Help! Need your opinions for M3 engine mods

[FLoSSeN20]

I have a 95 M3... no mods to the engine at all.. just the plain old 3.0 US M3 motor. I was thinking of swapping a 3.2 euro M3 motor.. 321hp. From your own experiences, would it be better to build my engine or swap the euro motor and build that one. Which one has more potential? I'm thinking of dragging it for 1/4 mile at the track once in awhile and I also want it to hang with or beat the E46 M3s. Any opinions or input would be appreciated. Thanks!! My spending limit would be around $10K and I don't want to go forced induction unless I really have to.

[toddman35]

For 10k I would send your stock car to AA for their stage I turbo kit. You will be able to beat an e46 M3 and be able to upgrade to more power later on. FI is the way to go as far as I'm concerned.

[///M LIFE©]

Yea I would go with a turbo as well. Not sure how much the euro engine etc will cost, but I believe it will be alot more then getting a turbo installed.

[mens rea]

Why would you not want to go FI?


Nothing looks cooler than a Bimmer with a fat ass FMIC up front

[FLoSSeN20]

Thanks for all your inputs guys. So far I guess the consensus is going Forced Induction. I wouldn't mind going FI, but if I can go naturally aspirated, I'd rather go for it. I'll wait for more opinions/inputs. Thanks!

[polifimos]

For approximately $8,000 you can acquire a 321hp Euro E36 M3 3.2L Engine Package from http://www.bimmerworld.com/.

The only issue here is that the engine will be a used one with as many as 50K miles, although they claim that they have had engines with as few as 4K miles.

BTW, these engines are back-ordered.

Not an easy choice to make...

[alan2990]

what about cams/3.5hfm/complete exhaust/and some custom tuning? About 300hp. Add a 3.38 lsd and it will be even quicker

Or use the extra dough and get a 6-speed with 3.64/3.91 ratio

E46 M3 has 333hp 6-speed/3.64ratio... You will be close to it in speed with the slightly lower weight

[jedinite]

Originally posted by FLoSSeN20
I have a 95 M3... no mods to the engine at all.. just the plain old 3.0 US M3 motor. I was thinking of swapping a 3.2 euro M3 motor.. 321hp. From your own experiences, would it be better to build my engine or swap the euro motor and build that one. Which one has more potential? I'm thinking of dragging it for 1/4 mile at the track once in awhile and I also want it to hang with or beat the E46 M3s. Any opinions or input would be appreciated. Thanks!! My spending limit would be around $10K and I don't want to go forced induction unless I really have to.

First off, a Euro engine is illegal for street use in the USA. I'd imagine it would be especially problematic in the Republik of California.

I'm like you, I'm not a big fan of forced induction on our M3s. Current kits are not very reliable for the track, for one.

I'd do the following if I were in your place:

Option One: <A HREF="http://www.sharked.com">Euro HFM intake</A> with 24lb injectors, Schrick cams, conforti software, <A HREF="http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/sue462/exhaust_index.htm">free flowing exhaust</A>, <A HREF="http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/flywheel/LFWLE36SH.htm">lightweight flywheel</A>, <A HREF="http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/udp/">underdrive pulleys</A>. I'd probably look at upgrading your brakes (<A HREF="http://www.nexternal.com/bimmerworl/?Target=products.asp&RowID=58">better pads</A> and fluid, stick with stock rotors), and upgrading your suspension a little if you are completely stock - a good set of <A HREF="http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/sway_barbarian/index.htm">sway bars</A> would be a good place to start, maybe a set of <A HREF="http://www.nexternal.com/bimmerworl/?Target=products.asp&RowID=115">shocks</A> and <A HREF="http://www.nexternal.com/bimmerworl/?Target=products.asp&RowID=117">springs</A>. And you could dial in some other niceities like <A HREF="http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/tranny_mount/index.htm">transmission mounts</A>, <A HREF="http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_product/bmw_shifters/shifter_nav.htm">short shifter</A>, etc.

Option Two: bigger bucks
Get a US 3.2L engine. Sell your 3.0 engine to recoupe some costs. Do the <A HREF="http://www.sharked.com/cams.html">Eurosport OBDII cam kit</A>. Or do an OBDI conversion on the 3.2L, but I don't think that's legal for CA. Then go through the rest of the list (brakes / suspension / etc) as above.

Disclaimer: I'm not sure if any of this engine work is CARB legal. If that's a concern, you might not be able to go any higher than a free flowing exhauast with Euro HFM intake setup and software. But that's a pretty decent gain on our cars, and would let you spend more on suspension / braking / etc.

