RIP Cale,
From what I've been told, the collision was lateral (hans doesn't help). A net is the only sure way to prevent head/c-spine traume during such an impact.
I miss her, back in a BMW for the time being
Cale was a great, great guy. This really hits home hard...he will be missed dearly by many of the Mid Atlantic track guys.
Congrats to him for winning TTC in NASA-MA. A buddy of mine spoke to him Saturday night and he was extremely happy and excited to have won 1st place again, so we know he was in good spirits.
My prayers go out to him and his family in coping with such a tragic incident.
As an aside, there are plenty of other threads where the efficacy of hans/harnesses are discussed.
Last edited by M Dizzle; 11-11-2008 at 06:26 PM.
I am very curious as to what happened with his car, the brakes, and the impact. This hits too close to home, Summit Point is my home track and I detest reading about such tragedies. Dearly sorry.
Last edited by CaracasE30; 11-11-2008 at 06:18 PM.
How does one figure out what size HANS device to get/run? Not a whole lot of places I know of to try them on.
there isn't really much to the sizing. it goes by neck size. there are various rake angles too, but those are all for different layback seats. sedans all use the same model. i am sure one call to HMS motorsports would result in the proper size being shipped to you the next day.
The S2000 guys are discussing a group buy for HNS type systems. A friend of mine, and BMW Instructor chimes in on the R3. He views it as a superior alternative, especially for people who are in 3-pt student cars.
http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=647633
Craig BricknerClick to Join: BMWCCA # 366493
BMW CCA/PBOC/Chin Motorsports DE Instructor
2008 M3 Sedan Jerez/Black
R3 seems preferred by instructors. good comparison of the various types here on trackpedia: http://www.trackpedia.com/wiki/Head_and_Neck_Restraints
interesting discussion here : http://www.trackpedia.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4829
HANS is definitely on my winter shopping list.
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Anyone else see this new device being introduced in December at the PRI?
http://www.defnder.com/index.htm
Looks promising and makes up for some of the shortcomings of the HANS...and is SFI certified already.
RIP Kale. Another NASA-MA member lost.
yup, for sports cars and sedan racing, a 20 degree is fine. for formula cars, you should go to a 30 degree model.
the guest driver from Germany's VW Polo Cup wore that at our Jetta TDI Cup NJ race. it was an interesting device and it looked like it provided better lateral protection.
speaking of that weekend, I came out of a nasty accident during qualifying without even a sore on my neck, thanks to my HANS device. the data guy showed that it was a 3g frontal hit & 2g lateral hit.
(whole driver's side was smashed)
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HANS has better units available in Europe. They have a system that interlaces the back of the belt so it can't slide off the hans as easily much like the defnder. They just don't sell it here due to marketing reasons....
A window net is still a big help in preventing head injuries in a side impact. It keeps your head from exiting the car if its mounted far enough inboard.
Last edited by robjohnson; 11-11-2008 at 11:58 PM.
this is very sad, but it reminds me that safety is the number one priority. no matter what never skimp on safety equipment
RIP Cale
This is really sad.
And I'm heading to Summit this weekend with a roll bar, fixed seat, harness, and no HANS
Any performance shops in the southeastern PA area stock HANS devices?
I have a feeling I'm SOL.
85 325e m60b44 6 speed / 89 535i/5
e30 restoration and V8 swap
The finished product!
OG Racing is at the track.
PM Bimmer3 right away and reference this thread.
Craig BricknerClick to Join: BMWCCA # 366493
BMW CCA/PBOC/Chin Motorsports DE Instructor
2008 M3 Sedan Jerez/Black
85 325e m60b44 6 speed / 89 535i/5
e30 restoration and V8 swap
The finished product!
This from S2KI forum:
Four of Cale's friends from Hagerstown flew a helicopter down to Summit Point today and I took them out to Turn 1 and we viewed Cale's car. We spent about 45 minutes looking at the skid marks and then went to the maintenance bay and examined his car closely, especially the tires and brakes.
