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Thread: Becker/BMW Indianapolis meets Indianapolis Pro

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by revtor View Post
    No personal experience, but I believe Timm has one.
    I have the Indianapolis with the red display - which matches quite good enough for me:



    I see that Robmarrs is selling these on Ebay with an MP3 interface (a loom that connects to the Aux IN with a 3.5mm jack on the other end). He currently has an Indianapolis Pro for sale:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BECKER-IND...item4179801f68
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaifanSC View Post
    Revtor, I know at the end you used a different front to keep with the BMW lighting, but your original Indianapolis Pro unit...which color did you use? I'm wondering if the red looks too out of place with the rest of the redish/orange BMW lighting.
    I used the BE7955 with blue display and red buttons. Surely the most hideous color combination, but then again I only needed it for the base unit. I never really compared the red button illumination against BMW orange and I certainly can't comment on the display color...

  3. #53
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    So Rev, you changed the color on the radio?

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    I have the Indianapolis with the red display - which matches quite good enough for me:



    I see that Robmarrs is selling these on Ebay with an MP3 interface (a loom that connects to the Aux IN with a 3.5mm jack on the other end). He currently has an Indianapolis Pro for sale:

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BECKER-IND...item4179801f68
    Any chance you can get a night shot of the indianapolis in your 8 Timm?
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  5. #55
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    Of course!



    From my ambient lights procedure:

    http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e31/E31_Amb...dification.htm
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timm View Post
    Of course!



    From my ambient lights procedure:

    http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e31/E31_Amb...dification.htm

    So that's the "Red" display? That seems to match quite well. I've stumbled upon other pictures where the "Red" display looks more like Ruby red instead of the orangy red for BMW's.
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  7. #57
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    So just we are sure.
    The Becker 7969 is the best upgrade and should be able to connect to a dice unit?

  8. #58
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    Amazing mod

    I haven't achieve that mod but I achieve somethings interesting probably never done or at least I havent found anything about achieving them...

    First is changing the start up logo... Anything can be drawn with a max resolution of 188x28 pixels...

    I have done three.

    first for a hiunday coupe
    088af72aa13b5eb9cd18ab85daa3c04f.jpg

    Second for my z3 coupe


    And the last just changing a Kia logo with the BMW one


    But can be done anything with that low resolution, for example a logo based on the engine cover


    - - - Updated - - -

    second mod is replacing the leds... It is a pitty work because there are a lot and they are very very tiny... But we manage to change a green one into bmw amber leds

    https://player.vimeo.com/video/160026374

    c229d5516ab54c86a009663229e1ca3c.jpg

    Another good thing is that the leds used are a bit brighter than the oem ones, so the screen light can be seen also during the day

    Here you can see a becker kia unit near to be a custom bmw one, after all the interior work we erase the small white kia logo


    - - - Updated - - -

    third mod is swapping buttons and covers (easy but you need two units) to have a totally looking bmw unit (start up logo, printed logo and illumination) but with the indianapolis pro benefits like bluetooth and a slightly better audio quality

    The photo shows my radio connect to my phone


    Next mod we are going to do is to adapt cheap universal microphones to work with beckers as the oem ones are very pricy.
    Last edited by puntoloco; 05-11-2016 at 07:32 AM.

  9. #59
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    That is amazing, puntoloco! Hats off to you!

    I'd love to get the BMW logo on a genuine Becker Indianapolis Pro. I've looked into changing the logo but got nowhere. Couldn't even figure out where exactly it was stored. Would you care to explain how you did it?

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by revtor View Post
    That is amazing, puntoloco! Hats off to you!

    I'd love to get the BMW logo on a genuine Becker Indianapolis Pro. I've looked into changing the logo but got nowhere. Couldn't even figure out where exactly it was stored. Would you care to explain how you did it?
    thank you revor

    But I just put enthusiasm on this and mange to involve a friend to achieve this. Basically I put the money for buying a lot of beckers... don't know how much right now but between 5 and 10... probably nearer to ten... Another z3 coupe owner and a friend did the weird part of opening them, soldering... basically the phisical part, and a friend of my friend which is a completely genius did the software part... So we are three involved, the brain, the hand and the silly that want to risk a lot of bucks.

