Have around 10k, thinking of a 540i?

[SkyylineGTR]

I was thinking of getting a 1999 540i for around 9.5k with 115k miles on it.

I was wondering how much is the insurance on the 540i and how much fixes would I have to do on avg monthly for it?

Also, I was also a considering an e36 m3. with about 150k on it...which scares me.
How much is the insurance on that? Would I be better off with this car because I will obtain more mpg with this than the 540i or will it will even out with the insurance cost since its 2 door? And how expensive is it to maintain it?

[03540sport]

I was thinking of getting a 1999 540i for around 9.5k with 115k miles on it.

I was wondering how much is the insurance on the 540i and how much fixes would I have to do on avg monthly for it?

Also, I was also a considering an e36 m3. with about 150k on it...which scares me.
How much is the insurance on that? Would I be better off with this car because I will obtain more mpg with this than the 540i or will it will even out with the insurance cost since its 2 door? And how expensive is it to maintain it?

Find out a little more about the sellers. If this is the original owner of the 540 AND the guy is over 45 AND there are no obvious mods to the car there is a good chance the 540 has never had the p*ss run out of it. An M3 being an M3, there is high likelihood that that thing has been around the block at high rate of speed a few times.

THat is not to say the M3 could not be in better mechanical conition than the 540. Just read some threads on what to watch out for when buying a used 540. Personally, I have owned an e36 328 (NOT an m3) and now an '03 540. THe e36 is nice and handled better on the edge, but the 540 is a more solid feeling, head turning car. At least in my opinion.

BOTTOM LINE: DO research on both the the cars AND the sellers.

[Qsilver7]

1. I was wondering how much is the insurance on the 540i and ... considering an e36 m3. with about 150k on it...How much is the insurance on that?

Unless someone on here is:

1. an insurance broker/agent
2. knows your age
3. knows your driving record
4. is familiar with rates for your geographic location

...there's no way to give you that type of information.

You need to call your insurance agent for this info.

[torqueoversteer]

I was thinking of getting a 1999 540i for around 9.5k with 115k miles on it.

I was wondering how much is the insurance on the 540i and how much fixes would I have to do on avg monthly for it?

Also, I was also a considering an e36 m3. with about 150k on it...which scares me.
How much is the insurance on that? Would I be better off with this car because I will obtain more mpg with this than the 540i or will it will even out with the insurance cost since its 2 door? And how expensive is it to maintain it?

Run away. Seriously. The longer I have the car and the more I find out about it, the more I regret buying it. I bought the car about a year ago with 27,000 miles. Now, I'm at 42,000, and were it not for factory and aftermarket warranty, I'd be out well over half of the 27k I paid for it. That's right, I've had almost $15,000 in warrantable repairs on the car in a year, and haven't even hit 45,000 miles yet. This is on a car that reportedly spent its first 27k on the way back and forth to Vegas at 75 mph on cruise control.

The radiators are garbage
The window regulators are designed to fail
The power steering system was an issue from '98, yet it was unchanged through '03
The interior electrics are crap
The LCD displays are junk
The VANOS seals are crap

That's just the basics. I'm in a loaner for a week here - luckily it's a 335i stick with premium and keyless, and pretty fun. Also luckily, I don't yet have a baby, as our car seat will not fit in the back of the 3.

Yes, there is a chance, however small, that you will buy the car and get through your ownership at only $2,000 a year (that sounds pretty funny, considering it costs less than 10% of that to maintain my '69 Camaro!). However, according to my SA, you're much more likely to hit the average in his system, which is just under $5,000 per year.

How much disposable income do you have? How much of it do you want to be devoted to keeping your sedan on the road?

[ajlounia]

torqueoversteer, maybe I'm wrong, but having 15k worth of repairs in a period of 1 year doesn't sound normal. I know these e39s have their known issues, but 15k seems WAY too steep, especially for only 1 year.

