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Thread: Feeler: Open Source OBC Firmware

  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    Give me some feedback on this, guys. I was sitting here thinking about tackling the buttons when I began to wonder about changing the labels on them. I've never done anything like that before, but this seems like a case where it would be well worth the effort. I for one don't have much experience with stencils and paint, but there has to be someone here who's familiar with a good way to get factory looking results. Any input?
    I have the button interface documented in my notes -- it's a simple matrix-layout keypad interface.

    As for re-labelling the buttons, I say hold off for now. I thought about doing this too (adding arrows and a "select" button would be great for navigating menus) but it'd be a lot of work and then you'd have to deal with others having their OBCs in stock form, while yours was re-labelled.

    My list of priorities are as follows:

    1) Document everything I know into a single PDF
    2) Re-launch openobc.org website
    3) Get the display driver code ported to C and running on a PIC
    4) Document/reverse engineer/replicate the functions of the standard OBC
    5) Add new functionality

    There may be some overlap between 4 and 5 while I get this going, but you get the general idea.

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  2. #302
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    I wouldn't dream of changing my buttons any time soon without any idea what the new ones will be. It's just one of many things that should be discussed at some point. This thread has become little more than a place for status updates. I want to see more discussion.


    Do you fully understand the purpose of the character after the clock text? I'm struggling without my logic analyzer and your capture is missing the important bits.

  3. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    Do you fully understand the purpose of the character after the clock text? I'm struggling without my logic analyzer and your capture is missing the important bits.
    As far as I can tell, it is hex code 0x08.
    I've tried changing it and the display gets garbage across it.

    The sequences I thought were init codes (counting down from 15 to 0) turned out to be how you set the extra icons on the display.
    Things like the arrows, plus sign, am/pm indicator, memo icon, etc., are all controlled by this sequence. I'm
    guessing that you can update just the icons since there are 2 separate strobe lines (one for ASCII text, the other for icons) but I haven't verified it yet.

    I'll outline all this in the master PDF I'm creating.

    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    I wouldn't dream of changing my buttons any time soon without any idea what the new ones will be. It's just one of many things that should be discussed at some point. This thread has become little more than a place for status updates. I want to see more discussion.
    I agree 100%!
    Last edited by m2pc; 06-17-2010 at 11:09 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  4. #304
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    Does anyone happen to recognize this encoding by chance? I understand it well enough to manipulate the bits I need to, but I'm not familiar enough with various encoding methods to pick out what it's using exactly.

    I'm currently reading the transmission below as 11010100 00111101 01000011 000001, though that may not be 100% accurate.
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  5. #305
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    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    Does anyone happen to recognize this encoding by chance? I understand it well enough to manipulate the bits I need to, but I'm not familiar enough with various encoding methods to pick out what it's using exactly.

    I'm currently reading the transmission below as 11010100 00111101 01000011 000001, though that may not be 100% accurate.
    You need to check these bits on the rising edge of the data clock signal (bit 4 if your interface is like mine). Try showing both the data and clock lines in parallel so you can line up the transitions with the bit states.

    It helped me when I replaced the 4.000 MHz crystal with a 1.8432 MHz unit -- the display still operates (more slowly albeit) but I can capture and make out the signal much easier at a slower speed.

    The stream is MSB -> LSB (the first bit is 128, then 64, then 32, etc.).
    Last edited by m2pc; 06-20-2010 at 11:00 PM.

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  6. #306
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2pc View Post
    You need to check these bits on the rising edge of the data clock signal (bit 4 if your interface is like mine)
    I guess I could have mentioned that this isn't the obc display. I tend to jump around between subprojects of varying complexity depending on my mood and prototyping inventory. This is from a two-way car alarm remote that I'm integrating with my rfid security system, which in turn is being integrated with my obc. There is no clock or any other signal. This is what comes out of the air after fsk demodulation.

  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    I guess I could have mentioned that this isn't the obc display. I tend to jump around between subprojects of varying complexity depending on my mood and prototyping inventory. This is from a two-way car alarm remote that I'm integrating with my rfid security system, which in turn is being integrated with my obc. There is no clock or any other signal. This is what comes out of the air after fsk demodulation.
    Hey quit jacking the thread!

    Just kidding... any idea what data is supposed to be sent?

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  8. #308
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2pc View Post
    Hey quit jacking the thread!

