Spec'ing new 335i but found used '07 for sale -- advice on offer?

[pikeNM]

While spec'ing out a new 335i coupe, I've found (and test driven) a used 07 335 coupe with the following specs:

- Jet black, black interior, aluminum trim
- 6MT, ZSP, premium, heated seats, no nav
- 15K mileage, bought in 10/06 so it's really 1.5 yrs old
- Three wheels have minor curb scrapes, so I'm factoring in repair costs

The car's MSRP was $45k and they're offering $42k (crazy talk). But they said they were very negotiable and frankly trying sell a used manual-tranny car at a no-name dealership in Santa Fe is a difficult proposition.

So, I'm taking the MSRP, deducting 22% for 1.5yrs depreciation and arriving at $35K, plus maybe just a touch more for the scuffed wheels. I'm considering dropping the offer to $34K to further account for the higher used-car interest rates I'll face. I doubt they'll go for it, but you never know.

Thoughts?

[LuvMyE92]

Is it a BMW dealership? Are they CPO'ing the car? If not, and you want more warranty, consider that as well. It will cost money, of course, but you also get the BMW CCA rebate on a CPO used car.

I just bought a (new) car equipped almost exactly the same except that I also have comfort access and wood trim. I think your offer sounds reasonable. It depends on how long they've had it and how greedy they are, but if they are smart they'll take the 34K and be happy that they made a few bucks. Find out if you can what it will bring at auction (me guesses 32ish) and make this argument to them: "Look, you can sell it to me for 34 or you can keep it for three more months, pay interest on your floor plan and sell it at auction for 32. I think selling it to me now is the smarter move. But it's your choice. I'm buying a car by the end of the week, let me know if it will be your car or someone elses."

Best of luck,

Michael

[pikeNM]

Thanks Michael. It's not a BMW dealership -- it's a fairly no-name dealership that seems to mostly sell off-lease and auction vehicles. The car in question came from Illinois (not sure how it got to NM), and has a clean carfax. The folks there know nothing about BMW's in general, and even less about this car. In the sales manager's words, it's a "hot sports car". I think this lack of knowledge is partially reflected in the insanity of pricing a $45K MSRP car at $42k after 15K miles/1.5yrs.

They got all excited when I showed up, because I actually explained the feature-set of the car. :-)

As far as warranty, my offer needs to reflect that there is 2.5 yrs of original warranty remaining on the car, and that's it.

David

[mryakan]

I'd be careful with a no name dealership. Those guys don't usually get the best of the crop if you know what I mean. Are they at least a "high-end car" no name dealership?

[pikeNM]

I'd be careful with a no name dealership. Those guys don't usually get the best of the crop if you know what I mean. Are they at least a "high-end car" no name dealership?

lol, yes. Mostly a mix of BMWs, Audis, Infinitis (jeez, what's the plural of Infinity?), a few Saabs, and plenty of Subaru's (which are everywhere here). They just opened a month or two ago.

As far as "best of the crop" goes -- I'm going on the assumption that between carfax, a detailed off-site inspection, and my own two eyes, I can at least come to a reasonable conclusion about the state of the car. It's not perfect, of course. Such is the peril of used-car buying in general.

[DrRT]

Offer 32K

[mryakan]

lol, yes. Mostly a mix of BMWs, Audis, Infinitis (jeez, what's the plural of Infinity?), a few Saabs, and plenty of Subaru's (which are everywhere here). They just opened a month or two ago.

As far as "best of the crop" goes -- I'm going on the assumption that between carfax, a detailed off-site inspection, and my own two eyes, I can at least come to a reasonable conclusion about the state of the car. It's not perfect, of course. Such is the peril of used-car buying in general.
Agree. With my luck, I try to stay away from used cars, my previous experiences haven't been pleasant.