[quacktoduck]

Run away. Seriously. The longer I have the car and the more I find out about it, the more I regret buying it. I bought the car about a year ago with 27,000 miles. Now, I'm at 42,000, and were it not for factory and aftermarket warranty, I'd be out well over half of the 27k I paid for it. That's right, I've had almost $15,000 in warrantable repairs on the car in a year, and haven't even hit 45,000 miles yet. This is on a car that reportedly spent its first 27k on the way back and forth to Vegas at 75 mph on cruise control.

The radiators are garbage
The window regulators are designed to fail
The power steering system was an issue from '98, yet it was unchanged through '03
The interior electrics are crap
The LCD displays are junk
The VANOS seals are crap

That's just the basics. I'm in a loaner for a week here - luckily it's a 335i stick with premium and keyless, and pretty fun. Also luckily, I don't yet have a baby, as our car seat will not fit in the back of the 3.

Yes, there is a chance, however small, that you will buy the car and get through your ownership at only $2,000 a year (that sounds pretty funny, considering it costs less than 10% of that to maintain my '69 Camaro!). However, according to my SA, you're much more likely to hit the average in his system, which is just under $5,000 per year.

How much disposable income do you have? How much of it do you want to be devoted to keeping your sedan on the road?

youre an idiot giving shitty information.... ive had my car since 03 and 30k miles yes ive had all the same issues as most people with e39s but youre the idiot that takes it to the overpriced dealership to get repairs done that charges you more than an average indy and repairs that are more than DIY im 21 and i havent worked on a ton of cars but ive learned and done many of my repairs in the comfort of my own home and i havent had expenses more than 5k through the life of the car... yes i had my 50k waranty and used it when regulators went out or a alternator... but they are defects that can happen durring the life of a "new" car... get a better indy or dont quote your piss poor excuses of why someone shouldnt own a car by the mainenance and your lack of knowledge and working on your own car... ive been on here long enough to learn to do my own oil changes to taking out my radiator and doing my entire cooling system overhaul... but you on the other hand have had someone else do the work and are griping about shityou didnt even pay for... youre lucky bmw has such a great waranty system that theyll take care of you and give you that loner car... but yeah STFU really

[torqueoversteer]

youre an idiot giving shitty information.... ive had my car since 03 and 30k miles yes ive had all the same issues as most people with e39s but youre the idiot that takes it to the overpriced dealership to get repairs done that charges you more than an average indy and repairs that are more than DIY im 21 and i havent worked on a ton of cars but ive learned and done many of my repairs in the comfort of my own home and i havent had expenses more than 5k through the life of the car... yes i had my 50k waranty and used it when regulators went out or a alternator... but they are defects that can happen durring the life of a "new" car... get a better indy or dont quote your piss poor excuses of why someone shouldnt own a car by the mainenance and your lack of knowledge and working on your own car... ive been on here long enough to learn to do my own oil changes to taking out my radiator and doing my entire cooling system overhaul... but you on the other hand have had someone else do the work and are griping about shityou didnt even pay for... youre lucky bmw has such a great waranty system that theyll take care of you and give you that loner car... but yeah STFU really

Wow. Get a clue, fanboi.

First off, I am a technician. I build cars for a living. If I wanted to work on my own DD, on my own time, I wouldn't have bought a car with a warranty. I have three other vehicles, and the combined total in repairs over the combined 13 years of ownership is less than 35% of what this car would have cost me, were it not for warranty.

The car is a heap, and the situation with my car, while at the bad end of the reliability spectrum, is not out of line with the documented reliability of the model. Keep in mind, this is an enthusiast site, not a complaint line. Check Consumer Reports. Check Edmunds.com. Ask your Service Advisor after plying him with $100 in beer, like I did. There were 8 540s in the bays when I brought mine in, and the average 540 in his system had $5k in billing per year.

Who's the idiot here? At least mine has low mileage.

Also, I've found that in general, people who 'talk' to others as rudely and disrespectfully as you did here online do so to compensate for the fact that if they did it in real life, they would get their asses kicked on the regular. I assure you, were we face to face, you would not take the tone that you did here and walk away without some dirt on your back.

