I did. And you cannot take it apart unless you take a 1/4 inch of wood with it on either side of the adhesive. - However, glue would be better and has been well established in this thread. Give that complaint up already.
Ghetto? How?Do you realize that it is ghetto as he11 to take a sealed enclosure and turn it into a sealed enclosure? Besides, what is the chance that the darned sub that you already own is going to work properly with this new "ported" enclosure that you purchased. Or let me get this, you're gonna purchase the box first, and then go look for a sub that would work in it.
You confuse me. You say sealed and turn it into a sealed, and I assumed it was a typo until the next statement "Besides, what is the chance that the darned sub that you already own is going to work properly with this new "ported" enclosure that you purchased"
It is a sealed enclosure.
Here is an example:Please go back and cite where any of the pros on here told any DIY consumer to f themselves. All we are doing is to try and raise awareness about a certain product.
Here is another one:Can you imagine a guy with an E39 M5 and one of those boxes in the trunk? I would laugh, and applaud the salesman that pulled one over on him.
Although these comments may have not used the F-word, you are basically calling the people who already purchased them idiots.My god people, this is a BMW forum and not Honda Civic forum. Take pride in the products that you purchase and install in your vehicles!
This looks like one to me:
Oh, another?Let's take the 12" version as an example. 1.55 cubic feet is NOT a small sealed enclosure! In fact, there are probably several woofers (ones with a low Q/low VaS) that would work great in a 1.55 cu. ft. ported enclosure (provided the math was done ahead of time so that expectations were realistic). Would it be ideal? Nope. Did Tom say it would? Nope.
Secondly, please state the "Scientific fact that GENERALLY says [your words, not mine]" that an improperly sized ported enclosure will cause a voice coil to 'short out'. Considering that you thought the enclosure was too small, your statement makes no sense. If the enclosure was ported and undersized, it would most likely increase the power handling, increase system Q, boominess, etc. You're more likely to damage a subwoofer from a vented enclosure that's too large due to decreased power handling but that's just my opinion and it doesn't really apply here since you thought it was too small to begin with. A vented enclosure being too large would most likely cause mechanical damage due to over-excursion, decreased power handling, increase heat in the motor assembly, etc.So perhaps you can walk away and leave this conversation for people with experience and industry professionals so that new comers to box design and read and learn about the pro's and cons of a box like this.
And I remeber telling you that you were incorrect and to GTFO of my thread.I remember saying he should sell this box elsewhere but its too late for that.
But you have several times already:
First of all sceintific facts are never general. Cutting a hole and installing the CORRECT port will not hinder the performance in all subwoofers. Using blanket statements like this and saying that this can easily damage the woofer is incorrect. The problems caused by improperly ported boxes (which this is not) would be overexcursion and overpowering. Unless the contact leads were physically ripped off of the speaker with extreme excursion and they touched together, shorting would very rare (if ever). Overpowering could technically melt the voice coil and cause a short, but this would be a problem most likely linked to improper amplifier choices or settings. If overexcursion happens in this SEALED box it is because of the amplifer problems listed above. The air cushion in the box will prevent a properly chosen amplifier/speaker combo (and settings) from over-excursion and overpowering.It is a scientific fact that ported boxes are generally larger in volume than their sealed counter parts. Taking a small sealed box (these boxes do seem like small sealed boxes, even though the volume is not shown. You can calculate the internal volume by using the given dimensions) and cutting a hole and installing a port would not only hinder the performance of the sub woofer, it can easily damage the woofer and cause the voice coil to short out, which can also damage the amplifier.
As I stated in my posts, a high output sub woofer system with high output amp would easily break that box apart. My Digital Designs 12 inch woofer with 1500 watts behind it would easily destroy those boxes.So will 1500w or 4000w do it? What's next 10000w? I suppose you have replaced your windows with bulletproof glass too?[COLOR=blue! important][COLOR=blue! important]Vendor[/color][/color], take a digital designs 9512 12 inch woofer, feed it 4000 watts and I'm sure you will see how a box can break apart.
By the way, I changed my mind. Keep this bickering going. Since this stuff has started, we have sold a record number of these. It seems that BMW customers DO want a great $30 subwoofer enclosure in their car.
(maybe they are also Honda owners )
I don't consider this bad press. Just alot of people complaining about things that don't apply here.
