Mini, Civic or Jetta TDI?

[Cory]

I drive about 250 miles a day and am getting tired of gas stations. Any arguments for a winner among a non-turbo Mini, Civic EX or the Jetta TDI that's coming out in September?
Thanks.

[SDKmann]

Diesel prices are going way up now too so you might wanna rethink the Jetta. In my mind it would be a no brainer, MINI all the way. I think the MINI would absolutely kill either of the other cars in handling.

[Cory]

Good call, especially if I get it with sport suspension and maybe a front tower brace (even if it's just for looks). I did a quick test several months ago and seemed to like the non-turbo smoothness better than the somewhat hyper turbo.

[catseye]

250 miles per day in a car that's not fun is, well, not fun. MINI.

[NCMINIGUY]

yeah, 250 miles a day is a lot. make sure you test out the sport and non sport seats, you might find one more comfortable than the other.

also, check out the clubman. gets the same mileage, but has a slightly longer wheelbase which makes it ride a bit better. Still a blast to drive, though!

[BimmerNate]

Minis are awesome...

[Cory]

Since some of you know your Minis and I don't, did I miss anything with the order that I'm considering:
- Nightfire Red
- Sport Package
- Front and Rear Fog Lights
- Manual Transmission
- Center Arm Rest
- Anthracite Headliner
- Gravity Tuscan Beige Leather
- 10 Speaker Hi-Fi Stereo
- Hi Def Radio
- JCW Strut Brace
- Mud Flaps
- Rubber Floor Mats
- R90 16" Wheels
No sunroof and non-turbo.

Thanks.

[NCMINIGUY]

What color top?
I like the leather in MINIs, but it is pretty expensive and doesn't wear as well as the leatherette. You also don't have cruise control on there, which would seem to be a must with such a long drive. I'd want bluetooth as well, so I'd add the convenience package.

I'd also go aftermarket for the strut tower brace, skip the mud flaps, but I'm torn on the wheels.

If it were me, I'd do the following, which is about the same cost:

Nightfire red/black
sport package
convenience package
front and rear fogs
anthracite headliner
tuscan beige leather
piano black dash
hi-fi and hi-def (what about satellite radio?)
and get the 16" bridge spokes with all season tires

Then go aftermarket for the other wheels and tires (MINI wheels are really nice, but VERY expensive)

[e28forlife]

I would suggest driving the r56 minis, they are trully special cars. However I'd be tempted by the Civic (s?) with 200hp. For a DD, it would likely have better mpg, and the sedan would make getting more than two people around town a much happier affair.

I can't believe I've forgotten the name, but arnt those Civic type S (or whatever) cheaper than Cooper S?

[catseye]

I would suggest driving the r56 minis, they are trully special cars. However I'd be tempted by the Civic (s?) with 200hp. For a DD, it would likely have better mpg, and the sedan would make getting more than two people around town a much happier affair.

I can't believe I've forgotten the name, but arnt those Civic type S (or whatever) cheaper than Cooper S?
They are cheaper, but I can tell you, there is no comparison in driving experience. The MINI is a ball!

[Mitch]

I would suggest driving the r56 minis, they are trully special cars. However I'd be tempted by the Civic (s?) with 200hp. For a DD, it would likely have better mpg, and the sedan would make getting more than two people around town a much happier affair.

I can't believe I've forgotten the name, but arnt those Civic type S (or whatever) cheaper than Cooper S?

I'm really happy with my Civic Si. I test drove the MCS, and while I loved the driving experience, the interior doesn't hold a candle to the Civic Si interior. For daily comfort and sportiness, I'd highly suggest the Civic Si. The Civic EX and EX-L are also good vehicles, but obviously fair much further in the direction of comfort.

[RonFromNY]

I am very happy with my Prius. With a few mods I should be able to improve performance a bit.

[MrBlah]

once the newness wears off, your left with a crappy handling car, that's not very fun to drive, who cares about the interior

Mini all the way, I had to make the choice last summer, same options and a few other cars

the mini is simply MUCH more fun to drive, I could not handle 250 miles a day in a Prius or a honda

[Mitch]

once the newness wears off, your left with a crappy handling car, that's not very fun to drive, who cares about the interior

Mini all the way, I had to make the choice last summer, same options and a few other cars

the mini is simply MUCH more fun to drive, I could not handle 250 miles a day in a Prius or a honda

The Si is fun to drive. I've had it for a year, and I don't think of it as a new car any more. I still love the interior layout, seat comfort, how well the seats hold. I also still love the driving dynamics.