[Petes540i6]

Run away. Seriously. The longer I have the car and the more I find out about it, the more I regret buying it. I bought the car about a year ago with 27,000 miles. Now, I'm at 42,000, and were it not for factory and aftermarket warranty, I'd be out well over half of the 27k I paid for it. That's right, I've had almost $15,000 in warrantable repairs on the car in a year, and haven't even hit 45,000 miles yet. This is on a car that reportedly spent its first 27k on the way back and forth to Vegas at 75 mph on cruise control.

The radiators are garbage
The window regulators are designed to fail
The power steering system was an issue from '98, yet it was unchanged through '03
The interior electrics are crap
The LCD displays are junk
The VANOS seals are crap

That's just the basics. I'm in a loaner for a week here - luckily it's a 335i stick with premium and keyless, and pretty fun. Also luckily, I don't yet have a baby, as our car seat will not fit in the back of the 3.

Yes, there is a chance, however small, that you will buy the car and get through your ownership at only $2,000 a year (that sounds pretty funny, considering it costs less than 10% of that to maintain my '69 Camaro!). However, according to my SA, you're much more likely to hit the average in his system, which is just under $5,000 per year.

How much disposable income do you have? How much of it do you want to be devoted to keeping your sedan on the road?

This is clearly an exception to the rule.

If you are considering buying a 10 year old luxury car for one sixth of its original value, you should anticipate that you are going to have to address some issues, perhaps some headaches, and may have to put some effort into not paying too much for parts and service.

Expect to pay an average of $2,000 per year in maintenance if you are doing at least some of the diagnosis and work yourself. I bought a '98 with 98K two years ago for $10,300, and I thought it was a bargain. I've put something like $1,200 per year into it.

[CoolBimmer98]

Wow. Get a clue, fanboi.

First off, I am a technician. I build cars for a living. If I wanted to work on my own DD, on my own time, I wouldn't have bought a car with a warranty. I have three other vehicles, and the combined total in repairs over the combined 13 years of ownership is less than 35% of what this car would have cost me, were it not for warranty.

The car is a heap, and the situation with my car, while at the bad end of the reliability spectrum, is not out of line with the documented reliability of the model. Keep in mind, this is an enthusiast site, not a complaint line. Check Consumer Reports. Check Edmunds.com. Ask your Service Advisor after plying him with $100 in beer, like I did. There were 8 540s in the bays when I brought mine in, and the average 540 in his system had $5k in billing per year.

Who's the idiot here? At least mine has low mileage.

Also, I've found that in general, people who 'talk' to others as rudely and disrespectfully as you did here online do so to compensate for the fact that if they did it in real life, they would get their asses kicked on the regular. I assure you, were we face to face, you would not take the tone that you did here and walk away without some dirt on your back.

So your position on 540i is that of: "Stay away?"
I've actually seen a few deals in my area on 540iA, which sounds like an interesting addition to my collection.

However, I'm more partial to 528i since I'm used to it, and haven't spent too much $ on it other than stuff I can't fix myself.

[PorscheH6]

youre an idiot giving shitty information.... ... but yeah STFU really

Said like the average 21 year old. Well done.

[torqueoversteer]

So your position on 540i is that of: "Stay away?"
I've actually seen a few deals in my area on 540iA, which sounds like an interesting addition to my collection.

However, I'm more partial to 528i since I'm used to it, and haven't spent too much $ on it other than stuff I can't fix myself.

It all comes down to statistical probability. Are you likely to get one as crappy as mine? No, of course not. Are you more likely to get one that is nearly trouble-free? Probably. But the probably is too high, in my regard to justify getting the car again. And the performance doesn't justify the risk - nothing does with this car.

I'm in the market for a 512BB right now, and I plan to drive it. Would I complain about reliability or repair costs on that? No way - it's an exotic, and reliability is not why you buy one. The parts will be expensive, and the maintenance will be expensive. I've heard estimates from owners as high as 10k per year. But that's a 30 year old exotic, not an almost 5 year old luxo sedan.