    Just kidding... any idea what data is supposed to be sent?
    Who wouldn't want their remote tied in to their obc and diagnostic lines? Just wait until I get it talking to the body electronics and engine control modules. Then the fun begins. I'm ready to start working on that pretty soon too. I just need to dig out a laptop so I can work over wifi from the comfort of my desk while leaving all my circuitry out in my ridiculously hot car.

    I'm reasoning that the first byte (or two) is an address field, and the last bits are definitely the data field. I'm not sure what lies between.
    Last edited by benemorius; 06-21-2010 at 12:03 AM.

  9. #309
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    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    Who wouldn't want their remote tied in to their obc and diagnostic lines? Just wait until I get it talking to the body electronics and engine control modules. Then the fun begins. I'm ready to start working on that pretty soon too. I just need to dig out a laptop so I can work over wifi from the comfort of my desk while leaving all my circuitry out in my ridiculously hot car.

    I'm reasoning that the first byte (or two) is an address field, and the last bits are definitely the data field. I'm not sure what lies between.
    Hmm, I'm not sure how the OBC and a security remote will inter-operate, but I'll take your word for it!
    As for the data packet, it's most likely encrypted with some sort of rolling code, correct? Otherwise anyone could just sniff packets and clone your remote, no?

    Any info you have on engine control module interfacing would be great.
    There's absolutely no reason why the OBC can't be a full-fledged OBD-II diagnostic tool, built right into the car!

    My focus ATM is to just get everything documented so others can tinker like we're doing.
    I'm about halfway done.

    As a side note, did you or anyone else figure out the following:

    a) CCM module protocol (I know it's data, clock, and strobe, but is it client or master originated and what do the bits represent?)
    b) Fuel economy signal
    c) Fuel tank signal

    I have a suspicion that c) is simply an analog reading of the tank sender resistance, that needs to go into a resistor divider and an ADC input.

    1999 ///M3 TiAg | Heated Power Vaders | DDM Projector36 5000K 55W HIDs | DDM 3000K 35W HID Fogs
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  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2pc View Post
    c) Fuel tank signal
    I don't know the other, I can't program, but I can help with this

    Ohm resistance:
    empty tank left side: 10 ohm +- 2
    empty tank right side: 10 ohm +- 2

    - full tank, left side:
    E36 -1994 250ohm +- 5
    e36 1995- 231,3ohm +- 5

    - full tank, right side:
    E36 -1994 250ohm +- 5
    e36 1995- 268,7ohm +- 5

    -SPEED
    4712pulses per km
    40km/h = 52Hz
    80kmh = 104Hz
    120kmh = 157Hz
    160kmh = 209Hz
    200kmh = 261 Hz
    240kmh = 313Hz

    data taken from BMW documents.




    I speak for Forced Induction boys... Functions that a lot of people would like are:
    - Air Fuel Ratio from external wideband units, like innovate LC-1. usually is 0-5volts and every wideband have own table for voltage=afr. GONG when over limits.
    - oil pressure from vdo like senders. Usually ohm resistance. here too every sender has its own settings. GONG when low
    - manifold pressure from MAP sensor. it's a Voltage. GONG when overboosting.


    You think you could transform the OBC into datalogger? You'll have money doing this
    now that you are working on it, realize our dreams
    Last edited by nuvola rossa; 06-22-2010 at 05:36 AM.

  11. #311
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    This is my observation, maybe not 100% correct:

    Fuel economy signal is a signal from a single injector. It is a square wave - "1" means the injector is open and "0" that is is closed.
    Every revolution of the engine produces a "1-0" pair. The (bosch) injector has a constant flow rate - volume per open time (assuming constant pressure - 3 bar).

    This gives you fuel consumption of a single cylinder per revolution. Multiply by number of cylinders and whatever you need (current speed, distance traveled, time, etc...)

    Quote Originally Posted by nuvola rossa View Post
    data taken from BMW documents.
    Is there any chance you could share those documents or at least give us a hint what to search for? I have a lot of documents but not with this kind of details.
    Last edited by jarda; 06-22-2010 at 05:45 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  12. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by jarda View Post
    Is there any chance you could share those documents or at least give us a hint what to search for? I have a lot of documents but not with this kind of details.
    BMW TIS.
    I suppose that in english there is a section called "Technical specifications", I don't know exactly the sentence cause my TIS is in Italian.

  13. #313
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    Thanks, I have that .... I must have missed something...

