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Thread: Becker/BMW Indianapolis meets Indianapolis Pro

  1. #126
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    allisong: Great job

    We'd love to see pictures!

  2. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jo3y25 View Post
    Sorry, yes, v7.0 is the latest version and it's from 2009 not 2012.
    But I fond something about German people who managed to update radar's map in a file with the extension *.LWD
    Here is the link (they also give 2 programs to convert LWD to CSV and CSV to LWD)

    http://forum.pocketnavigation.de/for...ls/page-5.html

    And it's just one part of the problem since roads are not updated in this file I think. I am just at the beginning of this work so I will try to find more info.
    Can somebody help me with a working link to these tools please? I can't seem to find them anywhere.

    Kind regards.

  3. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonsterBus View Post
    Can somebody help me with a working link to these tools please? I can't seem to find them anywhere.

    Kind regards.
    Hello,

    sorry long time no see... What tools do you need?
    I started to work on trying to bypass the Becker safety by simply "renaming" all the file names from a more recent NAVTEQ databse. But it did not work. If I find something, I'll post here.

    I may have some of the tools you need, tell me which one so I can look after it on my computer and upload it.

  4. #129
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    @Jo3y25 - thank you for replying. The tools that used to be available on the pocketnavigation.de I believe where stored in a zip file. The filename was something like navdbtools_v1.0.zip (I'll try to confirm this). Some of the files contained in the archive were: navvoice_tool.exe, speedlimit_tool.exe, navlwdb_tool.exe, and navfldb_tool. I believe there was also a PDF giving user instructions. If you can find these on your computer that would be a great help.

    @revtor - thank you very much for sharing your wonderful Becker Logo Editor tool, this will let me change the startup image with my own design I have been working on. Would you consider adding a customised OEM logo to the logo store? I have been working on this for several days with MS Paint to create an Audi logo which is my imagining of what the factory would have used had it ever been available.

    I am waiting on a simple CH341 A USB programmer from China, it won't arrive until 30 to 50 days, once that arrives I'll know if my design looks right or not in on the radios LCD display.

    On another related topic, you swapped and modified your BMW Traffic Pro BE4771 display PCB to fit inside the Indianaopolis Pro front casing, can you tell me if any Traffic Pro can be used as an alternative for this surgical undertaking? Do you know if it's physically and electronically identical?
    Specifically, I think I need to find a Porsche Traffic Pro (either BE 4760 or BE 4773 I believe) as I think at least one of them has a red display rather than amber. Maybe you can confirm this for me?
    Last edited by MonsterBus; 12-17-2017 at 05:22 AM. Reason: typos and such

  5. #130
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    Hello guys!

    FIRST OF ALL : I would like to thank all the people who worked on this project before me. Those who made the tools, shared their infos despite the fact some people used it to commercial uses... Thank you guys.

    Secondly: I may write with some grammar faults, English is not my mother tongue...

    ****

    Last week I tried to use files from the DVD update: "Comand APS NTG1 V17 2016-2017" from Mercedes... (i tried many other versions of COMAND / NTG, but the database didn't look like the indianapolis pro version. I found this one to be the "closest" as the original indianapolis version.
    Here is what I did:

    As I live in France, I took the 5th CD of the latest OFFICIAL v7.0 update from Becker to see what's inside. As told on the forum "pocketnavigation.de" the compressed " *****.DB_ " file contains all the files needed for the countries.
    What I did first is to extract this " *****.DB_ " with navfldb_tool.
    Then I made the same for the "Comand APS NTG1 V17 2016-2017" DVD to compare.

    Here I faced already 1 problem: On the becker, we have 5 CD whereas in more recent cars, everything is in one single DVD... So I couldn't just put the files from the 2016-2017 version and replace since it's too big.
    2nd pb: the files' name are different. It uses a "code" --> In the v7.0 all the files are called " I83E_************ " whereas in the 2017 version they are all called: "ED522_************ " .

    So what I did is:
    1st : Select only the country I need (I took all the files starting by: I83E_FR****.xac)
    2nd : Rename all the files with I83E_ instead of ED522_ (and also the metafile generated when you extract the *DB_ file)
    3rd : Re-compile with the metafile
    4th : Burn

    And this morning I tested it. It almost worked ! Why? Because I could UPDATE my becker. I could enter a "city" . But when I get to enter the "street" , It can't find any street so I could'nt start the navigation... Otherwise the CD is recognized and no error was shown.

    I think there are 2 axis on which we can work on:

    1st : find how they managed to "cut" the system files to have 5 CD.
    2nd : find why I can enter any city , but not the streets ? (maybe taking only (I83E_FR files is not enough ? There might be other I83E_ files which contains the streets?))

