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Thread: Feeler: Open Source OBC Firmware

  1. #626
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    m2pc...the progress looks great!
    Question...you think there would be any problem extending the wires to the display so that the display could be mounted remotely from the main OBC unit? You think the longer runs of wire would cause any problems with the display?
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  2. #627
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mpowered02 View Post
    m2pc...the progress looks great!
    Question...you think there would be any problem extending the wires to the display so that the display could be mounted remotely from the main OBC unit? You think the longer runs of wire would cause any problems with the display?
    How far are you talking? It's probably possible to extend it a foot or so, but too long and you start getting cross-talk and interference as these are fairly high-speed signals going from the control board -> display unit.

    Keep in mind there's still another PC board needed to actually drive the LCD itself; that needs to stay with the LCD wherever it's mounted.

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  3. #628
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2pc View Post
    How far are you talking? It's probably possible to extend it a foot or so, but too long and you start getting cross-talk and interference as these are fairly high-speed signals going from the control board -> display unit.

    Keep in mind there's still another PC board needed to actually drive the LCD itself; that needs to stay with the LCD wherever it's mounted.
    Yes, I have a spare OBC apart and noticed the PCB that's attached to the rear of the display. Would the same apply to the wires to the PCB for the buttons? The reason i'm asking is because i'll eventually be redesigning the cluster area of my dash using a Stack cluster and was thinking of relocating the display of the OBC into the lower edge of the cluster area. Was hoping to have the buttons mounted remotely somewhere out of the way...maybe in the upper console by the sunroof switch (kinda like the E30). You think that would be feasible? The center console is getting redesigned as well to mimic the original CLS console, so there is no longer a space for the OBC in the center console...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mpowered02 View Post
    Yes, I have a spare OBC apart and noticed the PCB that's attached to the rear of the display. Would the same apply to the wires to the PCB for the buttons? The reason i'm asking is because i'll eventually be redesigning the cluster area of my dash using a Stack cluster and was thinking of relocating the display of the OBC into the lower edge of the cluster area. Was hoping to have the buttons mounted remotely somewhere out of the way...maybe in the upper console by the sunroof switch (kinda like the E30). You think that would be feasible? The center console is getting redesigned as well to mimic the original CLS console, so there is no longer a space for the OBC in the center console...
    As long as you kept the main boards together, simply running new wires to relocating the buttons would be fine/pretty simple.

    PS, I wanna see a picture of said interior.

    EDIT:

    Oh I see. If this is what you're talking about...





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    Last edited by Dricebrug; 02-03-2011 at 09:24 PM.

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    WARNING: Long post to follow...

    Well, some good new and bad news to report. First, the bad news: I have been having the WORST time getting anywhere using the PIC18F6585 IC I chose as the CPU for the openOBC project. I was able to get my code working and the display showing a simple "Hello world" output, but beyond that I was having all kinds of issues. One minute it worked fine, the next it would freak out and garbage would show on the display.

    To make matters worse, I looked closely at the ribbon cable going from the openOBC mainboard to the display/keypad, and one of the wires seemed a bit charred at the end, with melted plastic.

    Throughout this whole process, I keep thinking and re-thinking whether or not the PIC microcontroller is the best way to tackle this project. The more I think about it, the more I come to these conclusions:

    a) Compiler and development tools are NOT freely available, not open source, and cost $$$ for the full versions. This is a major concern for an "open" project.
    b) Apparently the PIC I chose has major problems, and it's the only microcontroller that I could find with high enough pin count but still through-hole capable via the appropriate socket.
    c) I'm still using an 8-bit part, just like the designers did back in the 1990's when the built the original OBC. Shouldn't we be moving on by now?
    d) The PIC I chose only has 1 UART onboard and no USB or other functions built-in. This could present a problem for expansion and is exactly why I had to use an SPI UART on my expansion board just to talk to the GPS module.
    e) The PIC I have has no onboard RTC (Real-time-clock). This will have to be implemented entirely in software, and when the vehicle battery disconnected, we're left with the same chore of resetting the clock again.

    Anyway, those points have been weighing heavy on me. True, I did just spend a few hundred dollars having a bunch of boards made. But it's also been a huge learning project for me in terms of board layout and electronic design.