    I going to make a resume, but you can read all the post about the transformation, but it is in spanish... http://www.bmwfaq.com/threads/primic...lizada.879714/

    first is to open the unit. then locate the chip where the logo is located.
    2df354c095e7cf9901d0979d12d8e543.jpg
    After this, the logo should be removed... Quite difficult part and with risk of damaging the unit... Actually we broke one unit, the chip could be replaced but the unit board is very very fragile... we did the things as right as possible so before doing this the

    In the next photo you can see how big this chip is... We used hot air to remove it
    5e52421dd6611df7b820eedcc24b2ce5.jpg

    One removed, it must be soldered to an ancient socket
    286b2c18359e1a983abc87fcbf448015.jpg

    Then read the eeprom and make a back up of it.
    the hex code is very difficult, here the genius manage to find where was located the logo, created a program (which I am not allowed to share) that translate the code into a paint.

    cba900164fd94c8b57f19580f6d658d8.jpg

    at frist we used a kia unit and manage to fing the part of the kia logo, which is very small... so without knowing if it will work we "broke" an indianapolis pro to read its big logo. After a lot of work we manage to get a 188x28 paintable area...

    8af4bb98a53898a9ed994aa8e8311dc6.jpg

    We draw a logo in paint, we did a lot until we decided which will be the first and final one... We knew the risk and hard work so we didnt want to brake anything or work just for testing... We draw it pixel by pixel and after that translated every pixel one by one into the hex code... We we got the code we wrote the eeprom with the new logo and then a very risky part... soldering the chip back to the board... With the heat we broke a board (goodbye 200 bucks), the hand part manage to fix it but with the heat after half an hour more os less the unit gets stuck and needs to be flashed again... but the second one with even better tools and more practicing works great.

    First logo worked but need some corrections

    - - - Updated - - -

    Attachment 572125

    Here is the video of the first start up, how proud I was about my friend, the hand.
    <iframe src="https://player.vimeo.com/video/157657109

    After this the brain work again in the program.

    After a few more tries and a few chips blown, they are cheap and if you have the back up can restore it, or if you dont you can restore it with the one of another eeprom, but the code and serial number will be the one from the code donor...
    Last edited by puntoloco; 05-11-2016 at 11:11 AM.

  11. #61
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    How is the sound from that becker?
    My friend had one installed and wasnt impressed comparing it to his Pioneer unit

  12. #62
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    -------------------------------------------------------------------

    After all of that the hand part decided that he wanted to try changing the leds... which are a lot.

    Attachment 572137

    After all money and time consuming he did two, one for my car, and one for his wife car, also we decided to did a few by demand at very cheap for the effort and time spent but that sounds pricy for the people that doesn't know how difficult and time consuming is this...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Can't believe it...

    few year ago before owning one I was very skeptical I think they dont worth the money. I changed the speakers, tried 4 radios, the blaupunkt cd original, a clarion, a sony and a pioneer. all with almost the same sound results... Bored about the bad looking of this colored units I bought a becker, just for stetic reasons... How impressed I was about the quality of this old radio that since then I have bought almost 10... The quality of the unit is out of doubt, it is not just the sound, the options, it has a lot of options not talking about gps or bluetooth which are features the new units or mobile phones do better, for example there are a lot of ways to show or order the radio stations, or the equalizer or it has an independent channel for the subwoofer...

    It seems like I work for becker, buy belive me before I had one I was always saying thay were a waste of money...

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatandre View Post
    How is the sound from that becker?
    My friend had one installed and wasnt impressed comparing it to his Pioneer unit
    Propably not nearly as goos as pioneer head units. Pioneer head units, expecially the premium models like the old dex-p88rs (current deh-80prs), are really good sounding units. I have compared these pioneer head units sound guality to pretty good home devices and these pioneers actually sound better than many of them!

