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Thread: Unfortunate Incident at SPR Main during NASA TT

  1. #1
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    Post Unfortunate Incident at SPR Main during NASA TT

    Some of you may have heard, some not.

    I wanted to wait to post this until more people were notified but thought that now is the right time.

    I was at the track when this happened and believe me, it was eerie and the first time I've ever seen a helicopter come to a track.

    The driver was Cale Kastanek driving a S2000.

    This is so sad and unfortunate.

    Here's the link: http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...ic=647468&st=0

    RIP Cale.
    Craig Brickner
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    That sucks. RIP.
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    Oh man. I met that guy once earlier this year. Man I hate seeing this stuff.

    My prayers go to his family and friends.

    anyone know if he had a hans?
    Last edited by dejablu311; 11-11-2008 at 01:02 PM.

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    Very sad Seemed like a great guy.

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    Bummer. RIP Cale.


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    Quote Originally Posted by dejablu311 View Post
    Oh man. I met that guy once earlier this year. Man I hate seeing this stuff.

    My prayers go to his family and friends.

    anyone know if he had a hans?
    HANS is designed specificaly to prevent the type of injury that reportedly killed him. There is no mention if he was using HANS or not.

    Joe

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    I understand he was not from someone who knew him well...they were planning a group buy on them in the near future for next year.

    Details haven't been released on the specifics of the accident, but for those who don't know the track....coming into that turn, a S2000 running Cale's lap times would be in the 135mph range.
    Craig Brickner
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    This is such a devastating loss to the family and friends. My prayers go out to them.

    On a serious note, and as someone else already mentioned, did Cale use a HANS? Also are there pictures of the S2K? I ask just in curiosity regarding the result of the damage and how the S2k stood up. During last years 12 hr enduro I hit a deer and lost control coming into T1 coming close to the barriers...it was a scary moment especially because the runoff and gravel trap dont extend to the left of T1 leaving a straight path through the access road . Without brakes, that access road wont slow you down and wll lead you into the skidpad.

    Terrible situation, I am so sorry for all involved through family and friends.

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    I hate seeing this stuff, always feels like I lost a relative even if I've never met them
    My thoughts and condolences to his family.
    And please guys, we all know we want the best safety gear we can afford. If it comes down to safety or performance, please pick safety. Our cars are getting insanely fast.

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    sorry i posted right after yours and missed the info regarding the Hans

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    A sad story.

    Not commenting on this case at all--everyone running competitive events should have a HANS. They are less than the cost of a set of tires. Don't wait any longer to save $50 on a group buy. Do it now for you and your family.
    Kyle Burkhardt
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    Cale's incident had nothing to do with competition....this could have happened to anyone on the track all weekend long, with exception of speed. Anyone who goes on track...take safety seriously.

    The incident earlier in May by the Mini driver had me very concerned with safety. I let it slide through the season and this winter I was planning to get back on top of it. This pushes me over the edge.

    For guys that know safety better than me, would the trauma be any different with a 3pt factory harness? Are lateral impacts, while in harnesses, significantly worse than 3pt?
    Craig Brickner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
    Cale's incident had nothing to do with competition....this could have happened to anyone on the track all weekend long, with exception of speed. Anyone who goes on track...take safety seriously.

    The incident earlier in May by the Mini driver had me very concerned with safety. I let it slide through the season and this winter I was planning to get back on top of it. This pushes me over the edge.

    For guys that know safety better than me, would the trauma be any different with a 3pt factory harness? Are lateral impacts, while in harnesses, significantly worse than 3pt?
    Here is some info,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HANS_device

    from what research I have done you need at least a 4 point harness designed to be used with a HANS to be effective.

    Joe

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    You can't use a HANS (as it is intended) with a 3 pt. I think what he meant was 3pt and no HANS v. 4+pt with no HANS (or similar device). Total guess--3 pt is better because it allows more movement of the shoulder with the head. With 4 pt, the only thing that moves is head and that's what causes the basilar fracture.
    Kyle Burkhardt
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    Correct. At least a 4 point must be used for the hans to work.

    I really think a full harness and hans should be required for TT. I understand it simply isn't feasable for DE's but Time Trials is competitive and every bit as fast as the racers. This kind of thing is just going to keep happening. Just my opinion.
    Last edited by dejablu311; 11-11-2008 at 04:23 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cosM3os View Post
    You can't use a HANS (as it is intended) with a 3 pt. I think what he meant was 3pt and no HANS v. 4+pt with no HANS (or similar device). Total guess--3 pt is better because it allows more movement of the shoulder with the head. With 4 pt, the only thing that moves is head and that's what causes the basilar fracture.
    That's exactly what I meant...I've read that 3pt has its advantages. Obviously no one can predict the exact type of impact you'll have, but it just seems that any significant impact with a harness on will do serious damage.
    Craig Brickner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
    That's exactly what I meant...I've read that 3pt has its advantages. Obviously no one can predict the exact type of impact you'll have, but it just seems that any significant impact with a harness on will do serious damage.
    Well, now you are going a little too far. 3pt belts are part of a safety system that costs millions of dollars to design, engineer and test.

