Car Cranks but won't start

[sk8rpirate]

After doing a search for this topic, i did find other threads, but they didn't quite hit the mark. I have a 1999 BMW 328i with 149K miles (automatic transmission). I recently (2 days ago) had the oil changed at the dealership (it was free).

When I turn the key on my car, the car cranks, but doesn't start. This hadn't happened before. However, the last time I drove the car before this happened. While going around 35-45mph, I noticed some hesitancy when pushing down on the accelerator.

What I have done so far:
- Checked the battery. Battery is fine, strong, lots of power.
- Replaced the fuel filter.
- Disconnected rear hose leading into the fuel filter and put into a bottle. Turned key to position 2. No fuel went into the bottle. Car indicates 1/2 full.

I suspect the fuel pump. However, is there anything else I should check first before ordering the part?

Thanks.

[johnjmurray]

I haven't fooled with it but there is also a relay near the pump that you ought to check/change. You should be able to detect the noise from the pump in key position 2. Also, there is a schrader fitting on the fuel rail. Gas should come out of it if all else is working correctly...

Don't forget to check the fuse panel, just in case. Wouldn't it be great if that's all it was?

[OC Specialist]

I haven't fooled with it but there is also a relay near the pump that you ought to check/change. You should be able to detect the noise from the pump in key position 2. Also, there is a schrader fitting on the fuel rail. Gas should come out of it if all else is working correctly...

Don't forget to check the fuse panel, just in case. Wouldn't it be great if that's all it was?

Howdy. I used to work at south bay bmw back in 2000, maybe I worked on your car before!! lol

Well, if you had a burnt fuse the question would be why did it blow?

You more than likely have a bad fuel pump.
Take a volt meter and apply it to the two fat wires( 4 wires in the connector) on the passender side sending unit (under the back seat). You should see 12 volts. If you don't have power, than yea you could check the relay and the fuse. If you have power, you have a bad fuel pump. At your mileage, I'm gonna guess you have a bad fuel pump.

Are you a DIYer? If so its not a hard job. You need the tool or a method of removing the locking ring around the fuel sender, the rest is straightforward. Hopefully you don't have a full tank of gas.

JC

[dirsh]

try swapping the fuel pump relay with the horn relay

[sk8rpirate]

Thanks everyone!

I forgot to mention that I did pull, check and reset the fuse.

When I put the ignition to position 2, I don't hear anything. I even pulled the back seat and tried, but not a sound.

Where is the pump (and horn) relay located? (a picture would be most helpful)

And yes, OC Spec, I try to DIY as much as possible. I already looked up the DIY for the pump and it looks doable. Where can I get the tool for the lock ring?

[slvrXI]

I would just personally like to compliment you on your professionalism to this forum.. lately we have had people asking advice when they had no intent to use it... something as simple as the horn stays on whenever the car is running... its not hard to check the switch in the horn contacts, or even the relay, but he refused, yet still asked for more information... Glad that you are not anything like him...

Here is a sure fire way to find out if its the fuel pump... Do you have a DVOM?? or Voltmeter?? GOOD

Set it on DC volts... now take out the back seat bottom cushion (it takes a nice pull at the back side and the whole thing unclips and comes out... Now locate the connector going to the fuel pump... You with me?? it should be heading down towards the floor (you might have to take off a little rubber gromet but you can handle that right??) and it plugs right into the fuel pump... Unplug that and hook up the meter to the connector...

Now turn the key... do you see approximately 12V?? (you might have to mess around, checking different wires, i forgot how many go to the fuel pump...) If you cannot get 12 volts out of any of the wires leading to that connector... Then you have electrical problem (fuse, relay, wiring, etc.) However if you get 12V coming out of one of those wires, then FOR SURE your fuel pump has failed you.

Happy motoring and once again thankyou for being a non douche bag on the forums...

Really I mean it, the fact that you...
- Checked the battery. Battery is fine, strong, lots of power.
- Replaced the ......... ........... .........
- Disconnected rear hose leading into the fuel filter and put into a bottle. Turned key to position 2. No fuel went into the bottle. Car indicates 1/2 full.

It means a lot to us that are just trying to help out...

Good luck.

BTW that back seat literally just pops out with a nice upward pull when you are hanging on to the sides... incase you were worried.

[OC Specialist]

Just because you didn't hear anything, doesn't rule out that there is or is not voltage at the fuel pump. I've replaced many fuel pumps that were dead quiet when they were having power applied.

While you have the back seat out, have someone else try to start the car, continuously cranking, while you gently but still with some power bang on the top of the fuel pump sending unit with either a dead blow hammer or the wood end of a hammer. Just give it some strong thuds without actually breaking anything. Often times you can get a bad fuel pump to come alive briefly , once again verifying you're dealing with a bad pump.

I've seen try to use big channel lock pliers on that lock ring, or a big flat head screw driver and a hammer to break the thing loose. (neither are great choices though imo)

I have the dealer tool. I'm sure ebay vendors and OTC and places have the tool if you have time to order it. If you get far enough that you get stuck at this point, PM me and I can swing by your place and lend you my tool.

I believe the relay is in the ebox, in that pocket next to the master cylinder held down with 5 or so 5mm allen headed bolts. Sorry I can't spell out which one. I doubt that that is your problem but you never know until you bust out your volt meter and start at the fuel pump and work your way back.

[sk8rpirate]

Thank you very much for the info. I will put my voltmeter to it as soon as I can (tomorrow). The step by step is very helpful.

And SlvrXi, thank you for the compliment. I try to do my homework first. I had already pulled the rear seat so that I could try to hear the pump better. I didn't try tapping it with a hammer handle. I will try that one.

