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  24. #24
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    This is definitely a nice upgrade if you DIY any of the work on your car, as the euro tank is self-bleeding and eliminates the stupid/messy US-spec bleed procedure (a procedure that often leaves air pockets in the system).

    This mod is not one you just run out and do on GP, but if you need a new expansion tank anyway and have already removed the SAP (most people w/ headers got rid of the SAP a long time ago), then going w/ the euro tank makes sense.

    From what I can see, the OP's budget retro fit is actually pretty well executed. Nice job.
    Garrett

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    It is all relative. One guy spent a long time adding power vent windows to his E36M3. They made no power and the venting issue could be solved with other means, like opening the windows manually.
    I added power vent windows because they allow me to open and close my rear vent windows without having to pull over. Saying that I should leave the vent windows open the entire drive is silly - if it rains, or if I get on the highway, I want to close them. If I want to listen to music, I want to close them.

    There is no comparison between a mod that actually increases convenience significantly and causes no problem whatsoever, and one that has little to no performance increase and causes a problem by the removal of the air pump.

    The euro tank is a very cool mod, but it has to be done right, and it isn't worth it if it's going to cause a whole host of new problems. There is no suitable place to relocate the secondary air pump unless you plan to remove your windshield wiper reservoir (again, this introduces a new problem - no wiper fluid).

    I'm not saying the OP is stupid - I'm saying that the OP should have at least done it with the proper OEM hardware and lines (rather than rubber tubing that's prone to cracks and all that).

    1999 Estoril/Gray M3

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