    As I said, I won't have many time to work on it, so I decided to post where I am on the project , with all the tools I have (I don't have the PDF file you were talking about MonsterBus... ) so if the community could share its knowledge on it, we could all have an updated becker gps !

    Here are the tools I have (if authors of those tools don't want me to share it, just PM me):

    https://mega.nz/#F!LBlkRTSC!tOTde5F7BgwHYNr2eWfJGw

    If you need any questions on "HOW TO" feel free to ask. I'll try to answer. Please help us to finish this nice project ! :-)

    Regards,
    Last edited by Jo3y25; 12-16-2017 at 06:16 PM. Reason: grammar...

  6. #131
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    What is it that you are actually trying to achieve ?

  7. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fatandre View Post
    What is it that you are actually trying to achieve ?
    Update the GPS MAP ? from 2009 to 2017

  8. #133
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    MonsterBus: Feel free to mail me the logo ( ). Originally I intended to include only OEM factory logos but perhaps I can include both.

    I'm sure the Traffic Pro BE4720 display PCB can be fitted in the Indianapolis front if you make the same modifications as I did. I do have one concern though: The BE4720 has a 2-color display. Not only can it switch between positive and negative, it also can be switched between red and yellow. I'm not sure that feature will work with the Indianapolis. Then again, the user menu may be partially controlled by the removable front itself. After all, the original Indianapolis front did not have any menu settings to invert the display and after I had replaced it with the Traffic Pro BE4771 front I suddenly got the positive/negative menu entry. So there is a good chance the LCD color entry will appear as well with the BE4720. Naturally there's no way to be sure other than trying...

    Jo3y25: Thanks for making the files available again! I might take a look at it in the future but at the moment I feel like I've spent enough time on the Becker

  9. #134
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    Jo3y25: Thank you so much for sharing these hard to find files, I really appreciate it.

    You have made some good progress with this project, and again thank you for being generous with your detailed research and results.

    When I searched the web and various GPS forums for the aforementioned tools and information on how to use modified maps for the Indianapolis. I couldn't find evidence of anyone that was able get the unit to accept updates successfully. So well done in getting this far with it!

    That is very interesting to learn of your observations regarding the close similarities of the COMAND/NTG maps compared to the original Navteq maps.

    I agree with your view that we have two possible areas to focus on.

    With regard to the first, I can remember reading a post on a GPS forum that said that COMAND/NTG maps were also distributed on multiple CDs as well. I think this referred to a 2013-2014 version. I'm not sure if CD versions were produced after this period. #edit: I've since checked online and NTG systems are DVD only, earlier systems used maps on CDs.

    So my thinking is that if we can find a CD version to work with and apply the same steps you describe, then if we can successfully get the destination streets to be found, we would have a proof of concept. From there, we could possibly determine how the maps are split and with this knowledge we split the latest DVD maps onto CDs. #edit: I now realise we these discs simply don't exist unfortunately.

    The second possible approach is also viable, but I think we might need to develop a deeper understanding of the structure of the maps database. It may well be that this is the fundamental issue. What I mean by that is even if we manage to get the unit to update modified a COMAND/NTG map CD, we may still be faced with the same problem with the streets not being recognised. #edit: Noo further comment necessary.
    You'll appreciate that these are just ideas I have that would need to be tried and tested to learn more.

    revtor: I'll send you my logo soon.

    I take your point with dual colour display, this could well be problematic.

    Hmm, now that I think about this, you mentioned that you discovered the new addition of the menu setting to switch between positive and negative displays. I recently read on the electroda.pl forum that the logo displayed and the colour selected is rather cleverly determined by the front panel. Specifically, the contents of the 24C02 EEPROM sets which menus are present and indeed which logo is displayed.

    So for example, a Porsche front panel is coded to display a red backlight and the menu option to change it is disabled. The display logo is also set by the contents of the EEPROM.

    The chap on electroda.pl dumped the contents the EEPROM on a standard shop bought Traffic Pro BE 4720 and a Ford BE 4730. From there here was able to determine that the changes are made by differentiating between the binaries and identified the settings correspond to two bytes in memory. Each byte must be the same. By changing these bytes values he was able to display additional logos such as Aston Martin, Renault, and Porsche.

    So it would appear that the firmware has a library of logos, with one written to the 24C64 as determined by the front panel EEPROM.

