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Thread: DIY: Build your sub box for $30 in 5 minutes. No woodworking skills necessary.

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98M345 View Post
    Do you not realize that you can't freakin assemble a sub enclosure with double sided tape?
    I did. And you cannot take it apart unless you take a 1/4 inch of wood with it on either side of the adhesive. - However, glue would be better and has been well established in this thread. Give that complaint up already.

    Do you realize that it is ghetto as he11 to take a sealed enclosure and turn it into a sealed enclosure? Besides, what is the chance that the darned sub that you already own is going to work properly with this new "ported" enclosure that you purchased. Or let me get this, you're gonna purchase the box first, and then go look for a sub that would work in it.
    Ghetto? How?

    You confuse me. You say sealed and turn it into a sealed, and I assumed it was a typo until the next statement "Besides, what is the chance that the darned sub that you already own is going to work properly with this new "ported" enclosure that you purchased"

    It is a sealed enclosure.

    Please go back and cite where any of the pros on here told any DIY consumer to f themselves. All we are doing is to try and raise awareness about a certain product.
    Here is an example:
    Can you imagine a guy with an E39 M5 and one of those boxes in the trunk? I would laugh, and applaud the salesman that pulled one over on him.
    Here is another one:
    My god people, this is a BMW forum and not Honda Civic forum. Take pride in the products that you purchase and install in your vehicles!
    Although these comments may have not used the F-word, you are basically calling the people who already purchased them idiots.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmannino View Post
    You have not even contributed any technical advise to this thread. Every response from you is just negative and does not contain valuable knowledge for new comers to gain from.
    This looks like one to me:
    Let's take the 12" version as an example. 1.55 cubic feet is NOT a small sealed enclosure! In fact, there are probably several woofers (ones with a low Q/low VaS) that would work great in a 1.55 cu. ft. ported enclosure (provided the math was done ahead of time so that expectations were realistic). Would it be ideal? Nope. Did Tom say it would? Nope.
    Oh, another?
    Secondly, please state the "Scientific fact that GENERALLY says [your words, not mine]" that an improperly sized ported enclosure will cause a voice coil to 'short out'. Considering that you thought the enclosure was too small, your statement makes no sense. If the enclosure was ported and undersized, it would most likely increase the power handling, increase system Q, boominess, etc. You're more likely to damage a subwoofer from a vented enclosure that's too large due to decreased power handling but that's just my opinion and it doesn't really apply here since you thought it was too small to begin with. A vented enclosure being too large would most likely cause mechanical damage due to over-excursion, decreased power handling, increase heat in the motor assembly, etc.
    So perhaps you can walk away and leave this conversation for people with experience and industry professionals so that new comers to box design and read and learn about the pro's and cons of a box like this.


    I remember saying he should sell this box elsewhere but its too late for that.
    And I remeber telling you that you were incorrect and to GTFO of my thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmannino View Post
    I have no reason to lie.
    But you have several times already:

    It is a scientific fact that ported boxes are generally larger in volume than their sealed counter parts. Taking a small sealed box (these boxes do seem like small sealed boxes, even though the volume is not shown. You can calculate the internal volume by using the given dimensions) and cutting a hole and installing a port would not only hinder the performance of the sub woofer, it can easily damage the woofer and cause the voice coil to short out, which can also damage the amplifier.
    First of all sceintific facts are never general. Cutting a hole and installing the CORRECT port will not hinder the performance in all subwoofers. Using blanket statements like this and saying that this can easily damage the woofer is incorrect. The problems caused by improperly ported boxes (which this is not) would be overexcursion and overpowering. Unless the contact leads were physically ripped off of the speaker with extreme excursion and they touched together, shorting would very rare (if ever). Overpowering could technically melt the voice coil and cause a short, but this would be a problem most likely linked to improper amplifier choices or settings. If overexcursion happens in this SEALED box it is because of the amplifer problems listed above. The air cushion in the box will prevent a properly chosen amplifier/speaker combo (and settings) from over-excursion and overpowering.

