Becker/BMW Indianapolis meets Indianapolis Pro

[revtor]

Update: And now I've done my modified BMW Indianapolis Pro as well... Originally I used a BE7969 (BMW Indianapolis) but because I wanted to use the Becker Remote Kit I replaced the base unit with a Becker BE795x and lost the BMW startup logo. Here's what the startup logo of the Becker BE795x looks like:



...and an hour later:



My mod is finally done!

[toomanyparts]

Perfect outcome. Nice work!

[Zohar]

software archeology rocks.

[puntoloco]

Update: And now I've done my modified BMW Indianapolis Pro as well... Originally I used a BE7969 (BMW Indianapolis) but because I wanted to use the Becker Remote Kit I replaced the base unit with a Becker BE795x and lost the BMW startup logo. Here's what the startup logo of the Becker BE795x looks like:



...and an hour later:



My mod is finally done!

Completely awesome!! Best becker unit in the world for sure!! nearly 7 years of developing or more!! It's totally amazing what old freaks can do with / for their hobbies / toys.

But it is not finally done!! there is something you could do which is quite easy!! if its a pro you should replace the tp button with the tel one. It is quite easy to do if you have the replace button. If you want to do it and don't know how pm me or better govillard, he will guide you

[Fatandre]

The one with Bluetooth, can you play music through it?

[revtor]

But it is not finally done!! there is something you could do which is quite easy!! if its a pro you should replace the tp button with the tel one. It is quite easy to do if you have the replace button.

I've thought about that when I replaced the BE7969 with the BE795x, but the TEL button on the Indianapolis Pro still controls the RDS traffic programme (TP). It's now just shared with the telephone functionality.

Personally I do find the bluetooth telephone integration one of the biggest disappointments of the Indianapolis Pro. There's no integration with the cell phone's contact list and there's not even a way to store a named contact list in the Indianapolis Pro. You never know who an incoming call is from and for outgoing calls you have to dial the number yourself (they call that handsfree?). I tried it once, disliked it, and went back to the original BMW mobile phone. It may be 20+ years old but it's still working great (although its future is very uncertain because some European countries have started upgrading the 900 MHz 2G network to 3G for mobile Internet which is incompatible with the BMW mobile phone).

The one with Bluetooth, can you play music through it?

No.

[puntoloco]

No.

About it... Talking to a friend, said me that it could be done with an android app, simulating its a call to play music and other mobile sounds like gps, speedcameras or whatever... But probably in mono sound not stereo... I tried to convince him to do it but he doesnt own a pro (he has a 7969) and it is very busy...

I dont know any about making apps but if someone does...

Dont know why he told me that it just could be done under android not with ios...

[essere forte!]

Hallo revtor,
if its possible contakt me by PN
I have wrote you but I don't know if it works.
Grüsse

[MParallel]

Just realized this got an update. That is fantastic work Revtor!

Now, would it be too much to ask to "hack" the Becker BE2455 and make it display CD/ID3 text. That's about my biggest wish. I'd even gladly pay you for it.

Would a startup logo even be an option? Since from stock there is none, so my guess is no.

p.s. what does the model you have now improve over your previous BMW Indianpolis?


Edit: oops, was a little too fast in my enthusiasm.... Credit to Puntoloco for starting all this.

Rector: I now read "I used to have a BMW Indianapolis in my car but later replaced the base unit with that of a Becker Indianapolis Pro (BE 795x) in order to be able to use the Becker Remote Kit (mp3 player connectivity). Sadly I lost the BMW logo in the process and I would like to get it back."

If that is the only reason, why not use an aftermarket interface on the CDC output? This would have kept your BMW specific version, without all the extra troubles.

[revtor]

Now, would it be too much to ask to "hack" the Becker BE2455 and make it display CD/ID3 text.

There's quite a difference between locating and changing image data in an EEPROM and changing application code in a microcontroller. It's quite safe to assume that only Becker can make this happen - if even possible. In other words, forget about it...

