Considering buying a Cooper S...

[Shanarchy]

Hello everybody,

I am looking at buying a new (used) car. One of the strong contenders are the Cooper S. I'd be most likely looking at an 02. I currently am driving a 95 E36 (see sig). Anyone have experience in going from an E36 to a Mini? Their thoughts?

I have test driven one. The handling is absolutely amazing! I did feel that I need more pep. Does pulleys, intake, chip/flash make a substantial difference?

Finally, what should I be looking for when I inspect a used one? Common trouble areas?

Thanks!

[catseye]

Hello everybody,

I am looking at buying a new (used) car. One of the strong contenders are the Cooper S. I'd be most likely looking at an 02. I currently am driving a 95 E36 (see sig). Anyone have experience in going from an E36 to a Mini? Their thoughts?

I have test driven one. The handling is absolutely amazing! I did feel that I need more pep. Does pulleys, intake, chip/flash make a substantial difference?

Finally, what should I be looking for when I inspect a used one? Common trouble areas?

Thanks!
I just did the exact same thing as you. I sold my E36 M3 for a '05 MCS. I drove a lot of cars over a months period, but nothing was as much fun as a MINI, so I bought one. I did a lot of reading up, and heard all the good, bad and ugly, but after owning 6 BMW's, I thought I had a good handle on what to expect (you want a maintainance or a trouble-free car? Toyota). There were some really good sources out there, here is one:

http://www.motoringfile.com/mini-r50r53-buyers-guide/
and here is another:
http://www.minimechanic.com/

This was one of the best statements I found, which led me to search out my '05:

There’s one rule of thumb when it comes to buying a used R50 or R53 MINI: buy as new as your budget allows. As is the custom for BMW, MINI made quite a few important changes to the first generation MINI coupe throughout it’s lifecycle. The most important happening in the 2005 model year (beginning with July ‘04 builds).

I put some more stuff I found on the links page of a site I created to chronicle my experience www.minicoop.net (http://www.minicoop.net).

Go for it. I'm pretty tickled with mine, and after reading the first resource I gave you, you should have a pretty good idea on what to look for and look out for.....and the mod potential is limitless.

[mbcoops]

Yes, go for 2005 and beyond - the gearing was changed and the acceleration is much improved over the 2002-2004 models. Other things were improved, too, but none were as significant as the gearing change.

As far as trouble - take it to a mechanic and have them check out the motor mount on the passenger side of the engine bay since it goes easily. Check the service records to see what's been done. My bypass valve went fairly early on. Front control arm bushings can go quickly depending on how the car is used. There's lots of stuff, and I'm nowhere near versed on all of it.

As far as mods - yes, the 15% pulley does a nice job. I just had the Dinan boost system installed, and the pull past 4k rpm is much improved. It's not earth shattering, but it's much better. You said it best, though - these cars are about the handling.

Good luck!

mb

[catseye]

Yes, go for 2005 and beyond - the gearing was changed and the acceleration is much improved over the 2002-2004 models. Other things were improved, too, but none were as significant as the gearing change.

As far as trouble - take it to a mechanic and have them check out the motor mount on the passenger side of the engine bay since it goes easily. Check the service records to see what's been done. My bypass valve went fairly early on. Front control arm bushings can go quickly depending on how the car is used. There's lots of stuff, and I'm nowhere near versed on all of it.

As far as mods - yes, the 15% pulley does a nice job. I just had the Dinan boost system installed, and the pull past 4k rpm is much improved. It's not earth shattering, but it's much better. You said it best, though - these cars are about the handling.

Good luck!

mb
yeah, my motor mount was gone when I bought mine. Looks like this:
http://catseyeweb.com/minicoop/images/motormount.jpg
Note the black goop flowing out.....
Not a big deal, but the part is $100.......

When I started looking for cars, I wanted something that had the refined nimbleness of my E30's - light to the touch, great feedback through the pedals and steering, solid.... I think this car does this better than any other I drove, and I drove a lot...
I've had over 60 cars in 30 years of marriage, and my wife has never been real keen on any of them (not a car person, and doesn't like enthusiast type cars with their "temperaments"), but even she likes this one and thinks it's fun.

