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Thread: Car is eating pressure plates what gives? E36 M3 1995

  1. #51
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    I know I'm like the balance nazi in this thread, but I wouldn't bother balancing the clutch plate. I suppose you could have it checked to be sure....but I would NOT have it balanced along with the flywheel and PP....those should be balanced as a unit without the clutch plate. Remember that the clutch plate spins inside the flywheel/PP assembly (or more accurately, the flywheel/pp assembly spins around the clutch plate when the clutch is engaged)...it does not remain static in there. If anything, you would want to zero balance the clutch plate on its own.

    Good to see the OP found his issue....and Brad...you SHOULD know better....LOL!
    Last edited by S.Lang; 09-08-2009 at 11:16 PM.

  2. #52
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    To answer questions: yes it is a UUC flywheel, yes i had the flywheel balanced on its own then the pressure plate is bolted to the flywheel and balanced again this time taking materiel off the pressure plate...The disk was inspected and spun just for good measure and it was perfect.

    Raydoc - yes I brought it to the place you recommended, thank you for pointing me in that direction Mike is a great guy, I chatted with him for about an hour, hes a talker, and zint knows what hes doing.
    ??????????????????????????????
    BMW Tech

  3. #53
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    I understand and agree with the concept of balancing componenets as an assembled unit (auto OEMs even match mark wheels and tires aligning high and low spots), however I can't understand why I would need to balance individual components. Isn't that part of what you are paying for in a flywheel, or are they sold in a partially finished state (some assembly required)?

    At the volumes we are talking about, even one "out of balance flywheel" points to a major QC failure at the manufacturer. The fact that multiple manufactures have been mentioned leads me to the following hypotheses;
    1) The aftermarket manufacturers of flywheels really don't know what they are doing.
    2) The independant shops measuring the balance don't know what they are doing.
    3) The tolerances on the aftermarket flywheel and PP balance specs can produce enough stackup to create a significantly out of balance system, even though the indiviudal compenents meet their respective specs.

    I suspect there is a little of all three, but mostly #3. No OEM that I am aware of balances flywheels and PP's as a system, so obviously the are able achieve tolerances on the individual parts such that this is not an issue.

    Since I haven't heard oy anyone having similar issues when installing any brand PP to a stock flywheel, one has to assume that the difference is in the aftermarket i.e. LTW flywheels. It would stand to reason that because of their lower mass the effects of any system imbalance will be magnified, so the tolerance on the system and the flywheel itself may need to he significantly tighter than the stock components.

    For the FW manufacturers, they need to view the PP and engine specific issues as system noise which they cannot control, and design/manufacture their components robustly so that they can perform with the given noise. If this means tighter balance specs or slightly more mass, so be it. For the rest of us, I guess we need to get LTW FW's and PP's balanced as a unit.
    Shea Burns

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaredM3 View Post

    Raydoc - yes I brought it to the place you recommended, thank you for pointing me in that direction Mike is a great guy, I chatted with him for about an hour, hes a talker, and zint knows what hes doing.
    Can you name this shop?

    What is the ballpark price for a ballancing service like this?
    Jon

    98 M3 Track/Autocross/Street- AST 4100s.
    94 325is beater

  5. #55
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.Lang View Post
    I know I'm like the balance nazi in this thread, but I wouldn't bother balancing the clutch plate.
    Plus the clutch disk really doesn't weigh all that much in the first place, and carries a lot of what mass it does have close to the axis of rotation, where the imbalance effect of unequal mass distribution is minimized.

    Neil

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    Plus the clutch disk really doesn't weigh all that much in the first place, and carries a lot of what mass it does have close to the axis of rotation, where the imbalance effect of unequal mass distribution is minimized.

    Neil
    Don't know how you'd balance with the disc anyway since it will be at a different orietation vs. the FW and PP every time it is engaged.
    Shea Burns

  7. #57
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by ssburns View Post
    Don't know how you'd balance with the disc anyway since it will be at a different orientation vs. the FW and PP every time it is engaged.
    That was S.Lang's original point. I was observing that even zero balancing the clutch disk separately isn't going to make much difference.

    Neil

  8. #58
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    I will say that after going through several flywheels, clutches, pressure plates, a tranny (and yes, stuff was balanced prior to installation) I ultimately found a fragged harmonic balancer. Did the tranny stuff kill the balancer? That is my thought but it has been offered that the shot balancer allowed harmonics to kill the downstream parts.

    Anyway, if it rotates, balance it. I agree that the friction disk is a negligable part of this process but the flywheel and PP should be spun together and indexed.

    Mine was done a few years ago. I seem to remember about $75. If and when the crank and cams need to come out, they are getting spun as well.

    www.lindskogbalancing.com



    1998 E36 M3-4 track car Techoviolet
    1995 E36 M3-2 Boston green
    2006 E90 330xi

  9. #59
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    Hi all,

    I realize this is an old thread but it has some really insightful information that I think could help in figuring out a problem I am having.

    Coles notes:
    1. Bought e36 328IS 4 years ago. Car had a broken pressure plate. Replaced with stock LUK flywheel bought new, and a replacement SACHS OEM clutch kit provided by the seller.
    2. Car was broken in for 500km
    3. Car was driven to and tracked for 3 track days/time attack events (maybe 800km total with 300km being track)
    4. On the last run of the last track day, the gears did not engage when the car was on. Fine when off.
    5. Mechanic pulled tranny, said nothing was obviously wrong. Replaced clutch master and slave cylinders. Drove it home and it was fine. Next day, same non shifting issue.
    6. Car sat for 3.5 years.
    7. I finally had time to get to it, test drove it worked fine. Day after same problem appeared. Definitely an intermittent issue.
    8. Pulled the tranny and found one finger of the pressure plate was bent. Looked like where the finger was bent, the pressure plate had more wear material from the clutch disk. Looked to confirm that the pressure plate was not lifting off evenly and partially engaging the transmission (but not enough to move the car).

    I'm leaning towards replacing the PP and want to blame an improper torquing sequence causing fatigue. That, or faulty parts from the PP supplier (or maybe even a knockoff). Without pulling the motor, anything else I should check for? The balance shaft I am unfamiliar with. Can I datalog my car with accelerometers anywhere to measure this vibration? The engine looks to run silky smooth up the rev range.


    Pictures:


























    And the old Pressure plate removed (is this an original e36 Pressure plate?):

    Last edited by Malereka; 11-27-2017 at 06:13 PM. Reason: Fixed pic links.

  10. #60
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    Only 1 picture is working...
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  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWyte View Post
    Only 1 picture is working...
    I believe I fixed it, let me know if you can see them, thanks.

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