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Thread: McCall's Z3 M Roadtser LS1 Project

  1. #51
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    no updates ?
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselGhost View Post
    no updates ?
    Yea, last two months I've been buried in work on the new Vorshlag shop and McCall has been traveling a bit, as has Costas. We're going to move the Z3 into the Vorshlag headquarters next week, we hope, then attack the last few circuits and FIRE IT UP!
    Terry Fair @ Vorshlag Motorsports

  3. #53
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    Quick picture of McCall's Z3 LSx, which we moved into Vorshlag's new shop last weekend for an upcoming, custom, dual 3" stainless exhaust system fabrication:



    More soon,
    Terry Fair @ Vorshlag Motorsports

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by PbFut View Post
    The only thing I am having a real concern over is running the fuel line inside the car. Add to that , it is next to the positive battery cable you have a combo that is very dangerous. I am running a LS2 fed by a OEM pump through the OEM lines up to the point of the original filter and regulator. At those connections, I ran AN-6 to a larger filter and aftermarket regulator. With 416/400 RWH/T , I do not drop pressure even at Auto Club Speedway where WOT in high gear is a 20 second event per lap. Well, more than half the time I got to lift in 1 because I am too chicken or tires are old. But my point is, replacing the lines into the cabin was not needed and added a great deal of risk.
    Well we will just have to agree to disagree then. Do this, before you publicly go out and start telling people their cars are unsafe, go walk up and down the paddock the next time you are at the track and you will see plenty of race cars that run the fuel lines through the cabin. And that is what this car is, a race car not a street car. As long as it's done properly with bulk heads, etc, there are no safetly concerns and this fuel system will pass tech at any track. It's actually safer than a stock system with better lines, connections, etc plus it's not run under the car, which could be ripped off during an off-track excursion. Same thing goes with the battery cable. Again, if it was done half-ass and I had explosed wires and rubber lines through metal there might be a concern but that's not the case here as everything is mounted and clamped properly.

    Regarding using a stock fuel system with a stock motor, that's fine for you and I'm sure it works ok at stock power levels. The long term goal for this car was to run a much larger/fuel hungry motor than a stock one so I built a fuel system that can sustain 600+ hp. Yes it's overkill with a stock LS1 but it saves me having to re-do it in the future when I add a lot more power. Cheers!
    Last edited by McCall; 10-18-2011 at 12:47 PM.

  5. #55
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    This is just the sickest project...

    I'll just ship over my E36 ti, you can do some work on it too

    Hope to see some updates soon
    Viktor Agnar Falk Gušmundsson
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  6. #56
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    McCall, looking good man!
    get us an update!
    coming soon, S54's for everything....

  7. #57
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    Project Update for Nov 11, 2011: Some folks on the various forums we're posting this build thread are anxious for updates, and I'll share what we've done lately. We abducted McCall's Z3 and brought it to the new shop in October. The last 2 weeks we've been planning the exhaust layout and accumulating parts to start making custom exhausts here at Vorshlag's new shop, with McCall's Z3M LSx exhaust being one of our first ones tackled (followed by a custom "axle back" system on my 2011 GT). First up, Ryan and AJ got the Z3 in the air and planned out the dual 3" exhaust routing.



    The Z3 is one of the few BMW chassis that has room for a true dual exhaust, and even though it doesn't "need" a dual 3" system (even at 450+ whp levels), it just sounds better and that's what McCall wanted. Can't blame him - I'd do that in all of my BMW V8s if it didn't require hacking out the trunk floors and custom fuel tanks to pull it off in the other 3 series chassis. This system will start at the V-bands on our production full length headers, go through two high flow catalysts, then merge into a custom-built "X" in the middle, then split back two dual 3" paths traversing under the diff, and head to two mufflers located near the rear bumper, with two polished tips at the back. We will TIG weld the entire system, built with the various 45 and 90 degree mandrel bent sections and straights.