[johnzie]

how reliable are they? i was thinking about getting one. "newer as your budget allows" Is there any particular year that was good, or is every new model better than the last?

[TXMrMom]

I have a 2003 base, with 133,000 miles on it, Runs great, no issues, still gets 42MPG. Tight, still feels like new. Do the Maintenance though! Hope that helps.

[MrBlah]

I went from e30's to a E36 M3, to a mcs

I really really enjoy driving the mcs, more fun than the M3

torque steer sucks though, they need to find a way to fit all wheel drive in a mini, and keep that same light weight & good power to weight

[catseye]

I went from e30's to a E36 M3, to a mcs

I really really enjoy driving the mcs, more fun than the M3

torque steer sucks though, they need to find a way to fit all wheel drive in a mini, and keep that same light weight & good power to weight
+1 I feel the same way. Much more fun than the M3. Looking forward to the modding process....:woot:

[pipiyangtw]

I have 5 friends they all have cooper S. I am thinking to get one for myself too. Its really a fun car. =)

[SDKmann]

Wow Im glad I stumbled upon this. Im looking at a 03 MCS this week. Ive always been a big fan of the MCS but always kinda counted it out because of the FWD. So as former BMW owners how are you doing with the lack of RWD? I feel that Ill miss it too much if I go to a MINI. A few of my friends say I wont even think about it when I feel how it handles but I since Ive never driven a MINI I cant say for sure.

[MrBlah]

the only time you miss rwd is low speed cornering and takoff, 0-15mph stuff, the torque steer causes me to over correct

at any speed higher the fwd does not bother me at all, the car is like a gocart, that's how they feel

[catseye]

the only time you miss rwd is low speed cornering and takoff, 0-15mph stuff, the torque steer causes me to over correct

at any speed higher the fwd does not bother me at all, the car is like a gocart, that's how they feel
+1 and from what I hear, if it bothers you that much, there are some simple mods you can do to make it behave much more like a rwd (air pressures, rear sway bar). I'm pretty much sold on this car. It is a blast.

[SDKmann]

Thats great to hear, Im also pretty much sold, there are a few Im going to be checking out soon. Thanks for the help.

[MrBlah]

+1 and from what I hear, if it bothers you that much, there are some simple mods you can do to make it behave much more like a rwd (air pressures, rear sway bar). I'm pretty much sold on this car. It is a blast.

do tell

air pressure adjustments will help with this?


I dont think swaybars will do much for me, the biggest issue for me is straightline or nearly straight torque steer.

[BMWBurnout875]

MCS is defenitly a sweet car i just have to decide what i want between an e46 M3 coupe or 07 MCS Coupe(turbo)

[mbcoops]

The FWD took the longest for me to get used to coming from an e30. There are still times I wish it were RWD, but with a proper setup, I've gotten it to handle fairly neutrally on track.

Since you're looking, I suggest you focus on the 05-06 model years. More kinks were worked out, the gearing was changed dramatically, and the 05-06s consistently dyno higher. The stock 05-06 acceleration is commensurate with the 02-04 JCW cars.

If torque steer is an issue, you might try to find a car with an LSD. Not sure if the LSD remedies the torque steer, though. Not getting the LSD is the one regret I have about my car. But in a few years I'll add a quaife, which is regarded as superior to the Mini diff anyway.

mb



Wow Im glad I stumbled upon this. Im looking at a 03 MCS this week. Ive always been a big fan of the MCS but always kinda counted it out because of the FWD. So as former BMW owners how are you doing with the lack of RWD? I feel that Ill miss it too much if I go to a MINI. A few of my friends say I wont even think about it when I feel how it handles but I since Ive never driven a MINI I cant say for sure.

[SDKmann]

Yeah after reading the buyers guide and hanging around a couple MINI forums I figured out that the newer models were better but I dont think Ill be able to afford anything above an 03, possibly a 04 if I found one with higher miles at the right price. How can I tell if the car has a LSD or not?