    I believe that the goal with these beckers is to get a head unit wich looks OEM and has good features. If you are looking a good hi-fi sound these are not your choice but if you are looking for original looking unit with modern features then becker is your choice. Good thing is that you can add amplifers to your system with proper way and don't have to settle with hi-level inputs.
    Last edited by mikae31; 05-11-2016 at 01:26 PM.

  14. #64
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    Traffic Pro, Grand Prix, Indianapolis and Indianapolis Pro
    Which one of those would sound the best?

  15. #65
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    Great work puntoloco!

    I have the Indianapolis and it is far superior to the original head unit.
    Timm..2007 E64 650i Individual Sport..1999 E31 840ci Individual Sport..ex owner of 2000 E38 740..1999 E38 740i V8 M62..1998 E38 735i V8..1993 E32 730i V8..1988 E28 518i


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  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatandre View Post
    Traffic Pro, Grand Prix, Indianapolis and Indianapolis Pro
    Which one of those would sound the best?
    Traffic pro the old one is a bit worse. The new one is almost like a cascade so I assume is better

    Indianapolis vs indianapolis pro sounds equal, the difference is just de bt.

    Grandprix vs indianapolis both have the dame sound quality, the difference is because grand prix do not have gps

    Bmw indianapolis is a bit worse in sound because it dont have a separate vía for the subwoofer so if you dont have a subwoofer connected by its own should sound the same... But if you have it separated probably you wont notice unless your audition is very good. The thing is that Bmw asked for reducing the price of the unit... Quite curious kia is a totally indi pro without reducing quality...

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by puntoloco View Post
    But I just put enthusiasm on this and mange to involve a friend to achieve this. Basically I put the money for buying a lot of beckers... don't know how much right now but between 5 and 10... probably nearer to ten... Another z3 coupe owner and a friend did the weird part of opening them, soldering... basically the phisical part, and a friend of my friend which is a completely genius did the software part... So we are three involved, the brain, the hand and the silly that want to risk a lot of bucks.
    Kudos to you and your friends! I had already given up on changing the logo but your post gave me new inspiration.

    I going to make a resume, but you can read all the post about the transformation, but it is in spanish... http://www.bmwfaq.com/threads/primic...lizada.879714/
    Thanks for the link! Great information in there! Luckily we have Google Translate nowadays

    first is to open the unit. then locate the chip where the logo is located.
    After this, the logo should be removed... Quite difficult part and with risk of damaging the unit... Actually we broke one unit, the chip could be replaced but the unit board is very very fragile...
    So the logo is in the 24C64 EEPROM after all... I had looked at a downloaded bin before but couldn't find a recognizable a pattern. Maybe the Becker logo wasn't the best one to start with.

    Just wondering... Instead of desoldering the 24C64, have you considered in-circuit programming? I'm not sure the circuit allows for this but the 24C64 definitely supports it. You may have a hard time finding or fabricating a test clip that works on that tiny package, though.

    Then read the eeprom and make a back up of it.
    the hex code is very difficult, here the genius manage to find where was located the logo, created a program (which I am not allowed to share) that translate the code into a paint.
    at frist we used a kia unit and manage to fing the part of the kia logo, which is very small... so without knowing if it will work we "broke" an indianapolis pro to read its big logo. After a lot of work we manage to get a 188x28 paintable area...
    I just wrote my own tool



    The logo is from a downloaded bin (BE 7802).

    My tool does not have editing capabilities, yet, but I'm not really interested in custom logos. I just want to extract the "BMW" logo from a BMW Indianapolis (BE 7969) and put it in my Becker Indianapolis Pro (BE 795x). I used to have a BMW Indianapolis in my car but later replaced the base unit with that of a Becker Indianapolis Pro (BE 795x) in order to be able to use the Becker Remote Kit (mp3 player connectivity). Sadly I lost the BMW logo in the process and I would like to get it back.
    Last edited by revtor; 06-06-2023 at 01:47 PM.

  18. #68
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    Great work, thanks for posting.
    Would it be possible to change the screen color so when radio is OFF to show black instead of gray?

