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Thread: Feeler: Open Source OBC Firmware

  1. #176
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    Cool Nice...

    It is good to see this is going farther then the initial idea. I would love to see this a reality.


  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by fPortal View Post
    It is good to see this is going farther then the initial idea. I would love to see this a reality.
    I haven't seen much reality YET. Anxiously awaiting though.

  3. #178
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    You must have missed post #169 then. Intercepting german ascii going to the lcd board is unmistakably real, and once he gets the initialization worked out he will be sending ascii to the lcd board. In fact, it might even be english ascii. And, as has already been stated - once sending text to the display is taken care of, the fun will really begin. At that point development won't just be limited to the few who have spare obc's and fancy electronics. Hopefully we'll see a web site and git repository go up, and hopefully we'll be programming in C so many folks can join in.

    EDIT: Speaking of which, has any consideration gone in to which compiler will be targeted?
    Last edited by benemorius; 03-29-2009 at 07:21 AM.

  4. #179
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    could it be possible to have something like this on an e30?

  5. #180
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    Thanks for keeping this thread alive!

    The initial c compiler we'll be targettimg is the PICC compiler from Epic Labs. It's the one I'm most familiar with.

    The only bad news is there's no really good free PIC c compilers out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sigsaucer647 View Post
    could it be possible to have something like this on an e30?
    Yes it's possible with the correct wiring although some functions would not work such as fuel economy calculator, etc.

    Also you'd need an OBC from an E36.
    Last edited by m2pc; 03-29-2009 at 09:21 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  6. #181
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    Definetly going somewhere. The pc based logic analyzer is limited to 32K, so I wrote some C code to basically do the same on 512K or 1Msamples, and I am in the process of reading that data back.

    Regarding those nice ideas, we could record voice on the microSD card, and play it back on a SPI based DAC, but I don't know if we have enough real estate in the board. Recall we want the same functionallity of the stock one, and I don't see too many oportunities to gain space, but if there is any room to draw that, we would definetly do that. It will probably have a LINE OUT and the user will have to find a way to integrate that to the audio/use an external amp, because I know for a fact that there will be absolutely no space for a bulky 3W audio amp on this main board.

    Also, who will take on the task of finding that super hot german chick and recruit her for the project?

  7. #182
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    I don't know how it compares to what everyone else is used to, but SDCC is the only compiler I've ever used for pic18 devices and it hasn't let me down. You might consider it if your decision isn't firm. It's free, open source, and supports both windows and linux. In other words, I am selfish and would force my choice of compiler on others just so I don't need a virtual windows environment to develop in.

    Could I beg you to take a moment to share what you have on the display drivers? I'm getting the itch to pull out my obc and start tinkering, but mostly I'm just curious so don't take the time if you don't have the time.

    Sure we could do it the "accepted" way and use a real dac, but I say lets do it the efficient way and let the pic drive the audio signal directly with one of the pwm outputs. My current setup consists of a pic18 with the pwm output and a gpio for amp-on running directly to the harness behind the factory stereo. It's been forever since I last messed with it, but I think it's running at 8 bit resolution and 44khz and I must say it sounds just fine. Not that it needs to run at 44hkz - I'm just pointing out that it can. Dropping the sample rate would clearly free up instruction time for other code, if it's even an issue at all. And if you truly insist on committing board space to a dac, then at least make it an mp3/ogg decoder with a dac built in. That way the obc can be a bona fide mp3 player.

    As for the german chick: If I remember correctly, I'm using an att german synthesized voice right now and let me assure everyone that it is NOT sufficient. This is a bimmer board. Someone knows a german chick. Someone needs to speak up.

  8. #183
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    Sorry about the delay, I've been quite busy with my day job... I'll summarize the data interface thing and post it shortly, but gotta control the itching in some other way, this project will be a marathon, not a sprint.
    I think the project steps look like this:

    - define requirements (done, great job everyone)
    - understand screen interface (90% done Mefis/m2pc)
    - understand check module comm (pending)
    - copy everything else from the old board into the new one (~70% Mefis/m2pc)
    - draw the new board, and order samples (IP, Mefis)
    - buy parts, maybe set up prototype "kits" for other contributors (pending)
    - everybody assemble their own OBC (pending)
    - develop software beyond basic functions (everyone available)
    - develop the CAN/E36 bus protocoll (everyone available)


    One of the big items missing is the check control module interface. If you feel like disassembling something, could you disassemble the check module and provide details of the inner circuits? Long ago i saw it out and i recall rather simple digital IC inside, we are not sure if this is a SPI-type bus which is what it looks like from the signal names. THis will affect the design of the new board.