[MrBlah]

I test drove one and it just did not feel as fun as a mini

there's a reason the mini is ranked the most fun car to drive in every single review it's ever been in that I've found

[catseye]

I am very happy with my Prius. With a few mods I should be able to improve performance a bit.
My wife drives a Prius. We have had over 60 cars in 32 years, and I would have to rate it as one of the very best cars ever. Excellent quality of build and drive, and the mpg is amazing. We drove from NC to DC, drove around and BACK on 1 13 gal. tank of gas! Only thing I don't like are the seats.

I test drove one and it just did not feel as fun as a mini

there's a reason the mini is ranked the most fun car to drive in every single review it's ever been in that I've found
The Si is a great car, but I can vouch for the opinions of all the reviews - the MINI is a blast, and if you like the feeling of scooting around in a fast, solid, street legal go-kart, you can't beat it.

[J0kER]

Since some of you know your Minis and I don't, did I miss anything with the order that I'm considering:
- Nightfire Red
- Sport Package
- Front and Rear Fog Lights
- Manual Transmission
- Center Arm Rest
- Anthracite Headliner
- Gravity Tuscan Beige Leather
- 10 Speaker Hi-Fi Stereo
- Hi Def Radio
- JCW Strut Brace
- Mud Flaps
- Rubber Floor Mats
- R90 16" Wheels
No sunroof and non-turbo.

Thanks.
i'd get rid of teh two in red,jcw brace, theres way better and unless ur takin' this mini on teh track u will never need it.
go turbo,wont be nearly as fun w/out it. sunroof!? gotta have a one of those:buttrock

[mistercindy]

I test drove a regular Mini in manual transmission and loved it. It is, by far, a more fun car to drive than the Civic or Jetta. There's a great feel of the car and the road. And the fit and finish look and feel superior.

[rimplestultskin]

see what diesel prices are like in a few months, but i doubt they're gonna come down at all. and my mini is an absolute blast to drive, it feels like more of a sports car than any other car in the family, and my parents drive big gas-guzzling american V8s.

and if you get it with leather or leatherette seats, it feels exactly like a luxury car.

so mini all the way, assuming diesel stays above the price of gas. but if diesel drops drastically, or rises more slowly than gas, then think about the TDI jetta.

[Fauschnaut]

as much as i love minis and dislike VW that TDI is gonna get you like 52-55 mpg

so if gas is an issue the TDI might be worth it for the extra bucks you might put into the diesel

[SergEG]

The Si is a great car, but I can vouch for the opinions of all the reviews - the MINI is a blast, and if you like the feeling of scooting around in a fast, solid, street legal go-kart, you can't beat it.

Meh

A Del Sol with coil overs and some decent tires will do that too -- wish they still sold them

I think there is more potential with the Si personally but I am very well experienced with Honda stuff

Engine and drivetrain are hands down better in the Honda - 2.0L street setups making 250whp NA and 500whp with boost (stock block)

If anyone wants to really argue build quality and the resale value of a Honda be my guest, we all know who wins there too

But for communting...thats a personal preference thing that is way too subjective to even try to answer

I used to communte about 120 miles a day in my 99 Civic hatch with no A/C in 110+ heat...but with damn near 180whp NA and 2400lbs I wasnt too sad about it...guess it just depends on what your willing to live with

As far as seating goes...these bad boys are very very nice

http://images.hondatuningmagazine.com/features/0509ht_07z+2006_Honda_Civic_Si+Front_Seating_View. jpg

[catseye]

as much as i love minis and dislike VW that TDI is gonna get you like 52-55 mpg....
You're gonna appreciate that considering the price of diesel fuel....

Meh

A Del Sol with coil overs and some decent tires will do that too.....
:lol you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no comparison. Not even worth arguing, but hilarious......