    We have also been doing a week+ of research and finally found good sources for stainless exhaust tubing. We tried to find a good supplier for 18 gauge (.049" wall) 304SS tubing, but try as we might the costs and selections just suck. We ordered several sample bends last week from a few sources that we got from internet research and from asking in these threads, and the results were less than ideal. One bend showed up and was actually 16 gauge (.065" wall) and was a bust. Another was some Chinese polished nonsense that had ends crimped on for inlet tubing. Questionable bling. One wasn't even stainless. Lots of flops on anything remotely cost competitive to 16 ga.



    All of the other legitimate, US-sourced, 18 ga 304SS tubing was 2-3 times as expensive as 16 gauge, even from the same sources (you pay more for less steel?), so we're going to punt and gear up to use 16 gauge for systems - like everyone else does. The demand for 18 is so small that the smaller number of sources just charge more for it. 16 gauge exhaust tubing is just SO much more plentiful and affordable. I weighed the pros and cons, and talked over the costs with McCall and he agreed - and its not worth the extra hundreds of dollars in material costs to save "ones of pounds" on an entire exhaust system. My overwhelming desire to drop weight from a race car has a cost, and its just "too much for too little" in this regard. Yes, we'll make custom 18 gauge exhaust systems for people that must have the lightest system possible, but they're going to have to pay 2-3 times as much in materials and we will just have to pre-order the bends for their jobs.



    So long story short, we're finally getting the materials needed for McCall's dual 3" exhaust rounded up. We've found several stainless 3" band clamps we're going to try, sourced some nice tips for the back, and have the mufflers on hand. The 45° and 90° mandrel bends are being made to order and should be ready to pick-up today.



    Oh yea, the mufflers - The ones we're using on his car are the same style I've used many times before, from Flowmaster, and I bought another pair for the Mustang as well (that car is freakishly quiet with the stock mufflers, even with ARH long tubes installed). Their new Series 44 409SS offerings look nice and are fairly lightweight for a 3" full sized, mufti-chambered muffler. I like them because unlike the "fiberglass matting" packed mufflers, these don't seem to "wear out" the insides and get louder over time (like all of the glass-pack style mufflers I've used over the years; yes, even the FM Hushpowers). I know these will sound good and knock down decibels, and at 9.6 pounds they aren't going to add much weight. Now that they have a stainless option, and at only $85 each, this was a no-brainer. You won't get much lighter in an effective 3" In/Out muffler, honestly. The ultra-light stuff, like the 3 pound Burns stainless mufflers are over $300 each and they just don't cut down much on noise, and will get louder over time.

    More soon,
    Last edited by Fair; 11-11-2011 at 11:42 AM.
    Terry Fair @ Vorshlag Motorsports

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fair View Post
    Project Update for Nov 11, 2011: This system will start at the V-bands on our production full length headers, go through two high flow catalysts, then merge into a custom-built "X" in the middle, then split back two dual 3" paths traversing under the diff,

    We have also been doing a week+ of research and finally found good sources for stainless exhaust tubing. We tried to find a good supplier for 18 gauge (.049" wall) 304SS tubing, but try as we might the costs and selections just suck.

    All of the other legitimate, US-sourced, 18 ga 304SS tubing was 2-3 times as expensive as 16 gauge, even from the same sources (you pay more for less steel?), so we're going to punt and gear up to use 16 gauge for systems - like everyone else does.

    Yes, we'll make custom 18 gauge exhaust systems for people that must have the lightest system possible, but they're going to have to pay 2-3 times as much in materials and we will just have to pre-order the bends for their jobs.
    Four points:
    1) For maximum effectiveness, the X should be as close to the header collectors as you can get it. Is there a reason why you're going through the cats first then the X?

    2) I'm building a 2.5" dual cat/dual exhaust with X-pipe for my Cadillac Northstar Fiero. The only bends I can use are donuts. I use 14 ga for durability and the donuts are by far the cheapest way in $$/degree to get CLR = 1D bends. I can get 1D 90 bends in 16 ga from Burns, but since I may keep the whole system to less than 36" of straight tubing, the straight ends on the 90's are useless material for me.
    http://secure.chassisshop.com/partlist/6206/

    3) 18 ga is easier to wave, ripple and tear than thicker material... in addition to the supplies of raw tubing being lower, the bending process has a higher scrap rate and is more difficult than bending 16 ga.