    If the voice can be done with the PWM, would be awesome.... i'm all for saving real estate and cost.
    Last edited by Mefis; 04-02-2009 at 03:32 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mefis View Post
    One of the big items missing is the check control module interface. If you feel like disassembling something, could you disassemble the check module and provide details of the inner circuits? Long ago i saw it out and i recall rather simple digital IC inside, we are not sure if this is a SPI-type bus which is what it looks like from the signal names. THis will affect the design of the new board.
    Ah good call. I've been wanting to write a diy on making the check control module function normally with hids anyway. That ought to scratch the itch.

    ---

    Minor update while I wait for my portable scope to charge. It looks like the status bits from the check control module are clocked out by an 8 bit shift register. Three pins will likely be required on the pic: one for clock output, one for latch output, and one for serial input.

    ---

    I'm rather tired so I'll post this now and check it for errors and add missing details later.

    hardware details:

    inputs to the ccm are idle high and have pullups
    inputs to the ccm are schmidt trigger and vcc is battery voltage
    output from ccm is idle high and does not have a pullup
    output from ccm is driven low by a transistor obscured by epoxy


    software details:

    drive latch and clock low
    wait a few ns
    send 8 clocks and read data on falling edge
    idle latch and clock

    Bit 4ish is low beam failure. The rest can be determined later when we get some hardware hooked up to it.

    Oh, and if we come up short on i/o pins we could do the latch output in hardware instead, but that would cost more board space.
    Last edited by benemorius; 04-02-2009 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost - can't stand it

  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mefis View Post
    Definetly going somewhere. The pc based logic analyzer is limited to 32K, so I wrote some C code to basically do the same on 512K or 1Msamples, and I am in the process of reading that data back.
    Excellent; I recently installed a lower frequency crystal in my test OBC (1.8432 MHz vs. the stock 4.9152 MHz) an have a set of Python scripts ready to analyze the data dump.
    Hopefully with both of us hacking away at this we can decode this thing and move on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Mefis View Post
    Regarding those nice ideas, we could record voice on the microSD card, and play it back on a SPI based DAC, but I don't know if we have enough real estate in the board. Recall we want the same functionallity of the stock one, and I don't see too many oportunities to gain space, but if there is any room to draw that, we would definetly do that. It will probably have a LINE OUT and the user will have to find a way to integrate that to the audio/use an external amp, because I know for a fact that there will be absolutely no space for a bulky 3W audio amp on this main board.
    While I like the idea of these "multimedia" enhancements, I believe the openOBC needs to be more of a "hub" to connect sensors and get basic text information, with other more advanced features left for a carPC to perform.

    We're working with very tight board space, hardware, and cost constraints, so I'd rather focus on nailing down the "basic" functionality first before we go into the realm of SD cards and audio processing.

    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    Ah good call. I've been wanting to write a diy on making the check control module function normally with hids anyway. That ought to scratch the itch.

    ---

    Minor update while I wait for my portable scope to charge. It looks like the status bits from the check control module are clocked out by an 8 bit shift register. Three pins will likely be required on the pic: one for clock output, one for latch output, and one for serial input.

    ---

    I'm rather tired so I'll post this now and check it for errors and add missing details later.

    hardware details:

    inputs to the ccm are idle high and have pullups
    inputs to the ccm are schmidt trigger and vcc is battery voltage
    output from ccm is idle high and does not have a pullup
    output from ccm is driven low by a transistor obscured by epoxy


    software details:

    drive latch and clock low
    wait a few ns
    send 8 clocks and read data on falling edge
    idle latch and clock

    Bit 4ish is low beam failure. The rest can be determined later when we get some hardware hooked up to it.

    Oh, and if we come up short on i/o pins we could do the latch output in hardware instead, but that would cost more board space.
    Wow great info man! I suspected the CCM was a simple serial shift-register type device, from seeing the DATA, LAT, and CLK lines in my Bentley diagrams.

    Speaking of which, is there a detailed diagram (haven't checked and don't recall seeing one) showing the lines into the CCM?