I recently purchased the car (within the last couple of months). I just ordered a CD service manual (cant afford the bentley manual right now). Hopefully the CD is OK.

Thanks again.

[dirsh]

relays and fuses are located behind the glovebox. open it and turn the white tabs to drop down the box

No. Description Supplement Qty From Up To Part Number Price Notes
i Important: relay position for vehicles
without headlight cleaning system
For vehicles with
Air conditioning
01 Relay, make contact, white green 1 61368373700 $11.38
only applies to
EMISSION CONTROL-AIR PUMP
02 Relay changer salmon red 1 12631742690 $8.04
FOR FUEL PUMP
03 Relay, make contact, white green 1 61368373700 $11.38
ONLY APPLIES TO HEATER
04 Connection plug, golden brown 30/87 1 61368366282 See SI 121994675, SI 1300012, SI 612698792
04 Relay, make contact, white green 1 61368373700 $11.38
For vehicles with
Fog lights
05 Relay, make contact, orange 1 61361378238 ENDED
05 Relay, make contact, white green 1 61368373700 $11.38
FOR HORN
06 Relay, make contact, white green 1 61368373700 $11.38

3 and 6 are the same
there are other relays that are the same but horn is the most useless one

[sk8rpirate]

We put the voltmeter on the electrical clip. It checked out good. There is electrical power (tried all connectors, key on and off). Also tried gently tapping on the fuel pump with a rubber mallet, still no luck.

I looked in the glove compartment (behind the white tabs), but there were only fuses, no relays. I think the relays are just in front of the driver at the rear of the engine compartment.

Here is a url to a picture just put the http part in front of it(I can't put a link 'cause I am a new member):
i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii158/bigfredlab/bmw/bmw-relay-panel.jpg

If you look at the image, I swapped Relay "A" with Relay "B". Still no joy.

Are these the correct two relays? Which one is the Pump Relay?

In any case, I ordered the fuel pump, gasket, and fuel pump relay.

relays and fuses are located behind the glovebox. open it and turn the white tabs to drop down the box

< Picture of Relay Panel Omitted >




3 and 6 are the same
there are other relays that are the same but horn is the most useless one

Dirsh,

Is the relay panel behind the fuse panel in the glove box? If so, how do I access it?

[bigfredb]

Dirsh,

Is the relay panel behind the fuse panel in the glove box? If so, how do I access it?

I have the same problem and the same question.

I don't see any relays, all I see are fuses.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[dirsh]

just pull it down some more and look harder

[slvrXI]

Wait... If you have voltage at the fuel pump then there is no need to go searching for any relays/fuses. You infact have a definite diagnosis of the Fuel pump.

[dirsh]

most likely

[sk8rpirate]

Thanks everyone. I will take a harder look for the relays.

I have a fuel pump on order and it should be here on Thursday. I also ordered a fuel pump relay.

Hopefully this works.

[mustang00]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1175926

[sk8rpirate]

Thanks Mustang, I had seen that thread. Same issue, just needed more detailed info.

Still waiting for the part. Will report back when done.

[sk8rpirate]

my new fuel pump came in today and was wondering if anyone had any tips for taking off the retaining ring that is around / on top of the fuel pump.

thanks in advance

[bmwdave37]

There is a special tool to rotate and remove that ring. If not, I usually use a flat blade screw driver and a small rubber mallet. Place the screwdriver on one of the tits on the ring, and hit screwdriver with mallet. Lefty loosey, do not overtighten on reassembly, the tank threads are plastic. Also, many people put the seal ring on the pump, then shove it down. This is incorrect and it will leak. Carefully place the seal ring on the tank first, lube it well, then slide in the pump. Good luck and feel free to reply if you have more q's.

[sk8rpirate]

VICTORY!!!!! done in less than 30min once my dad got home and put some xtra muscle in it.
(ended up using the flathead screwdriver method to get the retaining ring off)

super easy thanks to all who helped
car runs soooo much better now
saved $$$$$$$

[nathancarter]

Good job! Glad to hear you're running again.

Hang on to that fuel pump relay -

[AbsolutE36]

I have the same problem... woke up one day and the car cranked but wouldnt start, so i took the car to princeton bmw and they told me it was my throttle valve and a relay after 1200$ I took the car home drove it for bout a week and now is doing the same thing again... after checking the forums and googling the problem i repaced the fuel pump because I dont feel like paying for towing and a wrong diagnostic. any suggestions? someone told me this might be a dme problem?

[danewilson77]

I have the same problem... woke up one day and the car cranked but wouldnt start, so i took the car to princeton bmw and they told me it was my throttle valve and a relay after 1200$ I took the car home drove it for bout a week and now is doing the same thing again... after checking the forums and googling the problem i repaced the fuel pump because I dont feel like paying for towing and a wrong diagnostic. any suggestions? someone told me this might be a dme problem?

Dude......did you jack this guys thread....lol.

You may get more responses if you start a new thread...as the OP's problem has been corrected.

[AbsolutE36]

Dude......did you jack this guys thread....lol.

You may get more responses if you start a new thread...as the OP's problem has been corrected.

thanx your very helpful... cant believe ur not a moderator. Hence I have the same problem obviously he found his solution, and well I havent... hopefully he wont hate me for asking on his thread if anyone know what might be wrong with my car. I think you might be misinformed as of what jacking a thread is.

[danewilson77]

thanx your very helpful... cant believe ur not a moderator. Hence I have the same problem obviously he found his solution, and well I havent... hopefully he wont hate me for asking on his thread if anyone know what might be wrong with my car. I think you might be misinformed as of what jacking a thread is.

Ummm...ok.

I still think you'll get more responses if you start a new thread....or we can keep talking about how not to fix your car.....

Have a great one man....and good luck....just messing with ya