    I have decided to abandon the current effort using the PIC series of chips for this project. In my quest to find a more open alternative, I landed on this:

    "32-bit ARM Cortex-M3 microcontroller" (M3, get it? Heheh..)

    http://ics.nxp.com/products/lpc1000/...68.lpc1769.pdf

    It's the same IC Benemorius recommended earlier in this thread. It's a 32-bit ARM CPU with a TON of built-in hardware, several UARTs that will allow easy connection to things, and best of all, a free online optimizing C/C++ development environment that allows anyone to compile code at no cost. Plus there's a ton of ready-made libraries for accessing just about any peripheral out there.

    The device has onboard USB, which makes it trivial to upgrade. Simply compile the code, drop the .bin file into the USB-enabled filesystem (it looks like a flash drive to the PC it's connected to) and viola! Updated firmware.

    I've been checking and here are some hot points with this IC:

    - Almost the same cost as the PIC I was using (Qty 1 is $12)
    - True, 32-bit ARM CPU
    - Up to 120MHz CPU speed
    - 512KB flash memory for program storage
    - Ethernet
    - USB 2.0
    - 4 Serial Ports
    - Real-time-clock w/separate power pins (for backup battery!)
    - 8x 12-bit A/D converter
    - 1x 10-bit D/A converter
    - 1x motor control PWM channel (Integrated SPAL fan controller anyone?)

    The only real downsides are a) I need to redesign my boards slightly, and b) these are surface mount ICs.

    That being said, this move will allow for much more flexibility and open-ness in the development of the openOBC project. I am committed to seeing this project through to the end, and this will help me to do that.

    More updates to follow!

    EDIT: For $59, Digi-Key has an eval board with the IC already soldered, so if anyone wants to get one (mine's on order now) and take a stab at it, by all means do so!
    http://search.digikey.com/scripts/Dk...me=568-4916-ND
    Last edited by m2pc; 02-04-2011 at 09:47 PM.

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  6. #631
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    Sorry you are having trouble with the CPU. I think you are right to ditch the PIC. The lack of a pre-installed bootloader for easy updates, the poor and sprawling website design, the demo files and libraries that don't compile...

    One thing I will say is that when I look at Hack-a-day, without fail, everyone is using Arduino for their projects for LED, servo, timer, automation projects. I'm not sure if they do one with enough grunt and peripherals for your project (I know they are stackable to add more features though), but there must be some reason for the mass migration to that uC.

  7. #632
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    Yes the bootloader alone will make updates a breeze; I'd much prefer someone being able to connect a USB cable to a notebook PC and reflash the OBC vs. Having them need an expensive programmer.

    I settled on the NXP mcu mainly due to high pin count and prebuilt libraries; I'm sure Ardurino is a viable solution as well, for those wishing to use it.

    All is not lost on my current design; I spent considerable time measuring components and getting the power supply right; the NXP mcu is a 3.3V part, which simplifies the design considerably, since the GPS and other components are 3.3V also.
    Last edited by m2pc; 02-05-2011 at 07:58 PM.

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  8. #633
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    There are about 10,000 good options between the PIC and that mbed board. Why not something like a more modern PIC24?
    No PMs. Email through forum please.

  9. #634
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    There are about 10,000 good options between the PIC and that mbed board. Why not something like a more modern PIC24?
    True, there are a TON of choices out there. Even with the PIC24 the cheapest C compiler is $200 just for the command-line version (CCS which has proved horrible for some developers I know). We use the PIC24 at work and it has its own set of caveats and issues.

    The NXP part is a standard ARM core with a few peripherals attached, that can be targetted with GCC and all the standard build tools under Windows, Linux, or OSX. Basically everything is free and open. Much of the PIC libraries are inconsistent, or just non-existent. It's also been a big problem identifying exactly how to enable certain peripherals (like making a multiplexed pin a digital output). The documentation just isn't clear on a lot of things.

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  10. #635
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    I have done designs with PIC (12 bit), AVR and NXP ARM7 parts, and like your decision. I do find the ARM interrupt system to be needlessly complicated, but keep in mind that I started on the PDP-11 with RT-11, back when giants roamed the earth who thought real time and breathed interrupts. That minor quibble aside, I would be quite happy to use an ARM chip again.
    Last edited by johnf; 02-06-2011 at 05:00 AM.

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  12. #637
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnf View Post
    I have done designs with PIC (12 bit), AVR and NXP ARM7 parts, and like your decision. I do find the ARM interrupt system to be needlessly complicated, but keep in mind that I started on the PDP-11 with RT-11, back when giants roamed the earth who thought real time and breathed interrupts. That minor quibble aside, I would be quite happy to use an ARM chip again.
    Sounds good! I have the NXP breakout board on order so I should be able to get up and running soon. Then I'll be redesigning the main board and expansion board accordingly. 3.3V all around should simplify things a lot!

