Thinking about a M50NV engine build-Advice?

[wastedincome]

Hey guys, I'm not very educated on the M50 engines and have been considering a build up on a m50nv engine I have kicking around......

I figured it'd need a complete rebuild w/ some tweaking inorder to get some HP out of it....What kind of hp can I get staying N/A and not spending $7-10k?


Looking for some advice......

[David325e]

Talk of S50 internals gets thrown around alot.

looking at this for the vert?

[wastedincome]

Talk of S50 internals gets thrown around alot.

looking at this for the vert?

You talking s50 cams or other parts?? Yup it'd be for the vert as the m42 has just had it and I toasted 2nd gear sycro I'd love to grab a S5X but w/ $$ and I have the m50nv for nuttin.

BTW any clue on the stock HP/TQ ratings??

[attack eagle]

same as the vanos... vanos just gives a slightly fatter curve below torque peak.

m54b30 crank and pistons? rods are supposedly the same length on the NV as everything else but the vanos. maybe grab them to be sure?

[wastedincome]

thanks guys, keep the advice coming as I really want to have some sort of plan

[5mall5nail5]

First determine your own goals - you have to be careful asking for advice as everyone has something to say, but only you can answer what you actually want to accomplish.

An NA build that would make more power but not be $7k... hm.

How about throwing out the M50NV crank, rods, and pistons, getting an M52 crankshaft (I have an extra btw), M52/M52TU/S52/S50 rods at 135mm (or eagle rods for $450, let me know), and an 85.5mm M52 piston in 10.8 - 11.0:1 CR? Crank figure $350, rods $450, pistons $800 (with rings) from wiseco. Thats ~$1500ish and you need some head studs and gasket kit but yeah...

You can't use TU cams in the non vanos motor - you can send them out to Eglin though to be reground.

Almost forgot!

Once you do something like this you need tuning. Punching a motor out to over 2.9L from 2.5L will not work with the same tune it once came with. Keep that in mind.

[Shuasha]

Buy an S52.

/thread.

[wastedincome]

First determine your own goals - you have to be careful asking for advice as everyone has something to say, but only you can answer what you actually want to accomplish.

An NA build that would make more power but not be $7k... hm.

How about throwing out the M50NV crank, rods, and pistons, getting an M52 crankshaft (I have an extra btw), M52/M52TU/S52/S50 rods at 135mm (or eagle rods for $450, let me know), and an 85.5mm M52 piston in 10.8 - 11.0:1 CR? Crank figure $350, rods $450, pistons $800 (with rings) from wiseco. Thats ~$1500ish and you need some head studs and gasket kit but yeah...

You can't use TU cams in the non vanos motor - you can send them out to Eglin though to be reground.




Almost forgot!

Once you do something like this you need tuning. Punching a motor out to over 2.9L from 2.5L will not work with the same tune it once came with. Keep that in mind.

Thats the kind of info I'm looking for.would using a VANOS head help yeild more HP or give a better cam selection?? As far as tuning goes, I figured I'd have a shop local do the tune since I have shops like Tuner motorsports, Schneller, Euro depot, concord MS. BTW any clue on what kind of hp the build up above would yeild??

Buy an S52.

/thread.

I'm trying to avoid that as mentioned in the OP. FWIW what's w/ your built m50nv??

[5mall5nail5]

Well realize no one is going to tune your 402 DME. So you almost have to swap a vanos head if you want a factory ecu in there. You will also need to swap a wiring harness...and ecu...

[Boogieboy]

Save your money and go FI.....after all that work going NA will not get you anything near an FI setup. And after you do that NA setup you will have to change it all back to get some low compression for FI.

[attack eagle]

Well realize no one is going to tune your 402 DME. So you almost have to swap a vanos head if you want a factory ecu in there. You will also need to swap a wiring harness...and ecu...

wtf? no one can do a simple injector sizing change on a 402? well than I'm not changing form the 2.5 then. I don;t want a standalone, and I don;t want vanos.
i want modified factory ecu code for larger injectors+ maf scaling.

[Shuasha]

I'm trying to avoid that as mentioned in the OP. FWIW what's w/ your built m50nv??

It's a high boost turbo setup, which is a completely different than a NA system. Smaller bore size is needed to seal the head.

[1991BMW525i]

i want modified factory ecu code for larger injectors+ maf scaling.