    As I stated in my posts, a high output sub woofer system with high output amp would easily break that box apart. My Digital Designs 12 inch woofer with 1500 watts behind it would easily destroy those boxes.
    [COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]Vendor[/color][/color], take a digital designs 9512 12 inch woofer, feed it 4000 watts and I'm sure you will see how a box can break apart.
    So will 1500w or 4000w do it? What's next 10000w? I suppose you have replaced your windows with bulletproof glass too?

    By the way, I changed my mind. Keep this bickering going. Since this stuff has started, we have sold a record number of these. It seems that BMW customers DO want a great $30 subwoofer enclosure in their car.

    (maybe they are also Honda owners )

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12v Electronics View Post

    By the way, I changed my mind. Keep this bickering going. Since this stuff has started, we have sold a record number of these. It seems that BMW customers DO want a great $30 subwoofer enclosure in their car.

    (maybe they are also Honda owners )


    Same thing happened back when BSW had their bickering tiff with ED. No such thing as bad press.

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    I don't consider this bad press. Just alot of people complaining about things that don't apply here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmannino View Post
    So you're telling me that everyone on this forum knows this box is not for every woofer? I did not know this knowledge was so common. Its strange but thousands of customers of mine have asked about the correct enclosure for their subs. How come those people did not know but every where knows?
    You haven't had multiple 1000's of customers. It sounds impressive and all but I call shenanigans. You're right that most people don't know if it's right. However, nobody said everyone here knows it is right either. They know that it's an entry level box, they know what the volume of said box is. They know what their speaker manufacturer recommends (possibly), etc. It's not rocket science. Those that don't know are asking questions of the seller and the rest of us - like they should - that's what we're here for. It's our job to assist someone within their budget. Don't tell them to build a "real" box and install a DD sub in there with 4000w (or did you want to make that 1000w this time?). This box is about throwing in a hundred dollar sub and kicking some ass over the bass that came with their stock system. This will lead to bigger, more expensive goods, materials, and labor rates as their interest grows. You and I both know that and we all started somewhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmanchild

    I dont think so. There are probably hundreds of people on this forum who do not have that knowledge so please leave it to people with professional experience to guide them into the correct box. You say everyone knows the box is not for every woofer, cmon, not everyone knows that. You should apologize for saying that.
    Dude, you've GOT to stop talking down to people like this. It's nothing an 'industry professional' would do. We are all potential customers and we like to talk. Word of mouth is a bitch when you travel the country doing shows. When a "self-proclaimed professional" tells me to take a seat and "leave it to the big boys", I tell that professional to promplty suck my d!ck. It's fukn rude and there is NO place here for it. Don't do it again. I have nothing to apologize for the reasons in my previous post above.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregbrady

    And I would have left this thread already but douche bags like you keep doing nothing but talking shit and addressing me back into the thread. You have not even contributed any technical advise to this thread. Every response from you is just negative and does not contain valuable knowledge for new comers to gain from. How many boxes have you designed and built? How many sub systems have you installed? Are you a industry professional? How many years have you been in the industry?

    I haven't contributed anything technical? Hmm... one of my technical contributions was rebutting your technical assertions about shorted out voice coils. I've installed more sub systems than I can count over the last 20 yrs. I also worked in the industry professionally for one year before I realized that I could actually make a helluva lot more money in other industrys - however, my building of systems never slowed down really. What does this have to do with my experience anyway? Why must I be qualified before I'm allowed to give advice? I think I've earned it. If it took you 1000's of enclosures to get good, that's just sad Greg. I'm sorry but you know I'm right. You start getting really good after the first 50, the rest consist of the adventure of getting quicker, finding shortcuts, etc. I was in building materials for 10 yrs before I became a network engineer. Woodworking is something I do. Get over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by greggy
    So perhaps you can walk away and leave this conversation for people with experience and industry professionals so that new comers to box design and read and learn about the pro's and cons of a box like this. Again, this box is great for entry level sub systems and im sure there are lots of people who would benefit from a box like this.
    There you go again.... *sigh* Stop trying to shoo away the elders that may be able to teach you a thing or two. It's possible that you're too stubborn to learn however. If that's so, good luck with building boxes for your college buddies. What makes you an 'industry professional' anyway? I know you used to have a website - what happened to it? I guess the $9.99 domain name registration fee was a bust. Sorry bro.