  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2pc View Post
    Hmm, I'm not sure how the OBC and a security remote will inter-operate, but I'll take your word for it!
    As for the data packet, it's most likely encrypted with some sort of rolling code, correct? Otherwise anyone could just sniff packets and clone your remote, no?

    Any info you have on engine control module interfacing would be great.
    There's absolutely no reason why the OBC can't be a full-fledged OBD-II diagnostic tool, built right into the car!

    My focus ATM is to just get everything documented so others can tinker like we're doing.
    I'm about halfway done.

    As a side note, did you or anyone else figure out the following:

    a) CCM module protocol (I know it's data, clock, and strobe, but is it client or master originated and what do the bits represent?)
    b) Fuel economy signal
    c) Fuel tank signal

    I have a suspicion that c) is simply an analog reading of the tank sender resistance, that needs to go into a resistor divider and an ADC input.
    The data that is sent to the remote is unsecured. I'm still curious to know what name the encoding goes by, but I have my code working with it now.

    I have virtually no information on communicating with the control modules. That's why I've been putting it off for years. I have a couple of things to try to see if I can get a module to respond. My current plan is to hook up my modified obc and mess with code until I either go insane or get a response. I recently found this on my most recent research venture, and it's the most promising thing I've yet seen. http://www.cardiagnostics.be/GT1-MOD...ocol KW-71.htm

    OBD2 should be easy by comparison. If that's all you want then you can rest easy. The documentation on those protocols is much more easily found and I have no doubt at all that the openobc will have full obd2 support.

    I posted how to query the ccm and interpret its reply somewhere in this thread. As I recall, I left a pair of bits in question. The first one to query their own ccm can figure those bits out by disconnecting their washer fluid level sensor, as that was one of the two bits. (I don't remember the other one, but I posted it) I didn't feel like disconnecting mine at the time because of the delicate nature of its ghetto rigging.

    I have an input connected to the obc's fuel economy wire and plan to include it in my experimentation when I take my obc back out to my car presumably in the next few days. I imagine jarda is correct, though.

    I don't think I've seen the fuel level wire in the obc harness. Do you know which one it is?

    Quote Originally Posted by nuvola rossa View Post
    I don't know the other, I can't program, but I can help with this

    Ohm resistance:
    empty tank left side: 10 ohm +- 2
    empty tank right side: 10 ohm +- 2

    - full tank, left side:
    E36 -1994 250ohm +- 5
    e36 1995- 231,3ohm +- 5

    - full tank, right side:
    E36 -1994 250ohm +- 5
    e36 1995- 268,7ohm +- 5

    -SPEED
    4712pulses per km
    40km/h = 52Hz
    80kmh = 104Hz
    120kmh = 157Hz
    160kmh = 209Hz
    200kmh = 261 Hz
    240kmh = 313Hz

    data taken from BMW documents.

    Thanks for this. The hardware is just as important as the software.

    I speak for Forced Induction boys... Functions that a lot of people would like are:
    - Air Fuel Ratio from external wideband units, like innovate LC-1. usually is 0-5volts and every wideband have own table for voltage=afr. GONG when over limits.
    - oil pressure from vdo like senders. Usually ohm resistance. here too every sender has its own settings. GONG when low
    - manifold pressure from MAP sensor. it's a Voltage. GONG when overboosting.


    You think you could transform the OBC into datalogger? You'll have money doing this
    now that you are working on it, realize our dreams

    There won't be any problems accommodating all of this for anyone who doesn't mind running a few extra wires to those sensors. As long as the various senders all conform to either an analog output or variable resistance, configuration and calibration can be left to the user.

    We should discuss storage possibilities for datalogging. If everyone would be content to log to a removable sd card on the back of the obc, then we could call it a done deal. I don't think I'd mind having to pop out my obc to remove the sd card, but I'm sure open to any other more convenient and creative ideas. I imagine we could extend the sd socket to a space by the cigarette lighter for those that need easier access.
    Last edited by benemorius; 06-22-2010 at 06:55 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  15. #315
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    Good lord seriously? Log to an SD card?

    I'd say that's an awesome way of doing it, yeah.

    Definitely subscribing to this one, great work man.

  16. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennyfizzle View Post
    Good lord seriously? Log to an SD card?

    I'd say that's an awesome way of doing it, yeah.

    Definitely subscribing to this one, great work man.
    Well if an sd card would be awesome, what would spectacular look like? I mentioned sd card because it's just about the easiest thing to write to with a microcontroller. There's no rule that says desirable things are difficult things. No one should have any reservations about posting ideas or requests in this thread. If it can't be done, someone will say so. No harm done.