[gtp e38]

I say just be careful, here are a few ways to check:

1. Carfax
2. Take your finger and gently pull back any and all rubber seals around the windsheild, door jambs trunk etc., see if you can see a *step* in the paint, it should be baby smooth but if there is ANY ridge the car has had paint work, also look for any sort of overspray as well, oh and look closely at the weather seal around the sunroof for these same things. Also another trick, take your finget tips and run them along the very edge of the base of the hood (near the windseild) this edge should be smooth if it has any rough spots this is a clear sign of repaint, do this same process at every seam and joint of the car, becuase body shops usually mask right at this spot and the excess material builds up around the tape.
3. get the car on a lift and look underneath it see if there is anything that has been scrapped, dented or mucked up, be sure to check the suspension arms, sometimes when they replace these items the tech is too lazy to remove the tags this is an indication of something going wrong.
4. drive the car, I mean DRIVE it, corners, freeway, stop/go etc., makes sure you feel comfortable with the way the car drives, no rattles, make sure the car tracks straight forward with no pulling to one side or another etc.

I say based on what I've been seeing at the auctions $34,969 with 10K I would say you're not too far off. IF the dealer is going to be honest, tell them that you are willing to allow them to make a profit (everyone has to eat right?) ask to see what they paid for the car, then make them a reasonable offer above that, and be reasonable, I'm sure that if they want to sell the car and they are an honest dealership, they will have no problems doing that.

Good luck, and hope to see you driving a 335i soon!!! If you need any help PM me.

[robmpulse]

bmw keeps the good cars for themselves. the others get sent to the auction and end up at no name dealers.

there is a reason this car was at the auction.

i would steer clear unless you were getting it at a VERY good price.

[mryakan]

IF the dealer is going to be honest, .
:lol:lol:lol I vote this oxymoron of the month ;). Trust car dealers/salesmen at your own peril. A few may exist in this world but they probably look like ol' Gil Gunderson:D

[pikeNM]

All good points, thanks.

It's a pity that it's so perilous to buy a used car. It *should* be relatively low risk to buy a low-mileage 1-2 year old car with remaining warranty, while saving a bunch of money on depreciation. The reality is generally otherwise.

[gtp e38]

:lol:lol:lol I vote this oxymoron of the month ;). Trust car dealers/salesmen at your own peril. A few may exist in this world but they probably look like ol' Gil Gunderson:D

LOLOL, that was funny!! I do have to agree in general terms, but as with everything there are always some bad apples out there, but there are still some decent and honest people out there, don't lose hope on them all.

[Sniz]

I have always had good experiences purchasing used cars, you just have to be very careful and not trust anyone!

Get the car inspected by a reputable mechanic in the area, test drive it to no end, then retest drive, carfax, ask questions, etc.

I purchased my 335 used off of autotrader.com w/ 1400 miles on it for 41k last March as a benchpoint for you. Its got most options other than idrive.

Here it is in New Hampshire when I flew up to get it. Looks a lot different now!

Goodluck!

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q248/mattsniz/MontegoBlueinNewHampshire.jpg

[slow323Ci]

I'm likely buying a 2007 335i coupe this week. A few details left to hammer out but it's a CPO car at a BMW dealership. Every option except nav/idrive and active steering. Montego blue over cream. Steptronic and it has the oil cooler. 10 months in service, 7500 miles. $39k. I think it's a great deal. A 2008 would sticker at $51,620 and have a shorter warranty.

This would be my 3rd CPO BMW from the same dealer. I've had nothing but good luck so far, knock on wood...

[Sniz]

sounds like a good deal to me!

[jurrianT]

Sounds like a good deal as well... Go for it!

[SG333E]

I'm likely buying a 2007 335i coupe this week. A few details left to hammer out but it's a CPO car at a BMW dealership. Every option except nav/idrive and active steering. Montego blue over cream. Steptronic and it has the oil cooler. 10 months in service, 7500 miles. $39k. I think it's a great deal. A 2008 would sticker at $51,620 and have a shorter warranty.

This would be my 3rd CPO BMW from the same dealer. I've had nothing but good luck so far, knock on wood...

CPO cars in theory are checked for paintwork, so you should be OK there. Curious how you get to 51K without nav or XI?

Anyway good luck, my car is coming into Knauz any day now!!

To the OP, there is some good advice above..lots of buybacks these days. And just to prove "they sell a lot of highline cars" doesn't mean dick, google luxury motors IL horror stories and see what you get. They move more highline cars than anyone in the country, bar none. 1/3 to 1/2 have paintwork of some sort, or so my friends in the industry locally tell me.