You haven't had multiple 1000's of customers. It sounds impressive and all but I call shenanigans. You're right that most people don't know if it's right. However, nobody said everyone here knows it is right either. They know that it's an entry level box, they know what the volume of said box is. They know what their speaker manufacturer recommends (possibly), etc. It's not rocket science. Those that don't know are asking questions of the seller and the rest of us - like they should - that's what we're here for. It's our job to assist someone within their budget. Don't tell them to build a "real" box and install a DD sub in there with 4000w (or did you want to make that 1000w this time?). This box is about throwing in a hundred dollar sub and kicking some ass over the bass that came with their stock system. This will lead to bigger, more expensive goods, materials, and labor rates as their interest grows. You and I both know that and we all started somewhere.
Dude, you've GOT to stop talking down to people like this. It's nothing an 'industry professional' would do. We are all potential customers and we like to talk. Word of mouth is a bitch when you travel the country doing shows. When a "self-proclaimed professional" tells me to take a seat and "leave it to the big boys", I tell that professional to promplty suck my d!ck. It's fukn rude and there is NO place here for it. Don't do it again. I have nothing to apologize for the reasons in my previous post above.Originally Posted by gmanchild
I haven't contributed anything technical? Hmm... one of my technical contributions was rebutting your technical assertions about shorted out voice coils. I've installed more sub systems than I can count over the last 20 yrs. I also worked in the industry professionally for one year before I realized that I could actually make a helluva lot more money in other industrys - however, my building of systems never slowed down really. What does this have to do with my experience anyway? Why must I be qualified before I'm allowed to give advice? I think I've earned it. If it took you 1000's of enclosures to get good, that's just sad Greg. I'm sorry but you know I'm right. You start getting really good after the first 50, the rest consist of the adventure of getting quicker, finding shortcuts, etc. I was in building materials for 10 yrs before I became a network engineer. Woodworking is something I do. Get over it.Originally Posted by gregbrady
There you go again.... *sigh* Stop trying to shoo away the elders that may be able to teach you a thing or two. It's possible that you're too stubborn to learn however. If that's so, good luck with building boxes for your college buddies. What makes you an 'industry professional' anyway? I know you used to have a website - what happened to it? I guess the $9.99 domain name registration fee was a bust. Sorry bro.Originally Posted by greggy
Yes, it's too late so give it up. You've said you're sorry so now you can shut your mouth and move along - no harm, no foul. Hell, I'll even give you a hug if it calms you down. You're doing nothing but harm at this point. You've us told everything that you think. You've told us that we're all backwoods installers and we should leave it to the professionals [presumably you] to give out the advice. By the way, you never told me what happened to your professional business? Was it successful? Should you blame it on the current financial climate? If not, what? Bad customer service? Too much competition in a saturated/dying market? Talking down to people by calling yourself a "professional guru" and the rest of us are "newbs", "commoners", "barbarians", etc. and that, as such, we have no place here by giving advice. Hey, I've sold a few of my creations over the years, I guess that makes me a professional as well. I refuse to call myself a guru though, that sounds pretty lame If I'm to be honest. Just come down a notch and talk to us like people. Don't pretend like what you say comes from down on high and is the end-all, be-all of the mobile electronics world. When you get a little older, you won't mind saying "I'm sorry"..... it's rather liberating. You'll see.Originally Posted by GregBrady
So, I'm sorry Tom. Your thread is a mess now. Get the moderator to close this one and open another one if you like. Any post dumping on the new thread will be reported - period.
OMG that's funny. I love the names!! No problem here with the thread. It has become entertaining.
I don't think Tom would want this one closed... Entertaining "bumps" for his new product... He's gonna be rich before this is done...
Yep - Gettin rich on these. The $7 we make (total) (at my commision rate) per enclosure is gonna put my kid through college. (I hope)
BTW-Your previous post is also incorrect:
The 3db gain will only be at the ported frequency, so effectively you have not added another sub, but added double the output at the ported frequency only. Since the ported frequency is very specific with a steep rolloff on either side, this will not double your total output, but actually create a peak in your response. Proper application will yield a great result, but please do not say it is the same as having 2 identical speakers.
Last edited by 12v Electronics; 10-27-2008 at 01:33 AM.
My family has been in the car audio industry since 1949. My grandfather was the owner of M&M Electronics; my father, brothers, even aunts have been in the trade. I've been practicing in the trade since I was a kid. I was a professional (in a shop) for 8 years. I was head installer at several shops, worked on exotic cars to everyday beater cars. I've done boats, RV's, motorcycles, trailers, even golf cars. I ran my own business for 3 years until I was offered a job that I could not turn down. I shut down shop and began my career in mechanical engineering.
