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Thread: New Install thread - S50B32 install into a 1995 M3

  1. #1
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    New Install thread - S50B32 install into a 1995 M3

    Hi All -

    After many years of thinking about it I will finally be installing a full Motorsport engine into my 1995 M3! I started the process back in late March and it looks like I should finally have it going by the end of next week.

    I'd like to thank everyone on this forum who have been very helpful with the preparation for the install - Kim, James, Dreamer99, Ed, etc.... I'd still have a lot of un-answered questions if it weren't for you guys.

    I sourced my engine from Alex at ABL Originals. My engine came out of an '99 M coupe over in the UK. Waiting for it to cross the Atlantic was about as much fun as watching paint dry, but once it was here Alex turned it around and got it out quickly as promised!

    The installation is being done by Mario at Vintage Sports & Restoration. The engine showed up there about a week ago and it was pretty cool seeing the header pipes in person...

    Luckily the original engine from my car had already been sold. Before taking it out I did a final dyno run with it so I could document the change after installing the Euro. The motor was a standard US 3.0l with shricks, Euro HFM, and JC intake and exhaust. It has 79k miles on it (120+ track days). The dyno numbers were still pretty strong 241 HP, and 224 Tq. Hopefully I'll pick up another 30 HP with the Euro....we'll see!

    3.0ldyno.JPG

    Just for fun...I took some pics of the Euro 3.2l cat next to the U.S. 3.0l cat. The Euro cat makes the U.S. one look pretty small! It is a little heavier though...the U.S. cat is 37 lbs, and the Euro cat is 46 lbs.

    eurocat1.jpg

    eurocat2.jpg

    eurocat3.jpg

    I decided to go the the Supersprint Euro race exhaust...the 60mm pipes are a perfect match for the pipes coming off the back of the cat. It weights exactly 25 lbs so at least the car won't be gaining any weight in that area (compared to my current UUC TSE).

    sseuro.jpg



    Since my car is an M3, and the engine/harness is from an MZ3, I was hoping to find someone to swap harnesses with. Luckily Ed in MD was doing an install into his MZ3 coupe and we were able to connect and swap harness before the install. Thanks Ed!

    The water pump on my S50 was making bearing noise so we decided to put a new one in before the motor went into the car. Of course there were none in the USA...so we ordered one up and we hope to have it by Monday.

    I'll post again near the end of next week....hopefully with good news.

    John
    Last edited by avusm3; 05-20-2016 at 08:37 PM.

  2. #2
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    nice work there
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  3. #3
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    There are a lot of dyno graphs from the UK showing the S50B32 engine only putting down 260rwhp. Your stock dyno looks pretty good, how much are you spending for what could be only 20whp?

  4. #4
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    Good question.

    I'm really looking for more than just power (and hopefully its more like 30 HP, than 20).

    I guess the list of things would be: 7500 rpms, head reliability, cool factor, etc..

    I have over 120 track days on my old engine. It's been through 2 head gaskets in the last three years. The S50B30US motors are super street motors, and they can make good power for a time, but when pushed hard on the track they tend to go through head gaskets pretty quick. After the first one goes the subsequent ones don't seem to last as long as the first. The other weak area on the S50B30US is the valve train which is pretty durable in stock/street form, but which tends to use up valves when used with Shricks on the track.

    The bottom line for me is that the solid lifter/double valve spring setup on the Euro should be much better for my track usage than the US motor. I've also heard that the head gasket on the Euro is more robust but I guess time will tell on that one.

    My new motor is a 3.2l (which I've wanted for a while), has less miles, and hopefully little or no track miles which is a plus.

    By this time next year (20 track days from now) I should be able to say if it was worth it.
    Last edited by avusm3; 06-17-2008 at 12:08 AM.

  5. #5
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    Congrats! I'm hoping to go to the track for the first time since this swap next week (fingers crossed). I'm giddy with excitement.
    '94 325is #94 IP/GTS3 Mauritius Blue Metallic
    "And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." - Ayrton Senna

  6. #6
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    Nice pics/writeup avus. Welcome to the Euro club, and more specifically, the E36&E53 club

    The Supersprint is a great piece. I had the same one before I scored a rare factory motorsport system, which is even a step-up in size from the euro stuff!