    Quote Originally Posted by GregBrady

    I apologize to the vendor for saying he should leave, although I dont remember saying he should leave entirely. I remember saying he should sell this box elsewhere but its too late for that.
    Yes, it's too late so give it up. You've said you're sorry so now you can shut your mouth and move along - no harm, no foul. Hell, I'll even give you a hug if it calms you down. You're doing nothing but harm at this point. You've us told everything that you think. You've told us that we're all backwoods installers and we should leave it to the professionals [presumably you] to give out the advice. By the way, you never told me what happened to your professional business? Was it successful? Should you blame it on the current financial climate? If not, what? Bad customer service? Too much competition in a saturated/dying market? Talking down to people by calling yourself a "professional guru" and the rest of us are "newbs", "commoners", "barbarians", etc. and that, as such, we have no place here by giving advice. Hey, I've sold a few of my creations over the years, I guess that makes me a professional as well. I refuse to call myself a guru though, that sounds pretty lame If I'm to be honest. Just come down a notch and talk to us like people. Don't pretend like what you say comes from down on high and is the end-all, be-all of the mobile electronics world. When you get a little older, you won't mind saying "I'm sorry"..... it's rather liberating. You'll see.

    So, I'm sorry Tom. Your thread is a mess now. Get the moderator to close this one and open another one if you like. Any post dumping on the new thread will be reported - period.

  5. #80
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    OMG that's funny. I love the names!! No problem here with the thread. It has become entertaining.

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    I don't think Tom would want this one closed... Entertaining "bumps" for his new product... He's gonna be rich before this is done...

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    Yep - Gettin rich on these. The $7 we make (total) (at my commision rate) per enclosure is gonna put my kid through college. (I hope)

    BTW-Your previous post is also incorrect:
    Quote Originally Posted by JOeyK View Post
    You will pick up about a 3db gain from a vented enclosure over a sealed. So, by spending an additional $110.00ish dollars, you have effectively added another sub for that price. PLUS, you would (hopefully, if you went to a good independent dealer) have a better constructed, better sounding enclosure, that is built to your car. It would be covered in a carpet that could match your trunk, and even built to fit a specific area of the trunk if you wanted. More bass, better looks, better functionality. All of that for a little over 100 bucks. That sounds like a deal to me!
    The 3db gain will only be at the ported frequency, so effectively you have not added another sub, but added double the output at the ported frequency only. Since the ported frequency is very specific with a steep rolloff on either side, this will not double your total output, but actually create a peak in your response. Proper application will yield a great result, but please do not say it is the same as having 2 identical speakers.
    Last edited by 12v Electronics; 10-27-2008 at 01:33 AM.

  8. #83
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    My family has been in the car audio industry since 1949. My grandfather was the owner of M&M Electronics; my father, brothers, even aunts have been in the trade. I've been practicing in the trade since I was a kid. I was a professional (in a shop) for 8 years. I was head installer at several shops, worked on exotic cars to everyday beater cars. I've done boats, RV's, motorcycles, trailers, even golf cars. I ran my own business for 3 years until I was offered a job that I could not turn down. I shut down shop and began my career in mechanical engineering.

    I've been working for 2 years at the DOE Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in the Engineering department. I'm very happy here and with the career change and I have no intention of ever going back into car audio. I'm glad I made the decision to shut down the business to practice Mech Engin.

    Is that enough experience for you guys?

    Can someone point out where I have lied in this thread?

    BlackSapphire, grow up with your name calling, that is truly an example of childish behavior but its no big deal, I'm not tripping. You are the one who is looking like a kid by doing it. I'm not going to bring myself to your level and call you names. Opps there I go again talking down.

    And about the 1000 watts with the DD12; the 1000 watts can do it, the 4000 watts can do it immediately. Get it.