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  13. #638
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2pc View Post
    True, there are a TON of choices out there. Even with the PIC24 the cheapest C compiler is $200 just for the command-line version (CCS which has proved horrible for some developers I know). We use the PIC24 at work and it has its own set of caveats and issues.

    The NXP part is a standard ARM core with a few peripherals attached, that can be targetted with GCC and all the standard build tools under Windows, Linux, or OSX. Basically everything is free and open. Much of the PIC libraries are inconsistent, or just non-existent. It's also been a big problem identifying exactly how to enable certain peripherals (like making a multiplexed pin a digital output). The documentation just isn't clear on a lot of things.
    MPLAB is free for PICs and they have a multiplatform version. It's even compatible with the PIC32 series (more powerful than my first desktop computer BTW) which is just a standard MIPS core with a bunch of peripherals attached.

    I really hope you won't be using gcc with that dev board... If you're getting the mbed, use their IDE. It's supposed to be really good.
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  14. #639
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joylove View Post
    Sorry you are having trouble with the CPU. I think you are right to ditch the PIC. The lack of a pre-installed bootloader for easy updates, the poor and sprawling website design, the demo files and libraries that don't compile...

    One thing I will say is that when I look at Hack-a-day, without fail, everyone is using Arduino for their projects for LED, servo, timer, automation projects. I'm not sure if they do one with enough grunt and peripherals for your project (I know they are stackable to add more features though), but there must be some reason for the mass migration to that uC.


    I <3 my arduino


  15. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt View Post
    MPLAB is free for PICs and they have a multiplatform version. It's even compatible with the PIC32 series (more powerful than my first desktop computer BTW) which is just a standard MIPS core with a bunch of peripherals attached.

    I really hope you won't be using gcc with that dev board... If you're getting the mbed, use their IDE. It's supposed to be really good.
    MPLAB may be free, but good C/C++ compilers are not. I really want to program the openOBC in a high-level language, and I've yet to find a good C compiler for cheap.

    GCC is a very stable, well-established compiler that does target the NXP CPU, which is why I brought it up. The mbed online IDE is awesome IMHO but many also like to have an "offline" compiler that doesn't require outside network resources to work.

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  16. #641
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    I have one i got from the junk yard. I was going to wire it into my m3 but it came from a 325. I am willing to donate it for this.

    Sorry. I did not realize how far in this thread was.
    Last edited by crawlermonkey; 02-07-2011 at 02:55 AM.

  17. #642
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    Surface-mount isn't the end of the world. It is a little bit harder to solder, but I think if there's just a single component that's surface-mount, it should be an acceptable compromise.
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  18. #643
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    Quote Originally Posted by jijacob View Post
    Surface-mount isn't the end of the world. It is a little bit harder to solder, but I think if there's just a single component that's surface-mount, it should be an acceptable compromise.
    True, and I could have just the MCU soldered by pick-and-place operation at a fab house to make it easier; heck maybe the whole board minus a few connectors!

    I'll probably make the next batch using expressPCB but then switch to a traditional board house once the design is proved. I may be able to get a flex license for Altium Designer which is much more capable. For one thing, expressPCB cannot mill out holes in the middle of my design, so the OBC mounting rectangles need to be nibbled out by hand, which is a big pain.

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  19. #644
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    Hey guys, I'm working on a project and came across your huge thread here, great work! I'm using the buttons for a CarPC control and would like to take control of the LCD as well. Do you have any recommendations on how to drive the LCD display with an Arduino?

    From reviewing this thread I saw this:

    1 +5V
    2 gnd
    3 LCD bias (+6, works with +5)
    4 fix at 1
    5 config strobe
    6 data strobe
    7 clock
    8 data
    9 final strobe
    10 enable
    11 LCD clk

  20. #645
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2pc View Post
    True, and I could have just the MCU soldered by pick-and-place operation at a fab house to make it easier; heck maybe the whole board minus a few connectors!

    I'll probably make the next batch using expressPCB but then switch to a traditional board house once the design is proved. I may be able to get a flex license for Altium Designer which is much more capable. For one thing, expressPCB cannot mill out holes in the middle of my design, so the OBC mounting rectangles need to be nibbled out by hand, which is a big pain.
    Maybe you could have a through-hole display interface card,with all the supplies, display driver, level tranlators, bus interfaces on it, then a smaller SMD board as a plug in for the CPU?