    Harnesses are also part of a safety system--one that includes a proper seat, cage, and HANS. People get in trouble when they start mixing part of the two systems.

    I'll take a proper stock system on the street and a proper race system on the track, thank you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosM3os View Post
    Well, now you are going a little too far. 3pt belts are part of a safety system that costs millions of dollars to design, engineer and test.

    Harnesses are also part of a safety system--one that includes a proper seat, cage, and HANS. People get in trouble when they start mixing part of the two systems.

    I'll take a proper stock system on the street and a proper race system on the track, thank you.
    Exacty. Without a proper roll bar or cage, properly fastened fixed seat, and quality harnesses the hans is useless and will probably be more dangerous. I think all these things should be required in any type of competitive track event.

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    a few pics I took on Saturday of the S2k's....



    Last edited by Sammyzuko; 11-11-2008 at 04:53 PM.

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    RIP

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    Quote Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
    Cale's incident had nothing to do with competition....this could have happened to anyone on the track all weekend long, with exception of speed. Anyone who goes on track...take safety seriously.
    We can only speak to what we do ourselves on track, but I know I push harder in a competitive environment than in a DE setting. Actually, I push hardest in testing...in a race I only push hard enough to get to the front...if that makes any sense.

    The incident earlier in May by the Mini driver had me very concerned with safety. I let it slide through the season and this winter I was planning to get back on top of it. This pushes me over the edge.

    For guys that know safety better than me, would the trauma be any different with a 3pt factory harness? Are lateral impacts, while in harnesses, significantly worse than 3pt?
    Quote Originally Posted by Car54 View Post
    That's exactly what I meant...I've read that 3pt has its advantages. Obviously no one can predict the exact type of impact you'll have, but it just seems that any significant impact with a harness on will do serious damage.
    Maybe it's my limited imagination, but I cant think of an impact that would be better in a 3pt than it would be in a 5/6pt + HNR of some type.

    I've always been a little dubious of the safety requirements of TT because of my own inclinations for pushing hard in a competitive setting. I don't think I'm that abnormal.

    Perhaps a harness bar + 5/6pt + HNR rule is coming for TT? It would probably drop attendance pretty hard for a while.
    FMJ Motorsports
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    Quote Originally Posted by dejablu311 View Post
    Exacty. Without a proper roll bar or cage, properly fastened fixed seat, and quality harnesses the hans is useless and will probably be more dangerous. I think all these things should be required in any type of competitive track event.
    That simply is not true:

    http://www.elephantmotorsports.com/q...pro-p-532.html

    and:

    http://www.elephantmotorsports.com/contents/show/69

    Very sad indeed. I used the QFP and my HANS a couple times this year in my wifes mostly stock E46. I have owned my HANS device since 2001, shortly after the DE crash actually. I've always been a huge safey advocate and have spent a lot of my upgrade $$$ on this stuff.

    Cheers.
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  23. #23
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    Sad, sad news.

    Regarding the HANS, what you need is some way to disipate the energy without depositing it in your brain. Controlling the weight of your head/helmet is what the neck restraint devices do. By controlling the acceleration/deceleration you deposit energy in the straps and get rid of it in the stretch and as heat. What you don't want is for your brain to slide over your skull base then stop abruptly, causes trauma from dragging over the rough skull as well as axonal shear-you tear the nerves.
    After the death at NHIS a couple of years ago my wife insisted on me wearing a HANS. As she says, insurance will give her plenty of $$ but it has taken her too many years to train me that she doesn't want to have to do it with a new husband!


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    Quote Originally Posted by jbrannon7 View Post
    HANS is designed specificaly to prevent the type of injury that reportedly killed him. There is no mention if he was using HANS or not.

    Joe
    Not exactly...the ability of a HANS to guard against lateral movement is questionable. His car was hit on the right hand side, with the lateral movement being reported as the main cause of his most serious injuries, as opposed to a head on scenario in which the HANS is most directly designed to aid.

    In any event, no he was not wearing a HANS. Sure a heck wouldn't have hurt though...

    RIP Cale, I still owe you dinner, so I'll see you later.
    Last edited by PrematureApex; 11-11-2008 at 05:58 PM.

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    i drove with him one weekend. Cale was fast!!! if i wasn't at 100% all the time, he would leave me. too bad these things happen.

    pray for his family to have the strength to cope with their loss.
    David Ortiz

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