I've been working for 2 years at the DOE Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in the Engineering department. I'm very happy here and with the career change and I have no intention of ever going back into car audio. I'm glad I made the decision to shut down the business to practice Mech Engin.
Is that enough experience for you guys?
Can someone point out where I have lied in this thread?
BlackSapphire, grow up with your name calling, that is truly an example of childish behavior but its no big deal, I'm not tripping. You are the one who is looking like a kid by doing it. I'm not going to bring myself to your level and call you names. Opps there I go again talking down.
And about the 1000 watts with the DD12; the 1000 watts can do it, the 4000 watts can do it immediately. Get it.
This thread is entertaining to me too guys, I enjoy a good debate. Tom, I have no problem with you. I assume the 12velectronics is not the only car audio business you own correct? I see a very limited amount of manufacturers that you carry, what gives? Do you need some help to pick up manufacturers? I know heads of many long term quality car electronics manufacturers.
Owner - Bavarian Restoration
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Is that why your knees were dirty?
Car Audio since 1949 huh? Was your family producing OEM radios for manufacturers? I have never heard of cars in 1949 using custom subwoofer enclosures with 4,000 watts that can blow up 3/4" mdf enclosures.
FYI- Check out what Blaupunkt (same company you have been bashing thoroughout this thread) has accomplished:
1923: Founding of the company in Berlin
1924: Registration of the trade mark "Blaupunkt™"
1932: First Car Radio in Europe
1952: First VHF car radio in the world
1959: One million Blaupunkt car radios sold
1969: The first stereo car radio in the world
1971: 10 million Blaupunkt car radios sold
1974: First car radio with ARI
1979: 25 million Blaupunkt car radios sold
1980: First stereo-cassette-radio combination
1982: Prototype of the first route guidance system EVA
1988: The first RDS car radio
1989: First European navigation system
1990: 50 million Blaupunkt radios sold
1995: First Blaupunkt DAB receiver
1996: Dynamic navigation system for the Japanese market
1997: The Radiophone: the first car radio/ mobile phone combined unit
1999: Production of the 100 millionth Blaupunkt car radio
2001: 1 million navigation systems sold! Plus presentation of the first DAB car radios MP3
2002: First online-linked navigation system
2003: DAB-/ MP3-car radio with ˜Digital Recorder™"
Thats nice buddy. You can go ahead and sport Blaupunkt in your car then.
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The drama, the intrigue, the waving of e-schlongs. My god, how did I miss this thread??
I can't be bothered multi-quoting so I'm just gonna pick one.
So what is an industry professional? What quals do they have? In my part of the world there's no qualification needed.
Which is why it was marketed as a $30 diy box.
This thread is just completely mad.
And for the people who think this is too cheap for a BMW forum, get over yourselves.
Typically, subs are playing a pretty specific range of frequencies. The are filtered usually by a crossover in the sub amplifier or some instances the radio, or outboard processor. I think your response is misleading, maybe moreso than mine. Yes, the ported output will be greatest closest to the tuning frequency. But, it will not be a brick wall on both sides! It will peak and roll on both sides. Guess what?, typically if you are using a crossover point around 70,80,90 (depending on how stout your midbass drivers are, etc..) that peak and roll will be a pretty decent increase over the sealed application in the frequency range being played.
If I had said "Have a shop build a bandpass enclosure and you will see drastic increases in output over a sealed enclosure", then yes, your reply might be warranted, because, yes, it will be very peaky.
It is not so much the same with vented alignments.. Plot some enclosures on any modeling software, or better yet, build some test enclosures. You will see/HEAR what I am saying... (excuse any grammar issues, just waking up ...)
I want one of these enclosures.
Tom, Which size would you recommend for my sub ?
Had a few minutes at work so I plotted a 12w6 in 1.25 sealed and 2.0 vented, so everyone could see the differences.
The lightened area is the typical usable range of a subwoofer (maybe go up a little higher if you have weaker door speakers..).
You can see this instance, the full range of frequency is louder, and as tom mentioned louder near tuning...
What is the difference between the red line and the yellow ?
I hate to be taking sides with this but Ken is my friend and his last enclosure was insanely loud and built by himself. Two 10" Orion subs that combined are as old as he is. It was loud, like heard coming down the road loud before you could see the truck... That is just one of the enclosures he has made and it worked flawlessly. I assume his new AE subwoofer and enclosure will be just as stellar in the e34.
Just because someone has not physically done something 1,000's of times does not make them 'not an expert'.
