Has anyone seen a 6 speed conversion???

[John Q Public]

...has anyone seen a 540's 6 speed swapped into a 525???

I know I'm looking at a few minor headaches with a planned swap of automatic to manual for my 525...I'm just wondering if it'd be worth it to just go a step up to another gear for the overdrive...the ratios of 1-5 on the 540's are almost identical to the M50's 5 speed...and the 6 speed would probably better handle the power I'm planing to build into my M50...

...any thoughts/warnings/etc???

[zubbie]

Ah, I don't think the bell housings are compatible. Therefore you are looking at a custom adapter plate, driveshaft.....etc.

Never heard of it but you never know.

[Binjammin]

You should be able to use the 6 speed out of the SMG e46 m3. I have a friend with an e36 m3 that picked one up and (according to him) had everything swapped over. I don't know what any of that means, but according to him he's got a 6 speed that was formerly an smg unit, waiting for the right time to put it in his car.

[John Q Public]

You should be able to use the 6 speed out of the SMG e46 m3. I have a friend with an e36 m3 that picked one up and (according to him) had everything swapped over. I don't know what any of that means, but according to him he's got a 6 speed that was formerly an smg unit, waiting for the right time to put it in his car.


To me...SMeG is just a slush-box with an attitude...how about a 6 Speed out of an E39 maybe???...certainly a M52 and M50 take the same bell housings???

[jhower08]

To me...SMeG is just a slush-box with an attitude...how about a 6 Speed out of an E39 maybe???...certainly a M52 and M50 take the same bell housings???

I dont think any of the m52 e39s got six speeds. :dunno

[zubbie]

To me...SMeG is just a slush-box with an attitude...how about a 6 Speed out of an E39 maybe???...certainly a M52 and M50 take the same bell housings???

I'm no E39 expert but I thought M52's (528i's) were mated to 5-speed trannys. I'd have to look further into realoem to be sure.

[Johnny 5]

Zionsville Autosport sells a conversion. It uses the new car 6 cylinder 6 speed. Hooks right up.

[kalevera]

...has anyone seen a 540's 6 speed swapped into a 525???

...any thoughts/warnings/etc???

Wrong bellhousing, and frankly, the ZF E36 M3 5 speed that most people use is a much better transmission in terms of handling bigger power than the ZF 6 speed used in the E36 Evo/E46 M3/E34 540 & M5/E39 540 & M5 -- they all use essentially the same trans with different bellhousings and minor internal differences. The ZF 5 speed has actual aftermarket support, the 6 speed is a "replace it when it breaks" transmission.

[John Q Public]

I'm no E39 expert but I thought M52's (528i's) were mated to 5-speed trannys. I'd have to look further into realoem to be sure.


OK...I found a 5 Speed to 6 Speed conversion kit for E36 using a GS6-37BZ which is used in an E60 525...so I'm guessing it IS possible...same place sells E36 Auto to 5 Speed conversion kits...

[93FIM5]

Hum whats this going to cost to put a 6 speed on your 525i vs going with a stronger e36 M3 tranny that is known to take the power output with a correct differential? Dont get me wrong a 6 speed is great for gear selection but depending on what your doing in terms of power you might now need it.

[clevertd]

I'm no E39 expert but I thought M52's (528i's) were mated to 5-speed trannys. I'd have to look further into realoem to be sure.

Did any late model/sport 530s come with 6 speeds? I think they may have... I know you could get it with the 330.

[NikosX]

6 gears are overrated.

[Jcbe34]

6 gears are overrated.

~80 on the freeway at 2300 RPM :wave

[clarkKent535]

The Miller guys have brand new six speeds right from Germany for their line of cars they are producing. They bought the last one, then BMW decided to make another 20 so all their cars will still get 6 speeds!

[Binjammin]

6 gears are overrated.


You're so right. I'm going to go pull a couple gears out of my tranny. I've got an auto, but I've got a 5spd swap I'm planning on throwing in. Maybe I can cut it down to a 3spd, or even 2 or 1.

[Rebel635csi]

later 330i's and even x3's are available in 6spd versions, and seeing as thats an m54 engine it should technically bolt up to the older m50 stuff....

oh and SMG is NOT a slushbox...thats why i love it....it actually has a clutch....its just that the computer engages/disengages it. its not a slushbox in disguise

[John Q Public]

later 330i's and even x3's are available in 6spd versions, and seeing as thats an m54 engine it should technically bolt up to the older m50 stuff....

oh and SMG is NOT a slushbox...thats why i love it....it actually has a clutch....its just that the computer engages/disengages it. its not a slushbox in disguise


if you want to be technical...an Automatic transmission has clutch-packs...a SMeG is not a manual transmission...not to a purist...paddle shifting will never take the place of the coordination necessary to properly execute sport shifting...