What about the new Miller War Chip?

[attack eagle]

they don't do injectors or maf in the basic version, only pro.

[calypsoe34]

im in the middle of an m50nv build. using s50 crank, 135mm rods, and m50 vanos pistons. gunna bring compression to 11:1 roughly, and make it a 2.85L engine instead of 2.5 lots of people done this and no tuning needed. once you go bigger than 2.9 then your comp fucks you in the butt. way later down the road i want to go for a nice turbo build with a s50 engine, 8:1 compression, and about a 20 psi turbo setup. update us....

[garethashenden]

Thats the kind of info I'm looking for.would using a VANOS head help yeild more HP or give a better cam selection?? As far as tuning goes, I figured I'd have a shop local do the tune since I have shops like Tuner motorsports, Schneller, Euro depot, concord MS. BTW any clue on what kind of hp the build up above would yeild??




I'm trying to avoid that as mentioned in the OP. FWIW what's w/ your built m50nv??

Am i correct in believing that a vanos head cannot be put on a non-vanos block?

[5mall5nail5]

im in the middle of an m50nv build. using s50 crank, 135mm rods, and m50 vanos pistons. gunna bring compression to 11:1 roughly, and make it a 2.85L engine instead of 2.5 lots of people done this and no tuning needed. once you go bigger than 2.9 then your comp fucks you in the butt. way later down the road i want to go for a nice turbo build with a s50 engine, 8:1 compression, and about a 20 psi turbo setup. update us....

Are you sure you've read enough about this yet? You don't think a 15% increase in displacement and totally changing compression and VE requires tuning? EEk.

[BLO]

http://www.bukisa.com/articles/37398...-bmw-1990-1995

You can change the MAF/injectors etc yourself for free. Don't worry about wasting hundreds of dollars on more software that provides nothing that we don't have already. Heres to hoping the pro version is not much more expensive than the basic.

[attack eagle]

cool. If ever buy an old laptop that would be compatible with all that stuff

[calypsoe34]

Are you sure you've read enough about this yet? You don't think a 15% increase in displacement and totally changing compression and VE requires tuning? EEk.

ive heard that you dont from a few members who have done this some setup. do you have different info. please let me know. would be helpful. thanks

[grecobeemer]

Calypsoe what's the cost so far in your build? Sounds like a great project.

im in the middle of an m50nv build. using s50 crank, 135mm rods, and m50 vanos pistons. gunna bring compression to 11:1 roughly, and make it a 2.85L engine instead of 2.5 lots of people done this and no tuning needed. once you go bigger than 2.9 then your comp fucks you in the butt. way later down the road i want to go for a nice turbo build with a s50 engine, 8:1 compression, and about a 20 psi turbo setup. update us....

[VacMan]

You've been on r3vlimited.com before I'm sure, but there's an entire section devoted to swaps and builds. If I didn't live in smogsville I'd freshen up an M50, put some S50 cams in it and toss a turbo on it. All that can easily be done for less than $10k and will give you well over 300rwhp on moderate boost.

[wastedincome]

You've been on r3vlimited.com before I'm sure, but there's an entire section devoted to swaps and builds. If I didn't live in smogsville I'd freshen up an M50, put some S50 cams in it and toss a turbo on it. All that can easily be done for less than $10k and will give you well over 300rwhp on moderate boost.

Yeah, I know r3v. I haven't been over there in a LONG time though. I have been considering going FI but hesitant about losing drivability since its going in the e30 vert

[calypsoe34]

Calypsoe what's the cost so far in your build? Sounds like a great project.

i work at a shop, so getting the bearing rings, gasket kits, head studs, timing chain rails, freeze plugs, and other things all at cost, so that was about $650 and then the s50 cam was $260 shipped and the vanos m50 pistons (with rods, even tho i dont need them because they are 140mm) for $80 bucks so as of ring now.... about 1k...im sure there will be a little be more that i will need.

i may have to upgrade my maf, and injectors. not sure until i get it back in the car however.

YOU MUST MUST MUST KNOW HOWEVER!!!! ON THE M50NV YOU CANNOT PUT THE S50 CAMS IN IT UNFORTUNATELY. THE CAM RAILS ARE DIFFERENT AND THE S50 CAMS DONT BOLT IN.

hope all this helps

[jhower08]

I have an entire broken-down m50nv and the parts from it are looking for a new home