    4) For someone who's willing to pay exhorbitantly for a weight saving exhaust, Burns *does* have titanium tubing...

  9. #59
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    WTF ?? X pipe as close to the headers ?? NEVER heard this before...

    Rule i heard was to put it as close to the differential as possible, hence the X pipe being swapped for the Y shaped reasonator in E39 M5s ?

    But i love the update.... wish i had the $$$ to have Vorshlag build me a SUPER DUPER ti
    Viktor Agnar Falk Gušmundsson
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  10. #60
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    This car is stupid awesome, like a modern day Shelby Cobra. What's the power to weight ratio for the car going to be?

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DieselGhost View Post
    WTF ?? X pipe as close to the headers ?? NEVER heard this before...

    Rule i heard was to put it as close to the differential as possible, hence the X pipe being swapped for the Y shaped reasonator in E39 M5s ?
    I have NEVER seen that recommendation and have only read/heard that the X should be as close to the collectors as possible.

    The reason is that the X represents a change of impedance to the wave propagation through the pipe.
    An open collector has a significant change of impedance at the end of it.
    The X-pipe works to simulate the change of impedance of an open collector, while keeping the exhaust gases inside pipes.
    It can't do that back at the muffler.

    I think I've seen pictures of E39 exhaust showing a "dead end" on the center silencer for everything else and a dual exhaust for the M5. I think that's just to do the best job stylistically of giving the M5 dual outlets...
    Last edited by DarkSideofWill; 11-25-2011 at 06:18 PM.

  12. #62
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    is impedance the proper term for exhaust gas?
    i can understand the term resonance and resistance, but impedance to me represents electrical circuit terminology.
    coming soon, S54's for everything....

  13. #63
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    Impedance applies to any wave in a transmission line... just like resonance and resistance.

    Ever played with RF signals in waveguides? Exhaust is the same thing, but slower.

    Changes of impedance are what cause the wave reflections that drive "resonance" and make headers work the way they do.

    However, headers are a time domain problem, not a frequency domain problem... That means that they don't really "resonate" the way an oscillator does.
    Last edited by DarkSideofWill; 11-26-2011 at 07:44 AM.

  14. #64
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    i would think the headers have a resonate frequency and the secondary resonate frequencies that come with it, but designing an entire exhaust system based on those frequencies might be slightly over-killing a street car. in this case i would think common practices of exhaust design would be more than acceptable. why over-complicate it to net yourself 5HP in a car that makes so much power already?

    do you have any links to an article or webpage with more information about the subject? I'd sure like to read more on it to further educate myself.
    coming soon, S54's for everything....

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    "Resonance" isn't a good way to talk about what headers do. The input to and transfer functions of headers are messy in the frequency domain (plotted with frequency as the independent variable).

    Headers are better considered in the time domain (time as the independent variable).

    Not sure there's one good site that explains header operation well. There IS a whole lot of crap and misinformation out there, though.

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSideofWill View Post
    "Resonance" isn't a good way to talk about what headers do. The input to and transfer functions of headers are messy in the frequency domain (plotted with frequency as the independent variable).

    Headers are better considered in the time domain (time as the independent variable).

    Not sure there's one good site that explains header operation well. There IS a whole lot of crap and misinformation out there, though.
    yeah, i know. that's why i'm trying to learn. lots of people use big words to attempt to look smarter than they really are. i don't want to be that guy. i want to be able to explain in normal "laymans terms" what is happening.

    Would mapping the headers as a time variable be incorrect because the length of the headers is not variable?
    I was assuming the frequency was the variable because of the changing rpm (frequency) was what was changing. then designing the headers with the resonate frequency outside the normal RPM range based on that information.
    Last edited by weaksauce; 11-27-2011 at 06:00 PM.
    coming soon, S54's for everything....