    You're really gonna like the Euro alot better. I promise it's just what you were looking for
    Last edited by jvit27; 06-17-2008 at 02:34 AM.
    '04 Jet Black + Cinnamon ///M3 coupe (SMG)
    V-CSL, BBS CH, hlins R&T, Brembo GT, Supersprint, Z4M seats, Avant-2

    '99 Estoril Blue + Dove Grey ///
    M3 coupe
    Technique Tuning Stage 1 Turbo, TC Kline DA,
    Rallyroad Brembo BBK, Recaro SRD, ZF 6spd, BMW Traffic Pro 4771, ZKW FX-R

    Gone but not forgotten:

    '99 M3 Estoril Blue/Dove Grey (bought new), '95 M3 Arctic Silver/Black (3.5 HFM setup), '97 318ti Arctic Silver/Red Millpoint (M-Tech Dinan), '02 325XiT Black/Black/5MT (wintermobile), '98.5
    "M3 RS" Cosmos Black/M-cloth (GrpN S50b32), '02 M3 Alpine White/Impulse/SMG (sunroof delete), '04 X5 4.8iS Estoril Blue/M-texture, '02 M3 Alpine White/Black/6MT (CSL wh0re), '97 M3 Techno Violet/Modena (Eurosport Twinscrew), '04 M3 Alpine White/Black/SMG (garage queen)




  7. #7
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    is 260rwhp shit for an s50b32. mines on dyno dynamics.
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  8. #8
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    Did i misread that the shown dyno was of the US engine?

    John, very good looking swap. I'm sure you will enjoy the engine allot. What plans do you have for it? Carbon Airbox?

    Anyway, good luck and post some pics of the finished product

    Cheers!

    "When I raced a car last it was at a time when sex was safe and racing was dangerous. Now, it's the other way round." -Hans Stuck

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by avusm3 View Post
    Good question.

    I'm really looking for more than just power (and hopefully its more like 30 HP, than 20).

    I guess the list of things would be: 7500 rpms, head reliability, cool factor, etc..

    I have over 120 track days on my old engine. It's been through 2 head gaskets in the last three years. The S50B30US motors are super street motors, and they can make good power for a time, but when pushed hard on the track they tend to go through head gaskets pretty quick. After the first one goes the subsequent ones don't seem to last as long as the first. The other weak area on the S50B30US is the valve train which is pretty durable in stock/street form, but which tends to use up valves when used with Shricks on the track.

    The bottom line for me is that the solid lifter/double valve spring setup on the Euro should be much better for my track usage than the US motor. I've also heard that the head gasket on the Euro is more robust but I guess time will tell on that one.

    My new motor is a 3.2l (which I've wanted for a while), has less miles, and hopefully little or no track miles which is a plus.

    By this time next year (20 track days from now) I should be able to say if it was worth it.

    I did the engine swap with my M3 and I am really happy with my S50B32 engine, especially on track days. I keep up with the E46 M3 all day long. Those extra rpm's are awesome. Get the larger euro or ZM3 radiator. The engine runs quite a bit hotter.

    Are you changing your transmission or diff gears?

  10. #10
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    Thanks for the good vibes......it's good to know I'm heading in the right direction!

    Those are some serious pipes on that Motorsport exhaust!!

    I thought the SS race was pretty big until I saw that. Do you have a special Motorsport center section to go with it? That is a seriously rare setup.

    I can't wait to get mine running!



    Quote Originally Posted by Vitolo View Post
    Nice pics/writeup avus. Welcome to the Euro club, and more specifically, the E36&E53 club

    The Supersprint is a great piece. I had the same one before I scored a rare factory motorsport system, which is even a step-up in size from the euro stuff!



    You're really gonna like the Euro alot better. I promise it's just what you were looking for

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by 94is View Post
    Congrats! I'm hoping to go to the track for the first time since this swap next week (fingers crossed). I'm giddy with excitement.
    I bet! Which track are you heading to?


    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinScotty View Post
    Did i misread that the shown dyno was of the US engine?

    John, very good looking swap. I'm sure you will enjoy the engine allot. What plans do you have for it? Carbon Airbox?

    Anyway, good luck and post some pics of the finished product

    Cheers!
    The dyno above is for my old U.S. 3.0l. I'll be going back to the same dyno to benchmark the new Euro once it's in. Do you know of any place that still sells a carbon airbox for the S50B32? I've looked around but haven't seen anything....


    Quote Originally Posted by GazM3 View Post
    is 260rwhp shit for an s50b32. mines on dyno dynamics.
    I'm not sure how dyno dynamics compares to dynojet or dynopack. Dynojet is probably the most common here in the U.S., and it seems reasonable to expect high 260s or low 270s for a relatively stock S50B32 on a dynojet...


    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamer99 View Post
    I did the engine swap with my M3 and I am really happy with my S50B32 engine, especially on track days. I keep up with the E46 M3 all day long. Those extra rpm's are awesome. Get the larger euro or ZM3 radiator. The engine runs quite a bit hotter.

    Are you changing your transmission or diff gears?
    I'm going with a PWR rad and a larger than stock oil cooler so hopefully that will help with the temps. NHIS (Loudon) is the track I spend the most time at and it's pretty hard on the cooling system so it will be interesting to see where the temps come in.

    I'm planning on going with a 3.64 or a 3.73 but that will probably be a few months down the road after I've had a chance to recover from the install bills for the swap...

