M50, 993maf, AA cam software- Intetesting Dyno!!!

[eMMMotional]

So, i've finished up my install, got her on the dyno, and have some very interesting results. I installed the M50 manifold and there sure as hell is a great differnce. i love it. Along with the manifold, i've got the 993 maf, 24# injectors, and AA cam software to run them all. The schricks are not going in. Going C30-94 supercharger instead. More on that later, though.

So, on to the interesting sheet! This was on a Mustang Dyno, btw. My stealth which ran a 12.7 at 113 dynoed 265AWHP on this dyno. So, you can see how skimpy it is. I'm not concerned with the total #, just the gains, hence why i reran on this dyno.

[eMMMotional]

The Green graph is basically stock, with:
pulleys, old conforti intake, shark injector, AA Gen 3 exhaust.
The Red graph is all of the above with:
M50 Manifold
24# injectors
993 MAF
AA Cam software (no cams in yet)

So, end result? 6HP peak gain. Not much, right? not even enough to feel. But, there is a SOLID 15ftlbs of torque gained all over the place above 4500 RPM. I love the feel. She sounds amazing, pulls so much harder, and just gains speed like never before.

Question arises, though: Why is the stock Peak HP RPM still higher than the M50 installed peak RPM? The larger manifold should have definitely raised the RPM up, and consequently raised the peak HP, as well. I'm guessing i'm running rich due to the cam software (and will be returning to stock injectors and stock ECU soon to test the theory) but does anyone else have similar results? If so, why?

Thanks
Damon

BTW, props to AA for making a software that actually GAINS low end torque with the larger manifold. Look at the 2900RPM range!

[Jrdeamicis]

Not a huge difference for all the mods. odd.

[eMMMotional]

I have new plugs coming- BRK7Es but there's currently no blow out or studdering. Runs like a top.

[pbonsalb]

Put the Shricks in so your power curve does not stop at 5500 rpm. You can use Shricks with a supercharger. The C30 is on the small side, but will still make a big power improvement.

[fsmtnbiker]

No exhaust mods?

[FUNKY MONKEY]

That is very interesting. I really like the torque curve, as I would have expected a significant dip with the M50.

I say that because I just changed to the M50 this weekend on my '96 M3, and found a significant torque loss. I was already running the Conforti Shark Injector, Conforti intake, ASC delete, stock injectors, stock exhaust and MAF. I do like the change in power delivery and sound, but I was surprised by the loss in torque at the bottom-end. I knew I would lose some, but didn't figure it would be that noticeable. Regardless, I prefer this more progressive power delivery, which feels more "natural" to me. Before, the bottom-end torque was intoxicating, but just felt strange to my ol' hotrod 4-cylinder bones. The super-strong bottom end felt artificial, in relation to throttle input, then faded away to a somewhat anemic top end. Everything's a compromise.

I am tempted to try the AA software, as I am planning on a reflash for cat delete and air pump, but am curious to see if there is truly a difference in the mapping between the Conforti and the AA. If I could find the missing torque, it would be PERFECT!

Keep us posted on your progress, and thank you for sharing.

Marcus

[Eric98Sedan]

Regardless, I prefer this more progressive power delivery, which feels more "natural" to me. Before, the bottom-end torque was intoxicating, but just felt strange to my ol' hotrod 4-cylinder bones. The super-strong bottom end felt artificial, in relation to throttle input, then faded away to a somewhat anemic top end. Everything's a compromise.

Wow bro! You've got a way with words. That sentence sums up my feelings about these motors perfectly!!

Couldn't have said it better:buttrock

[GG///M3]

Put the Shricks in so your power curve does not stop at 5500 rpm. You can use Shricks with a supercharger. The C30 is on the small side, but will still make a big power improvement.

+1

[eMMMotional]

Thanks for the inputs, guys. As some of you stated, it is really curious why the peak HP RPM actually DROPPED with the M50 install. I can't tell you if the reason why the low-end TQ remained is due to the software, the 993 maf, or the new 4" K&N (likely a little bit of all), but the car feels just sweet. I do want more top end, though, as it is still dropping off. So, where's my top-end that everyone is so psyched about?

I want to change the vanos, so i could install the schricks at that time, but by then, i'll already have the C30 installed. The extra 15WHP is not worth the $950 i could get for the cams.