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    this is going to me awesome. i will totally buy one if it works.

  18. #318
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    I just checked my diagrams and there's no fuel signal mentioned. I see road speed (X1070, pin 13) and RPM (labelled "speed signal") (X1071, pin 9), as well as fuel consumption (tKVA) (X1071, pin 6).

    I wonder, is there a way to read the tank level using the Diag RX (X1071, pin 7) and Diag TX (X1071, pin 5)? Presumably the OBC must need the tank level in order to calculate the "range" function.

    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    Well if an sd card would be awesome, what would spectacular look like? I mentioned sd card because it's just about the easiest thing to write to with a microcontroller. There's no rule that says desirable things are difficult things. No one should have any reservations about posting ideas or requests in this thread. If it can't be done, someone will say so. No harm done.
    Actually most of the high-end PICs have native USB built-in, so it would be even easier to run a USB port out of the back of the OBC to a socket someplace in the vehicle.
    Then we could log to a removable flash drive to make it even easier to transfer to a PC.
    Since most flash drives are essentially an SD card with a USB converter on them, having a native USB port outside the OBC would faciliate both.

    The iPhone and other mobile devices have USB ports, so you could turn your iPhone into a data logging display, tied to the OBC, which in turn interfaces with sensors and the vehicle data bus.

    Or, bluetooth/Zigbee/wifi is an option as well. There's USB adaptors for all of these.
    You could have to OBC log to internal flash memory and then wirelessly transfer the data out to an external PC.

    The possibilities are endless at this point.
    Last edited by m2pc; 06-22-2010 at 04:05 PM.

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  19. #319
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    If you're volunteering to write the usb functions, I couldn't be happier. It's common to find usb device peripherals on pics and other 8 bit micros, but usb host support is another matter entirely both in device selection and code requirements. I'm not saying it can't or shouldn't be done. I'm just saying that usb host is not what you'd call small potatoes, and doing it on an 8 bit processor is asking for at least a bit of trouble.

    I'm looking at pin 15 on x1070 as a candidate for fuel level. It goes to the instrument cluster and I can't determine any other use for it. If the dme is aware of the fuel level, we can probably get it on the diagnostic lines assuming someone figures out how to use them. I doubt the dme gets that information though. I'm fairly certain I remember scoping my diagnostic lines one day and determining that they aren't used during normal vehicle operation with no diagnostic device hooked up. I believe I was led to the same conclusion through research.
    Last edited by benemorius; 06-22-2010 at 05:43 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  20. #320
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    tell me if you understand this.
    PS: leave away (at least for now) diagnostic lines, cause it's a PITA. trust me.
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    Last edited by nuvola rossa; 06-22-2010 at 06:37 PM.

  21. #321
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuvola rossa View Post
    tell me if you understand this.
    PS: leave away (at least for now) diagnostic lines, cause it's a PITA. trust me.
    It provides additional confirmation of how the fuel sensors operate, but it's limited to a wiring harness behind the gauge cluster.

    I don't have to trust your word, as I know it all too well myself. It's far more important to me than the obc though. Thanks to the most recent data I found, it's become my top priority. Anything you may have on it would be much appreciated.

    I'm beginning to wonder about these diagnostic lines in the obc harness. I've never had cause to doubt that they were the k-line and l-line wires (typically labeled tx/rx in diagrams for legacy reasons I'd guess) that all our diagrams and pinouts say they are. My l-line is idling low instead of high, and both lines are very strongly held where they are. I have to admit I've often wondered why the hell those wires were available to the obc. A pair of toasty fingers and a cooked 47 ohm resistor now compel me to confirm that they really are. Maybe I'm just grossly underestimating the current requirements of half a dozen control modules with 15 year old designs. That wouldn't explain an l-line being grounded at idle though.

    In any case, I'm waiting until later tonight to go back out so it isn't so hot. I don't enjoy having to ring my shirt out every ten minutes. Intolerable conditions and frustrating projects don't mix well.
    Last edited by benemorius; 06-22-2010 at 11:18 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  22. #322
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    On a brighter note, here's 111kb of encouragement for all interested parties. It's a frankenstein obc hooked up to my car performing just the first small fraction of the old obc's tasks, plus one. The internal temperature is obviously the added function, and what you can't see is that pushing the turn signal stalk button toggles the right display between voltage and temperature.