[catseye]

Yeah after reading the buyers guide and hanging around a couple MINI forums I figured out that the newer models were better but I dont think Ill be able to afford anything above an 03, possibly a 04 if I found one with higher miles at the right price. How can I tell if the car has a LSD or not?
Here is how one person found out:


...I emailed MINI.Assistance@askMINIUSA.COM with the question of Can you please tell me the option that come on this car from the factory? This was the reply:

Thanks for writing MINI. I would be happy to assist you. I have listed the original options on this vehicle below

Pure Silver Metallic
Black/panther Black Leather
Cold Weather Package
Premium Package
Sport Package
head airbag
[roof and mirror caps in black
Smoker's package
Passenger seat height adjust
interior surface alloy patina
Storage package
interior lamp package
Radio control US
In-dash CD player
Radio business
CD changer preparation
Remote entry
Battery switch
auxiliary fan

If there are further questions I can assist with, please feel free to drop me an e-mail. I will be happy to lend a hand.

LET’S MOTOR
Melissa DiMaria
MINI Customer Relations and Services Representative 866.ASK.MINI (275-6464)
From what I've seen and heard, I wouldn't shy away from an '03 or '04 if it's a nice car, and you may very well be able to get a killer deal on one, seeing as people seem to place a premium on '05's and up.....

[MrBlah]

lsd does not help much at all either

[obnoxious2]

I hope you like front wheel drive. Cause some people can't adjust going from RWD to FWD

[catseye]

I hope you like front wheel drive. Cause some people can't adjust going from RWD to FWD
I know this to be true in a lot of cases, but from what I understand from those who should know, these cars are very adjustable, and can be set up to behave with a great deal of neutrality. It has been described to me as being "the most rear-wheel-drive front-wheel-drive car out there".... I'll find out for myself as time and $ allow. Personally, I'm finding the whole fwd/rwd thing to be a bit overblown.....

do tell

air pressure adjustments will help with this?.....
from Tire Rack (http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=58):
(sorry, the formatting is screwed up, but you get the idea, and link is above)....


When racing on D.O.T. approved tires air pressure is a major consideration in tuning the handling of your car, especially in cases where suspension adjustments are limited. The chart below shows some of the changes you can make to change the balance of the car.
Guide To High Performance Handling

Adjustments Decrease Understeer Decrease Oversteer
Front Tire Pressure Higher Lower
Rear Tire Pressure Lower Higher
Front Tire Section Larger Smaller
Rear Tire Section Smaller Larger
Front Wheel Camber More Negative More Positive
Rear Wheel Camber More Positive More Negative
Front Wheel Toe Toward Toe-Out Toward Toe-In
Rear Wheel Toe Toward Toe-In Toward Toe-Out
Front Wheel Caster More Positive More Negative
Front Springs Soften Stiffen
Rear Springs Stiffen Soften
Front Anti-sway Bar Soften (Thinner) Stiffen (Thicken)
Rear Anti-sway Bar Stiffen (Thicker) Soften (Thinner)
Weight Distribution More Rearward More Forward

[MrBlah]

none of that really affects torque steer though, I'm not having oversteer/understeer issues

I'm having over correct issues, exaggerated by the torque steer, if I have the sport mode off it's not as bad, but then throttle response sucks

I wish there was a sport mode for throttle response only

[catseye]

none of that really affects torque steer though, I'm not having oversteer/understeer issues

I'm having over correct issues, exaggerated by the torque steer, if I have the sport mode off it's not as bad, but then throttle response sucks

I wish there was a sport mode for throttle response only
ah, I misunderstood. No, tire pressures won't help there....

[hkamsir]

Thank you for all the informative on MC. I bought 02 MCS yesterday with 73k miles, loved it. I am using MCS for commuting daily. I have no service record on the car, wondering if anyone can recommend a good mechanic shop for Mini? Have anyone remove the racing stips from the hood? I have a black racing bonnet on the hood, and wondering how hard to remove it. THX

[catseye]

Thank you for all the informative on MC. I bought 02 MCS yesterday with 73k miles, loved it. I am using MCS for commuting daily. I have no service record on the car, wondering if anyone can recommend a good mechanic shop for Mini? Have anyone remove the racing stips from the hood? I have a black racing bonnet on the hood, and wondering how hard to remove it. THX
Outstanding!! Wear it in good health!! :thumbup:

With regards to the stripes, I hear some use a hair dryer to soften the glue, others use dental floss, then 3M adhesive remover for the residue. Some say a heat gun works, others say it's too hot and can blister the paint. I would heed that advice.....

