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Thread: s14 in a 2002?? whats better?

  1. #1
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    s14 in a 2002?? whats better?

    Im puting a new motor in my 71 2002 but need to know where can I get a e30 m3 s14 crate engine?!? or is that not the best choice?
    i cant find one anywhere..
    any thoughts would be appreciated
    thanks..

  2. #2
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    Try Metric Mechanic in Missouri. www.metricmechanic.com
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    s14.net

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    You should probably look for a used engine. There are no 'crate' engines that I know of. Plenty of places can build one to order, but it'll probably cost you well over $10k.

  5. #5
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    Whats better? Turbo S14, but that is big $$$$$. You can just rebuild your motor and build it stronger, then turbo it. It will be cheaper than an S14 (in turbo trim) and more powerful (than a non turbo S14).

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    I do not think you are getting solid advice here. Go to 2002faq and search all the s14 related topics. I am a big fan of the s14 (and own a couple of E30 M3's) but not necessarily in a 2002. The characteristics of the engine are lots of vibration and it really does not make power until 4k. The install hads to be very well engineered for it to have a good result. There are a plethoria of issues (thin motor mounts to clear the plenum, cooling issues, electronics, etc) that have to be adressed. This is not plug and play. I personally think that a well tuned M10 with perhaps a 292 cam and a lynx manifold with a single 45 or a set of twin 40's is much more characteristic of what a 2002 should be and I think it is easy to lose much of the basic goodness of the 2002 with an s14. The other issue is that s14's are extremely expensive to build and maintain. It is easy to spend 15k on a rebuild. The evo3 stroker in my car was close to 19k. You need to do your research before jumping into an s14.

  7. #7
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    What would solid advice be? He wasnt asking the specifics of how to install a S14 motor, only where to find a crate engine or a better engine to swap.


    In my first post, I was leaning towards the M10 turbo motor because that is what Im doing.

    To the OP, the M20 is a popular swap as is the M42 out of the late model E30 318 (some call the M42 the poor mans S14).

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  8. #8
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    alright alright.. thanks guys

  9. #9
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    I have to agree with M2002 regarding some of the less desirable characteristics of the S14.

    Yes, the S14 motor has an impressive racing history and can be driven hard but I don't prefer the buzzy-ness and lack of low end grunt in a street car.

    That being said, several sophisticated parts from an S14 can be used to build up a screaming M10.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by turb02 View Post
    What would solid advice be? He wasnt asking the specifics of how to install a S14 motor, only where to find a crate engine or a better engine to swap.


    In my first post, I was leaning towards the M10 turbo motor because that is what Im doing.

    To the OP, the M20 is a popular swap as is the M42 out of the late model E30 318 (some call the M42 the poor mans S14).
    My post wasn't specifically directed at you, so no offense. That said, he did also ask if it was the best choice. There wasn't much depth in the answers regarding that so I added a bit at a rudimentary level. I would also add that turbo M10's are probably not a great choice for a novice nor are any of the other transplants. The nature of his question indicates that perhaps he doesn't have a great deal of depth in this subject (nothing wrong with that). BTW, you can buy an s14 crate motor from BMW just like you can an M10.

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    I see such great results from a well built M10 turbo that I couldn't justify the expense and peripheral issues of using an S14. Then there's the whole tranny fitting issues and whatnot. I like that a 320 5 speed bolts right up to the M10 with little effort, I like that there are many examples of well done turbo conversions and I like that all parts are readily available. Plus you can reinforce and use more solid engine mounts and you don't have to worry about modifying steering components. Both are major work of course, but I see the S14 route having way more issues than the turbo M10. Shoot, if you just wants lots of power to have fun with you can even look at an STS turbo conversion and increase drivability with reduced underhood temps and less "stuff" crammed in the engine bay. I think an STS turbo system is what I would recommend looking into.

    Jose

  12. #12
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    ^ I agree up until the STS turbo statement. While they are a great alternative for V8's and some 6 cyl cars(that lack the abundance of room under the hood), the small 4 bangers might not fair so well with this setup due to the smaller displacement. But hey, Ive never done it so I cannot say.

    M2002, I wasnt thinking that you were directing that towards me, I was merely stating how I interpreted the OP question(s).


    All this being said, what is the purpose of the car? Are you pulling and putting a different motor in because the old one is tired or are you actually looking for a swap for more power? Will the car be tracked its entire life? On the weekends? Auto X? Street terror car? These questions were asked to me when I was in the same boat as you. Since those questions were asked and I knew that it wouldnt be a track only car (more street terror car and occasional auto X/HPDE car, I made my decision based on what would be best for ME, which was rebuilding the motor with turbo in mind.

