Sepang Malaysian GP - April 05, 09

[Shak. G]

I want to start this thread by quoting the McLaren Team Boss from the ITV website in relation to Lewis Hamilton’s podium.
There were special circumstances here: a high level of attrition, I think we had a good strategy and Lewis drove well. “I don’t think we can rely on that to consistently score solid points, we need to make a quicker car.”
We all know this statement is true. As a McLaren Mercedes fan (aka LH fan boy,) I have worked out a strategy around the diffuser issue in which McLaren stands to gain the most. We all know that the perceived illegal diffuser accounts for as much as three tenths of a second gain per lap. So here goes; since expectations for a Sepang podium is highly minimal, McLaren should run the “illegal” diffuser there this weekend. Hold on, hold on, let me finish. I imply this because is a strategic ploy. Without the illegal diffuser, if they come away with one point, they can count themselves fortunate. If they run the illegal diffuser and come in at least third then they gain another six points. So here is the catch. When a final decision is made about the legality of the diffuser before China, and it is deemed legal then they hypothetically end up with 12 points on the board. If it is deemed illegal, they take a full 10 points from Australia and 0 from Sepang leaving 10 on the board. If they do nothing and run their current legally interpreted design, they come away with 7 at most. So the points analysis for these three options are 12 – 10 – 7. Of course formula 1 is highly unpredictable and there are countless permutations as to who will take the checkered flag and subsequent final spaces at the Sepang race, but I think this analysis makes a bit of sense. This gamble will not work for Ferrari because they have no points coming from Australia. Of course it takes time and a huge amount of effort to change out the diffuser set up but if anyone can pull it off, it’s the Woking squad.

[prash]

That actually makes a lot of sense. I doubt they'll do this, but it is a good idea.

[Dale@Evosport]

I want to start this thread by quoting the McLaren Team Boss from the ITV website in relation to Lewis Hamilton’s podium.
There were special circumstances here: a high level of attrition, I think we had a good strategy and Lewis drove well. “I don’t think we can rely on that to consistently score solid points, we need to make a quicker car.”
We all know this statement is true. As a McLaren Mercedes fan (aka LH fan boy,) I have worked out a strategy around the diffuser issue in which McLaren stands to gain the most. We all know that the perceived illegal diffuser accounts for as much as three tenths of a second gain per lap. So here goes; since expectations for a Sepang podium is highly minimal, McLaren should run the “illegal” diffuser there this weekend. Hold on, hold on, let me finish. I imply this because is a strategic ploy. Without the illegal diffuser, if they come away with one point, they can count themselves fortunate. If they run the illegal diffuser and come in at least third then they gain another six points. So here is the catch. When a final decision is made about the legality of the diffuser before China, and it is deemed legal then they hypothetically end up with 12 points on the board. If it is deemed illegal, they take a full 10 points from Australia and 0 from Sepang leaving 10 on the board. If they do nothing and run their current legally interpreted design, they come away with 7 at most. So the points analysis for these three options are 12 – 10 – 7. Of course formula 1 is highly unpredictable and there are countless permutations as to who will take the checkered flag and subsequent final spaces at the Sepang race, but I think this analysis makes a bit of sense. This gamble will not work for Ferrari because they have no points coming from Australia. Of course it takes time and a huge amount of effort to change out the diffuser set up but if anyone can pull it off, it’s the Woking squad.

How can something so confusing make so much sense? haha. I do agree though.

However I think they will deem the diffusers illegal but let the teams keep the points. It is the FIA's fault for making the rule so vague as to allow teams to interpret it differently. Any of the engineers can chime in here but isn't a longer diffuser going to allow less passing because the car behind won't have enough down force? If following the spirit of the rules for more passing and less aero push, (NASCAR term, ducking but those are the cars I drive now) dosn't a diffuser that can gain 3 to 6 tenths go against this?