[Max M3]

If it were me, I'd spend the $2400 from Turner for their cam/HFM/Intake upgrade kit.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...E36M3HFMCAMKIT

Then since you have a ton of money left, change the pistons to higher compression forged Weisco's along with new rods. That's about another $1100 plus $2000 for install from a GOOD shop, along with incidentals... Change the exhaust and consider headers. You've spent under $6000 and you have a KILLER motor!

[FLoSSeN20]

I appreciate all the inputs guys. I have thought about the intake/HFM/injector/CAM kit from turner and Bimmerworld NUMEROUS times, but I've gone to a couple of shops in Southern California and they said it's not worth the bang for the buck, and they suggested S/C kits like the Dinan, Vortech, RMS, etc. My mind is spinning as of now. haha Anyhow, as far as legality issues for SMOG here in Cali, I know how stringent they are, but that's the least of my concern right now. I'm sure there are ways around it if you guys know what I mean. Please keep the inputs coming. Hopefully I can decide sooner or later. Stock is beginning to be slow for me. Need more POWER!!!!

[UNVMYM3]

I've heard of a lot of horror stories with FI. Not just BMW's, but all cars. Takes a lot of tuning to get right.

I'm in the process of having my 3.0l motor redone. All the parts are on order and should be here in 2-3 weeks. Going with the crank from a 3.2, Higher Compression Wiseco Pistons like Max mentioned. 10.8-10.9:1. Head work, CA Intake w/ custom chip to make it all work. I'm going to be leaving it at that for now, since it is getting steep price wise. Next year will do cams, full exhaust and Euro HFM.

With all mods listed above, you'll easily be in the ball park of a Euro Motor, hp wise. I'm thinking low 13's to potential high 12's with good traction and weather.

HTH

[frayed]

A 3.2L Euro motor is a tough road. Retrofitting that motor with in an OBD I car is a biatch. Ask Alan Taur about it, or ask Bimmerworld. An easier approach is a euro 3.0L motor, but at that power rating and relative difficulty of adding more power, I'd stay with a US motor.

If you put in a US 3.2L motor, there's no need to go with an OBD II cam kit, as you would almost necessarily be maintaining your OBD I electronics. From there, getting the proper software to run whatever configuration of bolt ons you want is pretty easy. With cams, headers, track pipe, big hfm, CAI, UDPs, plus your OBD I intake manifold and electronics and the right software from Stickley, you should be at the 270 rwhp mark.

If you go FI, I think the only sound approach is to use a kit that runs a proper heat exchanger (intercooler). For low bucks, AA offers a blower kit that will get you near the 300 rwhp mark, for high bucks, the sky is the limit.

For half of your budget, plus intended use and ease of implementation and reversal if you sell the car, it seems that AA's blower kit is an easy choice. Check the FI forum. For E36 M3's, I've been anti-FI for years, but am slowly turning as better kits are being built.

[frKENm3]

If you'd like... Call M-motorsport located in san bruno/nor cal The owner(billy) has this KILLER N/A 95M3 that can kill a DINAN M5 and the E46M3s....i don't remember what he did but its completely NA and its embarrasing alot of really modded high end newer sports cars. I think he sold the car, but I'm pretty sure he still knows what he did to his car. did i mention it eats porche too?
heres a #(650) 508-1888

[FLoSSeN20]

Would it be realistically possible to build my US 3.0 M3 motor and beat Force Inducted E36 M3's? Remember the key word is REALISTICALLY, or would it just be cheaper to supercharge or turbo my motor? I don't want to spend above $10 grand. Let me know your opinions. Thanks!

[NLR]

Originally posted by FLoSSeN20
Would it be realistically possible to build my US 3.0 M3 motor and beat Force Inducted E36 M3's? Remember the key word is REALISTICALLY, or would it just be cheaper to supercharge or turbo my motor? I don't want to spend above $10 grand. Let me know your opinions. Thanks!

A naturally aspirated 3.0 OBD I M3 engine can be made to be very fast and have alot of power with things such as cams, euro intake, HFM, headers and exhaust, but it will never be as powerful as a forced induction, namely turbo M3.

Since you are willing to spend around 10 grand, maybe you should just take your car to AA and have them work their turbo magic for you. It might cost slightly more than 10 grand, maybe 10,500 or somewhere around there, but in the end you'll have a car that will beat just about anything out on the road and be able to run 11's in the 1/4 mile.