    This thread is entertaining to me too guys, I enjoy a good debate. Tom, I have no problem with you. I assume the 12velectronics is not the only car audio business you own correct? I see a very limited amount of manufacturers that you carry, what gives? Do you need some help to pick up manufacturers? I know heads of many long term quality car electronics manufacturers.
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  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmannino View Post
    I was head installer at several shops
    Is that why your knees were dirty?

    Car Audio since 1949 huh? Was your family producing OEM radios for manufacturers? I have never heard of cars in 1949 using custom subwoofer enclosures with 4,000 watts that can blow up 3/4" mdf enclosures.

    FYI- Check out what Blaupunkt (same company you have been bashing thoroughout this thread) has accomplished:

    1923: Founding of the company in Berlin
    1924: Registration of the trade mark "Blaupunkt™"
    1932: First Car Radio in Europe
    1952: First VHF car radio in the world
    1959: One million Blaupunkt car radios sold
    1969: The first stereo car radio in the world
    1971: 10 million Blaupunkt car radios sold
    1974: First car radio with ARI
    1979: 25 million Blaupunkt car radios sold
    1980: First stereo-cassette-radio combination
    1982: Prototype of the first route guidance system EVA
    1988: The first RDS car radio
    1989: First European navigation system
    1990: 50 million Blaupunkt radios sold
    1995: First Blaupunkt DAB receiver
    1996: Dynamic navigation system for the Japanese market
    1997: The Radiophone: the first car radio/ mobile phone combined unit
    1999: Production of the 100 millionth Blaupunkt car radio
    2001: 1 million navigation systems sold! Plus presentation of the first DAB car radios MP3
    2002: First online-linked navigation system
    2003: DAB-/ MP3-car radio with ˜Digital Recorder™"

  10. #85
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    Thats nice buddy. You can go ahead and sport Blaupunkt in your car then.
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  11. #86
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    The drama, the intrigue, the waving of e-schlongs. My god, how did I miss this thread??

    I can't be bothered multi-quoting so I'm just gonna pick one.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmannino View Post
    How many boxes have you designed and built? How many sub systems have you installed? Are you a industry professional? How many years have you been in the industry?

    So perhaps you can walk away and leave this conversation for people with experience and industry professionals so that new comers to box design and read and learn about the pro's and cons of a box like this.
    So what is an industry professional? What quals do they have? In my part of the world there's no qualification needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by gmannino View Post
    Again, this box is great for entry level sub systems and im sure there are lots of people who would benefit from a box like this.
    Which is why it was marketed as a $30 diy box.


    This thread is just completely mad.


    And for the people who think this is too cheap for a BMW forum, get over yourselves.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by 12v Electronics View Post


    Yep - Gettin rich on these. The $7 we make (total) (at my commision rate) per enclosure is gonna put my kid through college. (I hope)

    BTW-Your previous post is also incorrect:


    The 3db gain will only be at the ported frequency, so effectively you have not added another sub, but added double the output at the ported frequency only. Since the ported frequency is very specific with a steep rolloff on either side, this will not double your total output, but actually create a peak in your response. Proper application will yield a great result, but please do not say it is the same as having 2 identical speakers.

    Typically, subs are playing a pretty specific range of frequencies. The are filtered usually by a crossover in the sub amplifier or some instances the radio, or outboard processor. I think your response is misleading, maybe moreso than mine. Yes, the ported output will be greatest closest to the tuning frequency. But, it will not be a brick wall on both sides! It will peak and roll on both sides. Guess what?, typically if you are using a crossover point around 70,80,90 (depending on how stout your midbass drivers are, etc..) that peak and roll will be a pretty decent increase over the sealed application in the frequency range being played.

    If I had said "Have a shop build a bandpass enclosure and you will see drastic increases in output over a sealed enclosure", then yes, your reply might be warranted, because, yes, it will be very peaky.

    It is not so much the same with vented alignments.. Plot some enclosures on any modeling software, or better yet, build some test enclosures. You will see/HEAR what I am saying... (excuse any grammar issues, just waking up ...)

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    I want one of these enclosures.
    Tom, Which size would you recommend for my sub ?