If that is the only reason, why not use an aftermarket interface on the CDC output? This would have kept your BMW specific version, without all the extra troubles.

The Indianapolis suffers from the same flaw as your BE2455: No CD-Text support over the CD changer interface.

I really like the Becker Remote Kit. Sure, it works only with Apple iPods, but it works really well.

[MParallel]

There's quite a difference between locating and changing image data in an EEPROM and changing application code in a microcontroller. It's quite safe to assume that only Becker can make this happen - if even possible. In other words, forget about it...
...


The Indianapolis suffers from the same flaw as your BE2455: No CD-Text support over the CD changer interface.

I really like the Becker Remote Kit. Sure, it works only with Apple iPods, but it works really well.

My understandings of electronics only goes so far. Oh well that's too bad then. I thought maybe it was a similar proces. I will forget about it and life (live) with it.

I guess it's good that the OEM carphone no longer works over here, as the CD43 beautifully displays the names/numbers of the people stored on the SIMcard...
There could be hope in the OpenOBC project, to make it show ibus data.

Just so I understand correctly...the Indianpolis Pro does show text when using their Remote Kit?

[revtor]

Just so I understand correctly...the Indianpolis Pro does show text when using their Remote Kit?

Yes, see this picture I posted earlier in the thread. The Remote Kit integrates in the menu system of the head unit so operation is very easy. Navigation through the songs, albums, playlists and folders is lightning fast.

There is one drawback: Normally when the Becker head unit is switched on it resumes playback from the last selected source (radio, cd, cd changer, aux). The Becker Remote Kit however needs a few seconds to initialize the iPod and that seems to break this functionality. The head unit always defaults to radio which is a bit annoying. You can't have everything I guess. I've been thinking about building a small module which fakes a press on the [CD] button a few seconds after startup but haven't gotten to it yet...

[MParallel]

That is sweet. Now I have another brainfart...since it's a Becker made unit and so is the BE2455...would the Remote Kit work on that.

Oh no wait, it works through BT wasn't it. That's why you got the pro model. I could get a BT kit for the BE2455, but that is eventually...connected to the CDC conector.

Djeez, if Blaupunkt integrated CD text/ID3 on their CD43, surely Becker could. The Professional RDS was BMW highest offering and it was mega expensive in its day (now again is too) and they ommit stuff like this. In CD mode it really does hardly anything. Not even the song duration/played time/playtime left. Just CD x, Track xx.

Sorry for the rant, it's just frustrating as hell. Again, I hope the OpenOBC will change this.

[revtor]

MParallel: The Becker Remote Kit does not use bluetooth. It hooks up to the head unit via the CD changer interface and uses a Becker proprietary protocol. The Remote Kit works only with Becker units from the Indianapolis generation as the head unit needs support for the device (it integrates in the head unit's menu system).

[MParallel]

Hmm ok. I assumed it used BT cause you had to upgrade to the Pro, which is only a BT upgade from what I read and the device is called Remote Unit. So everything pointed to BT data transmission.

Would've been nice, but the Indianpolis is so much newer then BE2455.

Think I asked before, but regarding the oem carphone...any change this can be made to quad band? I've seen some Andrino simcard stuff with quadband S/E capabilities.

[revtor]

Think I asked before, but regarding the oem carphone...any change this can be made to quad band? I've seen some Andrino simcard stuff with quadband S/E capabilities.

There's no "trick" to turn a single-band GSM into a multi-band GSM. You will need a multi-band GSM module but since BMW never had one for the handsets in our cars there isn't a plug-and-play solution.

If you have a lot of time you can analyse the data protocol between handset and GSM module. Then, if you have even more time you can build a microcontroller-based GSM module that is a drop in replacement. So, yes, it is possible but it's quite a challenge. You can probably take the openOBC project as a reference to get an idea how long it takes to develop something like this.