    There's certainly no significant milestone here. I just figured I'd snap a quick picture for symbolic display.
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  23. #323
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    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    No one should have any reservations about posting ideas or requests in this thread. If it can't be done, someone will say so. No harm done.
    Funny you should mention that. heh heh Here's an odd request. Make this compatible with the 318ti dash. The 318ti is the same as a sedan from the A pillars forward, but that doesn't include the dash.

    This link will hopefully provide a pic of the 318ti dash.

    The only places I can think of to put the E36 OBC fit are:
    In place of the stereo
    Under the climate controls

    Hmm... I don't see any realistic way to make that work. Oh well... it was worth a shot.
    DON'T HATE THE HATCH!
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  24. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by roadrash View Post
    Funny you should mention that. heh heh Here's an odd request. Make this compatible with the 318ti dash. The 318ti is the same as a sedan from the A pillars forward, but that doesn't include the dash.

    This link will hopefully provide a pic of the 318ti dash.

    The only places I can think of to put the E36 OBC fit are:
    In place of the stereo
    Under the climate controls

    Hmm... I don't see any realistic way to make that work. Oh well... it was worth a shot.

    I'm an electronics guy who loathes body and interior work, but if someone can get the thing to physically fit somewhere, I'm more than happy to assist with the remaining aspects of getting it to function. One other potential option I see at a glance would be replacing the climate controls with the obc. Of course, that would require retrofitting the digital climate control system in place of the analog mechanisms (I don't know whether that's possible on that model) and then interfacing the system to the obc rather than the digital climate controls (easy enough, but the climate controls would then be significantly less convenient to operate.)

  25. #325
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    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    If you're volunteering to write the usb functions, I couldn't be happier. It's common to find usb device peripherals on pics and other 8 bit micros, but usb host support is another matter entirely both in device selection and code requirements. I'm not saying it can't or shouldn't be done. I'm just saying that usb host is not what you'd call small potatoes, and doing it on an 8 bit processor is asking for at least a bit of trouble.
    Haha, we'll see how difficult it proves to be! I did find some encouragement in the "USB OTG [On-The-Go]" intro found here:
    http://www.usb.org/developers/onthego/USB_OTG_Intro.pdf

    This explains how my relatively low-power printer is able to connect to my USB camera and act as a host. Only a subset of the USB 2.0 spec is supported, but thankfully "mass storage device" is part of it. Perfect for a data logger!

    I agree, a CF/SDCard interface is simpler (many are just glorified SPI) but a real USB host would sure be nice!

    Another alternative is to use a USB host ASIC, like these:
    http://www.maxim-ic.com/datasheet/index.mvp/id/3639

    This offloads the "host" tasks to a decated coprocessor, leaving the PIC to do its own tasks and talk via SPI to the USB processor.

    I'm looking at pin 15 on x1070 as a candidate for fuel level. It goes to the instrument cluster and I can't determine any other use for it. If the dme is aware of the fuel level, we can probably get it on the diagnostic lines assuming someone figures out how to use them. I doubt the dme gets that information though. I'm fairly certain I remember scoping my diagnostic lines one day and determining that they aren't used during normal vehicle operation with no diagnostic device hooked up. I believe I was led to the same conclusion through research.
    Strange, in my diagram, I wrote "To Cluster (Gear Ind?)"... not sure where I got that from?

    Doing some quick research shows that via OBDII, PID 2F yields the "fuel level" signal (0-100%) that seems to indicate fuel tank level.

    Quote Originally Posted by benemorius View Post
    On a brighter note, here's 111kb of encouragement for all interested parties. It's a frankenstein obc hooked up to my car performing just the first small fraction of the old obc's tasks, plus one. The internal temperature is obviously the added function, and what you can't see is that pushing the turn signal stalk button toggles the right display between voltage and temperature.

    There's certainly no significant milestone here. I just figured I'd snap a quick picture for symbolic display.
    Wow, very cool! I'll get to that point eventually!

    EDIT: Also found this really cool chip from FTDI (they make many of the USB-to-serial/parallel ASICs found in a lot of devices):

    http://www.ftdichip.com/News/AEI_0807_pp23-24B.pdf

    This allows you to send simple DOS commands and the ASIC handles the rest.
    Things like "DIR", "RD", and "WR" are supported!
    Last edited by m2pc; 06-23-2010 at 12:25 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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