[slow323Ci]

CPO cars in theory are checked for paintwork, so you should be OK there. Curious how you get to 51K without nav or XI?

Anyway good luck, my car is coming into Knauz any day now!!

Good luck on your new one!

CPO inspection is no better than the dealer doing the enrollment. I checked the car over myself, too. Not that I don't trust them, but I don't trust them ;)

I just priced a 2008 on BMW's website again with the options the car I'm looking at has, and it came to $51,670 (not $51,620 as I stated earlier) :dunno:

335i coupe
metallic paint
steptronic w/paddles
sport
premium
cold weather
comfort access
active cruise
park distance
Sirius

I think that's it. Unless I made a mistake somewhere but I don't think I did, in any case I think $39k is a very good price.

[slow323Ci]

google luxury motors IL horror stories and see what you get. They move more highline cars than anyone in the country, bar none. 1/3 to 1/2 have paintwork of some sort, or so my friends in the industry locally tell me.

Just noticed you mention Luxury Motors.... yikes! I've talked with a guy who works there and they pretty much acknowledged that their cars are the bottom of the barrel, that's how they have such low prices.

[LuvMyE92]

bmw keeps the good cars for themselves. the others get sent to the auction and end up at no name dealers.

there is a reason this car was at the auction.

i would steer clear unless you were getting it at a VERY good price.

I disagree. "BMW" doesn't own the cars, the dealer that it was traded in at owned it. If the previous owner couldn't handle the payments, or just wanted something new... maybe they wanted better mileage, so they traded it in on a Suzuki (where's the emoticon for barfing?). Your typical Suzuki dealership isn't going to get the kind of traffic that can buy a 40K used car, so they auctioned it. That's perfectly normal, and nothing wrong with that. Natch I'm making assumptions, it could just as easily be a flood vehicle that later fell off the truck, rolled and was crushed before being rebuilt by Jimmy-Joe-Bob, had the title washed and is now in NM with the IL history.

If you have a good relationship with a BMW dealer, it would be worth the trouble to find out who the original owner was and call them; find out the true story.

[SG333E]

Good luck on your new one!

CPO inspection is no better than the dealer doing the enrollment. I checked the car over myself, too. Not that I don't trust them, but I don't trust them ;)

I just priced a 2008 on BMW's website again with the options the car I'm looking at has, and it came to $51,670 (not $51,620 as I stated earlier) :dunno:

335i coupe
metallic paint
steptronic w/paddles
sport
premium
cold weather
comfort access
active cruise
park distance
Sirius

I think that's it. Unless I made a mistake somewhere but I don't think I did, in any case I think $39k is a very good price.

By checking every other box besides NAV I guess! Sounds like a nice catch. Everyone buying an 07 or any used highline should invest in a digital paint meter.

[DrRT]

I say just be careful, here are a few ways to check:

1. Carfax
2. Take your finger and gently pull back any and all rubber seals around the windsheild, door jambs trunk etc., see if you can see a *step* in the paint, it should be baby smooth but if there is ANY ridge the car has had paint work, also look for any sort of overspray as well, oh and look closely at the weather seal around the sunroof for these same things. Also another trick, take your finget tips and run them along the very edge of the base of the hood (near the windseild) this edge should be smooth if it has any rough spots this is a clear sign of repaint, do this same process at every seam and joint of the car, becuase body shops usually mask right at this spot and the excess material builds up around the tape.
3. get the car on a lift and look underneath it see if there is anything that has been scrapped, dented or mucked up, be sure to check the suspension arms, sometimes when they replace these items the tech is too lazy to remove the tags this is an indication of something going wrong.
4. drive the car, I mean DRIVE it, corners, freeway, stop/go etc., makes sure you feel comfortable with the way the car drives, no rattles, make sure the car tracks straight forward with no pulling to one side or another etc.

I say based on what I've been seeing at the auctions $34,969 with 10K I would say you're not too far off. IF the dealer is going to be honest, tell them that you are willing to allow them to make a profit (everyone has to eat right?) ask to see what they paid for the car, then make them a reasonable offer above that, and be reasonable, I'm sure that if they want to sell the car and they are an honest dealership, they will have no problems doing that.