[MParallel]

Yeah definitely. Never expected there to be some plug & play solution.

Who needo 4G transfer speed when there are nice OEM carphones out there. And the 900 is such a good frequency.

smh.

[Jo3y25]

Hello,

First of all, thank you for sharing this topic and your software, this is just amazing !
Unfortunately for people here, I do not own a BMW but another german car (with a star in front of it ...). And I did not find any "presentation" topic so excuse me for introducing me here. I hope some of you will be able to help me...

I have an Indianapolis pro too that I bought on ebay before having my actual car. Unfortunately I didn't tested it (I always supposed it worked).
When I discovered your topic, I directly tried to do the same. I went on the spanish forum to see more pictures and I took my soldering tool to make it.

I have been able to unsolder the chip, read it, change the "picture" with revtor's soft (thanks a lot !) and then re-solder it properly (I tested it with the multimeter, connections seemed ok).

Unfortunately when I plug this becker in my car, nothing happens . It seems to be no power at all . I have the original radio in my car that is working but with the wrong FM frequency that's why I wanted an aftermarket radio (so I know there is current in the wires).

Do you know if the Indianapolis pro is only working with bmw car? or do you have any ideas about components I have to check? I am wondering if this soldered chip could provokes that kind of problem, that's why I am asking here. Maybe you already faced this pb?

Thanks guys !

[revtor]

The Becker Indianapolis (Pro) was used by BMW, Ford, KIA,... and should work with any car that supports single DIN units. Not all cars may provide signals like speed and reverse on the radio harness, but those are optional anyways. For basic functionality the only thing you need is the 12 V power supply.

Your problem is that you don't know whether the headunit was working before the changes...

Govillard (bmwfaq.com) had one headunit on which reprogramming the EEPROM went wrong. I didn't follow up so I don't know what exactly was wrong, but presumably the EEPROM content was corrupted or the EEPROM damaged. The result was a head unit which would turn on but immediately turn off again. So that's clearly different from your observations (no sign of life). Maybe the headunit simply does not get power?

If you are using an adapter to hook up the Indianapolis to the Mercedes radio harness, start by checking whether the adapter provides power to the right pins:

• A4: permanent 12 V
• A7: switched 12 V
• A8: ground

To power up the headunit you only need A4 and A8.

If the adapter is fine, check the 10 A fuse at the back of the head unit.

[Jo3y25]

Thank you for the help !!
Yes it seems Govillard's problem is slightly different than mine... but also very interesting to note.
I don't use any adapter, it's like "plug and play".

Before posting here, I tried to catch if the wiring harness was the same, so I just checked with my multimeter the connector.

on A4 I have 11,7V (maybe not enough?)
on A7 I have nothing if my key is not in 2nd position (engine not started but engine check lights are on): If 2nd position, then I have 11,7V
on A8 I take the ground

I have bought another connector and an external power supply so I will be able to put only those 3 wire and test it at home...
The fuse is "ok" I switched the 2 fuses from my old radio to this becker and the result is the same. The old one is working whereas the becker is down so the fuse should be ok.

Another thing: when I look at the back of the becker, close to A1, I see a little extra "push" pin which goes directly to the motherboard, like if it would have taken the ground directly on the connector (but the connector is in plastic, right? so it connects to nothing...), do you know what is this?

I guess if nothing is working that I am gonna change the EEPROM chip to be sure it's not the problem.

[revtor]

on A4 I have 11,7V (maybe not enough?)
on A7 I have nothing if my key is not in 2nd position (engine not started but engine check lights are on): If 2nd position, then I have 11,7V
on A8 I take the ground

That should be fine. Don't worry about the voltage. The Indianapolis works with voltages as low as 9 V.

Another thing: when I look at the back of the becker, close to A1, I see a little extra "push" pin which goes directly to the motherboard, like if it would have taken the ground directly on the connector (but the connector is in plastic, right? so it connects to nothing...), do you know what is this?

