Hello I am new here and this is my first post.
Sorry in advance if this information is to be had in another post, Please direct me to the proper spot.
My 99 528it with coil rear springs shakes so bad the roof rattles.
It is not wheels, tires, cv joints or wheel bearings they have all been replaced.
All of the link joints and bushings have been disassembled and inspected, no loose parts.
the 4 wheel alignment is in spec
the car is lowered.
Car is apart on the rack and I need to rent or buy the tool. I also need the best link to the bushings.
Help
OUO
Well you not going to be able to buy the tool because it's not sold in the USA. It also runs about $600. But regardless, it does NOT sound as the subframe bushings are your issue. On a smooth road bad subframe bushings have no effect, it is only when you hit bumps. Bad bushings do not cause vibrations. You say it's not the tires or wheels but how do you know for sure? Have they been checked on a road force type balancer? Drive shaft issues have also been known to cause illusive vibration problems.
Being on the rack really is not an issue for changing the bushings. With the tool, is very easily done in the garage with just jack stands.
In case you've not already seen it, here is the mega touring bushing thread:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=741511
kbsilver , do you have the tool for rent or the link for the bushings? Do you know who does?
I did see that post, but champaign777 was selling one on this post.
jase007 says he has one for rent.
I do not see how to contact him here and his website has no contact.
The car is on the rack, totally disassembled, to find what is worn out and I want to fix the car now. I don't want to put it back together until I find the problem. Good advise about the floor, I will keep in mind I can do it on the floor. But I have a rack so for now I will continue to work standing up.
The car has a new drive shaft.
The shaking is intermittent after you hit a bump.
The car has been progressively getting worse for 20k.
I have new all season tires on stock 16" wheels, I have summer tires on 18" BMW wheels. I have also switched wheels with a friend that has a sedan. My tires did not shake on his car and my car had no change. My tires have been balanced on 2 different high end machines. They balanced fine and had no run out. When rotated you can not feel any difference in the steering wheel.
The shake comes and goes and has no speed associated with it.
If it shakes at 40mph you can put it in neutral and coast and it still shakes.
When it is smooth it is perfectly smooth.
Thanks for the tip on the tires but tires tend to be a constant shake and a given speed. This is not that way. For a tire to shake this bad it would have to be defective.
4 different sets of tires and no changes would also lead me away from tires.
I have a 1999 528it wagon with 90k on it.
The bushings go bad in this zone.
My bushings are cracked and do not look good.
I want to replace the bushings to be sure they are not the problem.
I appreciate the advice that it might not be the problem but I am out of options to fix this car.
Is there a reason I should not change the bushings?
I was hoping to get a solution for the tool and bushings Monday.
OUO
Sent you a PM.
Last edited by jase007; 01-25-2010 at 01:52 AM.
Changed all of the parts in the photo and it still shakes.
Only found the lower ball joints to be mildly worn, all the other parts felt new.
Changing the sub frame bushings now.
Wanted to do the links first and drive it and then do the bushings to see what differance was made.
OEmbimmerparts.com was great to deal with.
And jase007 was really cool and helpful.
Thank you guys for helping me.
I will post an update when I get the bushing in.
OUO
Last edited by OUO; 02-10-2010 at 03:02 PM.
Installed the bushings, Car is fixed.
It is a good day.
Off to get an alignment.
Looks like i will have to sell this car, I need a car that can haul weight and the way these bushing are installed if you haul anything in the back it ruins the bushings or pushes the bushings out on the sub frame. It is an odd design relying on the rubber to aluminum friction to hold the car up. The car sits about 1/2" taller in the back now.
Good news is it drives right now.
Bad news is unless i want to buy bushings every 30k I should only haul feathers in the back.
OUO
If you only changed the bushings you do not need an alignment.
Most of what you said above is not correct. The bushings and bushing friction have nothing to do with supporting the weight of the car, that is done by the air suspension or springs. The bushings do support the weigh of the rear axle and rear suspension but that is pulling the subframe down against the large bottom part of the bushing, not up. The only time the subframe will be forced up (depending on the bushing friction) is when you hit a bump in the road, the damping action of the shocks will transmit this force. But on average you have the weight of the differential and rear suspension, several hundred lbs, seating the subframe into the bushings.