    The head is being built with:
    +1 intake and exhaust valves (3 angle grind)
    new guides and seals
    titanium retainers
    double valve springs
    292 cam
    oversized eccentrics
    adjustable cam gear
    race prepped rockers
    ARP studs
    MLS head gasket

    The block will have:
    91mm forged flat top pistons
    new bearings eveywhere
    balanced rotating assembly
    probably shot peen the rods
    magnafluxed crank
    new oil pump and chain (guides too)

    You get the idea, the engine will be practically brand new and I will have ~3K in parts and labor. Then comes the turbo and associated parts. The turbo is used from a 2500 turbo desiel ram (HX35) ~$500, the ems is SDS that I bought used from a forum member for $825, the intake and fuel rail are from a E30 318 that I picked up for ~$200. All the other associated parts will add like the intercooler and plumbing, all new fuel lines, walbro fuel pump, exhaust manifold, new (larger) radiator, exhaust from the turbo back...

    Granted my car is a project that will be one for probably 2 years to get complete (suspension, brakes, cage, paint, hand formed flares, etc) but add up what I have listed for the turbo project and it will come close to ~6K (that includes the IC and exhaust plumbing, and radiator and all those things listed above that dont have a price next to them).

    Compare that to a S14...well try to anyways. Even swapping a M20 in would be more practical than the S14 unless you have to throw at your car. In the end its your decision and Im sure others that have done the S14 swap will chime in and tell you their thoughts on the swap.

    And thats my .02
    Last edited by turb02; 08-19-2008 at 11:26 AM.

    85 318i- Sold

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  13. #13
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    There is nothing like a s14 powered 02. It is incredible.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2many02s View Post
    There is nothing like a s14 powered 02. It is incredible.
    Andy, I don't disagree, it is just a serious engineering problem to do it right and the s14 mills are getting scarce and very expensive. Obviously, done right they are a juicy ride. Here's mine http://www.flickr.com/photos/29732060@N07/

  15. #15
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    M2002, that is beautiful!

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  16. #16
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    that is not a car... that is non vanilla sex on 4 kinky black rubber things. I think you could be arrested in 48 states just for having something like that showing in public.

  17. #17
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    m2 conversion

    wow thanks guys, that really is helpful. yes i will addmitt though, i do not know a whole lot about this yet, but im a young enthusiast and every day i become more obsessed with my 02. well back to what turb02 said, my engine is getting old, and yes i want more power. i know the s14 would be expensive, but it still seems to be a decent choice. .
    basically i want a engine with at least 200hp and pretty reliable..
    what do you guys have to say about that.

    thanks again htis is all helpful.
    Jeremy

  18. #18
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    Ask Junkyard Sal his impressions. He is a new M2 owner. I know most of the history of his car and it is a nasty bad little bugger... As for me, my next M car is being constructed in a place that does weird things to cars. Dr. Frankenstein with a plasma cutter. Oh, mine will be an m3202. This one won't be a sleeper it will be an in your face grocery getting 02 wagon! If no one buys my S 14, I will put it in the pick up muhahahahahaha!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJRoloff2002 View Post
    basically i want a engine with at least 200hp and pretty reliable..
    what do you guys have to say about that.

    Jeremy
    What is your budget? What is your mechanical skill level?

    a few swaps that have been done can achieve the 200 hp mark with the help of boost without the cost of the S14. The M42 and M20. Both motors can be found in E30 cars; M20 out of the 325 and the M42 out of the 90 and 91 318. From what Ive heard, these motors are reliable as long as the timing belt has been replaced in the M20. They can be had for cheap and are more abundant than the S14(can probably go to any import junk yard and find one or the other).

    Check out e30tech.com, its primarily an E30 site but you will gain a crapload of info on boosting your motor...if that is a route that you would consider.

    85 318i- Sold

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    2003 M3- Active Autowerke Stage 2-AA Headers-Meisterschaft-Vorsteiner-Brembo-BBS-CSL

  20. #20
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    S14 un real in the car if it is done right! Here is mine...

    http://www.m2bmw.com/scott.htm

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by weedawg View Post
    S14 un real in the car if it is done right! Here is mine...

    http://www.m2bmw.com/scott.htm
    Hey Scott, Love the M2. I have wanted to meet you for a while. I saw your car briefly at V@V and really liked it. I had planned on finding you but got tied up working the parking across the street for the E28's. We ran into each other briefly at an exit ramp in Winston Salem (I was in my E28 Euro M5. I think your son or daughter were with you). I saw the car again at the Fl. German Club picnic (I was there in the white E30 M3) but left when it started to pour. We should try to get these cars together one night. I am in Tampa. link to my s14 02 is posted above. Tim

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2many02s View Post
    that is not a car... that is non vanilla sex on 4 kinky black rubber things. I think you could be arrested in 48 states just for having something like that showing in public.
    Thanks Andy!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by turb02 View Post
    M2002, that is beautiful!
    Thanks much.
    Last edited by m2002; 08-22-2008 at 03:48 PM.

  24. #24
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    M2 video

    Video of mine. Don't try this at home. [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lahyMS3aG_E[/ame]
    Last edited by m2002; 08-22-2008 at 03:48 PM.

  25. #25
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    Tim -

    Where do you live in Tampa? I would love to see your 2002 some time.

    I am currently making a few changes to my motor. I shattered a wrist pin a while back and am sourcing a few more parts before rebuilding her to be better, stronger and faster.

    Do you turn your own wrenches and tune locally? I found a Mustang dyno in Brandon that is well run. The owner is getting more into German vehicles.

    Kurt

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