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by avusm3 View Post
    I bet! Which track are you heading to?
    Reno/Fernley. I've never been there before.
    '94 325is #94 IP/GTS3 Mauritius Blue Metallic
    "And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." - Ayrton Senna

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by avusm3 View Post
    The dyno above is for my old U.S. 3.0l. I'll be going back to the same dyno to benchmark the new Euro once it's in. Do you know of any place that still sells a carbon airbox for the S50B32? I've looked around but haven't seen anything....
    Erm, i don't know if there are any sellers in the US, but there is CA Automotive in the UK (Prices are nuts, but quality is very good), E36shop.de which is good quality with all holes and hose attachments made and then there is a seller in HK on eBay that sells them as well. If i remember right, Alan is actually using that particular one and is very happy with it. Price is the best out of the three (I believe 500 bucks? Not 100% sure), but there is some cutting and fabing to do, but ask Alan about more specifics

    Cheers!
    Last edited by PenguinScotty; 06-18-2008 at 03:21 AM.

    "When I raced a car last it was at a time when sex was safe and racing was dangerous. Now, it's the other way round." -Hans Stuck

  14. #14
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    IIRC the general consensus on the HK box is it sucks.
    It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.

    Turning Benjamins into noise since 1997

    I read a list of the 100 things you MUST do before you die. Funny, "Yelling 'HELP'" didn't make the list!

  15. #15
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    carbon air boxes are beneficial if they are well-made and are in very good quality – especially trumpets. the problem may be also leak. the engine would receive more air than a maf had measured and the engine would run lean. you must take care of tightness. some aftermarket cabon air boxes don’t have enough number of openings in underside of the air box (for an idle control valve, a oil separator and a oil drain to a oil sump). Some of them also don’t have plug for an intake air temperature sensor. If yours would not have it, you could install this one from your stock intake manifold.

  16. #16
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    gobuffs, i heard the same, but Alan said it's actually quite alright, that's why i mentioned it. BUT, i don't have personal experience with any of them.

    The E36shop one seems to have a good value-for-money look. All attachment points appear to be there and the trumpets look very well made.

    Personally, i would go with the E36shop one. Maybe i can dig up some reviews on all of them.

    Cheers!

    "When I raced a car last it was at a time when sex was safe and racing was dangerous. Now, it's the other way round." -Hans Stuck

  17. #17
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    Recall this thread (start with post #37) http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...=carbon&page=2
    It's not speed that kills, it's the speed difference that does. Obviously you aren't going fast enough.

    Turning Benjamins into noise since 1997

    I read a list of the 100 things you MUST do before you die. Funny, "Yelling 'HELP'" didn't make the list!

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by gobuffs View Post
    Recall this thread (start with post #37) http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...=carbon&page=2
    Ah yes, that's the thread. Again goes to show that you have to pay to play.

    I'm still curious to what Alan has to say about the box, aside from having to fab allot of stuff (Think he mentioned everything on the first page of that thread).

    Now, i'll stop my OT blabbering and leave other people to comment on Avus' engine swap

    "When I raced a car last it was at a time when sex was safe and racing was dangerous. Now, it's the other way round." -Hans Stuck

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    i hope to do this one day!!

  20. #20
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    Penguin - thanks for the info.

    I can't believe the price on the CA-Auto box....That's more than I got for my whole U.S. motor!

    The E36Shop piece looks nice, and is semi-reasonably priced.




    Quote Originally Posted by PenguinScotty View Post
    Erm, i don't know if there are any sellers in the US, but there is CA Automotive in the UK (Prices are nuts, but quality is very good), E36shop.de which is good quality with all holes and hose attachments made and then there is a seller in HK on eBay that sells them as well. If i remember right, Alan is actually using that particular one and is very happy with it. Price is the best out of the three (I believe 500 bucks? Not 100% sure), but there is some cutting and fabing to do, but ask Alan about more specifics

    Cheers!

  21. #21
    MauiM3Mania's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by avusm3 View Post
    ...That's more than I got for my whole U.S. motor!
    Brief sidebar: What did you get for your S52? My market is limited, but am unsure what to ask for a 55k mile M3 engine.

    Project | 88M3 AW 43k miles OEM Shift Knob
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  22. #22
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    I got 3k for my S50. Had 155k on it, but had lots of maintenance done (new valves, upgraded retainers, oil pan baffle, injectors, hfm, etc).
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  23. #23
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    Maui - I got $3.8k for mine. It had 78k miles on it with the dyno numbers above. I may have been able to get more but I decided not to advertise and I went with a deal my mechanic got for me so I didn't have to deal with issues like shipping, etc. The buyer is getting a solid, strong 3.0l but it does have a lot of track days on it.

  24. #24
    MauiM3Mania's Avatar
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    Hmmmmm. Had an interested party who balked at $4k. So, I dropped it to $3k "if you take it now" and he still wasn't happy.

    I'll drop it into a E30 or something before I give it away.

    Project | 88M3 AW 43k miles OEM Shift Knob
    Auto-X | 99M3 Cosmos 60k S50B32 284 euro 6Spd 3.91
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  25. #25
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    $3.5k - $4.0k seems like a very fair price for a low mileage 3.2l like yours.

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