BTW, to the poster asking about exhaust mods, yes, i've got an AA Gen 3 cat back. Stock cat, stock headers, though. Anyone got a set of Euro headers for sale/trade?:stickoutt

[genesismachine]

Congrats on the mods, but aren't stock M3's pushing 190-200hp to the ground? With that list of mods, I would expect you to be in the 220 range... Someone please correct me if I'm wrong

[Eric98Sedan]

Congrats on the mods, but aren't stock M3's pushing 190-200hp to the ground? With that list of mods, I would expect you to be in the 220 range... Someone please correct me if I'm wrong

Re-read the first post for the answer to your question.

[eMMMotional]

Congrats on the mods, but aren't stock M3's pushing 190-200hp to the ground? With that list of mods, I would expect you to be in the 220 range... Someone please correct me if I'm wrong

mustang dynos are inherently stingy. This one in particular is about 15-20% lower than dynojet #s, which would make this about 230-240RWHP on a dynojet. The point of this, though, was not to compare overall peak #s but rather compare the gains, what all dynos should be used for.

Can someone from AA chime in on some specifics of their tuning which might lead to why the torque dies off similar to stock with such an increase in airflow?

Hopefully, within the next week or two i can get my WB O2 hooked up to check what's going on with A/F.

[Zubehor]

Well we would need to see the AFR's too so make a more educated guess. The fact you're running the cam software and no cams definitely doesn't help. My guess is you're running really rich in the higher rpm's hence the hp/tq falling off. My stock 95 hp peaks approx at the same rpm as yours and then just levels off. I would think that if you take off the 933 HFM, injectors, and AA SW and keep the M50 you would get very similar numbers if not a little better.

Don't worry soon these insignificant gains will all be in the past. ;)

[eMMMotional]

yeah, that's just what i'm thinking, Dan. I'm about to swap back all my stock stuff to see if there's a difference. Once i get back the ECU, get another set of stock injectors, i'll do a test to see if there's a difference. I'm really curious how much the AA software and the 993maf improve low end tq vs. just a shark injector. Not all sure, though, that i'm up for another dyno at $150 a pop!

[FUNKY MONKEY]

Thank you for the kind words, Eric. I'm an old guy who spends a great deal of time analyzing performance and communicating solutions to my customers, so this sort of thing is second nature.

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who feels this way about the M3's performance. The M3 is a lovely car, but it lacks soul, in my estimation. I am working on a solution to that, as I try to give it some personality. Don't get me wrong, I love it, and enjoy every minute, but compared to my other toys, it is a bit SUV-like. After I complete my intake/exhaust changes, the suspension is next. My only problem with the entirety of these mods is that I am trying to pull back the reins, so to speak. With my other toys, I didn't have to worry about compromise. I just wanted the best handling and most responsive street package I could assemble, no matter how loud, or how rough. In the case of the M3, I do not want to compromise too much of the inherent comfort and livability of the basic package. This is a much tougher proposition, I assure you.

As for eMM, keep this thread alive, if you have the time. I am very curious as to your results. Glad to have someone pioneering the way. We'll just consider you the guinea pig. hehehhee

Have a good weekend, gents.

Marcus

[Eric98Sedan]

Thank you for the kind words, Eric. I'm an old guy who spends a great deal of time analyzing performance and communicating solutions to my customers, so this sort of thing is second nature.

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only one who feels this way about the M3's performance. The M3 is a lovely car, but it lacks soul, in my estimation. I am working on a solution to that, as I try to give it some personality. Don't get me wrong, I love it, and enjoy every minute, but compared to my other toys, it is a bit SUV-like. After I complete my intake/exhaust changes, the suspension is next. My only problem with the entirety of these mods is that I am trying to pull back the reins, so to speak. With my other toys, I didn't have to worry about compromise. I just wanted the best handling and most responsive street package I could assemble, no matter how loud, or how rough. In the case of the M3, I do not want to compromise too much of the inherent comfort and livability of the basic package. This is a much tougher proposition, I assure you.

As for eMM, keep this thread alive, if you have the time. I am very curious as to your results. Glad to have someone pioneering the way. We'll just consider you the guinea pig. hehehhee

Have a good weekend, gents.

Marcus

I hear ya man. These cars have this certain refinement to them, while still being exceptionally full of feedback, that is tough to retain once modifications begin. I struggle with the same things as you. I want the car to 'perform' better yet 'feel' the same. VERY tough to pull off. I've come full circle on my suspension in search of the ultimate blend of handling and refinement. Frustrating and expensive and my hands are sore.:buttrock

But the motors.... well, they are just plain lazy in stock trim. I'm about to pull the trigger on the M50 mani upgrade in hopes of a cure. Threads like this get me all excited and give me hope!