  19. #69
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    M3C: The screen color when switched off comes from the reflective film on the back of the display and the orientation of the polarizing filters on the display. In other words, it's a physical property and cannot be changed without replacing the polarizing filter(s). If you have two polarizing filters, like in an LCD display, you can change the polarity between positive (reflective background) and negative (dark background) by rotating one of both filters 90°. That's exactly what I tried in my first mod. I started off from a stock BMW Indianapolis (BE 7969), pulled off the top polarizing filter, and replaced it with a new one. Note that the original filter is destroyed during removal so there's no way back if you don't like the new filter! The filter is also glued quite firmly to the display, so breaking the glass during removal is a risk!



    Original LCD display after disassembly of the removable faceplate.



    Top polarizing filter removed. You can also see the new sheet of polarizing film from which the new filter will be cut. If you want a negative display you have to lay the sheet on the display, rotate it until you get the maximum darkening effect, cut out the display size and finally glue it the display. The PF-AG/HC polarizing film I used from comes with adhesive backing and anti-glare/scratch front, just like the original.



    Cut out and ready to be glued. You can already clearly see the polarizing effect where it lies on the display.



    First tests look very promising, but...



    ... as soon as light falls on the display the background gets a blue cast. In bright light it gets really annoyingly blue.



    This is the result of the new polarizing filter not having a truly neutral polarizing effect. At the maximum polarizing effect some light frequencies are being darkened more than others resulting in a non-black color. Maybe better polarizing film can be purchased, but you'll only know after applying the film and testing. In addition, the backlight of the Indianapolis was never designed for use with a negative display. Due to their low average reflectivity negative displays require much brighter backlights and the Indianapolis' backlight is just too dim in bright light.

    So after the initial euphoria I found the blueish display to look just out of place in my car as the original grayish display. Back to the drawing board...

    In my second attempt I took a completely different approach. While the Indianapolis never came with a negative display from the factory, its predecessor, the Traffic Pro, did.



    After experimenting I found that the Traffic Pro's removable faceplate worked on the Indianapolis. So what I did was replacing the display PCB in the Indianapolis faceplate with that of the Traffic Pro. Due to differences in the button illumination and even button locations this required quite a few modifications, but the result worked out very well as you can see:



    It's not just close... It's a perfect match with the other displays in the car! Not surprisingly of course because the display comes from a BMW Traffic Pro.

    It's a real shame BMW didn't ask Becker to manufacture the BMW-branded Indianapolis with a negative display like its predecessor (in fact they even asked to omit stuff from the BMW Indianapolis - cheap bastards). That would have the been the head unit to get.
    Last edited by revtor; 06-06-2023 at 01:48 PM.

  20. #70
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    We tried something similar

    We tried soldering the chip to the socket while still soldered to the motherboard. Maybe we did something wrong but it did not work. Why is something I just cant tell but the hand and the brain expected that.

  21. #71
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    puntoloco: Bummer... I was really hoping on in-circuit programming because I'm not looking forward to desoldering that EEPROM.

  22. #72
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    Do not desist, maybe we did something wrong...

    Related with what you say "Due to their low average reflectivity negative displays require much brighter backlights and the Indianapolis' backlight is just too dim in bright light."

    The leds we used to replace the stock ones are the same colour as the bmw ones but brighter. With them the screen is much more readable. I took some photos with my reflex camera in manual mode to compare the difference in bright. In the photos the color do not seem the same, but trully it is.

    The bright one with our leds changed


    The stock one which is less brighter



    I also change just the removable screen to see the difference at the same time, notice the light of the rounds buttons and on one vs the rest of the buttons.





    As I said the brighter leds makes the screen look like it is a better screen with more contrast and way better to read things.

    When I bought a becker 7969 I was planning to keep its front face stock just with the tp button changed installed in the indi pro kia with the custom logo, but since I realized the leds we changed are better I changed my mind and made a fully frankenstein becker to have the best parts.

    Now I have the internals of a kia indi pro with custom logo, with the front case of bmw so it has the bmw logo printed instead of becker indianapolis pro, with a tel button insted of the tp, and the internals of the front face are the ones of the kia but with the green leds replaced with bmw amber leds.
    Last edited by puntoloco; 05-12-2016 at 04:19 AM.