[dbruce]

I post the following for all E39 buyers:

http://edgemotorworks.com/index.php?...d=27&Itemid=55

If you only have 10k to spend.....it can be spent better elsewhere. I have 85k on my E39 I6 now. Between my repairs and the previous owners......the 2k+ a year estimate, if you don't do the work yourself, is very realistic.

When the cars are in disrepair, the suspension etc doesn't not make for an enjoyable drive. Know what you're getting into before buying.

The longevity of the auto transmissions are suspect after 100k.......so keep that in mind.

[02E39]

I have had my 02 540i for exactly one year next week. I bought it with 94k for $12,500, it now has 109k. The 94k that she had were all highway miles put on by an old doctor from So. Cal. I know this because he is my father in law! This car was well maintained and never ran very hard , but like all cars with high miles things break and things wear out. In one year I have spent approx. $3,000.00. The first week I had the car I had to replace the battery and alternator, a few months later it was the brakes and rotors. A month after that she started pissing anti freeze all over my garage floor which encouraged me to replace the shitty water pump and gave me nightmares about the possibility of changing the plastic radiator or even worse the valley pan! Since the anti freeze leak has been fixed I have been doing ok, however I did have the oil changed recently and that cost me $170.00 which is $100.00 more than I pay to have the oil changed in my Durango at the stealership. And just this week the power seats started acting up (see other post). So bottom line in my opinion, if you buy one of these cars be prepared to spend some money on maintaining them, they are expensive. I wouldn't go so far as to call my baby a pile of shit however she has her issues. Some advice that was given to me by some of the other members here when I bought my BMW. "DIY will save you alot of money".

[herc97]

sometimes your experience with a car may not be up to expectations but some have good ones and bad ones, one bad car does not make every one of them a heap of movable metal you just got caught coming by the person who sold it to you. Not everybody here has all the issues others have with their vehicle. I have high mileage on my car and have not had all the issues people scream about but of course i did some preventive work on it so it does'nt go later on down the line. Fine car imo!!! if you are under 30 yrs of age get the M3 if it checks out but if you want refinement get the E39 and you are officially pimped!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pbonsalb]

Many of the 5-10 year old cars coming to market now will need a lot of maintenance by the next owner. I would want records showing what was done or I would expect to be doing it and be prepared. Full cooling system, full brakes, full suspension, and probably a bunch of seals and gaskets and tune up and minor maintenance parts.

These were nice cars when new -- $40k to $60k cars. To put $5k to $10k into one after it passes 100k or as it ages from 5 to 10 years old (or 10 to 15 years old) seems quite reasonable to me when you are getting an otherwise very presentable car for probably $10k to $20k -- 1/4 to 1/3 its new cost. For an good DIYer, the cost would be less -- I'd figure on half that $5k to $10k. You should get another 100k and 5 -10 years out of it.

I think the 2003 model with 27k and $15k in repairs is an anomaly. There are always outliers, unfortunately, and one would not want to get stuck with an example.

An E36M3 is probably cheaper to keep stock than an E39 540i, but the E39 540i is a much nicer and more substantial car. If you want a go kart, though, a modifed E36 M3 is great -- mine has about 400 hp and coilovers and is a lot of fun. A raw car in comparison to the E39.

[SkyylineGTR]

I actually do plan on doing a lot of DIY, so I hope that'll keep the maintenance fee down a little. I'm 18, learning about cars as I go and this will be my 2nd car after about a 1.5 years of experience. I dont mind fixing the car when it needs to be fixed, just so as long its not MAJOR issues worth tons of money.

[Junaid]

Well if you get a V8 repairs will cost but like our 528i shit broke the first week but in the last year the only thing it went in for was oil changes and regular check ups just make u have a reputable mechanic look at it and your good.

[B3DSage]

Are you more likely to get one that is nearly trouble-free? Probably. But the probably is too high, in my regard to justify getting the car again.