...the biggest reason I want a MANUAL transmission is personal preference...of the 10 cars I've owned...all but two have been manual transmission...my left foot is bored...

...and to answer the question above of why a six and not an M3's five...that's easy...economy...yes I'm building more power into my M50...but I also like the idea of droning not so high above idle for where I spend the majority of my driven miles...at 65...

[ladiesman217]

~80 on the freeway at 2300 RPM :wave
:shifty
beats my 3300...
at 65 there is no droning... you are barely in the powerband at that point, under 3000 rpm... I shift OUT of 5th at about 65... to 3rd if I'm going to pass or 4th for better response and engine braking in traffic.

unless you are boosting the m50, you wouldn't be able to pull top gear at that slow of a speed anymore. You trade the low end for better top end to get more power n/a...

wish you were local, we'd go out and take a run on the street one block over.. it's a 60mph zone perfect for testing... basically many city streets here are the same legal limit as the interstate thru town, only they are quicker... and there is an 80 mph zone that starts 5 miles outside town.

[John Q Public]

:shifty
beats my 3300...
at 65 there is no droning... you are barely in the powerband at that point, under 3000 rpm... I shift OUT of 5th at about 65... to 3rd if I'm going to pass or 4th for better response and engine braking in traffic.

unless you are boosting the m50, you wouldn't be able to pull top gear at that slow of a speed anymore. You trade the low end for better top end to get more power n/a...

wish you were local, we'd go out and take a run on the street one block over.. it's a 60mph zone perfect for testing... basically many city streets here are the same legal limit as the interstate thru town, only they are quicker... and there is an 80 mph zone that starts 5 miles outside town.

...well my slushbox ain't dead yet so I'm not in a rush to do it yet...but as for power...I'm seriously thinking about punching and stroking to 3.0 or 3.2 using an MK Motorsports kit...camming...porting for larger valves...and some nice equal length headers...I'm already chipped (but will have to revise after the build naturally)...hopefully I'll be sitting in the 280 to 300 range and still naturally aspirated...top gear shouldn't be a problem...

[ladiesman217]

eh... why not save the headache and go s50 or s52 (or m52) and avoid all the machine work?

I still doubt you'll get anywhere near 280-300 rwhp n/a... ask RVA, he has an m52 in his now, shrike has the s52. why else do you think they are both looking to boost?
s52 vs s50 (3.2 vs 3.0)
Mfaq
ncreased bore to 86.4mm (from 86.0mm) and increased stroke to 89.6mm (from 85.8mm) for a total displacement of 3,152cc (from 2,990cc)
-More finely balanced camshafts
-Valve lifters, springs and spring seats with reduced mass
-Revised intake and exhaust systems
-OBD II (On-Board Diagnostics, version II) compliance
-Horsepower unchanged at 240 hp (SAE) at 6,000 rpm
-Torque increased to 236 lb/ft at 3,800 rpm (up from 225 lb/ft at 4,250 rpm)

And that is a us spec M engine... the s50 b32 had mo powah, but a lot more shh too. double vanos, more stroke, about .5 more compression, much more powerful ecu, etc etc etc. enough to make it unfeasible as a swap or as a basis for comparison with your proposed engine mods.

I'd bet you might get 220 ft lbs to the ground... at best, and probably no more than 240 whp with that engine you are proposing.

Besides Hp doesn;t accelerate a car... torque does

Everything AFTER increased displacement is stuff you do to trade lower end punch/torque (ie pulling top gear at low rpms) for higher end power (hp). headers a wash...
M Faq:
There were four different transmissions used on 3.2-liter M3s. European-spec models have a Getrag six-speed manual transmission with the following ratios: 4.23 (1), 2.51 (2), 1.67 (3), 1.23 (4), 1.00 (5), .83 (6). This same gearbox was later used (with the same ratios) as the internals of the Sequential M Gearbox (SMG).

[clevertd]

Get the euro motor if you're going for those whp #s

[John Q Public]

eh... why not save the headache and go s50 or s52 (or m52) and avoid all the machine work?