  17. #67
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    Project Update for Dec 9, 2011: Our fabricator here at Vorshlag, Ryan, built a custom dual 3", mandrel bent, 304L stainless dual exhaust for McCall's Z3M a week ago and I'm going to show off the work here. Our lead technician AJ lent a hand during fabrication as well. The finished system looks... incredible. Insane ground clearance everywhere, top notch TIG welding, beautiful brackets, and a smooth flow path.



    First step was getting the mufflers mounted correctly. This was tricky, because there wasn't an over-abundance of room back there. The "tip" placement is also tricky, and Ryan ended up trying several placements before I and McCall were happy, and cutting the tips a bit shorter at the back to make it all fit.



    The mufflers were mounted with custom brackets bolted to stock mounting locations, with these two-piece poly mounts for isolators. Ryan made some pretty slick mounts by hand, so we're going to make some additional generic mounts to keep on hand like this from laser cut 304SS plate.



    After the muffler locations were locked down, he made a custom X pipe from two 90s and four 45s. This was a royal PITA and next time we make a dual exhaust, we will use a pre-made 304SS X pipe to cut down on fab time, then modify it to fit the car.



    After the X pipe was in place, it was a matter of connecting the front to rear sections within the tunnel. The placement of tubing near fuel tank was always maximized for clearance, of course.

    As I detailed in my Nov post, we're using the 409SS Flowmaster Series 44 mufflers in 3", two high flow metal matrix 3" catalytic converters, plus we have our new local source for 3" 304L stainless bends, some nice stainless "tips", and V-bands from our E36 LS1 kit. It took a good number of hours to build this custom set-up, and we saw several places where we could save time in the future (buying the pre-made "X", for one).




    That's the finished look above. Not too shabby. We've already had one Z3 LSx customer see the exhaust and say "make me one!", so we'll be making copies of this set-up for Z3M LSx customers soon. We'll do the same thing when we hit the next E36 LSx exhaust (we've got 2 underway in the shop now), so look for that to show up in our online catalog soon.



    As his schedule frees up here at Vorshlag (buried in E36 LSx swap kit production + E46 LSx prototype header fab), Ryan will attack the remaining wiring on McCall's Z3M and we'll get it ready to drive, fire it up, and do a quick sound clip of the exhaust. I'm pretty sure its going to sound nice. The wiring still looks like a mess, but remember - the P.O. had done some wiring hacks, and McCall wanted to rid the car of all unnecessary wires.



    Here's a little walk-around and start-up video, first time the motor was fired after the new exhaust was turned on. Sounds good for a bone stock 5.7L LS1.


    Left: click here for the walk-around video Right: Vorshlag camber plates are on

    McCall has been up here at Vorshlag making two bulkhead plates for the firewall and installing about a dozen bulkhead connectors for the brake lines. The ABS module is now mounted under the dash, so it will be out of sight and plumbed accordingly.



    On Dec 10th while I was at ECR driving our Mustang and E46 BMW, Ed built the new brake hard lines (see above left) and McCall installed the AST coilovers (see above right) and Vorshlag camber plates, so its really getting close to being "Ready to drive". We've got a new clutch remote reservoir coming that will feed to the clutch master cylinder, then we can hook up the clutch hydraulics.

    More soon,
    Terry Fair @ Vorshlag Motorsports

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    Damn,.....looks great!

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    Quote Originally Posted by weaksauce View Post
    Would mapping the headers as a time variable be incorrect because the length of the headers is not variable?
    I was assuming the frequency was the variable because of the changing rpm (frequency) was what was changing. then designing the headers with the resonate frequency outside the normal RPM range based on that information.
    If you look at the amount of time the exhaust valve is open at a given RPM, the speed of sound in 1000 degree exhaust gas and remember the basics of wave mechanics relative to open and closed pipe reflections and headers are pretty easy to understand...