....If anyone wants to really argue build quality and the resale value of a Honda be my guest, we all know who wins there too...
:lol again

Here’s a great trivia question to ask your friends: “What is the only vehicle to be included on Kelley Blue Book's Top 10 Best Resale Value list every year since 2003?”


Best Resale Value:

Money Magazine 2008 - MINI Cooper (http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2007/autos/0711/gallery.2007_best_resale_value_top_10//4.html)
MSNBC - 2006 - MINI Cooper (http://www.motoringfile.com/2006/03/26/more-accolades-for-minis-resale-value/)
http://www.motoringfile.com/2007/11/25/top-10-best-resale-value-cars/
Kelley Blue Book 2006 - MINI Cooper (http://www.autoblog.com/2005/10/06/kbb-announces-2006-best-resale-value-award-winners/)
Kelley Blue Book 2007 - MINI Cooper (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177678)

Now I know why wonder everyone flames you....:rofl

[J0kER]

them seats are killer:buttrock (if they perform as good as they look) but ur other views are a bit out of bounds, u cant beat a MiNi in resale value.....cant really compare it to a honda car either!

[SergEG]

:lol you have no idea what you are talking about. There is no comparison. Not even worth arguing, but hilarious......


Sure I dont...over a G on 17" street tires...I guess the progress group just makes stuff up :rolleyes

Directly from your KBB source
http://www.kbb.com/kbb/NewsAndReviews/BestResaleValueAwards.aspx?ContentUniqueName=KBBWe bContent-2262&YearId=2008&SelectedTabIndex=0&VehicleId=223982
"Defined in equal parts by attractive styling, distinctive interiors and leading-edge powertrains, the Honda Civic's bulletproof reputation for quality, durability and reliability solidifies its position as arguably the least-risky new- and used-car buy out there."

Oh and of the 11 spots on the list Honda had 4...more than any other OEM

Demand is high with Mini's because high school girls love how cute they are...but having sold a few mini's over the years I was very unimpressed to say the least...to each his own and Im sure its fun to drive...having owned alot of mod'd fwd cars I know the formula well

When it comes to fwd performance though...Honda has been a leader for quite some time...unfortunately we just dont get their performance versions most of the time....when we do they are in limited numbers and fetch for much higher dollars than Minis do...

The Si is a step but still somewhat watered down for the states...even still comparing the powerplants from either car will quickly reveal which is the more advanced....

The turbo was a nice change and will go a long way towards making more power but the head isnt as advanced

This will come down to preference....the Si is quite a car though

[mistercindy]

The Jetta TDI or the Mini. The Mini's fit and finish is great, and it drives beautifully. And the regular Cooper will get more than 400 miles on a tank of gas. But that Jetta diesel gets incredible mileage. Of the two I'd say get the Mini. Its a great little car.

[catseye]

Sure I dont......
yeah, okay, you win.... a del sol is much better than a mini....:rofl

[Cory]

Even though the Honda is the most sensible choice (in unrivalled reliability) I'm leaning towards the Mini with the September release Jetta TDI still in the mix. So, any input on the Mini vs. the Mini Turbo? I drove both awhile ago and just remember the non-turbo being nice and smooth. And, green with cloth seats (green roof, too, and no racing stripes)? Yes?

[MrBlah]

the non turbo is quite a bit down on power, that's the difference

[Brad5161]

I'm a long time Honda Civic Si owner (right up until they made them out of sedans:rolleyes... still own a 92 Si) ) and in a choice between these two now I'd go with the Mini... and most likely an S. The new Si is very nice but...

Talking about resale value as some sort of plus for Honda and a minus for Mini Cooper seems odd at best.

[tenfifteen]

Unrivalled reliability? Must be back on again at Honda, because I had a '95 Civic EX that was a relative dog compared to any of the other four Hondas I owned from '92-'02 ('88, '89, '90 CRX Si, '92 Civic DX). I swear they started building in obsolescence. I mean how many repeat customers can you have when the cars are going 200k (or 450k and counting like my brother in-law's '88 CRX Si)?

Also, the MINI holds its value better than any car in its segment last I looked. Simple trip to kbb.com ought to confirm this.

[SergEG]

I'm a long time Honda Civic Si owner (right up until they made them out of sedans:rolleyes... still own a 92 Si) ) and in a choice between these two now I'd go with the Mini... and most likely an S. The new Si is very nice but...

