Shortly im getting my car re-flashed in AlphaN (with the siemens) and upgrading the intake manifold. My tuner suggested a set of schrick cams to complment the modifications.
As these are very expensive in Australia, im looking at getting them from overseas. Its easy with the S50B30 as there is a dedicated inlet and exhaust cams.
the confusion comes from the catalog where there are 2 different cams for the 284deg cam listed as ïntake and exhaust (page 6 of catalog). http://www.avl-schrick.com/dat/MK/AV...ICK_2008_E.pdf
1 lists as:
0284 E1 840-0V2 11,9 284/ /129-69 13-91 73-31 0,8-7,95 0,25 470,00 2 Vanos system for intake- and exhaust 3,2 L
the other:
0284 A1 840-0V2 11,9 /284/114-76 72-28 38-66 2,32-7,15 0,25 470,00 2 Vanos system for intake- and exhaust 3,2 L
not sure if they are intake and exhaust ones or 2 different specs of the cams.,
Also want to ask about the larger (296deg) cam. it has more lift (12.4mm vs 11.9mm for the 284). its states that upgrading the lifters/valve springs/ retainers are recommended. is there anything else needed for this upgrade?
is this cam reasonably drivable?
My car is still used for some road use so a lopey idle is not really an issue.
thanx in advance
gaz
BMW’s
90 E34 M5
84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
97 Z3 2.8
97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c
OTHERS
11 Audi S5 APR stg2
19 Volkswagen Amarok V6
A = exhuast
E = intake
If talking to some S14 guys is similar, some people say that 292 cams are still a street cam and some even drive on the street with 3xx cams. Best I can tell is it depends on the tune.
It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.
Turning Benjamins into noise since 1997
I read a list of the 100 things you MUST do before you die. Funny, "Yelling 'HELP'" didn't make the list!
You may want to consider Sunbelt regrinds. They've seen more S50B32 engines than most builders around the world, and they custom grind their own profiles or regrind existing cams. I haven't heard any great comments about Schrick cams on S50B32 or S54B32 engines.
James Muskopf
RRT Racing
DC Metro's premier BMW service and racing facility
284 is a good street cam.
I think stock is 262?
'99 Estoril Blue + Dove Grey ///M3 coupe
'04 Jet Black + Cinnamon ///M3 coupe
thanx.
it would be nice if they listed this on the catalog rather than guessing.
yeah not sure about the 296 grind, and if i went this way it seems i would need to spend up big on valvetrain hardware or risk expensive broken things. also with the 284 i would not need to get mapped immediatly were the 296 i would imagine not run well on the std maps (unless someone can tell otherwise).
there is not very much information on these cams.
I heard little bits on the sunbelt. do they work well with S50b32?
BMW’s
90 E34 M5
84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
97 Z3 2.8
97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c
OTHERS
11 Audi S5 APR stg2
19 Volkswagen Amarok V6
I wouldn't upgrade the cams without doing the software...what's the point?
From what I have heard the Sunbelts work well, but the data is a lot less than on the Sunbelts for the US motor. For a car that sees the street I'd probably lean towards the Schricks as Sunblet really builds race motors not street motors so their cams may be a bit too aggressive for the street.
It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.
Turning Benjamins into noise since 1997
I read a list of the 100 things you MUST do before you die. Funny, "Yelling 'HELP'" didn't make the list!
yeah i will be tuning it about 1month or so after cam goes in.
im favoring the 284's but dont wanna rule out the 296's if i could get some info on how the s50b32 runs with them, especially how reasonable they are for bottom end. nothing worse than going a cam swap and wishing u went 1 size bigger than u did. Id hate to get selection wrong, considering the expense of doing it
BMW’s
90 E34 M5
84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
97 Z3 2.8
97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c
OTHERS
11 Audi S5 APR stg2
19 Volkswagen Amarok V6
Hi GAz,
Interested in the results of your research for my M Coupe race car. Keep me posted on what you find.
Cheers
Brian
+1
Gaz,
Do you have plans of altering the vanos control with the new cam this should minimise any lowend losses?
the prob with altering the vanos is you have to map for every variation, and i would have to go with aftermarket autronic or motec ECU to do so. who knows maybe down the track when others have done so, but doing this as pioneer could be a dramatic wallet emptying experiance.
if someone could write some plug and play software for this that alters the vanos as well, then this would be more feasable
whth the 284cam from all reports the bottom end losses will be small.
BMW’s
90 E34 M5
84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
97 Z3 2.8
97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c
OTHERS
11 Audi S5 APR stg2
19 Volkswagen Amarok V6
My understanding is that you can make more power if you use the cams from Shrick that are greater duration than 284......
But there is a big "but" involved.
First of all, to make that power, you're going to have to rev higher than stock redline, high enough beyond 8000, that you're going to have to use improved springs and lighter valve train, ie new buckets and retainers.
These items will not last long at these higher redlines, and thus become a wear item needing routine maint, ie not going to last long before failure. They're also expensive.