    This would help us be able to determine which bits are which in the data stream by disconnecting various external lines.

    I guess we could manually trigger these events too; unplug the coolant sensor for "check coolant level" warning, unplug your headlight for "low beam failure", tail light for "tail light failure", etc.

    Does anyone have a list of all possible CHECK CONTROL messages?
    Presumably there can be only 8 if each bit is dedicated to one fault state.
    Last edited by m2pc; 04-02-2009 at 01:41 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  11. #186
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    I couldn't find one anywhere but I made this while going over the ccm.
    1 coolant level or brake circuit???
    2 coolant level or brake circuit???
    3 clk
    4 n/c
    5 lat
    6 12v
    7 data
    8 left low beam power
    9 brake light power
    10 left tail power
    11 right tail power
    12 left low beam monitored
    13 right low beam monitored
    14 license plate power
    15 right low beam power

    1 left license monitored
    2 right license monitored
    3 right tail???
    4 right tail monitored
    5 left tail???
    6 left tail monitored
    7 brake light???
    8 right brake monitored
    9 ground
    10 right tail
    11 right tail???
    12 left tail
    13 left tail???
    14 high stop
    15 left brake monitored
    That's the white connector followed by the black one. Eight lights are monitored as indicated. Those not indicated are not. The first two pins do not appear in any wiring diagram and I haven't tracked them down. They run to the shift register and I know the obc has messages for low coolant level and brake circuit fail, so I wrote them in as uncertain.

    That gives us 8 lights and 2 other inputs. Following traces around with the epoxy coating everything is annoying so I can't say for sure how those 10 inputs will translate down to the 8 available bits, but it looks like we might be able to one-up the factory obc and actually specify whether a right or left light has failed for some light groups. Either that or some bits are unused.

    Am I the only one who sees reason to suspect that one of the einheit values in the obc could be a bitmask for the ccm enabling one to ignore certain status bits? I know you can change the first value to completely disable the ccm, but I'm pretty sure the second value is 0xFF. I think I'm going to put my ccm back in and try 0xEF.

  12. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    It looks like the status bits from the check control module are clocked out by an 8 bit shift register. Three pins will likely be required on the pic: one for clock output, one for latch output, and one for serial input.
    Is that a 74HC/40 series shift register? can you post the chip name?

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    I don't know how it compares to what everyone else is used to, but SDCC is the only compiler I've ever used for pic18 devices and it hasn't let me down. You might consider it if your decision isn't firm. It's free, open source, and supports both windows and linux. In other words, I am selfish and would force my choice of compiler on others just so I don't need a virtual windows environment to develop in.

    Could I beg you to take a moment to share what you have on the display drivers? I'm getting the itch to pull out my obc and start tinkering, but mostly I'm just curious so don't take the time if you don't have the time.

    Sure we could do it the "accepted" way and use a real dac, but I say lets do it the efficient way and let the pic drive the audio signal directly with one of the pwm outputs. My current setup consists of a pic18 with the pwm output and a gpio for amp-on running directly to the harness behind the factory stereo. It's been forever since I last messed with it, but I think it's running at 8 bit resolution and 44khz and I must say it sounds just fine. Not that it needs to run at 44hkz - I'm just pointing out that it can. Dropping the sample rate would clearly free up instruction time for other code, if it's even an issue at all. And if you truly insist on committing board space to a dac, then at least make it an mp3/ogg decoder with a dac built in. That way the obc can be a bona fide mp3 player.

    As for the german chick: If I remember correctly, I'm using an att german synthesized voice right now and let me assure everyone that it is NOT sufficient. This is a bimmer board. Someone knows a german chick. Someone needs to speak up.
    I'm fine with switching to SDCC if that will make it easier for people to contribute to the project.

    I've only had experience with PICC/PICC-Lite, which is why I initially chose that compiler.

    Can you refresh my memory on SDCC? I recall checking it out but found it was lacking in some areas so I moved on to PICC.

    Does it have complete support for 18Fxxx devices?

    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    I couldn't find one anywhere but I made this while going over the ccm.


    That's the white connector followed by the black one. Eight lights are monitored as indicated. Those not indicated are not. The first two pins do not appear in any wiring diagram and I haven't tracked them down. They run to the shift register and I know the obc has messages for low coolant level and brake circuit fail, so I wrote them in as uncertain.