On the topic at hand, the pre-fab enlosure built by Tom. As a long time BMW 'modder' I can say that it fits a need. Not everyone has the space to have a woodshop and certainly most people don't want to invest in the tools required to built a proper enclosure to build one box. At that point you have spent hundreds more than needed. Why not try a pre-fab at that point?
Is the enclosure bad? I don't personally think it is terrible. Is it for everyone? No and Tom said that. Is it perfect? Nope. Does it need to be? Nope.
The thing is Tom even recommended to seam seal it with wood glue. So he is saying you may want to further increase the quality of the box if you want to. I have not personally tested it so I cannot comment but it sounds like the double sided tape is pretty stout. 3M makes some double sided tape that holds window glass in sky scrapers so to say 'it has double sided tape so it sucks' is kind of a stretch.(look up 3m VHB).
Here is where I do get a bit upset. I have a standard BSW 'pre-fab' box in the trunk of my e28. Am I not an enuthisiasts? Are you going to laugh at me?
You have to consider that the BMW world goes from 1986 325eS(and even a 1986 535i) to a 2008 M3 Convertible. Maybe someone loves the BMW brand and can only afford 1986 325eS. Should he then spend hundreds on a custom box, hundreds on a top high line super woofer and more hundreds on a high end amp? Or could he grab the prefab box from Tom, assemble it himself and install with BSW and Tom's(and the bf.c Car Audio Section) guidance and realize some bass in his great car? I think in that situation TOm's 30 dollar enclosure and a sub/amp combo from Tom would be great. Don't you?
My real problem is that when posters do come into this area and ask for guidance the items that happen are:
1. Make fun of them, call them a noob and ask them to search.
2. Make fun of the 'cheap' equipment they bought
3. Make some sarcastic jokes
4. Someone comes in and actually offers guidance.
Who do you want to be at the end of the day?
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Tom, I can't PM you. You have too many messages.
I came in here to offer guidance and my opinion that comes from more than a decade of daily professional experience. I expect a lot of people on here might appreciate my advice and explanations, as much as I would appreciate help when I have engine problems. I don't deal in engine work, I stick to electrical and fabrication, and I have no problem admitting I can't work on my own E30 motor.
But instead of listening to my viewpoint and having a debate, I got some sideways comments about myself, which were totally unneeded. Are any of you going to come to Blvd Customs for a new stereo? Unless you live in St. Pete, FL, probably not. My only gain by helping out with guidance is a more informed public. When someone teaches me something I didn't know, I say thank you, I don't talk shit to them.
Ryan Pepsin
Custom Car Builder, SRQ Custom Autosound
Sarasota, FL
www.srqcustoms.com
Owner of a beautiful orange '87 325is
Ha.... that's freakin' epic (as evidenced below):
I will take this opportunity to call you one final name. You are a shitty debater!Originally Posted by gmannino
P.S. Pics of the 1949 car audio systems your family installed or it didn't happen. Don't trip, keep that car 'hard' yo.
You have a great attitude and I never attacked you.... Greg is getting beat on because he claims to know it all. His mind can't fathom the possibility that he screwed up and stuck his foot in his mouth. I mean really, who gives a shit who has more experience? I don't need everyone's bio. Can't we all just share what we know and accept that there is always someone that knows something you don't? To think otherwise is sad on so many levels.
My only beef, and the only reason I keep going off ona tangent is because I've had SO many problems with people who call themselves 'professionals' in this industry. Those same 'professionals' are the ones who I've seen screw customers, steal from customers, burn their own shops down for insurance, etc. etc. etc. I was attempting to make a point, a point that just because you may know what you're talking about, doesn't mean that makes you, a 'professional', better than anybody else who happens to be knowledible about car audio. 'Professionals' have a poor image in this industry. Talking yourself up just because you happen to be capable, and talking down to others who, just because we don't work in the industry anymore or enver did, keeps pushing us away from shops,a nd telling people not to buy their stuff in a shop and install it themselves.
Wow,
One post and I'm already a "jagoff" from the gentleman above that has built 6 boxes and has me figured out already.
I joined this forum because I am a BMW owner and a fan.
I figured this would be a place where other enthusiasts would discuss topics in a more professional manner then the typical car audio public forms.
Perhaps I was wrong.
Apparently there are a few in this forum that are far more experienced then me and would rather try to jam an opinion down peoples throats rather then discus the issues in a professional and productive manner.
After reading all of the posts in this topic, I think I'll join in on another post and hope to avoid the key board commandos.
John Studley
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