If the car is higher than before, again has nothing to do with the bushings. Did you move the car to settle the suspension before you measured it?
But I do agree that if we keep our cars long enough, the bushings will need to be replaced again (not in 30K, but any time north of 60K-70K). Unless they have improved the materials as to be more durable.
After replacing all of this I think I should get an alignment.
Where we live there are bumps in the road, lots of them.
Before the bushings the car shook on smooth new roads.
The seats, the mirror, the rear hatch, the roof and the hood all shook like crazy.
It was going to destroy the car by shaking everything loose, it was infuriating.
Now it is all new, axles, wheel bearings, driveline, bushings, links and joints.
The old bushings were really bad, the front ones were the worst, totally torn all the way around. The sub frame was hitting the body of the car and pushing the bushing out of the sub frame.
The more weight you haul the shorter life these bushings will have.
I got the wagon to move things, I wish BMW and a more robust design that matched my needs.
The next thing I need is a tranny. An inexpensive little fix to get my check engine light off. This forum is very helpful, I will search for tranny info here next.
Thanks you kbsilver for all your help.
OUO
Weight should have minimal impact on the bushings. Again the bushings do not support the weight of the car, it's just the increase in mass than must be damped. The percentage change in weight of the car in between empty and full is not all that great.
The iT is a great cargo hauler.
Sent you a PM
Replaced mine today. Took 4 hours total including trip to Autozone for grease.
Thanks for this awesome write up!
I would like to rent the busing tool. Please send me a PM.
-Steve
does anybody know of anybody know of anyone in ireland who hires out this tool or where i can buy it?
Your DIYs are awesome! I just thought I discovered a serious problem with my driver-side rear wheel well clip being detached from the subframe bushing bottom plate, but after seeing that you can remove it by hand, I'm much relieved. Perhaps I do have a problem though. Here's the thread I started:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=1#post5783440
Re Special Tool.
I just finished spending $30 at:
1- Local hardware store
2- Local electrical store
3- Local autoparts store
and guess what: I just compiled a homemade set of "universal bushing, bearing removal kit" using:
1- common plumbing caps, plumbing reducers
2- rigid electrical coupling
3- exhaust reducers
This kit can handle virtually any job out there from:
- FWD car bearing such as Honda Accord bearing
- RWD bearing such as E30, E39 bearing
- Any bushing
It took me a while to gather all info for this tool kit but it is worth every penny. Soon or later you don't need to rent the tool any more. Once you complete this kit, you will be the proud owner of this new toys that can virtually handle any bearing/bushing (sort of) under the sun!
I will post pic later when I have time, too cold now in the garage!
I would like to see those pics!
1998 ///M3/4/5 | 1999 528iT | 2003 Z4 3.0i
Just finished the job myself - looked over the design of the suspension and had a similar impression at first, but look closer - the load in the car is transferred to the wheels through the springs, and only the springs. The subframe bushings are supporting the subframe and the pieces attached to it, like the differential.
No component of load in the car will be transferred to the bushings. The subframe literally hangs from the bottom of the car on those bushings.
If you have a lot of weight in the car, it will have some impact on radial load on the bushings during braking and hard acceleration, and cornering, but since one generally drives a little easier when stuff is loaded in the back, I would not expect that to be hard on the bushings at all.
Also, I saw no need for the paint marks on the bushings - there are plenty of features on the outside of the bushings to let you properly orient the bushings when installing.
[edit2] one additional thought - I disagree with the suggestion to use penetrating oil to ease the removal of the old bushings. This will coat the subframe sleeve with lubricant and, most likely, compromise the adhesion of the new bushing to the sleeve. The sleeve would need to be well cleaned with a good solvent to remove the oil from the surface. The 13-year old bushings in my car pressed out without issue.[/edit2]
Rented the tool and bought the bushings from EAC.
In any case, a pretty laid-back 3 hour job for me - '99 with 109,000 miles - new to me just a few weeks ago. Haven't driven it yet, but I'm confident that the harsh ride issues will be significantly improved.
[edit]The drive to work today had me smiling. Rides like a bimmer should.[/edit]
Last edited by zemlin; 05-02-2011 at 12:20 PM.