    So, from all of this, I'm thinking if I could write the specific two byte values found on a Porsche front to the EEPROM to a standard BE 4720 front panel panel that would solve that problem at least.
    Last edited by MonsterBus; 12-17-2017 at 06:11 PM.

  10. #135
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    MonsterBus: The Traffic Pro does not have the 24C64 EEPROM. Here the firmware contains a bunch of logos (the one displayed may very well be chosen by the removable front - I don't know). It is however not possible to customize these logos (at least not until someone manages to modify the firmware).

    The Indianapolis uses a slightly different hardware/software design. Here the logo is stored in the 24C64 EEPROM and displayed regardless of the front.

    So while you may be able to get the Porsche logo on any BE4720 by flipping a few bits in the display EEPROM, the same trick does not work on the Indianapolis. You will have to modify the 24C64 EEPROM to change the logo.

  11. #136
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    revtor: Thanks for clarifying that for me.

    Jo3y25: My plan is to replicate the steps you have completed so that we are on the same place with this project.

    As I write this, I only have a copy of the RAW files from a the Mercedes Comand APS NTG 2 V18 disc to play with.
    I have the extracted the .xac files from these but I haven't explored there contents to make a comparision to the navteq files to see if they could perhaps be used to build a modified map disc. Maybe you have already tried this source and can comment?

    update: So in the meantime I tried extracting the main .DB_ file, removing all the Germany .xac files and there in the **** file, I then recompressed and burned the files to CD-R. All is working as it should on the Indianapolis unit, so this at least proves the method is working correctly if nothing else. I didn't try to update with UK .XAC files from the NTG 2 disc as I found that they are all 0 bytes files for some odd reason.

    So when I get the NG 1 files I try to update my modified image again and report back.





    I don't have a copy the Comand APS NTG1 V17 2016-2017 DVD you are using as yet. I've still to seek out a copy.
    If you can share a link privately that would be appreciated.
    Last edited by MonsterBus; 12-19-2017 at 11:24 AM.

  12. #137
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    Can anyone tell me the make and model of processor the Indy Pro uses please?
    Last edited by MonsterBus; 12-23-2017 at 07:17 AM.

  13. #138
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    Hi Chaps,
    I've been chipping away at this problem when time permits over the past few months or so to try to move this forward.

    So far I haven't been successful in my efforts but I haven't completely lost hope yet and will continue playing with this as I have a few ideas to try out.

    If I do make any progress with it I'll be sure to post my findings here.

    MonsterBus.

  14. #139
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    Hello, do you know which usb adapter work with BMW Becker radio.
    I have E36 m3 with bmw becker radio. Usb adapter for becker dont work with bmw becker.

    I try find some usb adapter which can work with my bmw becker radio.

    Thank you for help

    David

  15. #140
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    This is similar to one a friend has, it is made by YATOUR, They make many for different vehicles, Hope it helps!

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-Mus...SMTl:rk:9:pf:0

  16. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by SmeloCh View Post
    do you know which usb adapter work with BMW Becker radio.
    I have E36 m3 with bmw becker radio. Usb adapter for becker dont work with bmw becker.
    I try find some usb adapter which can work with my bmw becker radio
    I'm really sorry but I don't know a working USB media player for the BMW/Becker BE7969. That does not mean it does not exist - I just never looked for it.

    Becker changed the cd changer interface of the BE7969 to be compatible with the BMW I-bus. That means Becker accessories do not work with it.

    However, BMW I-bus compatible players should work. Note that you will not get track and artist information on the display.

    I circumvented that issue by putting the front of a BMW BE7969 onto the base of a Becker BE795x. It looks like a BMW Indianapolis but it actually is a Becker Indianapolis Pro. This way I could use the Becker Remote Kit - a Becker accessory that makes it possible to operate (older) Apple iPods directly from the head unit.

