e36 power steering delete product.

[RobertFontaine]

What belt are you using right now if you know?

Belt? He removed the power steering pump and stuck a catch can in the hole.

Deleting your power steering on a car that was the best steering car of the 90's is simply retarded.

[cabezzzdb8]

Depends on what tensioner setup you have, but when a friends hose went out on a road trip we figured out how to find a 56" belt in the same number of ribs and it worked fine for well over a couple thousand miles.

I will say if you have any modifications to the suspension, don't delete it. An e30 is also lighter in the front, and even then I don't like it on e30's either.

Will look into that belt thanks

[T r o u b l e]

Belt? He removed the power steering pump and stuck a catch can in the hole.

Deleting your power steering on a car that was the best steering car of the 90's is simply retarded.

yeah belt... he obviously had to put a smaller belt on or the water pump would not work...guess you don't understand how stuff works. and it was best handling car by the way.

deleting p/s is a huge improvement to the feel over the ridiculous oversteering you deal with at high speeds.

I'm searching for a proper belt size to use as well if anyone knows.

[RobertFontaine]

yeah belt... he obviously had to put a smaller belt on or the water pump would not work...guess you don't understand how stuff works. and it was best handling car by the way.

deleting p/s is a huge improvement to the feel over the ridiculous oversteering you deal with at high speeds.

I'm searching for a proper belt size to use as well if anyone knows.

You have no clue whatsoever. The manual steering makes the e36 feel like you are driving a truck. While it feels decent at 200kph, it's pretty much useless below 100.

[T r o u b l e]

you need to loop the rack and have fluid in it and it won't "feel like driving a truck" and im not saying its better at only 120mph+...at any speed it feels better than having p/s. it all comes down to preference, some people will bitch about "pulling into a parking space" well it ain't for you then.

I have my system looped right now, no resv, and hoses off the pump, and been driving it everyday for past 2 weeks as is through the twisty mountain roads here so i know exactly how it feels...and the shorter belt to use is: K060560..which i just found while searching a bit more.

[RobertFontaine]

The rack is looped and welded. It doesn't pass safety and it sucks.

[T r o u b l e]

whats welded? (post a pic, you got me curious) Are you sure the fluid in your rack is circulating and its not just "closed off"? if so, the steering should not feel as hard as you are describing

you can't pass safety inspection in canada with a modded rack? sucks..

[RobertFontaine]

No you can not pass safety in canada with a modded rack. I have to pull the rack current rack and am swapping in a Z3 rack. I should have the car up on jack stands and be pulling the rack and installing the new ps pump next week. Will post pics of the old rack an d previous owners mod then. The steering does feel very good at high speed but it is unreasonably heavy at low speeds. Reducing the responsiveness of your steering is like putting training wheels on your bicycle. Yes it "feels" more stable at high speed but that's because you have less ability to steer your car.

[PHARMDVIPER]

have not had ps on my track car for a few months now....I think it feels great out on the track...much more feedback the only drawback is >~20mph on the street/parking etc... then it is hard to turn


better than leaks!

[ewrjontan]

Sorry, old thread bump. How do you bleed your system with a PS delete and block-off plate (like the one sold at Condor speedshop)?

[ed323i]

I personally really liked that my ex 320i E30 and ex 318i E30 had no power steering. The feel and feedback and precision at higher speed is superb. With the E30, if you didn't have too wide front tires, it was quite okay even parking, for me personally at least. Type 1 E30's were a bit lighter also and it didn't feel like a disadvantage at all. When I drove my father's Mercedes 500SE I really missed the precision of the non-PS E30. Horses? No comparison of course ;-)

I think an E36 M3 would be the worst car to remove the PS, because it's quite heavy and has quite wide tires.
Doing it on an E36 318ti with 185/195/205 wide front tires vs on an M3 will feel quite different I'd say.

Personally I would even consider removing the PS (I can hear the pump bearings more and more), but my wife also drives the car, so that would be impossible.
On the other hand, if you revise the power steering completely, it's a very good system and it feels very stable and precise, also at high speeds. A lot better than the E30/E32/E34 power steering.

