4 Bar Fuel Pressure Regulator questions

[trayson]

Currently have have the following on my E36 M3 (s52)

• Dinan CAI
• Dinan TB
• Dinan Software

My plans for the future include:

• M50 manifold
• Euro 3.5" HFM
• Ungraded Dinan Software (stage 5)

This is what Dinan says about their stage 5 software:

Stage 5 Software for use with Cold Air Intake System, Air Flow Meter, Throttle Bodyand Schrick Intake Manifold.

Now, I know that the M50 and Euro HFM are basically the same stuff that would be accomodated by a Dinan Stage 5 kit with the exception that Dinan includes a 4-Bar (rising rate) Fuel Pressure Regulator. And I haven't found a great source of aftermarket FPR's.

Since the Dinan software was written with the upgraded FPR in mind, I'm kind of leery about doing the manifold/HFM/Software without the upgraded FPR. But I've also heard that some feel it's unnecessary.

Have any of you gone down this road before? Do you have any real world advice you can give me?

Thanks,

Trayson

[Blue330i2006]

Personally I would go with what Dinan recommends. You want ease of install and reliability correct?

[trayson]

Personally I would go with what Dinan recommends. You want ease of install and reliability correct?

Sort of.

Dinan's "kit" that they sell for the HFM consists of a 3.5" HFM and a 4-bar FPR.

Dinan's kit costs $1100. No joke.

I can get a new Euro 3.5" HFM for $140 shipped. And a FPR shouldn't cost THAT much... Maybe $75 to $150 tops would be fair IMO. So, there's no way I'm paying $1100 for $200 to $300 of stuff just to have them put a Dinan Sticker on it for me.

I guess the problem comes in that I haven't really heard of a place that sells a stand along modified FPR, and Dinan of course isn't going to sell theirs seperately (or if they do, they're going to try and charge $500 or something ridiculous for it).

So, that's where I'm at. I am leaning towards getting a 4-bar FPR from somewhere IF it's really going to make the difference. I had a conversation w/ Flood and he said it might not be necessary... (and that guy typically knows his stuff)

[DakarE36]

Currently have have the following on my E36 M3 (s52)

• Dinan CAI
• Dinan TB
• Dinan Software

My plans for the future include:

• M50 manifold
• Euro 3.5" HFM
• Ungraded Dinan Software (stage 5)

This is what Dinan says about their stage 5 software:


Now, I know that the M50 and Euro HFM are basically the same stuff that would be accomodated by a Dinan Stage 5 kit with the exception that Dinan includes a 4-Bar (rising rate) Fuel Pressure Regulator. And I haven't found a great source of aftermarket FPR's.

Since the Dinan software was written with the upgraded FPR in mind, I'm kind of leery about doing the manifold/HFM/Software without the upgraded FPR. But I've also heard that some feel it's unnecessary.

Have any of you gone down this road before? Do you have any real world advice you can give me?

Thanks,

Trayson

Hey Trayson. The Dinan FPR is actually just a slightly modified Bosch 3.5BAR unit which. It is totally unnecessary on stage 5 cars as long as your fuel pump isn't ancient, and your fuel filter has been replaced in the last few years.

[trayson]

Hey Trayson. The Dinan FPR is actually just a slightly modified Bosch 3.5BAR unit which. It is totally unnecessary on stage 5 cars as long as your fuel pump isn't ancient, and your fuel filter has been replaced in the last few years.

Ah ha... Well, I have a fuel filter sitting in my garage right now. I'll have to email the previous owner about the fuel pump to see if he ever did that... Car's at around 105k miles right now BTW...

[DakarE36]

Ah ha... Well, I have a fuel filter sitting in my garage right now. I'll have to email the previous owner about the fuel pump to see if he ever did that... Car's at around 105k miles right now BTW...

105k just getting broken in :p

You should be good to go without the FPR. Dinan stage 4 and 5 software is EXCELLENT. HAve fun!

[trayson]

105k just getting broken in :p

You should be good to go without the FPR. Dinan stage 4 and 5 software is EXCELLENT. HAve fun!

