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Thread: Camshaft upgrade advice S50B32

  1. #1
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    Camshaft upgrade advice S50B32

    Shortly im getting my car re-flashed in AlphaN (with the siemens) and upgrading the intake manifold. My tuner suggested a set of schrick cams to complment the modifications.

    As these are very expensive in Australia, im looking at getting them from overseas. Its easy with the S50B30 as there is a dedicated inlet and exhaust cams.

    the confusion comes from the catalog where there are 2 different cams for the 284deg cam listed as ïntake and exhaust (page 6 of catalog). http://www.avl-schrick.com/dat/MK/AV...ICK_2008_E.pdf

    1 lists as:
    0284 E1 840-0V2 11,9 284/ /129-69 13-91 73-31 0,8-7,95 0,25 470,00 2 Vanos system for intake- and exhaust 3,2 L

    the other:
    0284 A1 840-0V2 11,9 /284/114-76 72-28 38-66 2,32-7,15 0,25 470,00 2 Vanos system for intake- and exhaust 3,2 L

    not sure if they are intake and exhaust ones or 2 different specs of the cams.,



    Also want to ask about the larger (296deg) cam. it has more lift (12.4mm vs 11.9mm for the 284). its states that upgrading the lifters/valve springs/ retainers are recommended. is there anything else needed for this upgrade?
    is this cam reasonably drivable?

    My car is still used for some road use so a lopey idle is not really an issue.

    thanx in advance
    gaz
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  2. #2
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    A = exhuast
    E = intake

    If talking to some S14 guys is similar, some people say that 292 cams are still a street cam and some even drive on the street with 3xx cams. Best I can tell is it depends on the tune.
    It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.

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  3. #3
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    You may want to consider Sunbelt regrinds. They've seen more S50B32 engines than most builders around the world, and they custom grind their own profiles or regrind existing cams. I haven't heard any great comments about Schrick cams on S50B32 or S54B32 engines.
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  4. #4
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    284 is a good street cam.

    I think stock is 262?
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobuffs View Post
    A = exhuast
    E = intake

    If talking to some S14 guys is similar, some people say that 292 cams are still a street cam and some even drive on the street with 3xx cams. Best I can tell is it depends on the tune.
    thanx.

    it would be nice if they listed this on the catalog rather than guessing.

    yeah not sure about the 296 grind, and if i went this way it seems i would need to spend up big on valvetrain hardware or risk expensive broken things. also with the 284 i would not need to get mapped immediatly were the 296 i would imagine not run well on the std maps (unless someone can tell otherwise).

    there is not very much information on these cams.

    I heard little bits on the sunbelt. do they work well with S50b32?
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  6. #6
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    I wouldn't upgrade the cams without doing the software...what's the point?

    From what I have heard the Sunbelts work well, but the data is a lot less than on the Sunbelts for the US motor. For a car that sees the street I'd probably lean towards the Schricks as Sunblet really builds race motors not street motors so their cams may be a bit too aggressive for the street.
    It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.

    Turning Benjamins into noise since 1997

    I read a list of the 100 things you MUST do before you die. Funny, "Yelling 'HELP'" didn't make the list!

  7. #7
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    yeah i will be tuning it about 1month or so after cam goes in.

    im favoring the 284's but dont wanna rule out the 296's if i could get some info on how the s50b32 runs with them, especially how reasonable they are for bottom end. nothing worse than going a cam swap and wishing u went 1 size bigger than u did. Id hate to get selection wrong, considering the expense of doing it
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  8. #8
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    Hi GAz,

    Interested in the results of your research for my M Coupe race car. Keep me posted on what you find.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    +1

  10. #10
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    Gaz,

    Do you have plans of altering the vanos control with the new cam this should minimise any lowend losses?

  11. #11
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    the prob with altering the vanos is you have to map for every variation, and i would have to go with aftermarket autronic or motec ECU to do so. who knows maybe down the track when others have done so, but doing this as pioneer could be a dramatic wallet emptying experiance.

    if someone could write some plug and play software for this that alters the vanos as well, then this would be more feasable

    whth the 284cam from all reports the bottom end losses will be small.
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  12. #12
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    RE: My opinion, not fact

    My understanding is that you can make more power if you use the cams from Shrick that are greater duration than 284......