It doesn't look like there's going to be any accident investigation since it was on a race track the DOT doesn't get involved. I was a trained aircraft accident investigator in the Air Force and have some knowledge of auto accident analysis. After reviewing my in-car video, examining the car and the crash site my personal "most probable cause" is a catastrophic right side brake rotor disintegration which caused the car to rotate left.
My in-car video shows a small "flash" from the right side of Cale's car that looked like tire smoke, but all 4 of Cale's tires were still inflated--I actually checked the air pressure. The car's right side brake rotors were both cracked which could have been caused by the impact, but the rear rotor was completely gone. The "tire smoke" could have been the brake dust and rotor debris from a right rear rotor disintegration. We did a sweep along the braking zone but didn't find any brake parts but BSR has been running training on the circuit. His brake fluid level was normal and all of his brake pads had plenty of material left.
If one of the right side rotors broke up it could have pitched the car into a left hand slide. The loss of a rotor can also allow the brake caliper piston to fully extend which would allow the brake pedal to soften or even go to the floor.
The skid marks at the track were easy to follow from about 50 feet from the edge of the track to the wall. The car was sliding with about 30-50 degrees of left yaw from on the track abeam the access road all the way to the wall.
The car's right side hit the wall pretty much flat against the wall while still in the slide. He didn't hit right front like I initially thought.
I now believe the car went to the left because of a brake failure, not because Cale was trying to take the access road to miss the tire wall.
All the safety equipment was intact. The seat, harness, and cockpit were not compromised.
After seeing the impact marks on the wall and seeing how much of a side impact it was, I realize how hard he hit and don't know if a head restraint would have saved his life, but it certainly wouldn't have made it any worse.
On another note, Brenda and I plan to be there Thursday and Friday for the viewing, ceremony, and reception.
Craig BricknerClick to Join: BMWCCA # 366493
BMW CCA/PBOC/Chin Motorsports DE Instructor
2008 M3 Sedan Jerez/Black
OG is at the track, Apexperformance.net stocks them and are great people to work with. I'd be stunned if HMS doesn't stock them as well. Shouldn't be a problem to get one to you by tomorrow so that you have plenty of time to do the install on your helmet. Worst case, buy some helmet anchors and borrow a HANS. That would give you a chance to bargain shop and save a small fortune on shipping.
Looks promising. Any idea what the price is?
Last edited by txse46m3; 11-12-2008 at 12:08 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Car54, thanks for posting this. This is an unfortunate incident and we're all very sorry for Cale's family. I'm appreciative that we now have some understanding of what happened and why. The discussions that inevitably follow this type of incident regarding safety equipment aren't meant to disrespect or draw away from the remorse. We all have a vested interest in understanding the situation for our own safety and this is generally why these posts digress. It's unfortunate that we don't typically have this thorough of a post incident report to learn from.
No. Their website promises only that it'll be an affordable alternative. I could find no mention of actual pricing.
Last edited by Michael9218; 11-12-2008 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Very sorry to hear about this, my condolences to family and friends who knew this person.
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I don't think anyone has mentioned an interior right-side net in any of the prior responses as part of a complete restraint system. I was somewhat annoyed about having to put one in my car over the winter, but after reading and hearing this, my opinion has changed.
2010 BMW Club Racing E30 M3 Touring Car Champion, 2011 and 2013 SCCA National Championship Runoffs 3rd Place, STU, 2011 SCCA Jim Fitzgerald Rookie of the Year, 2012 SCCA Northeast Division STU Champion, 2015 SCCA Runoffs Pole Position Daytona/STU
I calculated more like 20g's...assuming he hit at 90mph. S2000's were seeing about 130mph on 10-1 straight.
Craig BricknerClick to Join: BMWCCA # 366493
BMW CCA/PBOC/Chin Motorsports DE Instructor
2008 M3 Sedan Jerez/Black
$550+tax & shipping
http://www.trackpedia.com/forums/sho...?t=4718&page=2
'91 SpecE30 #523
'12 F30 328i Sport Line
'00 F-350 Dually
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