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarkSideofWill View Post
    If you look at the amount of time the exhaust valve is open at a given RPM, the speed of sound in 1000 degree exhaust gas and remember the basics of wave mechanics relative to open and closed pipe reflections and headers are pretty easy to understand...
    at that point you are designing a header and exhaust system for one given rpm.


    on a side not, I dropped by vorshlag's new shop yesterday to pick up some spacers for a customers car, and all i can say is "WOW" they have a great facility. Any of you guys local to the DFW Metromess should drop in and say hello to those guys. They've come along way from working on cars in Terry's garage.

    Thumbs up guys!

    the roadster looks great too.
    coming soon, S54's for everything....

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by weaksauce View Post
    at that point you are designing a header and exhaust system for one given rpm.
    Yeah, that's the way it works...

    Tubing length tunes the "time domain" for a given RPM range.

    Tubing diameter (somewhat affected by length) tunes gas velocity to scavenge the cylinder over a larger range of RPM. However, I've never seen a good explanation of the thermodynamics and associated math behind that approach.

  22. #72
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    Needs quad tips.... this is without a doubt the only thing i'm not jawdropping about on this car....
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  23. #73
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    Project Update for Jan 3, 2012: Finally getting back up to speed after last weekend's holiday and last Saturday's triumphant first drive in McCall's Z3M Roadster LS1. Let's back up a bit and cover the work performed since the last update, which wasn't much.



    First, Ed built a gaggle of brake hard lines and flexible braided stainless lines for the ABS relocation. He and McCall mounted the E36 M3 ABS unit under the dash (why not? it's a race car) and afterwards McCall built two small bulkheads (that covered bog holes in the firewall) and drilled them, then they installed about 6 bulkhead fittings there. They routed the hard and soft lines from the brake Master Cylinder to the ABS, and back out to the 4 corners of the car. Again, this is a 4 channel ABS from a 1996-1999 M3, which is close in function to the original Z3M 4 channel ABS - but worked on its own ABS computer, and not through the BMW DME. Saves on DME integration headaches. The ABS isn't wired yet, of course, but it was at least plumbed and that's what we needed for the test drive. We spent abut an hour tightening all of the bulkhead fittings, then moved onto the reservoir lines.



    We then added the two low pressure, gravity feed, flexible lines that normally route from the brake MC reservoir to the ABS unit (on the M3). The routing was going to be tortuous with the new ABS hydraulic unit under the dash, with the route going uphill at some point, so two additional fluid reservoirs were procured and mounted just inside the cowl area (closer to and above the new ABS solenoid unit). This was the largest part of the delay from the Dec 9th update until Dec 31st, when he made the first test drive - finding the right reservoirs and hoses. We had sourced a couple that he didn't like, so McCall picked up these two units from Pegasus.



    By Dec 31st, they had arrived and we were ready to mount them up - I joined McCall at Vorshlag on that Saturday (hours before my annual NYE party) and we got to work. These two reservoirs are pretty large and are normally used as an exclusive reservoir for the brake master cylinder(s). It was just easier to mount and plumb two of them in the cowl area while still being pretty cost effective. These units also had bulkhead style fittings on the bottoms, which doubled for both mounting (on a horizontal sheet metal surface - the cowl) and as a connection for the AN-to-Barb fitting. Then flexible, low pressure, brake fluid reservoir rated lines were plumbed from the barb fitting down to the ABS unit in two places and clamped in place. Again, these are gravity fed, low pressure lines that are normally just shoved on and held by barbs in the OEM application.



    Once that was on we hooked up the clutch reservoir hose back to the OEM brake master reservoir, bled the clutch (took 30 seconds), then started on bleeding the brakes. That took about 15 minutes, and went surprisingly well. By then Ed had arrived, and McCall and I were noting how none of the lines had leaked, until Ed saw one of the reservoir lines leaking. It was the only fitting he didn't supply to this project, and it was the wrong size, so he went back to his shop, built a proper fitting and grabbed some larger diameter reservoir hose for the one channel on the ABS unit that was larger than the other hose. While he was gone we re-routed one of the water pump to coolant reservoir lines, fired up the electric water pump and filled then purged the coolant system with water. Once Ed got back and installed that fitting and properly sized hose, we were leak free on all hydraulics. Re-bled the brakes quickly to check, had a rock solid pedal, and then it was time to tidy up some wiring.