The important element of the rear suspension design of the iT is that all the forces generated by the shocks is transferred through the bushings. This is where you get the harsh ride when they have failed. As Zemiln indicated, it has nothing to do with the weight of the cargo.
how do you adjust the rear suspension, so it matches the front which has been lowered? is it just a simple job of altering the position of the ride height sensors?
The rear ride height for the pneumatic suspension is adjusted using a scan tool that will "talk" to the ride height module-Autologic, Autoenginuity, etc. Be aware that you should get a 4 wheel alignment after adjusting ride height.Originally Posted by Dyna Bob Gab
Much modified VF Supercharger Kit tuned by Tuning Tech FS, M5 front sports seats, CVV to catch can conversion, Boost Gauge, Schmiedmann header to rear muffler high flow exhaust, Header Ceramic coated inside & out, Exhaust heat wrapped from flanges after header to before CATs, Kicker sub with dedicated 200 watt amp, CCFL angel eyes, CF facelift kidney grills, Quaife LS diff ,Super duty cooling kit, Electric fan controlled by temperature adjustable 2 speed controller (JimLev design)
John
I just finished this DIY on my '99 Touring using this thread for help and moral support (thank you BlackBMWs!). I bought Febi/Bilstein bushings and rented the special tool from EAC. The job took 9 hours overall, divided over two days. The old bushings wore a "99" date stamp and were therefore original. While performing this job, it's a great time to inspect the rest of your rear suspension (I noticed failed upper-rear control arm ball joints and leaky differential seals!).
Here are my observations:
1) No instructions were included with the special tool from EAC, but it is mostly self-explanatory. This DIY has helpful images too.
2) Disconnect ABS wheel speed and brake pad wear sensor wires from upper-rear control arm or they may strip out of their plastic holding clips! See image.
3) Drop muffler from hangar mount or it will hyper-extend and maybe tear the rubber hangar - and impede your subframe drop too!
4) Since the subframe drops radially (with its fulcrum being the tranny output shaft), the rear subframe bushings need to drop about 3 inches in order to achieve a 2 inch drop on the front bushings.
5) Watch the e-brake cable: a 3-inch subframe drop is about the max before stressing it.
6) Clean the inside of the subframe bushing race with medium steel wool - beautiful results!
7) The 4 screw jacks used to temporarily support the subframe are mostly superfluous. The Bentley manual doesn't mention them either. They are useful as a safeguard against an excessive subframe drop or as an overnight rest (since most hydraulic jacks lose pressure and drop slowly after a few hours). Instead, support the subframe from the differential case using your hydraulic jack. This also allows you to easily adjust the subframe height when working with the bushing tool. The bushing tool works against itself and therefore imparts no forces onto the subframe. Once all four bushings are replaced, simply grab the brake rotors to adjust subframe position as it's raised into place.
8) The special tool makes things easy! Removal requires a modest amount of torque on the screw jack nut, while installation can almost be performed by hand-turning the nut! Use a small brush to coat the rubber lubricant. (No lube needed for removal.)
9) I agree with zemlin regarding marking the bushings before installation: "there are plenty of features on the outside of the bushings to let you properly orient the bushings when installing."
I expected new subframe bushings would produce the same dramatic results that my new front thrust arm bushings did, but only the "slap" and harshness was gone. While an improvement, I still think the rear-end rides a bit stiff sometimes. But this may be the result of the long cargo area over the rear axle and, the ride does improve with people/weight in back.
If you're handy with a wrench, this job is surprisingly easy. Give it a try!
Last edited by Frankie; 06-26-2011 at 03:44 PM.
I just did this on Thursday with the EAC tool.
It was a lot easier than I was expecting, and the results are incredible. I was getting "booming" noises from the rear end over bumps and wasn't happy with how the rear end handled. Nearly everything was fixed in 3.5 hours.
Excellent writeup. I would say that I had some difficulty popping the notched top cap (for inserting the new bushings) off of the subframe after the new bushing was installed. That's about it.
Every Touring owner needs to do this!
:: 1999 BMW 528iT ::
LS3 / T56 swapped
Replaced the bushings yesterday using the Franklin tool, excellent results, car is smoother, quieter, and is planted in the corners, feels like a new car. Best job I've done to date. Selling the tool and threaded rods if any one in the Ireland region is interested.
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