  23. #73
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    I have a question maybe you guys can solve it...

    As far as I know there are no maps for USA so the gps is completely useless in USA unless some mode is done... (We manage to update the cascade CF with up to date maps and not less important the police radar database so maybe possible to do something similar with the indianapolis ones)

    But will the radio am & fm work well? or there is any more problems when using this radios in the USA??

    Thank you

  24. #74
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    puntoloco: Since the Becker Indianapolis (and derivatives) was never available for the US market it lacks some US-specific features. Apart from no US navigation maps, the AM radio will not work very well because Europe uses 9 kHz band spacing whereas the US uses 10 kHz intervals. FM radio will work fine although the audio quality suffers a bit because of different pre-emphasis between Europe and the US. I'm not sure about RDS though (station name instead of frequency and station name abbreviations for the soft keys instead of numbers).

  25. #75
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    In the meantime I managed to read the EEPROM contents in-system (no desoldering) but I'm still unable to program it that way. There seems to be something on the PCB that interferes... I did not want to spend more time on it so I decided to desolder the EEPROM partially. I inserted a 26 AWG wire underneath pins 1 to 4 and applied heat to the pins with a chisel tip while gently pulling the wire. This way I managed to lift pins 1 to 4 from the PCB without damage. Pins 1 to 4 are all connected to ground so even if the PCB would get damaged in the process, it's very easy to repair. Because the EEPROM's ground is now physically disconnected from the rest of the device, it was now possible to apply power for in-system programming without interference from other chips on the PCB.

    For more detailed instructions refer to post #119 (link).

    I have not yet changed the logo on my modified BMW Indianapolis Pro but I experimented a bit with one of my donor devices:



    Success!

    In order to change the logo I wrote a small application that can read the EEPROM binary dump and replace the logo in there - the Becker Logo Editor:



    Download Becker Logo Editor (24.9 kB)

    Requirements

    • Microsoft Windows XP/2003 or newer
    • Microsoft .NET Framework 3.5 or newer

    The application is straightforward easy to use: Use the "Open..." button to load a binary dump, use "Save As..." to export the binary dump. By default the application will append "-new" to the filename to prevent accidental overwriting of the original binary dump. Opening and saving a binary dump - without making changes - might produce a binary that is not the same as the original. That's because the Becker Logo Editor maps the logo to a new canvas with maximum logo size. This is normal and intended behavior and does not cause any issues with the headunit. The Becker Logo Editor has been thoroughly tested and writes valid binaries for all images, but nevertheless make sure you keep a backup of the original binary dump.

    You can't draw in the Becker Logo Editor, but using the "Copy" and "Paste" buttons it is very easy to export and import images to and from other image editors like Microsoft Paint or even Adobe Photoshop. The "Edit" button opens the logo directly in Paint.

    The Becker screen is 201x34 pixels but the maximum size for a logo is 197x30 pixels (there's a 2-pixel border around the screen which cannot be used). Anything larger than 197x30 pixels will be cropped by the Becker Logo Editor. Grayscale or color images will be converted to black and white automatically but the Becker Logo Editor uses a rather crude algorithm for this. It's working fine to remove anti-aliasing from fonts but for graphics it's best to convert your custom image to black and white in a proper image editor before copy/pasting to the Becker Logo Editor.

    You can use the "Left", "Up", "Right" and "Down" buttons to position the logo on the screen. Use the middle button for automatic centering. You can't move a logo all the way to the edge of the screen because of the 2-pixel border mentioned before.

    There's also a small set of manufacturer logos built-in - the Logo Store. Handy if you are not looking for a custom logo but just want your car's manufacturer logo, or return to the original Becker logo, or even just a blank startup screen. These manufacturer logos were gathered from read EEPROMs, downloaded binary dumps and high resolution pictures found on the Internet. If you stumble upon a manufacturer logo or a variation that is not yet in the Logo Store, please send me the binary dump or high resolution image!

    Finally special thanks to puntoloco and govillard over at bmwfaq.com for inspiring me!
    Last edited by revtor; 07-30-2023 at 01:33 AM. Reason: Fixed image links

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