Man, you're getting me excited! I've had the M50 Mani sitting in my garage since BEFORE I got the M3...

I keep looking at these new Euro 540 HFM's on Ebay for $140 shipped...
(which I'm hoping are the ones that will plug directly into my connector)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=390038814332

I've already talked to Ty, and he said Rassmussen would bump me up to the appropriate software level by paying the difference in price (2 bumps up to stage 5 would be another $200)...

So, it's something that's getting more and more temping... Probably pull the trigger on it all when I finally sell the 328i cabrio...


I hope you know that driving to/from Stevens with all you guys didn't help my mod addiction AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!! (although it felt pretty damn good that when we were going UP the hills that I was able to keep up with the 335i in front of me and had a tiny bit left over at a couple sections). But Damn you FI guys for making me feel inferior!!!

But, if I do this, it will be a nice improvement... I put down 218 to the wheels (with my 19x9.5's on) at Horsepower Ranch using UBER worn plugs... I'd love to see what happens if I can get all this done...

[DakarE36]

Man, you're getting me excited! I've had the M50 Mani sitting in my garage since BEFORE I got the M3...

I keep looking at these new Euro 540 HFM's on Ebay for $140 shipped...
(which I'm hoping are the ones that will plug directly into my connector)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...m=390038814332

I've already talked to Ty, and he said Rassmussen would bump me up to the appropriate software level by paying the difference in price (2 bumps up to stage 5 would be another $200)...

So, it's something that's getting more and more temping... Probably pull the trigger on it all when I finally sell the 328i cabrio...


I hope you know that driving to/from Stevens with all you guys didn't help my mod addiction AT ALL!!!!!!!!!!! (although it felt pretty damn good that when we were going UP the hills that I was able to keep up with the 335i in front of me and had a tiny bit left over at a couple sections). But Damn you FI guys for making me feel inferior!!!

But, if I do this, it will be a nice improvement... I put down 218 to the wheels (with my 19x9.5's on) at Horsepower Ranch using UBER worn plugs... I'd love to see what happens if I can get all this done...

bummer you didn't mention plugs sooner. I've got 6 brand new BKR6E's sitting in the garage that I can't use with the turbo.

With 3.5" Dinan intake, 540/Euro HFM, exhaust, pulleys, m50 manifold, asc delete, and dinan stg 4 or 5, you can easily expect to see 235-240rwhp. With a set of those $150 ebay headers and a track pipe, I think 245-250rwhp rwhp is possible on a healthy motor. That's cam kit territory without the ridiculous price. If your oil pump nut has been welded or safety wired, I highly suggest you pickup the URI crank pulley from Flood. It is an incredible mod that I ran on my car for a couple years.

[trayson]

bummer you didn't mention plugs sooner. I've got 6 brand new BKR6E's sitting in the garage that I can't use with the turbo.

With 3.5" Dinan intake, 540/Euro HFM, exhaust, pulleys, m50 manifold, asc delete, and dinan stg 4 or 5, you can easily expect to see 235-240rwhp. With a set of those $150 ebay headers and a track pipe, I think 245-250rwhp rwhp is possible on a healthy motor. That's cam kit territory without the ridiculous price. If your oil pump nut has been welded or safety wired, I highly suggest you pickup the URI crank pulley from Flood. It is an incredible mod that I ran on my car for a couple years.

Well, I'm not 100% sold on the ASC delete. It actually kept my butt on the road during our nasty snowstorm when I decided that I drove a "Snow-Vertible". (the Dunlop wintersport M3's of course had a lot to do with that too!)



hmmm... Never considered a track pipe... Not sure if I'd feel guilty about not running a cat...

[DakarE36]

Well, I'm not 100% sold on the ASC delete. It actually kept my butt on the road during our nasty snowstorm when I decided that I drove a "Snow-Vertible". (the Dunlop wintersport M3's of course had a lot to do with that too!)


hmmm... Never considered a track pipe... Not sure if I'd feel guilty about not running a cat...

105k OBD2 cats aren't that restrictive so you're probably fine.