    But there is a big "but" involved.

    First of all, to make that power, you're going to have to rev higher than stock redline, high enough beyond 8000, that you're going to have to use improved springs and lighter valve train, ie new buckets and retainers.

    These items will not last long at these higher redlines, and thus become a wear item needing routine maint, ie not going to last long before failure. They're also expensive.

    Second, you're going to have to bump compression significantly (ie custom pistons) to make the real world compression high enough to make more power with >284 cams. Again more money.

    These two reasons (I'm told) are the meat-and-potatoes of why Shrick specifies 284's as the widest street application. You can use these with just a re-tune of the dme safely and preserve longevity, and use stock hardware.

    Sunbelt may or may not reveal the specs of their regrinds. They may or may not do specific regrinds for different compressions. You'd have to make absolutely clear they know what kind of engine they are grinding for. They have an EXCELLENT reputation for cam design and building for race motors. But, if they sell you cam that is designed for 12.5 compression, no amount of tuning is going to get the most out of it unless you change pistons, or modify your engine to achieve the designed for compression. There are more ways to "measure" a cam than just duration, and that is where Sunbelt excells, so even if they design a 284 for you, they can and probably will be able to exheed (by profile) the Shricks 284's performance.

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by M3 Euro LTW View Post
    My understanding is that you can make more power if you use the cams from Shrick that are greater duration than 284......

    But there is a big "but" involved.

    First of all, to make that power, you're going to have to rev higher than stock redline, high enough beyond 8000, that you're going to have to use improved springs and lighter valve train, ie new buckets and retainers.

    These items will not last long at these higher redlines, and thus become a wear item needing routine maint, ie not going to last long before failure. They're also expensive.

    Second, you're going to have to bump compression significantly (ie custom pistons) to make the real world compression high enough to make more power with >284 cams. Again more money.

    These two reasons (I'm told) are the meat-and-potatoes of why Shrick specifies 284's as the widest street application. You can use these with just a re-tune of the dme safely and preserve longevity, and use stock hardware.

    Sunbelt may or may not reveal the specs of their regrinds. They may or may not do specific regrinds for different compressions. You'd have to make absolutely clear they know what kind of engine they are grinding for. They have an EXCELLENT reputation for cam design and building for race motors. But, if they sell you cam that is designed for 12.5 compression, no amount of tuning is going to get the most out of it unless you change pistons, or modify your engine to achieve the designed for compression. There are more ways to "measure" a cam than just duration, and that is where Sunbelt excells, so even if they design a 284 for you, they can and probably will be able to exheed (by profile) the Shricks 284's performance.

    TMI?
    that is EXACTLY what i was told when i upgraded to the 284 cams in my 3.0 m3.
    if i wanted a 'bigger cam' (which shrick do) it would require upgrades to the valve train to be able to cope. which i suppose is why shrick dont recommned anything above 284 for the street .
    the 284's went in with new shims etc and the car drove fine (with a nice lumpy idle) but it really came 'alive' after a new tune and custom chip was put into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GazM3 View Post
    the prob with altering the vanos is you have to map for every variation, and i would have to go with aftermarket autronic or motec ECU to do so. who knows maybe down the track when others have done so, but doing this as pioneer could be a dramatic wallet emptying experiance.

    if someone could write some plug and play software for this that alters the vanos as well, then this would be more feasable

    whth the 284cam from all reports the bottom end losses will be small.
    its just that the S54 reportedly has a huge amount potential in this area according to HPF, perhaps the S50B32 is the same

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=806517

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazM3 View Post
    yeah i will be tuning it about 1month or so after cam goes in.

    im favoring the 284's but dont wanna rule out the 296's if i could get some info on how the s50b32 runs with them, especially how reasonable they are for bottom end. nothing worse than going a cam swap and wishing u went 1 size bigger than u did. Id hate to get selection wrong, considering the expense of doing it
    Let me know if you proceeded with the 296. I am considering it too for my Eurospec S50B30.
    This is where true music is made...