To get the best of both worlds, a modded electric power steering from a modern 1 or 3-series would be great. Just have it shut down once you go faster than 30 or 40 mph (just pull the power automatically using some electronics, or just install a PS switch in the cabin). But wouldn't be so easy to install in an E36 I'd think. Advantages: no more power drain, slightly better mileage, no more fluid leaks, very high assist at low speeds, no assist at high speeds.. But then, the reviews of the modern electric power steering systems aren't all that positive, less feedback, less feel.

Found this thread: E36 M3 with electric power steering pump, so still hydraulic, but less parasitic drag: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=281650 .
A kit can be bought here: http://abloriginalparts.com/pb/wp_a4..._a4cf346c.html .

And some BMW rally drivers use complete electric steering columns from, amongst others, the Opel/Vauxhall Corsa (model C, year 2000+ series I think):
http://www.bmw-rallying.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=2434
And a youtube video of a lab setup of the Corsa (model B from the 90s though) electric steering column: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAiFGBcvCQA . The numbers of Amps stays below 10, so less than 150W, but that's with no wheels attached. I'd expect higher power in real life situations. Here are some pics of Corsa B and C power steering columns and the needed ECU to control it: http://www.rallywiz.com/Column_ECU_photos.htm .

Another cool option would be to add a electronic clutch to the power steering pump, just like the A/C compressor has one. So, you can turn off the PS manually.

Update: few more Corsa B/C electric steering column information pages:
http://www.super7thheaven.co.uk/blog...-epas-testing/
http://www.super7thheaven.co.uk/stee...ering-kit-car/
http://www.super7thheaven.co.uk/blog...steering-epas/
Those are not entirely safe though: "When the torque sensor on a Corsa’s column wears out, people have been steered against there will with little warning and they zig zag you down the road when trying to go straight".

[silence8]

Sorry, old thread bump. How do you bleed your system with a PS delete and block-off plate (like the one sold at Condor Speed Shop)?

Heres a short How to explaining the process on an E30.

[ewrjontan]

Actually just saw that video earlier today on facebook. So turning the wheels with the open lines bleeds it? I'm curious as to how much fluid should be in the system; I'll probably ask them.

That's pretty cool though. I was honestly looking into a chase bays setup to replace the system once I start getting leaks again but I like the idea of no-ps. I had no ps in my old 91 Toyota MR2 and while it kind of sucked parking, I didn't really mind it at all. The car is mostly a track car anyways so I would take the reliability over the convenience any day.

Does anyone care to share their input with their e36's and the condor ps delete block?

[ed323i]

That's pretty cool though. I was honestly looking into a chase bays setup to replace the system once I start getting leaks again but I like the idea of no-ps. I had no ps in my old 91 Toyota MR2 and while it kind of sucked parking, I didn't really mind it at all. The car is mostly a track car anyways so I would take the reliability over the convenience any day.

Does anyone care to share their input with their e36's and the condor ps delete block?

No experience here (except with E30s, of which most came without PS in Europe. Some E36 316i's were also sold without PS, here in Europe.
The M3, being one of the heaviest E36s, and having quite wide front tires, will be quite difficult to drive without PS. On the track, might be okay for smaller races, but for endurance/longer races, you'll get tired and lose precision and hence lap times will worsen. Parking, will be a PITA. I think the MR2 is a lot lighter than the E36 M3, and also mid-engined (lighter on front wheels probably). And if it was sold with manual (no-PS) rack, then the steering ratio was probably easier. I think MR2 is more like an E30 weight-wise.

On the other hand, I even saw a youtube video of a guy racing an E46 M3, and he took out the PS. In the end I didn't hear if he liked it or not, because the video was a bit too long, and I didn't know where he gave the feedback.

To get sort of a feeling of what it feels like, just buy the shorter belt (quite cheap) and install it in a few minutes, taking the PS pump out of the loop.

[jmo69]

I have no intention of removing my power steering but I've driven a lot of cars without it. I learned to drive in the 60's when PS was an option and rack and pinion was only found on European cars. The car I sold in 2007 to buy my e36 was the last one. 1968 Camaro, 400 small block, 4 speed, no power steering or brakes. It did have a large diameter steering wheel for extra torque.


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[jmo69]

I have no intention of removing my power steering but I've driven a lot of cars without it. I learned to drive in the 60's when PS was an option and rack and pinion was only found on European cars. The car I sold in 2007 to buy my e36 was the last one. 1968 Camaro, 400 small block, 4 speed, no power steering or brakes. It did have a large diameter steering wheel for extra torque.


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