    That gives us 8 lights and 2 other inputs. Following traces around with the epoxy coating everything is annoying so I can't say for sure how those 10 inputs will translate down to the 8 available bits, but it looks like we might be able to one-up the factory obc and actually specify whether a right or left light has failed for some light groups. Either that or some bits are unused.

    Am I the only one who sees reason to suspect that one of the einheit values in the obc could be a bitmask for the ccm enabling one to ignore certain status bits? I know you can change the first value to completely disable the ccm, but I'm pretty sure the second value is 0xFF. I think I'm going to put my ccm back in and try 0xEF.
    Again, thanks for the excellent info! I'll be sure to post this on openobc.org in the knowledgebase once it's online!

    I've always suspected the "EINHEIT" numbers were bitmasks of some sort.
    It makes total sense because certain years/locales had certain options present/not present, so a bitmask would be necessary to filter out things that aren't connected or used.

    My suspicion is that the OBC performs an "AND" logic operation with the shift register byte and the EINHEIT setting(s) and the result is the non-used inputs are permanently set to "OK" status, whatever that may be (1 or 0).

    Update: I reconnected my logic analyzer to the OBC and built a dedicated small form-factor XP box to serve as the logic analyzer PC for my test setup. More details to follow!
    Last edited by m2pc; 04-03-2009 at 03:49 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  14. #189
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    I can't read the entire part number on the shift register. Phillips HEF4[80] is all I can see and I can't tell whether that's an 8 or a 0. Honestly I'm only assuming that a shift register is what it is. It seemed the most sensible possibility out of everything google threw at me, and after fully probing everything I see no evidence to the contrary.

    SDCC is severely lacking in the pic16 department, but not pic18. They still officially consider pic support to be a work in progress, though the reason eludes me. Maybe I just expect less out of it then everyone else does, but I doubt it.
    http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/

    Well it turns out can isn't used on the e36, so scratch the can controller off the bom. The two wires that appear on wiring diagrams are actually k-line and l-line. The protocols used are iso-9141 and kw71 and I think we'll be able to talk to it through uart with some level conversion. The trouble is that the vehicle does not use these lines for inter-module communication during normal operation. They are only used when a diagnostic unit is connected and begins querying various modules. I can't find any usable information on how to speak kw71 and without any such diagnostic unit to provide signals to reverse engineer I'm at somewhat of a dead end. If I could spend $150 on a diagnostic interface right now or lived close to someone else who owned something suitable, perhaps I could get somewhere. But I can't and I don't.
    Last edited by benemorius; 04-03-2009 at 08:24 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  15. #190
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    But what is happening when you go into the "secret" modes of the odometer and the climate control? You get RPM and other data right? And that data is available without any diagnosis device connected, and the car runs right? It must be flowing through those pins.
    So there is a way to have the bus and the car running or??

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mefis View Post
    But what is happening when you go into the "secret" modes of the odometer and the climate control? You get RPM and other data right? And that data is available without any diagnosis device connected, and the car runs right? It must be flowing through those pins.
    So there is a way to have the bus and the car running or??
    Well RPM signal is a simple square wave available in the harness going to the Climate Control and cluster.

    There is one intriguing reading from the "secret" climate control that has me thinking the climate control speaks over whatever bus is present in the E36:

    http://www.bmwe36blog.com/2008/06/27...est-functions/

    Test #8 - "Y factor value" - some are suggesting the "Y" may stand for Lambda, AKA O2 sensor reading:

    Cool, didnít know about this! Iím guessing the ďYĒ Value is for the lambda/[COLOR=#995500! important][COLOR=#995500! important]oxygen [COLOR=#995500! important]sensor[/COLOR][/COLOR][/COLOR]. Mustíve used the letter Y because the unit canít display greek letters. Iím suprised it displays any engine information at all, do you know if the e36 has an i-bus connecting all the systems in the car like the later models do?
    Also, the Bentley diagrams list "Computer data lines" (1 pair) going all over the place, connecting nearly all modules together.

    There's gotta be some sort of common bus we can hop on, even if our controller needs to probe the values by interrogating the modules individually.