    I used about 50 small zip ties and bundled the mess of wiring that had not been trimmed or re-routed yet, keeping every wire well away from hot exhaust parts or moving pulleys. It is by no means complete, but it was good enough for a short test drive - and we were quickly running out of time (it was 5 pm on NYE, just 2 hours before our party). Then I took a big bundle of wires that are still being used (the front headlight harness) but not connected yet, stuffed them in a big plastic bag, and zipped it out of the way under the radiator support. Next I bundled the GM ECU and tied it down in the passenger foot well. We torqued and checked everything, aired up the tires, then fired it up... the clutch worked (still need to adjust pedal height - probably just needs to be bled some more). We pulled it out into the area behind our shop, then we checked everything as it warmed up. Once it was warmed up, McCall began his first test drive, which is shown in the video below.


    Click for video of first fire-up and test drive


    Three years and lots of very custom work later, this Z3 was finally driving with the new LS1 power! He was just driving around our building cautiously, stopping on almost every lap so we could check temps (IR gun) and look for leaks, then he started to pick up the pace - as you can see in the video. He made maybe 15 laps of the building, all in all. The front brakes were touchy and locked up with any real pedal effort - just like E36 brakes are when the ABS computer is not functioning. Everything eventually came up to temp and he made a solid 15 minutes of driving (and hooning) before we had to call it a day. We brought it in, looked over everything, and it was all good.



    So it ran in 2011, after some much needed custom exhaust work, new AST/Vorshlag suspension, and some other bits we installed at Vorshlag + the massive hydraulic re-work performed by Ed and McCall. Very exciting to see and hear this car drive after all this time. It sounded nice and healthy but was far from obnoxious - honestly, it sounded much like my 2011 Mustang, which has a nearly identical exhaust system (long tubes, into a dual 3" catted X-pipe, into the same 3" Flowmaster Series 44 mufflers into the exact same tips). Streetable as can be.

    Next up it needs some more wiring clean-up, including splicing in the front headlight harness (which was all cut-up and non-functional when he bought it), some interior clean-up, the passenger seat can be reinstalled and the GM computer permanently mounted. Throw an alignment and corner balance on it here at Vorshlag, then its ready to autocross. Maybe 8-10 hours of work before its ready for that, then add the hood, a horn and some street tires and go get an inspection sticker.

    More soon,
    Terry Fair @ Vorshlag Motorsports

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    Wow. This has been a great read. Keep up the good work!

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    MZ3, YUK DEN, FORESTERXT
    Did you guys ever finish this project? Did Jason get the ABS working? I am finally starting my repair now that I have all the parts.
    00 MZ3 with LS2 /T56 swap (425rwhp/404Torq corrected to SAE), with oil cooler and 3 qt accusump, TCK DA, , 1.75 in Vorshlag Headers, RD Sways, Dinan Upper Strut, Turner Brake Cooling with Stainless Lines, DTC90 Pads, Fidanza LTW Fly Wheel and LS7 clutch and pressure plate, Hurst Shifter Hamann Kit, Digi tec Wing, Full grand am style cage from Deman MotorSports, New Age radiator, Lower temp alum thermostat, center 75d FCAB, Rear Camber and Toe plates, AKG 75d bushings throughout , SLR Roll Center / Bump Steer Correction kit, Turn one power steering pump and cooler, Rogue Rear Strut mounts, TCK Camber Plates, 18x10.5 wheels with Hoosier R6, Rogue Dual-Ear diff, Randy Forbe Reinforced Diff Mounts, adjustable sway bar end links, 500/700 springs, Custom Advanced Motorsports carbon fiber hood, carbon fiber roof, bumper cover, splitter and Dive Planes, Pole Position, lexan Windows, PBR C6 z 6 piston calipers with C6z rotors,custom dual master cylinder pedal box...

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