Good luck, and hope to see you driving a 335i soon!!! If you need any help PM me.

very good advice

[solankir]

I disagree. "BMW" doesn't own the cars, the dealer that it was traded in at owned it. If the previous owner couldn't handle the payments, or just wanted something new... maybe they wanted better mileage, so they traded it in on a Suzuki (where's the emoticon for barfing?). Your typical Suzuki dealership isn't going to get the kind of traffic that can buy a 40K used car, so they auctioned it. That's perfectly normal, and nothing wrong with that. Natch I'm making assumptions, it could just as easily be a flood vehicle that later fell off the truck, rolled and was crushed before being rebuilt by Jimmy-Joe-Bob, had the title washed and is now in NM with the IL history.

If you have a good relationship with a BMW dealer, it would be worth the trouble to find out who the original owner was and call them; find out the true story.


LuvMyE92,

Please contact me about your wheels that you want to sell from the other thread--I live in NC. I dont seem to be able to PM you and there is no contact info for you.
Raj

solanki_rajesh at yahoo dot
com

[paul e]

While spec'ing out a new 335i coupe, I've found (and test driven) a used 07 335 coupe with the following specs:

- Jet black, black interior, aluminum trim
- 6MT, ZSP, premium, heated seats, no nav
- 15K mileage, bought in 10/06 so it's really 1.5 yrs old
- Three wheels have minor curb scrapes, so I'm factoring in repair costs

The car's MSRP was $45k and they're offering $42k (crazy talk). But they said they were very negotiable and frankly trying sell a used manual-tranny car at a no-name dealership in Santa Fe is a difficult proposition.

So, I'm taking the MSRP, deducting 22% for 1.5yrs depreciation and arriving at $35K, plus maybe just a touch more for the scuffed wheels. I'm considering dropping the offer to $34K to further account for the higher used-car interest rates I'll face. I doubt they'll go for it, but you never know.

Thoughts?

Just curious.. how do we arrive at 22% depreciation?

[SocratesBMW]

Wow - you don't have much knowledge of the car do you? Unless your area has no buying base for the car, you won't see anyone taking less than $38K. Hell, they list the car you're looking at for $42-45K where I am and they are getting it.

[Ty Vil]

I really don't get a good feeling from this car.

And it doesn't have the 6FL...

[pikeNM]

Wow - you don't have much knowledge of the car do you? Unless your area has no buying base for the car, you won't see anyone taking less than $38K. Hell, they list the car you're looking at for $42-45K where I am and they are getting it.

Huh, so that's what it feels like to be flamed. Kinda itches a little.

Jeez, all these agonizing months spent poring over every detail of this car and the associated financing, maintenance, and overall cost of ownership details, and crap -- I don't know anything about this car! :-P

But hey, you must be right. All those folks on this board that picked up 1yr old 335i E92's with far less than 15K miles on the clock, for under $40K, those people must be figments of our collective imagination.

I'm sure glad I don't live where you do. :-)

Nobody in their right mind would buy such a car for anywhere near $42K-45K as it would *cost* more over 3-4 years than a new 2008 model, given the lower resale value, additional post-warranty maintenance costs, and significantly higher user-car financing rates.

[Ty Vil]

Huh, so that's what it feels like to be flamed. Kinda itches a little.

Jeez, all these agonizing months spent poring over every detail of this car and the associated financing, maintenance, and overall cost of ownership details, and crap,

But hey, you must be right. All those folks on this board that picked up 1yr old 335i E92's with far less than 15K miles on the clock, for under $40K, those people must be figments of our collective imagination.

I'm sure glad I don't live where you do. :-)

Nobody in their right mind would buy such a car for anywhere near $42K-45K as it would *cost* more over 3-4 years than a new 2008 model, given the lower resale value, additional post-warranty maintenance costs, and significantly higher user-car financing rates.
You're pretty much spot on.

[pikeNM]

I really don't get a good feeling from this car.

And it doesn't have the 6FL...

Hey Ty. Remember me? David, from Seattle, Imola E46 M3. We drove down to Bimmerfest a few years ago.