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  17. #192
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    It seems I may have implied some things I didn't intend to imply. The k-bus is definitely what we need to hop on to talk to everything in the car. It is what runs to the ecu, body control, transmission control, abs, and most every other module as shown by the wiring diagrams in the bentley. Any connected module can be queried by (I assume) the address of the module and the memory address to be read. The hold up is that such queries aren't constantly occurring between modules as is the case with the i-bus on the e46 for instance. Thus, we require someone with a suitable diagnostic device to issue such queries so we can analyze them just to get the protocol down. Additionally, that will be the best method of determining what the address of each module is and what memory addresses we need for the desired information. This is the only bus on the car and subsequently does everything we would expect and hope. Live sensor data, fault codes, even the ability to set programmable features and reprogram the ecu are all possible through this bus.

    This is the bus we want. We absolutely can make it work, and if you ask me we absolutely must. We just need a diagnostic device to kindly put some lines on a scope so we can get this ball rolling.

    The possibility of oxygen sensor data being made available through the digital climate control is intriguing for sure, however I don't put much hope in it. It would be a great head start if we could at least look at that one query and response which would presumably give us the necessary information on the protocol as well as the address of the ecu and the memory location of some kind of oxygen sensor data. Unfortunately though I can't think of any reason that they would randomly stick oxygen sensor data on the climate control amidst the other climate data. Not to mention the fact that the output from narrowband oxygen sensors can't be expressed meaningfully in numerical form. As I don't have a digital climate control unit, I would be interested to hear what kinds of numbers are given for this Y value, although anyone with a digital unit would be able to quickly put an end to the uncertainty by scoping the k-line in the 20 pin diagnostic port.

  18. #193
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    UPDATE: I successfully decoded ENGLISH TEXT DATA from the OBC display today!

    I had to do it by hand but it was "INPUT TIME" padded with spaces on each side. I nailed the interface down to 3 wires for the entire display.
    The interface is standard 8-bit ASCII characters clocked in one at a time, MSB first, on the rising edge of a data clock pin.
    (In other words, this is what we've been waiting for!)

    Pics of decoded logic trace to follow!

    Next steps:

    - Python program for PC to control the display
    - PIC C/ASM code to control the display

    Trace showing "INPUT TIME" followed by "----AM"



    NOTES:

    (Not Shown): Just before Channel 6 goes HIGH, channel 3 is pulsed HIGH briefly.
    I'm not sure if this is the display board "ACK"ing the 28 characters of display data, or the MCU telling the display to refresh itself.
    Adding some diodes to the circuit should allow me to determine where this signal is coming from.

    Time is displayed as 4 sequential characters "----". The colon [:] seems to be automatically added by the display board, since there's no ASCII value present for it.

    After the time, ASCII 8 is seen. This is a control character, so I'm assuming this is some sort of bitmask for the AM/PM/Memo icon. The display was showing "AM" at the time, so I'm assuming bit 4 (DEC 08) toggles this.
    Last edited by m2pc; 04-07-2009 at 11:12 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  19. #194
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    Woo! Nice work!

  20. #195
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    Excellent news. What did the pinout end up being?

    I just breadboarded a circuit to read ccm data and display it on the obc only to remember that I don't currently have a computer built with a serial port. Who knows of a usb programmer that works in linux? I'm so sick of keeping serial around just to program pics.

  21. #196
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    PICKit2 and PICKit3 work fine for most PICs and they are USB.

    http://www.microchip.com/stellent/id...cName=en023805

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    I don't know the specifics of what's going on in this thread but you guys are awesome

  23. #198
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    damn boys this looks like good work. Im impressed and it's not even done yet!

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    My Cars
    ///M3
    Quote Originally Posted by mswiss View Post
    damn boys this looks like good work. Im impressed and it's not even done yet!
    +1

  25. #200
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    US
    Posts
    943
    My Cars
    '94 325i / s13
    No meaningful update - I just thought I'd mention this in case it may benefit others.
    To quote from my pinout earlier:
    ...
    6 12v
    ...

    ...
    9 ground
    ...
    Yeah they actually put power and ground in separate connectors. We can only imagine why they felt the need to do this. Be sure you never have only one connector connected when the car is on. Fortunately the only damage I found was a blown fuse, but still... shame, shame.

    CCM byte:
    0 coolant or brake circuit
    1 coolant or brake circuit
    2 low beam
    3 license
    4 tail
    5 right brake
    6 left brake
    7 pulldown
    CCM shift register:
    HEF4021BP
    Last edited by benemorius; 04-13-2009 at 12:34 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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