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    Had a few minutes at work so I plotted a 12w6 in 1.25 sealed and 2.0 vented, so everyone could see the differences.

    The lightened area is the typical usable range of a subwoofer (maybe go up a little higher if you have weaker door speakers..).

    You can see this instance, the full range of frequency is louder, and as tom mentioned louder near tuning...
    Attached Images Attached Images

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    What is the difference between the red line and the yellow ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by randomy View Post
    What is the difference between the red line and the yellow ?

    Oh, sorry, guess I should have pointed that out..

    The red line is the vented enclosure, and the yellow line is the sealed enclosure...

    sorry..

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    Quote Originally Posted by 98M345 View Post
    You crack me with this line man. 9 BOXES!!!! Wow, that's insane. I think that I built 9 boxes by the time I was 17 years old.

    According to what you just said, you have about the same hands-on experience as an average Best Buy installer.

    I've always been told that the more work that you do, the more knowledge you gain. But I guess this is not true after all.

    Anyway, keep up the good work. Hope you enjoy your prefabs, and don't quit your day job, "Dogg."
    I hate to be taking sides with this but Ken is my friend and his last enclosure was insanely loud and built by himself. Two 10" Orion subs that combined are as old as he is. It was loud, like heard coming down the road loud before you could see the truck... That is just one of the enclosures he has made and it worked flawlessly. I assume his new AE subwoofer and enclosure will be just as stellar in the e34.

    Just because someone has not physically done something 1,000's of times does not make them 'not an expert'.

    On the topic at hand, the pre-fab enlosure built by Tom. As a long time BMW 'modder' I can say that it fits a need. Not everyone has the space to have a woodshop and certainly most people don't want to invest in the tools required to built a proper enclosure to build one box. At that point you have spent hundreds more than needed. Why not try a pre-fab at that point?

    Is the enclosure bad? I don't personally think it is terrible. Is it for everyone? No and Tom said that. Is it perfect? Nope. Does it need to be? Nope.

    The thing is Tom even recommended to seam seal it with wood glue. So he is saying you may want to further increase the quality of the box if you want to. I have not personally tested it so I cannot comment but it sounds like the double sided tape is pretty stout. 3M makes some double sided tape that holds window glass in sky scrapers so to say 'it has double sided tape so it sucks' is kind of a stretch.(look up 3m VHB).

    Here is where I do get a bit upset. I have a standard BSW 'pre-fab' box in the trunk of my e28. Am I not an enuthisiasts? Are you going to laugh at me?

    You have to consider that the BMW world goes from 1986 325eS(and even a 1986 535i) to a 2008 M3 Convertible. Maybe someone loves the BMW brand and can only afford 1986 325eS. Should he then spend hundreds on a custom box, hundreds on a top high line super woofer and more hundreds on a high end amp? Or could he grab the prefab box from Tom, assemble it himself and install with BSW and Tom's(and the bf.c Car Audio Section) guidance and realize some bass in his great car? I think in that situation TOm's 30 dollar enclosure and a sub/amp combo from Tom would be great. Don't you?

    My real problem is that when posters do come into this area and ask for guidance the items that happen are:

    1. Make fun of them, call them a noob and ask them to search.
    2. Make fun of the 'cheap' equipment they bought
    3. Make some sarcastic jokes
    4. Someone comes in and actually offers guidance.

    Who do you want to be at the end of the day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by randomy View Post
    What is the difference between the red line and the yellow ?
    About $150.

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    Tom, I can't PM you. You have too many messages.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halston Pitman View Post
    1. Make fun of them, call them a noob and ask them to search.
    2. Make fun of the 'cheap' equipment they bought
    3. Make some sarcastic jokes
    4. Someone comes in and actually offers guidance.

    Who do you want to be at the end of the day?
    I came in here to offer guidance and my opinion that comes from more than a decade of daily professional experience. I expect a lot of people on here might appreciate my advice and explanations, as much as I would appreciate help when I have engine problems. I don't deal in engine work, I stick to electrical and fabrication, and I have no problem admitting I can't work on my own E30 motor.