Yeah, I agree about this particular car. At the end of the day, I don't want a black E92, so...it would have to be stupidly cheap for me to bite, even if the car was perfectly sound in all other respects.

[Ty Vil]

Hey Ty. Remember me? David, from Seattle, Imola E46 M3. We drove down to Bimmerfest a few years ago.

Yeah, I agree about this particular car. At the end of the day, I don't want a black E92, so...it would have to be stupidly cheap for me to bite, even if the car was perfectly sound in all other respects.
Microsoft David from Canada???

[LuvMyE92]

Huh, so that's what it feels like to be flamed. Kinda itches a little.


:lol3 :clap

[pikeNM]

Microsoft David from Canada???

Lol, that's me. Nobody's ever called me "Microsoft David" before. :-)

I remember you were a serious BMW fanatic, so it's awesome to see that you ended up working at a dealership.

[mryakan]

Hmmmm, I should know Microsoft David fro Canada, after all there is only me, him and Joe right! :stickoutt

[Vanos01]

Is it a BMW dealership? Are they CPO'ing the car? If not, and you want more warranty, consider that as well. It will cost money, of course, but you also get the BMW CCA rebate on a CPO used car.

I just bought a (new) car equipped almost exactly the same except that I also have comfort access and wood trim. I think your offer sounds reasonable. It depends on how long they've had it and how greedy they are, but if they are smart they'll take the 34K and be happy that they made a few bucks. Find out if you can what it will bring at auction (me guesses 32ish) and make this argument to them: "Look, you can sell it to me for 34 or you can keep it for three more months, pay interest on your floor plan and sell it at auction for 32. I think selling it to me now is the smarter move. But it's your choice. I'm buying a car by the end of the week, let me know if it will be your car or someone elses."

Best of luck,

Michael

Ha, ha I love that approach! :lol

[deems]

Great advice - be VERY careful. I would stress the importance of getting it checked out by someone that really knows these cars inside and out. The problem is that you'll never know how it was driven.

Are you real fussy about your cars? If so, you should buy new cars or buy from a enthusiast that takes superb care of their cars. You might want to consider shopping for a car that is being sold by a private party. You will probably pay more, but you'll have more info to base your decision on once you meet the previous owner.

[pikeNM]

Deems, I agree. I actually just ordered a new E92 today, so that closes the issue for me.

[deems]

Deems, I agree. I actually just ordered a new E92 today, so that closes the issue for me.

Great decision! You can't put a dollar amount on how nice is to pick up a NEW car that's configured exactly the way you want it and then break it in the way you want to. And whatever premium you pay, it's worth it. Plus, if you spread the premium over the life of the car and include all other car expenses, it's peanuts. Good for you!

[pikeNM]

Not to mention, when I went to check out the used 1yr old 335i again yesterday, someone had pranged the rear bumper and there was a deep scrape on it. The dealer mentioned doing a quick repair with paint blending. And THAT's the kind of thing I worry about; a repair on a nearly new car that looks okay now, but will be obvious in just a year or two.

I still remember taking delivery of my E46 M3 off the showroom floor, 5 months after I ordered it, with 9 miles on the clock. That was an awesome day.

[deems]

They did you a favor by showing you how little they care about doing things right. Too many red flags.

Let us know when you get your E92, ok?

[Briar]

Make sure the car has not been "wrecked" and repaired.
If this is clean, then a price at or under $34K is a reasonable deal.
I suspect you can negotiate to $32-33K, but not sure.
I have a 335i, bought May'07, with 14K miles, Nav, and the best I can get in SF Bay area is about $36K. This I know since shopping to trade up to a 535i. Good luck and keep us posted.

[slow323Ci]

Not to mention, when I went to check out the used 1yr old 335i again yesterday, someone had pranged the rear bumper and there was a deep scrape on it. The dealer mentioned doing a quick repair with paint blending. And THAT's the kind of thing I worry about; a repair on a nearly new car that looks okay now, but will be obvious in just a year or two.

Not to burst your bubble, but a "brand new" car with 9 miles on it can have repairs done to it either at the VPC or the dealership that are FAR more extensive than a touched up bumper and they don't heave to tell you a thing about it.