  21. #646
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    This came in the mail yesterday:



    I wrote my first test program in C in about 5 minutes without installing anything!

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  22. #647
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    Just some $0.02 from an embedded software guy...

    1) I don't mind surface mount stuff as long as I will never have to rework it (or we're not talking 0603's). If you can gain efficiencies and open up the parts bin to alternative CPUs, etc. by using SMT, then I say go for it...particularly if it's all on a daughtercard or some other easily-detachable subassembly that can be fabbed and sold as a completed unit.

    2) I vote for any CPU that is supported by the GCC toolchain. I absolutely hate the idea of paying for a toolchain when GCC rocks and is free. I don't care about IDEs, but I consider the ability to work offline in a common high level language like C to be essential. If I have to learn yet another CPU-specific language I think I'm going to barf.

    3) I also agree that having a bootloader would kick ass. Software updates will be the norm for this thing, so the easier it is to make those happen, the better.

    4) The GPS should probably not be on the board design since I can't see it working in the dash surrounded by all that metal...particularly on the top with the radio, etc.. Why don't we just add power and serial data support for a puck-type GPS we can locate someplace under the top of the dash (so it can't be seen, but can see the sky)? I realize the one I'm familiar with (Garmin GPS18) is expensive and requires 5V, but there have to be other 3.3V models available somewhere.

  23. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominic49 View Post
    I <3 my arduino

    Do you actually have the volt/temperature table for a particular sensor?

    I have my arduino and I've been trying to find someone with a VDO digital gauge so I can figure out the temperature/volts for VDO senders.

    (I'm going to have a arduino pro mini power an 2x16 LCD where the MPG gauge is on my car)

  24. #649
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    You guys are all too smart for yourown good

    This is some cool stuff you all are doing!

  25. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwvcfii View Post
    Just some $0.02 from an embedded software guy...

    1) I don't mind surface mount stuff as long as I will never have to rework it (or we're not talking 0603's). If you can gain efficiencies and open up the parts bin to alternative CPUs, etc. by using SMT, then I say go for it...particularly if it's all on a daughtercard or some other easily-detachable subassembly that can be fabbed and sold as a completed unit.
    Yes, I recently soldered my first surface mount board at work and it wasn't too bad actually. I used fine tweezers and took my time, and it went well. The daunting part is the pitch of the LPC1768 MCU (0.5mm). The smallest IC I've soldered is your basic SOIC-16 package. Maybe I can through hole most of the design or use easier parts (0603 or 1206) and have the MCU board done outside with a pick-n-place operation.
    Quote Originally Posted by dwvcfii View Post
    2) I vote for any CPU that is supported by the GCC toolchain. I absolutely hate the idea of paying for a toolchain when GCC rocks and is free. I don't care about IDEs, but I consider the ability to work offline in a common high level language like C to be essential. If I have to learn yet another CPU-specific language I think I'm going to barf.
    I agree 100% on this. From what I've read, the LPC1768 is a generic ARM core with peripherals defined in some .H files.
    Quote Originally Posted by dwvcfii View Post
    3) I also agree that having a bootloader would kick ass. Software updates will be the norm for this thing, so the easier it is to make those happen, the better.
    Apparently the mbed board I got uses another MCU to do the bootloader via JTAG on the host MCU. I novel approach if you ask me. I guess I should look for some easy USB->JTAG interfaces, or else maybe code something so you could drop an image onto an SDCard, pop it in the data logging port of the openOBC and it would auto-program itself. Another option is to do the update via the Internet, since the MCU has onboard Ethernet, or connect to WiFi via a SPI/I2C WiFi radio.

    Quote Originally Posted by dwvcfii View Post
    4) The GPS should probably not be on the board design since I can't see it working in the dash surrounded by all that metal...particularly on the top with the radio, etc.. Why don't we just add power and serial data support for a puck-type GPS we can locate someplace under the top of the dash (so it can't be seen, but can see the sky)? I realize the one I'm familiar with (Garmin GPS18) is expensive and requires 5V, but there have to be other 3.3V models available somewhere.
    I agree on this. This is why on my expansion board I left the GPS as a set of 4 pads; I'll try it inside the car, but if this doesn't work, we could run some RJ11 phone wire or twisted pair out to a better location. Or choose a GPS module with external antenna connector and run some thin coax out to the antenna.

    I'm still really excited about this project and I appreciate your insights!
    Last edited by m2pc; 02-10-2011 at 12:56 AM.

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