Talking about resale value as some sort of plus for Honda and a minus for Mini Cooper seems odd at best.

Its gonna come down to the OPs preferences...I mentioned build quality as well but I guess people seem to gloss over the problems the Mini has had with that

The sedan has always been a seperate chassis and remains so....the 2 Door Si and 4 door Si share very few things

Honda has been making performance enhanced 4 door civics for quite some time....we just never get them here....until now and even then...its watered down for our market...case in point this 4 Door CTR is quite a car..of course we wont get it here..we get stuck with the Si

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=120576

http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/30/2007-honda-civic-type-r-sedan-details/

[VTECommie]

There is a lot of badmouthing Hondas in this thread and I don't like it. I drive a del sol VTEC with Koni/GC's, RE01R's on Sprint Hart CPF's and an ITR rear sway bar and I can and have beaten many Mini's at various autocross events and HPDE's. I love the Mini, no doubt about it, but it is simply stupid to say that civic's are not capable of ridiculous performance. there is a reason that no car has more wins in STS then the civic. Not to mention that I have never seen a Mini run low 9's...

[Brad5161]

There is a lot of badmouthing Hondas in this thread and I don't like it. I drive a del sol VTEC with Koni/GC's, RE01R's on Sprint Hart CPF's and an ITR rear sway bar and I can and have beaten many Mini's at various autocross events and HPDE's. I love the Mini, no doubt about it, but it is simply stupid to say that civic's are not capable of ridiculous performance. there is a reason that no car has more wins in STS then the civic. Not to mention that I have never seen a Mini run low 9's...

I've never seen an unmodified Civic do it either. Just saying. What's the budget for this tangent?
:D

[Brad5161]

Its gonna come down to the OPs preferences...I mentioned build quality as well but I guess people seem to gloss over the problems the Mini has had with that

Likely because it wasn't enough of an issue to sour the experience. It wasn't in my case.


The sedan has always been a seperate chassis and remains so....the 2 Door Si and 4 door Si share very few things

My point was that I like Si hatchbacks, not sedans.


Honda has been making performance enhanced 4 door civics for quite some time....we just never get them here....until now and even then...its watered down for our market...case in point this 4 Door CTR is quite a car..of course we wont get it here..we get stuck with the Si

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=120576

http://paultan.org/archives/2007/03/30/2007-honda-civic-type-r-sedan-details/

Okay, so the Civics that don't come here aren't an option.
:confused

[SergEG]

There is a lot of badmouthing Hondas in this thread and I don't like it. I drive a del sol VTEC with Koni/GC's, RE01R's on Sprint Hart CPF's and an ITR rear sway bar and I can and have beaten many Mini's at various autocross events and HPDE's. I love the Mini, no doubt about it, but it is simply stupid to say that civic's are not capable of ridiculous performance. there is a reason that no car has more wins in STS then the civic. Not to mention that I have never seen a Mini run low 9's...

Its just ignorance mostly....laughing at a Del Sol that makes as much power as the Supercharged S model does with the same size motor , has roughly the same dimensions yet is lighter and has a double wishbone sus shows how little the guy even knew about the Del Sol

My project car right now is the second DOHC Del Sol Ive owned and Ive owned enough EG/EKs hatchbacks to shake a stick at so I am fairly familiar with their handling

Its always makes me laugh when I hear how great minis handle as if light fwd hatches never existed before the mini lol....oh well

Anyone interested can check out this months article on the Mini in Road and Track with the new Camaro on the cover....great article and lots of Mini specific info....you may be surprised by what you read...

[:Monty:]

I had my e46 M3 for two years and just recently sold it for a new MCS. Every time I step on the gas it feels like I'm driving a car for the first time. It's a total blast. I definitely miss my M3 and there will be a new M car in my life sooner than later, but for now I absolutely love my MINI.

[Brad5161]

Its just ignorance mostly....laughing at a Del Sol that makes as much power as the Supercharged S model does with the same size motor , has roughly the same dimensions yet is lighter and has a double wishbone sus shows how little the guy even knew about the Del Sol

My project car right now is the second DOHC Del Sol Ive owned and Ive owned enough EG/EKs hatchbacks to shake a stick at so I am fairly familiar with their handling

Its always makes me laugh when I hear how great minis handle as if light fwd hatches never existed before the mini lol....oh well

Anyone interested can check out this months article on the Mini in Road and Track with the new Camaro on the cover....great article and lots of Mini specific info....you may be surprised by what you read...