  16. #16
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    im not brave enough to get the 296 cams without upgrading all the other drivetrian stuff.

    we now have cash in hand looking for a low cost supplier. Looking at around $400 uk pounds each, which seems pretty expensive once we convert to au$ but hey if anyone knows where to source these from drop me a line. I have 2 sets of cams req'd so far (1x s50b30, & 1x s50b32).
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  17. #17
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    Hey Gaz,

    I checked one of the main suppliers of Schrick cams in Germany for prices. 284s for both single and dual VANOS run about 470 Euros (927.31 AUS, 415 British Pound).

    Not sure how much shipping would be to Australia, but it's already barely scraping your 400 Pound budget. Anybody else know of a better source? Maybe get it from a country where the exchange rate isn't as nuts right now?

    Sorry, that's all i know

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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazM3 View Post
    im not brave enough to get the 296 cams without upgrading all the other drivetrian stuff.

    we now have cash in hand looking for a low cost supplier. Looking at around $400 uk pounds each, which seems pretty expensive once we convert to au$ but hey if anyone knows where to source these from drop me a line. I have 2 sets of cams req'd so far (1x s50b30, & 1x s50b32).
    According to the schrick brochure the 296 is a stage 2 cam. And according to the shop owner they dont need the upgraded valvetrain. The stock retainers post 95 are nitride coated. I am a bit confused too but thats what the brochure say.
    This is where true music is made...

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by camlob View Post
    According to the schrick brochure the 296 is a stage 2 cam. And according to the shop owner they dont need the upgraded valvetrain. The stock retainers post 95 are nitride coated. I am a bit confused too but thats what the brochure say.
    there is bugger all info on the 296cams used in s50b32. only ones i know who have used them is bexley motor works in the UK on one of thier khumo cup cars.

    the hassle i have is the cams are so danm expensive i dont wanna be a guinea pig and find they are not suitable, and then be kicked in the financial testicles (ouch).

    yeah 400ukpounds looks like the going rate. i may have to just shut the %$@# up with my whinging about the cost, and get them organised
    Last edited by MauiM3Mania; 04-11-2009 at 01:37 AM. Reason: Profanity
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  20. #20
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    This might be a little late, but CA Automotive in the UK do Stage 1 Schrick cams (284s) for either the 3.0 or 3.2L euro for about 710 pounds to australia (not incl shipping), and in AUD I worked it to be about $2500 once you pay taxes and freight. If you want the easy option, the distributor for CA in Qld does cams for 2600 a pair delivered. If you can get them cheaper let me know, as I'm looking for my 3.0L.

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  21. #21
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    just bought some 283 BMW motorsport cams for $700AUD, should be interesting
    cheers, Alan



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  22. #22
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    you mean that i can use the 296 cams on my stock valvetrain and retainers on
    my s50 b32

    are you sure ?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by morerevsm3 View Post
    just bought some 283 BMW motorsport cams for $700AUD, should be interesting
    Where did you source those cams from?!

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by morerevsm3 View Post
    just bought some 283 BMW motorsport cams for $700AUD, should be interesting
    nice one



    on the subject of 296cam with stock retainers, on the schrick calalog it states that they recommend upgrading them but its not mandatory., but far from100%. the lift is higher also, there are too many unkowns with the 296cam for me to risk lots of funds on a wrong selection. Most ppl i heard of putting this cam in end up deleting the vanos and have standalone engine management. for a car that is reguarly street driven also if vanos deleted etc may really kill the bottom end torque
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by GazM3 View Post
    nice one



    on the subject of 296cam with stock retainers, on the schrick calalog it states that they recommend upgrading them but its not mandatory., but far from100%. the lift is higher also, there are too many unkowns with the 296cam for me to risk lots of funds on a wrong selection. Most ppl i heard of putting this cam in end up deleting the vanos and have standalone engine management. for a car that is reguarly street driven also if vanos deleted etc may really kill the bottom end torque
    This is odd because in the Schrick catalog the 296 cams for the S50B30 don't require any valve train reinforcements, but they're required for the S50B32? Even though supposedly the S50B32 is said to have a stronger valve train, hence the higher redline over the S50B30...

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