Can you point me toward the study you surely have published in order to be able to make such claims? I'd very much like to evaluate it to see if the results are, in fact, statistically significant.


Or is this statement of probability just an opinion formed on an anecdotal first-hand experience?


Please take a "Statistics for Dummy's" class before making claims such as this again.

[dbruce]

Can you point me toward the study you surely have published in order to be able to make such claims? I'd very much like to evaluate it to see if the results are, in fact, statistically significant.


Or is this statement of probability just an opinion formed on an anecdotal first-hand experience?


Please take a "Statistics for Dummy's" class before making claims such as this again.

I don't know about you, but having a few beers with an SA at a BMW dealership kinda closes my doubts on this (and my personal experience).

[adam1979]

I just picked up a 98 540 6-speed with about 125k miles on it for $9.5k. You can protect yourself to a certain extent by having a PPI done, but that can't catch everything. Only a few miles from the previous owner's driveway I lost a rear window regulator and now an o2 sensor is throwing an error code, keeping me from getting an inspection sticker. This is despite doing a PPI at a BMW shop with an excellent reputation.

Having said that, these issues don't need to be a huge expense. There is a guy on these forums (Lance M) that makes a repair kit for one of the common failure points on the rear window regulators. I can get a pair of o2 sensors online for about $120, and from what I can tell, just about anyone should be able to install them. I dunno what a dealership would charge for labor on these tasks, but the regulator is a $280 part. I think o2 sensors cost about twice as much from a dealer as well. The point is, if this repair kit succeeds and the new o2 sensors kill my SES light, I will probably save several hundred dollars (knock on wood).

I am pretty sure tourqueoversteer's point isnt that all 540s will cost you over 10 grand in repairs in less than a year, but that there is considerable risk with these cars and you have to be very careful when buying one. You also have to know when to cut your losses if the repairs start adding up. Somehow I doubt he would still own that car if it wasn't for the warranty.

Overall, if $10k is most of the money you have in your savings and not just your car budget, a 540 is probably a bad idea.

[Nero530i]

As you can see, you will get a wide variety of responses regarding the 540i's reliability. A more reliable source (although debatable) would be consumer reports where you can review the responses of many owners as opposed to a few on a forum. As noted above, the history of the car will also net a considerable amount of information which will be more informative than the opinions of those on the internet. For example, will the owner provide the repair records which in and of itself is an indication of closer attention to the maintenance of the vehicle. Did the owner follow BMW's "maintenance" (cough) marketing program or did the owner maintain the vehicle more frequently (as it should have been).

Unforunately, if you are not a DIY guy or if money is an issue then an older high mileage BMW is not the best choice for you.

[torqueoversteer]

I just picked up a 98 540 6-speed with about 125k miles on it for $9.5k. You can protect yourself to a certain extent by having a PPI done, but that can't catch everything. Only a few miles from the previous owner's driveway I lost a rear window regulator and now an o2 sensor is throwing an error code, keeping me from getting an inspection sticker. This is despite doing a PPI at a BMW shop with an excellent reputation.

Having said that, these issues don't need to be a huge expense. There is a guy on these forums (Lance M) that makes a repair kit for one of the common failure points on the rear window regulators. I can get a pair of o2 sensors online for about $120, and from what I can tell, just about anyone should be able to install them. I dunno what a dealership would charge for labor on these tasks, but the regulator is a $280 part. I think o2 sensors cost about twice as much from a dealer as well. The point is, if this repair kit succeeds and the new o2 sensors kill my SES light, I will probably save several hundred dollars (knock on wood).

I am pretty sure tourqueoversteer's point isnt that all 540s will cost you over 10 grand in repairs in less than a year, but that there is considerable risk with these cars and you have to be very careful when buying one. You also have to know when to cut your losses if the repairs start adding up. Somehow I doubt he would still own that car if it wasn't for the warranty.

Overall, if $10k is most of the money you have in your savings and not just your car budget, a 540 is probably a bad idea.