Dale

[rmani]

I want to start this thread by quoting the McLaren Team Boss from the ITV website in relation to Lewis Hamilton’s podium.
There were special circumstances here: a high level of attrition, I think we had a good strategy and Lewis drove well. “I don’t think we can rely on that to consistently score solid points, we need to make a quicker car.”
We all know this statement is true. As a McLaren Mercedes fan (aka LH fan boy,) I have worked out a strategy around the diffuser issue in which McLaren stands to gain the most. We all know that the perceived illegal diffuser accounts for as much as three tenths of a second gain per lap. So here goes; since expectations for a Sepang podium is highly minimal, McLaren should run the “illegal” diffuser there this weekend. Hold on, hold on, let me finish. I imply this because is a strategic ploy. Without the illegal diffuser, if they come away with one point, they can count themselves fortunate. If they run the illegal diffuser and come in at least third then they gain another six points. So here is the catch. When a final decision is made about the legality of the diffuser before China, and it is deemed legal then they hypothetically end up with 12 points on the board. If it is deemed illegal, they take a full 10 points from Australia and 0 from Sepang leaving 10 on the board. If they do nothing and run their current legally interpreted design, they come away with 7 at most. So the points analysis for these three options are 12 – 10 – 7. Of course formula 1 is highly unpredictable and there are countless permutations as to who will take the checkered flag and subsequent final spaces at the Sepang race, but I think this analysis makes a bit of sense. This gamble will not work for Ferrari because they have no points coming from Australia. Of course it takes time and a huge amount of effort to change out the diffuser set up but if anyone can pull it off, it’s the Woking squad.

If the diffusers are deemed to be illegal I doubt the FIA will overturn the results from the previous two races. Rather they'll ban the rear wing from here on out. The more likely outcome is the appeal will fail and the original ruling will stand, at which point the rest of the field will scramble to copy the design.

[Dino Antonov]

That actually makes sense. I wonder how easy it will be to modify that part of the car. From what I understand its part of the rear crash structure, which might not be as easy to modify as a nose section for example. In any case, I think the typically fast teams will be back on pace come spain.

.02

[ScottL]

From what (little) I've read, switching to the open diffuser is not quite a bolt-on exercise. They'd have to do significant chassis redesign to incorporate it. No?

[M3Alpine99]

From what (little) I've read, switching to the open diffuser is not quite a bolt-on exercise. They'd have to do significant chassis redesign to incorporate it. No?

Depends on the team. IIRC RBR has suspension points around it... like they would have to redo the whole rear end.

Can we have another first post ITT? roflmao

While a good idea I don't believe they will risk or had the time to make the diffuser. I am sure it is possible but if it is not bolt on there isn't much time to really test and find out.

[///M3Augy]

Battle of the diffusers round 2. I am excited.

[jasperw4]

you can't just throw a new diffuser on, everybody is running what they have until they get back to europe.

[Mr.M]

you can't just throw a new diffuser on, everybody is running what they have until they get back to europe.

I think we'll see them sooner than that It's definitely possible.

[CaracasE30]

I could of sworn that I posted a reply in this thread...and its not here anymore.

Anywho, highly unlikely that the non-"illegal" diffuser teams will be running their own designs without the sufficient lead time in order to use a thorough design.

There are some teams that supposedly will have to re-do their entire rear casings to accommodate the new designs.

[lskywalker]

I think it is quite possible to get new parts out to the teams before they go back home. The question is merely if they want to.

If it stands, Red Bull are in fact screwed. Their entire suspension would have to be redesigned.

I don't understand how they could make the diffusers illegal, but not uphold the appeals. Because once the appeals are heard, they are either legal, or illegal. I think whether or not the results stand is directly tied up in whether or not the diffusers are legal. Now, if they take the rules seriously, then that's bad for Brawn et al. But if they think "ah, we don't want to take away wins from good teams who were creative," then that's bad for the big teams. But I don't think this is an issue where you can have the cake and eat it.

[tylerAWe36m3]

it doesn't seem to matter that the RBR doesn't have the "illegal" difuser when the car is in vettel's hands.