Second, you're going to have to bump compression significantly (ie custom pistons) to make the real world compression high enough to make more power with >284 cams. Again more money.
These two reasons (I'm told) are the meat-and-potatoes of why Shrick specifies 284's as the widest street application. You can use these with just a re-tune of the dme safely and preserve longevity, and use stock hardware.
Sunbelt may or may not reveal the specs of their regrinds. They may or may not do specific regrinds for different compressions. You'd have to make absolutely clear they know what kind of engine they are grinding for. They have an EXCELLENT reputation for cam design and building for race motors. But, if they sell you cam that is designed for 12.5 compression, no amount of tuning is going to get the most out of it unless you change pistons, or modify your engine to achieve the designed for compression. There are more ways to "measure" a cam than just duration, and that is where Sunbelt excells, so even if they design a 284 for you, they can and probably will be able to exheed (by profile) the Shricks 284's performance.
TMI?
Alex Lipowich
xyobgyn on AOL
Trying to make the world a better place with 5 extra throttle bodies at a time.
that is EXACTLY what i was told when i upgraded to the 284 cams in my 3.0 m3.
if i wanted a 'bigger cam' (which shrick do) it would require upgrades to the valve train to be able to cope. which i suppose is why shrick dont recommned anything above 284 for the street .
the 284's went in with new shims etc and the car drove fine (with a nice lumpy idle) but it really came 'alive' after a new tune and custom chip was put into it.
Mods: Vortech V2, 383RWHP, AP Racing brakes,
Milltek exhaust, Bilstein PSS9 coilovers,
Light flywheel, M5 clutch, MA Shaw hood,
19' ROH Modenas, LTW Rims, Motec M600
its just that the S54 reportedly has a huge amount potential in this area according to HPF, perhaps the S50B32 is the same
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=806517
im not brave enough to get the 296 cams without upgrading all the other drivetrian stuff.
we now have cash in hand looking for a low cost supplier. Looking at around $400 uk pounds each, which seems pretty expensive once we convert to au$ but hey if anyone knows where to source these from drop me a line. I have 2 sets of cams req'd so far (1x s50b30, & 1x s50b32).
BMW’s
90 E34 M5
84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
97 Z3 2.8
97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c
OTHERS
11 Audi S5 APR stg2
19 Volkswagen Amarok V6
Hey Gaz,
I checked one of the main suppliers of Schrick cams in Germany for prices. 284s for both single and dual VANOS run about 470 Euros (927.31 AUS, 415 British Pound).
Not sure how much shipping would be to Australia, but it's already barely scraping your 400 Pound budget. Anybody else know of a better source? Maybe get it from a country where the exchange rate isn't as nuts right now?
Sorry, that's all i know
"When I raced a car last it was at a time when sex was safe and racing was dangerous. Now, it's the other way round." -Hans Stuck
there is bugger all info on the 296cams used in s50b32. only ones i know who have used them is bexley motor works in the UK on one of thier khumo cup cars.
the hassle i have is the cams are so danm expensive i dont wanna be a guinea pig and find they are not suitable, and then be kicked in the financial testicles (ouch).
yeah 400ukpounds looks like the going rate. i may have to just shut the %$@# up with my whinging about the cost, and get them organised
Last edited by MauiM3Mania; 04-11-2009 at 01:37 AM. Reason: Profanity
BMW’s
90 E34 M5
84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
97 Z3 2.8
97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c
OTHERS
11 Audi S5 APR stg2
19 Volkswagen Amarok V6
This might be a little late, but CA Automotive in the UK do Stage 1 Schrick cams (284s) for either the 3.0 or 3.2L euro for about 710 pounds to australia (not incl shipping), and in AUD I worked it to be about $2500 once you pay taxes and freight. If you want the easy option, the distributor for CA in Qld does cams for 2600 a pair delivered. If you can get them cheaper let me know, as I'm looking for my 3.0L.
Cheers
just bought some 283 BMW motorsport cams for $700AUD, should be interesting
cheers, Alan
1/4 mile-12.92 @ 108.64mph-NA 3.0L m3 daily driver
you mean that i can use the 296 cams on my stock valvetrain and retainers on
my s50 b32
are you sure ?
nice one
on the subject of 296cam with stock retainers, on the schrick calalog it states that they recommend upgrading them but its not mandatory., but far from100%. the lift is higher also, there are too many unkowns with the 296cam for me to risk lots of funds on a wrong selection. Most ppl i heard of putting this cam in end up deleting the vanos and have standalone engine management. for a car that is reguarly street driven also if vanos deleted etc may really kill the bottom end torque
BMW’s
90 E34 M5
84 E24 M635csi standalone ecu with coil on plug
94 E34 540i/6 SC 5-17psi Flex fuel/standalone ecu
97 Z3 2.8
97 E36 M3 euro SC still u/c
OTHERS
11 Audi S5 APR stg2
19 Volkswagen Amarok V6
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