    But instead of listening to my viewpoint and having a debate, I got some sideways comments about myself, which were totally unneeded. Are any of you going to come to Blvd Customs for a new stereo? Unless you live in St. Pete, FL, probably not. My only gain by helping out with guidance is a more informed public. When someone teaches me something I didn't know, I say thank you, I don't talk shit to them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by randomy View Post
    Tom, I can't PM you. You have too many messages.
    Sorry, should be good now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gmannino View Post

    BlackSapphire, grow up with your name calling, that is truly an example of childish behavior but its no big deal, I'm not tripping. You are the one who is looking like a kid by doing it. I'm not going to bring myself to your level and call you names. Opps there I go again talking down.
    Ha.... that's freakin' epic (as evidenced below):

    Quote Originally Posted by gmannino

    And I would have left this thread already but douche bags like you keep doing nothing but talking shit and addressing me back into the thread.
    I will take this opportunity to call you one final name. You are a shitty debater!

    P.S. Pics of the 1949 car audio systems your family installed or it didn't happen. Don't trip, keep that car 'hard' yo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pepsi870 View Post
    I came in here to offer guidance and my opinion that comes from more than a decade of daily professional experience. I expect a lot of people on here might appreciate my advice and explanations, as much as I would appreciate help when I have engine problems. I don't deal in engine work, I stick to electrical and fabrication, and I have no problem admitting I can't work on my own E30 motor.

    But instead of listening to my viewpoint and having a debate, I got some sideways comments about myself, which were totally unneeded. Are any of you going to come to Blvd Customs for a new stereo? Unless you live in St. Pete, FL, probably not. My only gain by helping out with guidance is a more informed public. When someone teaches me something I didn't know, I say thank you, I don't talk shit to them.
    You have a great attitude and I never attacked you.... Greg is getting beat on because he claims to know it all. His mind can't fathom the possibility that he screwed up and stuck his foot in his mouth. I mean really, who gives a shit who has more experience? I don't need everyone's bio. Can't we all just share what we know and accept that there is always someone that knows something you don't? To think otherwise is sad on so many levels.

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    Escortizzle
    My only beef, and the only reason I keep going off ona tangent is because I've had SO many problems with people who call themselves 'professionals' in this industry. Those same 'professionals' are the ones who I've seen screw customers, steal from customers, burn their own shops down for insurance, etc. etc. etc. I was attempting to make a point, a point that just because you may know what you're talking about, doesn't mean that makes you, a 'professional', better than anybody else who happens to be knowledible about car audio. 'Professionals' have a poor image in this industry. Talking yourself up just because you happen to be capable, and talking down to others who, just because we don't work in the industry anymore or enver did, keeps pushing us away from shops,a nd telling people not to buy their stuff in a shop and install it themselves.

  25. #100
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    42
    My Cars
    05 325i
    Quote Originally Posted by kendogg View Post
    Well designed, as in, how it's put together. PLEASE explain how this encosure isn't well built. I beg to differ. You complain about the screw holes stripping?? Like I said to the jagoff from Maxxsonics, apparently you don't understand what holds an enclosure together either??

    I'm sure you can make this enclosure stronger as well. I never said you cannot. For 75% of the buying public buying 'average' or even 'good' woofers, this enclosure might be fine (so long as airspace requirements are met, obviously), nobody ever said you should be using this enclosure to burp at an SPL comp.
    Wow,

    One post and I'm already a "jagoff" from the gentleman above that has built 6 boxes and has me figured out already.

    I joined this forum because I am a BMW owner and a fan.
    I figured this would be a place where other enthusiasts would discuss topics in a more professional manner then the typical car audio public forms.

    Perhaps I was wrong.

    Apparently there are a few in this forum that are far more experienced then me and would rather try to jam an opinion down peoples throats rather then discus the issues in a professional and productive manner.

    After reading all of the posts in this topic, I think I'll join in on another post and hope to avoid the key board commandos.
    John Studley
    V.P. of Product Development
    MBQUART / Hifonics
    Autotek / Crunch

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