[bimmerzone]

I agree with you, the appeal will fail and come the european races everyone will have those diffusers LOL

diffusers or not, brawn has a much better car than last year!!

If the diffusers are deemed to be illegal I doubt the FIA will overturn the results from the previous two races. Rather they'll ban the rear wing from here on out. The more likely outcome is the appeal will fail and the original ruling will stand, at which point the rest of the field will scramble to copy the design.

[BburgBimmerMan]

I agree with your logic except for the main point....

They can't get a diffuser on the car that quick. Would be nice for them, but the way that diffuser works pretty much requires a total rework of the rear end.


Look forward to this race. Hopefully Brawn's chassis doesn't work even better at a true circuit lol

[BahnBurner]

It was reported that it will cost Ferrari around $20 million to redesign their car with the new diffuser. I know most teams have been working on it for a couple weeks now it not months as is McLaren's case. It is not an easy fix.

I think the more important issue is tires. Vettel got raped once he put the super soft tires on, who is going to be able to control tire wear the best? Is the performance different going to be as great as in Melbourne? Looks like Malaysia will be wet, so we may not get to see the slicks, but cars like Ferrari, that last year were easy on the tires, are having problems now.

[bimmerzone]

gosh $20 mil.... lots of $$$$$$


yeah, tire issues is crazy as the two compounds are one step off.....Kubica was good, light load to start and had a short run wiht the super soft.... maybe thats the way to go! but again, easier said than done

It was reported that it will cost Ferrari around $20 million to redesign their car with the new diffuser. I know most teams have been working on it for a couple weeks now it not months as is McLaren's case. It is not an easy fix.

I think the more important issue is tires. Vettel got raped once he put the super soft tires on, who is going to be able to control tire wear the best? Is the performance different going to be as great as in Melbourne? Looks like Malaysia will be wet, so we may not get to see the slicks, but cars like Ferrari, that last year were easy on the tires, are having problems now.

[ghambino]

I can only imagine the headaches the super soft tire will bring at high speed and hard breaking circuits. We can pretty much expect super aggressive stints on these tires. Looking forward to the race, but I hope it rains.

[Mr.M]

Would be nice for them, but the way that diffuser works pretty much requires a total rework of the rear end.

For some, but not all teams.

[Dino Antonov]

Question is how accurate is the source. $20 mil seems very steep, even for F1 standards.

It was reported that it will cost Ferrari around $20 million to redesign their car with the new diffuser.

In regards to the tires, I think many teams learned their lesson this weekend. Aside from the diffusor shenanigans, tires are the main focus of drivers/engineers right now.

If it does indeed rain this weekend, the only prediction I can make is Vettel once again will show the world he is the best spacer in the lineup.

.02

[bigdog68]

Dear lord I agree with Shak. G! Kinda. I think that the diffusers will eventually be called illegal but no points will be lost because of the ruling just a from here on out ruling will be made, from that point on I think everyone that can should run them this weekend.

[BburgBimmerMan]

For some, but not all teams.

True. I heard during the broadcast Sunday that because of their unique pull-rod rear suspension, RedBull (& STR essentially) will have a LOT of difficulties making this happen...

[bigrojo37]

I dont believe anything about the $20 million to correct an issue. That is absolutely ridiculous.

[e30Montreal]

Maybe I am just rembering wrong... but I thought if a wet or inter. wheel is employed the driver is not foced to use both options. I don't feel like checking FIA website... does anyone know? If my memory is acurate, I assume there is a good chance teams will go for the harder compounded for first two stints (or it will rain even before that).

[M3Alpine99]

The super soft tire was not the tire for Australia. Bridgestone was instructed, according to the broadcast, to now offer a wider gap in tire performance. So instead of going Medium/Soft it is Medium/Super Soft. Or Hard/Soft as opposed to Hard/Medium.

Why they are doing this I don't really know. I guess to make things like last race excitement happen as the Super Soft wears off. If this continues to happen no teams are going to start on the prime time and safe the tire that is gone after 3 laps for late in the race. See Vettel as an example...