I still doubt you'll get anywhere near 280-300 rwhp n/a... ask RVA, he has an m52 in his now, shrike has the s52. why else do you think they are both looking to boost?
s52 vs s50 (3.2 vs 3.0)
Mfaq
ncreased bore to 86.4mm (from 86.0mm) and increased stroke to 89.6mm (from 85.8mm) for a total displacement of 3,152cc (from 2,990cc)
-More finely balanced camshafts
-Valve lifters, springs and spring seats with reduced mass
-Revised intake and exhaust systems
-OBD II (On-Board Diagnostics, version II) compliance
-Horsepower unchanged at 240 hp (SAE) at 6,000 rpm
-Torque increased to 236 lb/ft at 3,800 rpm (up from 225 lb/ft at 4,250 rpm)

And that is a us spec M engine... the s50 b32 had mo powah, but a lot more shh too. double vanos, more stroke, about .5 more compression, much more powerful ecu, etc etc etc. enough to make it unfeasible as a swap or as a basis for comparison with your proposed engine mods.

I'd bet you might get 220 ft lbs to the ground... at best, and probably no more than 240 whp with that engine you are proposing.

Besides Hp doesn;t accelerate a car... torque does

Everything AFTER increased displacement is stuff you do to trade lower end punch/torque (ie pulling top gear at low rpms) for higher end power (hp). headers a wash...
M Faq:
There were four different transmissions used on 3.2-liter M3s. European-spec models have a Getrag six-speed manual transmission with the following ratios: 4.23 (1), 2.51 (2), 1.67 (3), 1.23 (4), 1.00 (5), .83 (6). This same gearbox was later used (with the same ratios) as the internals of the Sequential M Gearbox (SMG).

Actually...the 3.2 MK Motorsports is 267hp before chipping and headers...which is why I'm thinking 280+...I won't do a SMeG (Tranny wise)...and VANOS is out or the question...if I'm gonna give myself the kind of heartburn in converting to OBD II...I'll go an entirely different direction and convert to an M70/S6S 560G (which I was thinking about for a different project in a year or so anyway)...then get a 550i badging for the boot :D

...right now I'm just trying to work with what I've got for the most part...

[prash]

You're so right. I'm going to go pull a couple gears out of my tranny. I've got an auto, but I've got a 5spd swap I'm planning on throwing in. Maybe I can cut it down to a 3spd, or even 2 or 1.
:rofl :rofl :rofl

[Sam Son]

i think the euro M3 6spd might work

[Johnny 5]

Just get the Zionsville kit. You don't need a gearbox rated for 425 lb ft of torque. The new generation 6 speed will do fine.

You might want to think about replacing your 4.27:1 rear end gear.

[ladiesman217]

Actually...the 3.2 MK Motorsports is 267hp before chipping and headers...which is why I'm thinking 280+...I won't do a SMeG (Tranny wise)...and VANOS is out or the question...if I'm gonna give myself the kind of heartburn in converting to OBD II...I'll go an entirely different direction and convert to an M70/S6S 560G (which I was thinking about for a different project in a year or so anyway)...then get a 550i badging for the boot :D

...right now I'm just trying to work with what I've got for the most part...
it would have to be chipped to run properly...
267 crank = ~226 whp btw after the 15% drivetrain loss.

[Binjammin]

if you want to be technical...an Automatic transmission has clutch-packs...a SMeG is not a manual transmission...not to a purist...paddle shifting will never take the place of the coordination necessary to properly execute sport shifting...

...the biggest reason I want a MANUAL transmission is personal preference...of the 10 cars I've owned...all but two have been manual transmission...my left foot is bored...

...and to answer the question above of why a six and not an M3's five...that's easy...economy...yes I'm building more power into my M50...but I also like the idea of droning not so high above idle for where I spend the majority of my driven miles...at 65...

Personal preference aside, SMG IS a manual transmission. It does not have anything in common internally with an automatic transmission, and has everything in common internally with a manual transmission. Actuation of its functions is controlled by the ecu, but it IS still a manual transmission.

[John Q Public]

it would have to be chipped to run properly...
267 crank = ~226 whp btw after the 15% drivetrain loss.

Doth thou live to piss on my Wheaties...LOL...

:deadhorse:

Seriously though...the transmission I'm looking into at this point is the one used by E60 525i...six speed for around the same power...so I'm not thinking power is actually an issue...

[John Q Public]

Personal preference aside, SMG IS a manual transmission. It does not have anything in common internally with an automatic transmission, and has everything in common internally with a manual transmission. Actuation of its functions is controlled by the ecu, but it IS still a manual transmission.

OK...I'll concede a SMeG may be a manual transmission...if you'll concede it's a limp-wristed excuse for one designed for schmucks who cannot walk and chew gum at the same time...or at least coordinate use of both feet and both hands at once...


Personally...I don't care what it is...I will NEVER own a SMeG...I'd rather just take all the brain out of it and just futz with a slushbox...