Holy Crap, Adam1979, this reads as if you actually read my posts!

That's exactly what I'm saying. If you have the reserves to roll with the punches and are willing to take the risk for what really is a fantastic car to drive - go for it. If you're like most people, and don't have car-budget coming out of your ears, maybe pick a car with a bit better track record.

Can you point me toward the study you surely have published in order to be able to make such claims? I'd very much like to evaluate it to see if the results are, in fact, statistically significant.


Or is this statement of probability just an opinion formed on an anecdotal first-hand experience?


Please take a "Statistics for Dummy's" class before making claims such as this again.

Can you read, jackass?

Are you more likely to get one that is nearly trouble-free? Probably. But the probably is too high, in my regard to justify getting the car again.

Where is the probability statement? Where is the numeric, statistical probability with the standard deviation and margin for error? In what book on the rules of logical argument is a personal, empirical experience combined with data mined from a reliable source, 'anecdotal'? Was that on you're vocabulary word of the day calendar? You don't like my opinion, just say so. Don't try to look smart, you're clearly not.

I used to tutor helpless stats students, you idiot.

[CoolBimmer98]

Overall, if $10k is most of the money you have in your savings and not just your car budget, a 540 is probably a bad idea.

Makes sense. Bravo!

[SkyylineGTR]

Thanks for all the responses.

I'm not going to be driving it everyday. Around 3-4 times a week. And it wont be more than 15 miles in a day.

Are you guys just having the issues from it being your daily car? This will be my main car, just I don't drive everyday.

10k is my budget for buying the car, I should have money to replace minor problems.

[CABimmer]

Run away. Seriously. The longer I have the car and the more I find out about it, the more I regret buying it. I bought the car about a year ago with 27,000 miles. Now, I'm at 42,000, and were it not for factory and aftermarket warranty, I'd be out well over half of the 27k I paid for it. That's right, I've had almost $15,000 in warrantable repairs on the car in a year, and haven't even hit 45,000 miles yet. This is on a car that reportedly spent its first 27k on the way back and forth to Vegas at 75 mph on cruise control.

The radiators are garbage
The window regulators are designed to fail
The power steering system was an issue from '98, yet it was unchanged through '03
The interior electrics are crap
The LCD displays are junk
The VANOS seals are crap

That's just the basics. I'm in a loaner for a week here - luckily it's a 335i stick with premium and keyless, and pretty fun. Also luckily, I don't yet have a baby, as our car seat will not fit in the back of the 3.

Yes, there is a chance, however small, that you will buy the car and get through your ownership at only $2,000 a year (that sounds pretty funny, considering it costs less than 10% of that to maintain my '69 Camaro!). However, according to my SA, you're much more likely to hit the average in his system, which is just under $5,000 per year.

How much disposable income do you have? How much of it do you want to be devoted to keeping your sedan on the road?

This is the second time you have been preaching that the sky is falling in the last few weeks. Sell it and buy one that isnt a lemon.

All BMWs and performance cars need Maintenance. Take a Porsche that was $60k when new and see what it takes to maintain it 10 years later.

My 99 M3 with 105k on the clock before a really started to track it needed:

Tranny rebuild 50k miles
Shocks and struts 60k miles
2 radiators
2 waterpumps (now have Stewart)
PS lines
Multiple electronic components
Head gasket
Control arm bushings (CABs)
Rear CABs
Front control arms
Tie rods
wheel bearings-Front
Many sets of brakes and rotors
Tons of other stuff I dont even want to think about

Is it a lemon or a problem car, HELL NO. Its a rocket and takes some money to keep it in top shape. Go buy a honda or a lexus if you want a problem free cruiser.

I just picked up a 00 540 for 10k and drove it 2000 miles home with no issues. I took it on myself to replace about $2k in parts. The dealer price was over $7,000. Car is rock solid now and I expect it to run for many years and will require more money to keep it in top shape. Thats the price we all pay to smile everytime we get in our cars.