E39 Front Strut Assembly Question - Washers...

[bimmerfiver]

Should I replave #6 and #7 when installing a new suspension?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...56&hg=31&fg=10

Jason5driver asks, "Should I replace # 6 and #7?"

Great question Jason.

My answer is why not? Allow me to ramble on for eighteen minutes...

The # 6 dust cover washer is paper thin, it's actually the thickness of five pieces of Reynolds Tin Foil, it costs $2.00 each, my dealer actually stocked them and it gave me the main thing we all want...a peace of mind.

As to washer # 7, again, The Washer Wizard says to replace them; they are $2.00 each and most likely abused, used and tattooed (sounds like the title of a pron movie).

Don't take # 6 and # 7 for granted, that's my thrust! Do 99% of us simply re-use them? Yes. Does this make it right? No. In fact, look here:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...55&hg=31&fg=10

Above we can see # 11!!! Yes, BMW has a washer (most likely a lock washer a mmm635 suggests) way up top! This is overlooked peoples!!! MMM635 offered, "Make sure you use a 9/16" Grade 8 lock washer underneath the nylock nut. This was the cause of my front end clunk", he said. You can't use a piece of crap, cheesy lockwasher, it HAS to be exactly what mmm635 said.


Also, the above link shows # 3 and # 4, what we refer to as the Strut Pinch Bolt. In my opinion (and I believe Zeckenhausen agrees) the # 3 bolt and # 4 nut should indeed be REPLACED when doing a front strut job. We replace the bolts used on our front bearings, right? Welp that strut pinch bolt is placed under a lot of stress too and when you tighten it like Mad Max in Australia, with 1/2" tools, you can get the sense that yeah, you could break that bolt. So, replace it, use blue locktite and stfu. I am also a fan of using Brake Anti-Seize on areas of bolts so they do not rust/get frozen. Use it lightly, very lightly and don't mix it with blue lock tite.


I am fan of BLUE LOCKTITE for the # 4 nut. I also put blue locktite on my sway bar link's threads (I am effin tired of sway bar links and feel blue locktite will be my friend).

You need 1/2" tools to work on the suspension. And you need to talk to me/feed me bacon cheeseburgers medium rare with lotsa ketchup.

[Jason5driver]

What is #8???
Same 9/16" grade 8 washer?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...56&hg=31&fg=10

[bimmerfiver]

what is #8???
Same 9/16" grade 8 washer?

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...56&hg=31&fg=10

do not discuss # 8.

it will confuse.

why? Cause # 8 is already within # 9...you'll never see # 8 in your lifetime, unless your strut assembly is so fubared that it exploded # 8 and fractured it etc.

yeah, take a peak at # 8. When you dismantle the strut assembly, clean the spring perch with wd-40 and a clean rag. Clean # 6 and 7 with the same rag (it'll all be very dirty and filled with dust/sand etc). Place some light coating of synthetic brake grease on the bottom of # 6 and both sides of # 7. Why? It makes me happy, that's why and it'll keep those washers happier.

[bimmerfiver]

WASHERS IT DOESN'T STOP. OH YOU WANT MY WASHERS ON THE WALL, YOU NEED THEM ON THAT WALL, THE WASHERS YOU WHISPER ABOUT AT YOUR COCKTAIL PARTIES YOU WIMPS.

PEOPLE'S, MY FRONT END HAS A CLUNK, BOTH SIDES AND AS MMM635 PREDICTED (AS IT HAPPENED TO HIM). IT'S A SLIGHT 'POP' NOISE AS I SHIFT WEIGHT IN THE CAR OR GO OVER SOME BUMPS. DON'T YOU TELL ME IT'S MY SWAY BAR LINKS, THEY ARE NEW, LEMFORDER AND EVERY PART IN MY FRONT END IS NEW. THE NOISE IS VERY HIGH UP, FEELS LIKE IT'S IN THE WINDSHIELD CORNERS.

GUESS WHAT IT IS? YES...YES...# 3 ABOVE IN THE PICTURE, # 3 HERE:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...56&hg=31&fg=10

AND # 11 HERE:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...55&hg=31&fg=10

INTERESTING THAT BMW DOES NOT HAVE A PART NUMBER FOR # 3 OR # 11, RIGHT? INTERESTING THAT MY STRUT ASSEMBLY DIDN'T HAVE A WASHER WHEN I TOOK IT APART AND THAT BILSTEIN DIDN'T INCLUDE ONE.

WELP GENTLEMEN, IF YOU DO NOT USE A "GRADE 8 9/16" LOCKWASHER" (PER MMM635) YOU WILL GET A CLUNK UP FRONT AND YOU WILL HAVE A SLOPPY FEEL IN YOUR STEERING WHEEL.

DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE THE POWER OF THIS WASHER. TOMORROW I WILL GET AIR TOOLS, ZIP OUT THE TOP STRUT NUTS, INSERT THE WASHERS AND ZIP DOWN THE NUT.

YES. WASHERS. YES. POOR FP5421 WON'T SLEEP TONIGHT AS HE THINKS, "MAN, DO I HAVE # 3 AKA # 11 WASHERS IN MY STRUT ASSEMBLIES? OR NOT? YES, OR NO? MAYBE? BUT MAYBE NOT." MY ADVICE TO FP5421 IS TO WATCH BLADERUNNER, IT'S A MELLOW, COOL FLICK. AND THEN TOMORROW, TAKE YOUR STRUT MOUNT DUST CAPS OFF AND TAKE A PEEK. IF YOU DON'T HAVE WASHERS, YOU GOT ISSUES.