[pikeNM]

Not to burst your bubble, but a "brand new" car with 9 miles on it can have repairs done to it either at the VPC or the dealership that are FAR more extensive than a touched up bumper and they don't heave to tell you a thing about it.

lol, stop, you're bringing me down, man. That reminds me of the shipping boat that had a little accident near port recently and wrecked a ton of E90/92 M3's and 1 series cars.

Yes, that's true. But, statistically speaking, new car ownership is less risky with more of the warranty period intact to cover anything that might have been done before you got there.

It's kind of sad that used car ownership has become, IMHO, more perilous due to the surge in leasing. How many times have I heard someone (well of course, not on *this* board) post something to the effect of "It was just a leased car, so I wasn't too worried about break-in". :confused Folks seem to see leasing as a way to just drive a car and let the dealer handle everything. That means no extra oil changes, no break in, nada.

Amongst other reasons, I didn't buy this particular E92 because I basically refuse to own a black car. I have hundreds and hundreds of dollars of Griot's products in my garage from a time when I used to be a borderline-OCD car owner, and I'm not going back to that dark place... :-)

[slow323Ci]

lol, stop, you're bringing me down, man. That reminds me of the shipping boat that had a little accident near port recently and wrecked a ton of E90/92 M3's and 1 series cars.

Yes, that's true. But, statistically speaking, new car ownership is less risky with more of the warranty period intact to cover anything that might have been done before you got there.

It's kind of sad that used car ownership has become, IMHO, more perilous due to the surge in leasing. How many times have I heard someone (well of course, not on *this* board) post something to the effect of "It was just a leased car, so I wasn't too worried about break-in". :confused Folks seem to see leasing as a way to just drive a car and let the dealer handle everything. That means no extra oil changes, no break in, nada.

Amongst other reasons, I didn't buy this particular E92 because I basically refuse to own a black car. I have hundreds and hundreds of dollars of Griot's products in my garage from a time when I used to be a borderline-OCD car owner, and I'm not going back to that dark place... :-)

Hehe, I get you, man. I hope I didn't sound snotty earlier... Typed stuff doesn't always come off as intended.

I think the lease phenomena is due to the fact that these cars are so expensive that not many people can afford to buy them outright.

The only way I would buy an ex-lease car is if there were records showing it was serviced properly. My CPO E92 wasn't a leased car. The owner had it for 10 months and then traded it on the exact same car except with AWD. Imagine the hit he took...

[pikeNM]

Yup.

Well, now that I have a new car on order, I plan on treating it very well. I may only end up owning it for 3-4 years, but I'm going to be damn sure that it's in excellent, well-documented condition for the next owner, who'll hopefully be another enthusiast, maybe even a forum member on this site.

[Beer Goggles]

I haven't seen 335s going for 32-34 regardless of options (options are the worst for resale).

Finding an nice used car is easy, you just have to look. Or find a enthusiast that has to get out of his car for whatever reason.

Remember BMW has high residual value, partly because they inflate it with their leases (which is why we get them so cheap).

[mryakan]

Not to burst your bubble, but a "brand new" car with 9 miles on it can have repairs done to it either at the VPC or the dealership that are FAR more extensive than a touched up bumper and they don't heave to tell you a thing about it.
Not 100% true, I believe there is a certain amount of damage after which they have to inform the dealer and customer.

[Beer Goggles]

Not 100% true, I believe there is a certain amount of damage after which they have to inform the dealer and customer.


uhhh It's very true. I heard from more than one place that shipping damage does NOT get disclosed. Obviously at some point it becomes an issue but they don't have to disclose repairs.

[mryakan]

uhhh It's very true. I heard from more than one place that shipping damage does NOT get disclosed. Obviously at some point it becomes an issue but they don't have to disclose repairs.
errr, your sources are not very reliable then. Here some examples to prove my point:
http://www.mwerks.com/artman/publish/bmw_news/article_1296.shtml
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256015
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=256225

[slow323Ci]

Not 100% true, I believe there is a certain amount of damage after which they have to inform the dealer and customer.
Clearly you are someone that has to be right even if it involves going to ridiculous extremes. We aren't talking about salvaging totalled cars here.

It is 100% true that damage far beyond a scraped bumper is routinely repaired without disclosure at the VPC or dealership.