ASC is a bitch in the snow. I always had to turn it off in bad weather...as do most E36 owners. Driving is snow requires smooth throttle and brake inputs--ASC likes to slam the ASC throttle body closed and stab the brakes--NO THANK YOU.

[trayson]

105k OBD2 cats aren't that restrictive so you're probably fine.

ASC is a bitch in the snow. I always had to turn it off in bad weather...as do most E36 owners. Driving is snow requires smooth throttle and brake inputs--ASC likes to slam the ASC throttle body closed and stab the brakes--NO THANK YOU.

Well, it would save me from having to remove my wheels and clean my Wheel Speed Sensors once a year because of my Axix ultimate pads...

Whose stupid idea was it to make wheel speed sensors that get gummed up with all the metal residue of your brake dust?!?!?


What kind of gain will an ASC delete give?

[DakarE36]

Well, it would save me from having to remove my wheels and clean my Wheel Speed Sensors once a year because of my Axix ultimate pads...

Whose stupid idea was it to make wheel speed sensors that get gummed up with all the metal residue of your brake dust?!?!?


What kind of gain will an ASC delete give?

ASC throttle boddy is smaller than 3". the 3.5" intake and 3.5" HFM are restricted by it. I did my ASC delete on my old car in the Home Depot parking lot. Immediate change in throttle response. Very good mod.

[BugsB]

ASC throttle boddy is smaller than 3". the 3.5" intake and 3.5" HFM are restricted by it. I did my ASC delete on my old car in the Home Depot parking lot. Immediate change in throttle response. Very good mod.

You got me interested in dropping the ASC throttle body, what all do you need to do it?

[DakarE36]

You got me interested in dropping the ASC throttle body, what all do you need to do it?

Intake elbow from a 1998 M Roadster or Flood can make you something *much* better for a reasonable price.

[SiGmA]

The main TB is something like 60mm, so you still are hitting a big restriction.. IMO pull the ASC out, that **** scares me. I trust my own instincts far more than ASC.

Are you sure the Dinan tune is for a 'euro hfm'? You don't want to guess at the hfm, it must be correct or you're screwed and your motor won't run correctly.

Also, I would advise not running an aftermarket crank wheel. S52's have harmonic issues as it is...

[trayson]

The main TB is something like 60mm, so you still are hitting a big restriction.. IMO pull the ASC out, that **** scares me. I trust my own instincts far more than ASC.

Are you sure the Dinan tune is for a 'euro hfm'? You don't want to guess at the hfm, it must be correct or you're screwed and your motor won't run correctly.

Also, I would advise not running an aftermarket crank wheel. S52's have harmonic issues as it is...

I'm running the Dinan TB...

I guess I'll have to look into it a bit more on the HFM. Maybe another phone call to Dinan is in order...

Yeah, I've read the article on the harmonics w/ pulley kits...

[DakarE36]

Roman, the harmonics issue effects the oil pump nut. Re-read my post where I stated it needs to be secured before running crank pulley. Aside from that, there are no other issues with crank pulley.

[trayson]

^^^^^^^^^ that looks nice, but you let me in on one of your secrets and I think that the BLUE would look way better in my Estoril Engine bay!

[trayson]

Are you sure the Dinan tune is for a 'euro hfm'? You don't want to guess at the hfm, it must be correct or you're screwed and your motor won't run correctly.

I just got off the phone with a tech at Dinan... While of course they can't "encourage" you to run something other than their parts, he pretty much said that it should work fine. Of course he had to disclaim it as they haven't "tested" the Euro HFM, but he did mention that their HFM retains the stock airflow meter (leading me to think that the biggest difference is the increase in the housing to 3.5"????).

I guess the only way I'll know for sure is to try it or find someone else that's likewise tried it. But I feel pretty confident that Dinan is likely to have used the Euro HFM part w/ a Dinan Sticker on it... I suppose worst case would be that I try to run the Euro and the results aren't what I'd hoped for and I have to turn around and attempt to source a Dinan part. But I kind of doubt that'll happen...