I have no idea what you are talking about. Can you make a picture?

[Jo3y25]

Here is the picture:
IMG_20170208_212120.jpg
and another to see where it "goes":
IMG_20170208_212038.jpg

I also checked the GND on the little screen and I was wondering if it's normal that one connector is not linked to the GND whereas it is in front of it ?
Upper green circles are connected to the GND, so when the screen is closed, bottom green circles are connected to the GND
But for the red circles, the upper circle is connected to the GND but the bottom red circle is not...

IMG_20170208_213006.jpg

Thanks a lot for your help ...

[revtor]

Jo3y25: I'm still not sure what "push pin" you refer to. Are you referring to the 2-pin connector directly left from the ISO A block? That's the microphone connector.

I also checked the GND on the little screen and I was wondering if it's normal that one connector is not linked to the GND whereas it is in front of it ?
Upper green circles are connected to the GND, so when the screen is closed, bottom green circles are connected to the GND
But for the red circles, the upper circle is connected to the GND but the bottom red circle is not...

It's the same with my my units.

If you have a multimeter, here are a few power observations (use the amps range - not milliamps - and put the meter in series). This is from a plain Indianapolis but I don't think the Pro will differ much.

• With the removable front off (or fold open), apply power over pins A4 and A8. After a short peak the current fluctuates around 0.4 A and 0.5 A, then settles to less than 0.01 A after 10 seconds
• Insert or close the removable front. The current draw jumps up to 0.4 A for about 3-4 seconds before falling back to less than 0.01 A
• 3-4 seconds after closing the front, the alarm LED (the dummy button between [TEL] and [CD]) starts flashing with an interval of approximately 1 second
• Push any button on the removable front (thus not the rotary knobs or the power button). The current jumps up to 0.4 A for about 4 seconds, then drops back to less than 0.01 A
• Push the [ON] button to switch on the head unit. In about 2 seconds the current draw increases to approximately 1 A
• Push the [ON] button again to turn off the head unit. The current decreases in a few steps from 1 A to less than 0.01 A in about 15 seconds

[revtor]

Jo3y25: Today I did some more experiments on a broken BE7969 BMW Indianapolis. Broken because the audio amplifier doesn't work but it is otherwise fully functional. I tested with only the mainboard (no cd player mechanism installed, nor the front with rotary knobs) and a removable front taped to it. This way I had quick access to the EEPROM. Because I didn't have the [ON] button in my setup I used the A7 input to turn the head unit on and off (A7 is normally used to turn the head unit on and off automatically with the ignition).

A first observation was that the idle current was just over 0.02 A instead of the less than 0.01 A of the other head unit I tested yesterday. Not sure that has to do with revision differences or the fact that part of the circuit was not present, but take it into account when you test yours.

For the rest everything was pretty much in the same ballpark as measured on the other head unit.

A more important observation was when I desoldered the EEPROM... After applying power the current draw quickly settled for approximately 0.35 A. Even after minutes it still had not dropped to the normal 0.01-0.02 A idle current. That's something you should be able to measure easily. Also the alarm LED did not flash. Using A7 to turn on the head unit gave no reaction at all (not visually and not in the current draw). Pressing buttons on the removable front did not change the current draw either.

That looks very similar to your symptoms (you should confirm the current draws). So there's a good chance your problem is with the EEPROM. Maybe it got damaged or was not correctly resoldered?

[Jo3y25]

Some update after having read your two last posts...
I could measure the current with A8 + A4 and I am ALWAYS at 0,41 Amps...

I tried to push the on button, nothing, wait for 1 min the current to drop, nothing, screen open or closed, nothing, always at 0,41A.

It seems very similair to your EEPROM desoldered. I used a very thin "hot gun" from dremel to solder it, maybe I just blown the chip... I will try to change it tomorrow.
What do you think?

Thanks for having done some surgery tests on your becker ! I wouldn't bet on that for sure...