Repainted doors, hoods, etc. kind of stuff. Obviously there is a limit but it is far, far beyond touching up the paint on a bumper.

[chaz13]

Clearly you are someone that has to be right even if it involves going to ridiculous extremes. We aren't talking about salvaging totalled cars here.

It is 100% true that damage far beyond a scraped bumper is routinely repaired without disclosure at the VPC or dealership.

Repainted doors, hoods, etc. kind of stuff. Obviously there is a limit but it is far, far beyond touching up the paint on a bumper.
If you read the first link it says even if the car had less than 3% damage the owner will be notified and has the right to refuse it and be replaced w/ a new one.

[LuvMyE92]

If you read the first link it says even if the car had less than 3% damage the owner will be notified and has the right to refuse it and be replaced w/ a new one.

No, it says that if the damage is more than 3%, then they will notify the owner. But let's not forget:

a) not everything you read on the Internet is true
b) the "owner" may just be the dealer that ordered the car
c) 3% is BMW's cost of refinishing/repairing the cost... so on a $50,001 car you could have a wholesale cost of $1500 worth of repairs (which could easily be more than twice that if it was a typical retail repair done by someone else) and it wouldn't need to be disclosed.

Remember guys, BMW got sued on this many years ago, and so they are now very careful to cover their butts on damage disclosure.

But, don't forget, again, let me remind you again, please, just because you read it on the Internet doesn't make it true.

[slow323Ci]

If you read the first link it says even if the car had less than 3% damage the owner will be notified and has the right to refuse it and be replaced w/ a new one.

Like LuvMyE92 said, 3% can cover a lot of damage - remember this whole discussion is about damage relative to a scuffed bumper (dealer cost of about $50 to fix, and even less at the VPC) - so another $1000+ in non-disclosable repairs can be quite significant.

I'm done with this particular tangent, it's been beaten to death I think.

[pikeNM]

As the OP, I formally commit this thread to the ground. RIP.

PS: The black 335i I originally posted about is still at the dealer's lot. Actually, it's now sitting next to a black E46 M3. Both are covered in a layer of brown dust (welcome to the desert).

The lot is on my way to work, and every day as I drive by those cars, I'm reminded of when I went to the animal shelter to adopt my dog, and cruised past all those stalls of sad looking dogs, waiting to be adopted. Sniff. I hope those BMWs find a loving home.

[mryakan]

Clearly you are someone that has to be right even if it involves going to ridiculous extremes. We aren't talking about salvaging totalled cars here.

It is 100% true that damage far beyond a scraped bumper is routinely repaired without disclosure at the VPC or dealership.

Repainted doors, hoods, etc. kind of stuff. Obviously there is a limit but it is far, far beyond touching up the paint on a bumper.
I don't have to be right, I like accuracy though. If I am wrong please correct me. All I said is it is not 100% true that all damage goes unreported, and someone was trying to prove that wrong. Us engineering types are a weird breed, we love accuracy even if to some it is irrelevant.

[rstraker]

The car's MSRP was $45k and they're offering $42k (crazy talk). But they said they were very negotiable and frankly trying sell a used manual-tranny car at a no-name dealership in Santa Fe is a difficult proposition.

So, I'm taking the MSRP, deducting 22% for 1.5yrs depreciation and arriving at $35K, plus maybe just a touch more for the scuffed wheels. I'm considering dropping the offer to $34K to further account for the higher used-car interest rates I'll face. I doubt they'll go for it, but you never know.

Thoughts?

I would:

- check the Kelly Blue Book pricing (www.kbb.com (http://www.kbb.com))
- check CarFax, and
- (most importantly) have a BMW mechanic check the car.

I bought a 335i coupe last November, with the Buyer's Check added to the contract. Worked out great, since the mechanic found that there had been substantial suspension damage that might later void warranty repairs, and I was able to return the car with no problem.

You might also check www.garnettmotorcars.com (http://www.garnettmotorcars.com). I just bought a 335i coupe from them a couple of months ago, had the Buyer's Check done (pre-purchase this time) and am enjoying the car. They sell clean, used BMWs and Mercedes at good prices.

Rick