[DakarE36]

I just got off the phone with a tech at Dinan... While of course they can't "encourage" you to run something other than their parts, he pretty much said that it should work fine. Of course he had to disclaim it as they haven't "tested" the Euro HFM, but he did mention that their HFM retains the stock airflow meter (leading me to think that the biggest difference is the increase in the housing to 3.5"????).

I guess the only way I'll know for sure is to try it or find someone else that's likewise tried it. But I feel pretty confident that Dinan is likely to have used the Euro HFM part w/ a Dinan Sticker on it... I suppose worst case would be that I try to run the Euro and the results aren't what I'd hoped for and I have to turn around and attempt to source a Dinan part. But I kind of doubt that'll happen...

540/Euro hfm are the same aside from the plug which can be filed down to fit in most cases (as was my case on my '98 M3 which I used the HFM from a 540), or simply plug in an adapter.

bottom line: It'll work fine. They are the same sensor measuring 0-5v within a 3.5" housing.

[trayson]

540/Euro hfm are the same aside from the plug which can be filed down to fit in most cases (as was my case on my '98 M3 which I used the HFM from a 540), or simply plug in an adapter.

bottom line: It'll work fine. They are the same sensor measuring 0-5v within a 3.5" housing.

Right, I guess the question that sigma had brought us was "is the 540/Euro the same versus the DINAN unit? I know many have compared 540 to Euro to Stock; but Sigma was wondering a definitive answer as to whether the abovementioned were the same as the Dinan; and thus would work perfectly with the Dinan stage 5 software...

It's definitely a valid question. I'm optimistic that Dinan used either the Euro or the 540 as the basis for their part...

[Tucked M3]

Thx for the plug. I didn't intend to sell them, but I can certainly make them for other people if there is interest. I just think the bimmerworld boot is ridiculously priced.

i would be interested in one of these as well. i just got a new oem one since the old one was cracked but it only cost me $30 so i could care less about replacing it

[DakarE36]

Right, I guess the question that sigma had brought us was "is the 540/Euro the same versus the DINAN unit? I know many have compared 540 to Euro to Stock; but Sigma was wondering a definitive answer as to whether the abovementioned were the same as the Dinan; and thus would work perfectly with the Dinan stage 5 software...

It's definitely a valid question. I'm optimistic that Dinan used either the Euro or the 540 as the basis for their part...

Yes, Dinan used the Bosch Euro/540 part for their HFM, just like they used the Bosch 3.5BAR FPR and modified internally to 4BAR. There is no difference between Dinan's HFM and the Euro/540 unit.

On some of Dinan's super old supercharger kits, they used a turbotronics to scale the 3.0" HFM voltage down to half-ass tune for boost--this was before they started using the larger 3.5" housing on their kits.

[trayson]

Yes, Dinan used the Bosch Euro/540 part for their HFM, just like they used the Bosch 3.5BAR FPR and modified internally to 4BAR. There is no difference between Dinan's HFM and the Euro/540 unit.

On some of Dinan's super old supercharger kits, they used a turbotronics to scale the 3.0" HFM voltage down to half-ass tune for boost--this was before they started using the larger 3.5" housing on their kits.

Sounds like I'm getting a lot of research done on this thread... I feel like I've got about all the loose ends tied up!

Now I just need to do a few things:

1. sell my damn 328i so I can feel like I have an excuse to blow some money on mods!
2. scrape up the rest of the parts I need.
3. have a M50/Euro HFM install party with lots of Beer to offer up to people that are willing to help me!!!
4. Go over to Rassmussen and have them install Dinan Stage 5
5. Go back to Horsepower Ranch and throw the vert on the Dyno and see how happy I get!
6. OOPS, I almost forgot #6: Go back and go on MOAR DRIVES with the FI guys! PPPPPPppppppppsssssssssssssssssssttttttttttttttt!! ! LOL

[m3steve]

^^^^^^^^^ that looks nice, but you let me in on one of your secrets and I think that the BLUE would look way better in my Estoril Engine bay!

i would disagree with the above statement. Color matching rubber boots to your car color is a euronono in my humble opinion.... but its your car