Is this supposed to be about project cars, which usually have heavy modification?

[catseye]

Its just ignorance mostly....laughing at a Del Sol
it isn't the del sol I laugh at...but whatever...

....Demand is high with Mini's because high school girls love how cute they are...
Source of claim, please.....

[groovytaco]

Snot on a napkin. The Mini is for more than just giggling high school girls.

[SergEG]

it isn't the del sol I laugh at...but whatever...

Source of claim, please.....

Sure...you can take this excerpt from a comparison of hot FWD cars Road and track tested where the MS3 won...great car with huge power

The Si sedan also outscored the mini

From the editors at R&T

"but the style remains pure Mini — wide-eyed, wheels at the corners, a huge greenhouse and cuter than a bucket of puppies."

In case you didnt know....highschool girls LOVE puppies

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=5246

[tofunin]

biodiesel/veggie oil can save a lot of money for fuel

[catseye]

....From the editors at R&T

"but the style remains pure Mini — wide-eyed, wheels at the corners, a huge greenhouse and cuter than a bucket of puppies."

In case you didnt know....highschool girls LOVE puppies

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=15&article_id=5246

From your source:


“It was the most fun on the track,”
Which has been my point in the first place (posts #4, 10 and 16), and BTW please look back at my comments about the Honda (post 16). You will not find me knocking them.

BTW, you have failed miserably in establishing any link between it's appeal to H S girls and it's resale value. Pure bullshit. If cute were a prerequisite for resale value, perhaps they would still be making del sol's....

....The del Sol inhabits the cute end of the sports-car spectrum. Low, round and curvy, it has an endearing toylike demeanor, particularly when it's painted honda's eye-catching grasshopper green (sort of a metallic Fisher-Price)....
:lol
Nice try, please play again. However, if you want to continue this, you will be alone, for I have lost interest.

[Brad5161]

I drive about 250 miles a day and am getting tired of gas stations. Any arguments for a winner among a non-turbo Mini, Civic EX or the Jetta TDI that's coming out in September?
Thanks.

This is the original post. For some strange reason the discussion has turned to what can run a 9 second quarter, project cars, cars that were never available here and what has 500whp with boost.
:eyecrazy

If Honda had offered a 180 whp in the Civic hatchback in 1999, I would've bought one. Guess I missed it.

That's what's ridiculous (sorry) about most of this IMO. 250 mile commute, tired of gas stations and some of you are foucused on project cars. Duh. The mere mention of two brands brings out the same silly arguments. Hey, I remember seeing a third generation Civic with a mid-engine install before... does that count too?
:D

From what I've gathered in recent documentation high school girls also love performing oral sex, in addition to puppies. So I guess it ain't all bad.
:redspot

Maybe the OP was asking about project cars. I nominate a 5.0L Miata.
:D

[catseye]

....Form what I've gathered in recent documentation high school girls also love performing oral sex, in addition to puppies. So I guess it ain't all bad.
:redspot
I am glad to see that not all aspects of high school have gone downhill in the decades since my days....:thumbup:

EDIT: except I now...have a daughter.....in high school......

[Cory]

Not 100% sure, but pretty sure that my trusty VW salesperson talked me into an '09 Jetta TDI.
On a side note, both Obama and McCain suck.

[catseye]

Not 100% sure, but pretty sure that my trusty VW salesperson talked me into an '09 Jetta TDI.
You can't go wrong with the Jetta....helluva car..

On a side note, both Obama and McCain suck.
:rofl

[SergEG]

Not 100% sure, but pretty sure that my trusty VW salesperson talked me into an '09 Jetta TDI.
On a side note, both Obama and McCain suck.

This wont be your only car...is there a reason your not considering less expensive pre owned cars that get similar gas mileage?

http://www.edmunds.com/used/1999/honda/civic/11923/specs.html

For reference....this hatch gets more than 30 in the city and 37-44mpg on the highway....and you can pick one up for 3-4K