  17. #142
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    Hi Dear Friends.
    Great threat and many great mods.
    I wrote it many times while i had already 3 units - Becker Indianapolis pro, BMW Indianapolis and brand new BMW Indianapolis in box that was supplied with maps 5cds v7.0 but not branded cds - copy cheap writen cd-rs
    What I've done: I swapped the front from used BMW indi to the Becker Indo Pro. By far all ok, not big deal, but on my Becker indi I had no cds with it. It desn't show even compass or gps antenna signal. I decided to use the BMW cd part 4 with my location to install the maps on the Becker Indy pro. The instalation goes well in progress, but after the scale reach 49191242_2301582476520896_2762474564800741376_o.jpg
    100% successful, item goes off and died :/
    Now it does no get ON.
    Maybe there are differences for the maps or they goes with the hardware version by the unit. Witch have no sense for me because no where is mention that the maps cds have differences for the different units.
    Can you suggest what may be the problem and how to fix it. Because now my player is bricked and not usable and this drives me crazy.
    The new BMW indy gets the same cds without a problem and after update it restarted and worcked fine.
    But other strange thing is the second used BMW unit! It updates, but after restart it does not read the cds, and hides the gps and compass section. Or if it reads any one of the 5 navi cds - it tapes "installation error". When i insert the older ver6.0/2 cds only originally by words of Becker employer for BMW on version 6.0, not 5 at all/ it again takes the radio like update and after restart - the navi works. I tried the both optics BMW and Becker in the BMW unit and the same issue. Optics are ok, they read fine any cd-r i burn for mp3 or audio discs with no problem. Even some of them i've burned on fast speed and all ok while reading.
    Thank you and sorry for my English.
    Last edited by kagebista; 01-01-2019 at 05:42 PM.

  18. #143
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    So, if I understand you correctly:

    • Becker Indianapolis Pro (BE795x) --> Update to v7.0 --> bricked
    • New BMW Indianapolis (BE7969) --> Update to v7.0 --> works fine
    • Old BMW Indianapolis (BE7969) --> Update to v7.0 --> works but no gps/navidation --> downgrade to v6.0 --> works fine

    That is very weird indeed. The navigation discs do not have copy protection but the LBA order is important. However, if the LBA order is wrong they simply will not update the unit. Since your head units recognize the disc and start the update, LBA order should be fine. Maybe your v7.0 discs are not completely sane but then again, the new BE7969 seems to work fine with it. Puzzling...

    Does the Becker Indianapolis Pro still accept and eject discs or is it completely dead?

  19. #144
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    Yes sir, the points of the issue are correct.
    Firstly i took the cd4 with my country map and update the installed in my car Becker Indi. After it get bricked, i took the cd readed optic out and put it in the old BMW Indi to remove the disk. Te Becker Indy does not even light up the on button or anything when it is attached to the wiring. I try is with the BMW Indi cd reader, without any cd reader inside and it just not get started. Completely looks dead.

  20. #145
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    Did you check the fuse at the back? I fail to see how a software upgrade can blow the fuse, though.

    Anyway, if the fuse is okay and the unit gives no sign of life I'm afraid it's lost... There's no (publicly available) service manual I know of. There's one for the older Traffic Pro BE4720 but it only has diagrams. No operating principles, no test point details, no fault locator advice,...

  21. #146
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    The fuse was checked and is ok.
    The both software 6 and 7 was supplied to me directly from Becker company. When I ask why 6.0 is only 2 cds and not labeled one, the answer was that for bmw software ver 6.0 are only 2 cds and the original bmw printed ones are not available long time ago. That is why i get copies. I had defect with my new becker fascia front, and when they send me replacement - i get "a bonus" ver. 7.0 on all 5 parts again copy cd-rs.
    Can the unit be reflashed on programator like the logo?
    I do not know is the same chip for the logo carries and the software on it, or it is other chip?
    I have no such skills, but was planning to change the logo soon with a friend help.
    He told me for this issue that can try to reflash the unit, but i need to have an original rom file extracted or whatever it is.
    If some can help ,i with original rom from Becker Indi pro will be happy.
    In that case if the same chip is for the logo too, can some one send me a file with BMW logo, to have it and to try to do some my logo ideas with the program here.
    Thank you.

  22. #147
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    No, the logo is in a small 8 kB 24C64 EEPROM.

    The actual firmware is inside the main microcontroller (ST10F276-CEA for the Indianapolis Pro BE795x and ST10F269-T3 for the Indianapolis BE792x/BE7969). I'm afraid I can't help with the firmware, though.

  23. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by revtor View Post
    ....
    It's a real shame BMW didn't ask Becker to manufacture the BMW-branded Indianapolis with a negative display like its predecessor (in fact they even asked to omit stuff from the BMW Indianapolis - cheap bastards). That would have the been the head unit to get.
    I do wonder. Would this be a firmware specific thing? Would be nice if the omitted stuff wasn't really taken out, but more like a 'not activated' thing. Like how you can code modules to activate functions that are simply turned off.
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  24. #149
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    I would say that leaving out the entire subwoofer preamp from the PCB is more than just "a firmware thing" . In fact, the subwoofer level is still in the menu so I guess that you could solder in the missing parts and have a working subwoofer output.

  25. #150
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    Ha ok. In that case obviously not. But sometimes some RDS function like PTY or RT are dropped. I can’t imagine that being additional components to standard RDS functions.
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