[bimmerfiver]

Does anyone want a Grade 8 9/16" upper strut nut, lockwasher update?

[jnyost]

Please. For some reason I was getting the impression you didn't like washers....

[bimmerfiver]

Okay, so after some am conference calls and a cup of coffee, I embarked on my voyage, a quest to obtain some grade 8 (the grade of the alloy signifies it's strength, grade 5 is what the vast majority of hardware stores carry) 9/16" lockwashers.

My local hardware store, nope, he carried only grade 5. Not good enough, if you wanna battle Darth Vader, you better have a good lightsaber and great medical insurance; only Han Solo could fire shots at Vader and he was fortunate to get off five rounds which were blocked by teh Force.

So I go to a local auto parts store, "Nah man, we don't carry hardware stuff, go to Home Depot, they got grade 8 stuff."

Okay, walk around Home Depot to find that not only do they not carry Grade 8, but they do not have even ONE 9/16" lock washer at all!

Off I went to the 4th pitstop, a True Value Hardware Store...they had exactly what we need, grade 8 9/16" lockwashers (I bought a total of 6 of them so if anyone is doing their front struts soon, I have them in stock for you).

I went to my local shop where I have access to lifts and tools. Leaving the car on the ground I loosened the top strut nuts with the air gun and a 22mm socket, simply placed the lockwashers on onto the rod, hand tightened the nut and then zipped it all the way with the air gun.

I felt it important to check the struts' position within their lower seat, make sure the 'L' and 'R' stickers on the struts were within their proper column. Good thing I checked...the passenger side strut was totally out of position AND it lifted up about 1/2". I had used some red locktite a few weeks ago, on the upper strut nuts so I imagine that when I used the air gun to loosen, it caught for a moment and turned the strut too. No problem, I simply put the car on the lift, loosened the pinch bolt on that strut, moved the strut back into position and all was well again.

Results? The popping noise, very slight clunk which I've had over bumps for two years time? It's gone.

I want to thank mmm635, I sincerely appreciate his time on the phone and ability to respond to questions so quickly, thank you Sir.

[jnyost]

So are you saying it was just simply the lock washers?

Fyi... the other place you can get those washer is places like TSC (farm store).

Jared

[mmm635]

Cheers...it's all good! It is amazing the difference a little piece of metal can make.

Did you a feel a difference in the feedback/responsiveness of the steering now that everything is nice and tight?

[jnyost]

Is the washer just taking up more space or do you thing the nuts were backing off? I'm guessing the space....

[16valex]

Is the washer just taking up more space or do you thing the nuts were backing off? I'm guessing the space....

I think it just taking up space. This clunking noise happened a lot to Bilstein struts, I guess they are a bit longer from where the number 9 sits to the first thread of the strut. When I removed mine there was a #3 washer (NOT lock washer) then the nut.

I think it is wise to stack a couple of washers in there before installing the NUT to be safe.

[jnyost]

If you have enough threads I sure don't think it would hurt.

[bimmerfiver]

Cheers...it's all good! It is amazing the difference a little piece of metal can make.

Did you a feel a difference in the feedback/responsiveness of the steering now that everything is nice and tight?

Yes, thank you Sir, I do feel my car is back to where it should've been.

A grade 8, 9/16' lockwasher...it makes sense to go with a lockwasher versus a flat washer, it's snug as a bug. The washer is fairly beefy, it's not flimsy and takes up some space.

Thanks again for your advice here, this whole structure of washers pertaining to the strut assembly was a true and real pain in the arse as one simply puts back together what one finds...and a mistake will continue to be repeated. My car is tight and quiet, next 'mods' are a Vanos/coolant swap complete with Stewart Water Pump, followed by some winter tires/wheels.

[Jason5driver]

Do you install blue lock-tite or red, on the bolts/nuts?
Do the strut mount bolts get lock washers too, with the lock-tite?
Thank you washer master!

[bimmerfiver]

Do you install blue lock-tite or red, on the bolts/nuts?
Do the strut mount bolts get lock washers too, with the lock-tite?
Thank you washer master!

Blue locktite on the center strut nut is overkill, but I like the sound of overkill. That center nut is self-locking, but locktite makes me happy.

The only lockwasher involved is that center one, it'll sit just under that center-rod nut. I imagine you could use a flat washer, but there again, a lockwasher sounds better too.

The strut mount is held in place by three, 11mm nuts and no, they don't get any washers at all.

I would say that after having 4 suspensions in my car and having to tweak things here and there with new strut mounts, I believe it's a very, very smart idea to replace the STRUT PINCH BOLTS AND NUTS. I believe BMW considers them a replace-as-you-do-the-suspension, numbers 3 & 4 here:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...55&hg=31&fg=10

I have lockwashers if you need em'.

[Jason5driver]

Crap!
Looks like I need to get the pinch bolts and nuts too!
I thought I had every thing, I guess not...

I also need to find the grade 8 - 9/16" lock washers, unless you have a huge abundance of them...

Thanks Yoda!

Jason

[mmm635]

The only lockwasher involved is that center one, it'll sit just under that center-rod nut. I imagine you could use a flat washer, but there again, a lockwasher sounds better too.

Koni actually included lock washers as part of the new hardware with the new struts/shocks. Guess they meant for them to be very tight for the greater forces of a stiffer suspension. If I remember correctly, all of my past BMW's have had flat washers in between the nylock nut and strut mount.

[jnyost]

Jason

Get the lock washers from TSC or somewhere on post. Those type of places carry grade 8 stuff.

Jared