Wherever you are, I would say that your local MINI forum would be a good place to find a mechanic.. here's where to find your local forum (http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=98)

[Brad5161]

Shortly after picking up my 2000 Z3 Coupe, we got a 2002 MCS for my wife. Both cars are big fun. Hers is loaded, has the navigation system and so far in 1 1/2 years has suffered two easily fixed problem and one ongoing on. A headlight washer broke and while it's not really needed we fixed it anyway (bought the part and I installed it). The main engine belt broke and that had to be replaced.

The ongong problem is windshields Ours has been very susceptible to whatever the road throws at it. We haven't bothered replacing it after the first time because it almost immediately got another long crack, then some star chips, then another crack. Haven't seen any promising remedies for this yet.

Performance is great IMO, fuel economy, considering how I put my foot into it, is also great. There's an amazing amount of legroom up front. We'd definitely buy one again and wouldn't hesitate to get an '02. After seeing my wife's car, a couple of her co-workers bought them too.

[SDKmann]

Good to hear, if the windsheild was your biggest problem so far I think I could handle that. Nice Z3 BTW. I'd like to be in a MCS by the time it warms up but Ill have to wait and see what the finances say about that. I'm still a bit worried about the RWD to FWD transition but I think that could be remedied with another cheap 318. After looking around here and on other sites though I think the benefits of the MINI far outweigh any negatives.

[Brad5161]

Good to hear, if the windsheild was your biggest problem so far I think I could handle that. Nice Z3 BTW. I'd like to be in a MCS by the time it warms up but Ill have to wait and see what the finances say about that. I'm still a bit worried about the RWD to FWD transition but I think that could be remidied with another cheap 318. After looking around here and on other sites though I think the benefits of the MINI far outweigh any negatives.


To be as small as it is the car has an extremely solid road feel. Almost makes you want to pull some of those "The Italian Job" moves.
:cool

[mbcoops]

Shortly after picking up my 2000 Z3 Coupe, we got a 2002 MCS for my wife. Both cars are big fun. Hers is loaded, has the navigation system and so far in 1 1/2 years has suffered two easily fixed problem and one ongoing on. A headlight washer broke and while it's not really needed we fixed it anyway (bought the part and I installed it). The main engine belt broke and that had to be replaced.

The ongong problem is windshields Ours has been very susceptible to whatever the road throws at it. We haven't bothered replacing it after the first time because it almost immediately got another long crack, then some star chips, then another crack. Haven't seen any promising remedies for this yet.

Performance is great IMO, fuel economy, considering how I put my foot into it, is also great. There's an amazing amount of legroom up front. We'd definitely buy one again and wouldn't hesitate to get an '02. After seeing my wife's car, a couple of her co-workers bought them too.


Glad you're enjoying it! Lots of BMW folk get these cars and are very impressed with how it performs. I'm one of them, too.

mb

[verygq]

Yeah, I'm def one of those people . . .

Talked my ex into one (well, I talked her into getting inside it and after the test drive she had to have it)

If I were in the market to spend 30K on something I'd def go hunt down a Cooper Works

[Brad5161]

Good to hear, if the windsheild was your biggest problem so far I think I could handle that. Nice Z3 BTW. I'd like to be in a MCS by the time it warms up but Ill have to wait and see what the finances say about that. I'm still a bit worried about the RWD to FWD transition but I think that could be remedied with another cheap 318. After looking around here and on other sites though I think the benefits of the MINI far outweigh any negatives.


Just had a fender bender in the Z3 Coupe and found out I could go to a $0 deductible on glass breakage/theft/vandalism/ etc. on the MCS for a whopping $12/yr. Did it on all the cars.

[catseye]

Just had a fender bender in the Z3 Coupe and found out I could go to a $0 deductible on glass breakage/theft/vandalism/ etc. on the MCS for a whopping $12/yr. Did it on all the cars.
Me too. I seem to be a debris magnet. I have busted at least 1 windshield in almost every car I've ever owned. The $0 deductible is a no-brainer...

[fabster760]

i have an 02 MCS i just put up for sale. hands down one of the best cars i have woned among some e36's and e46's... im only selling it because i am moving out and i need to get some cash. i hate to see it go. but good luck with you search and you will find out, the MINI community is prolly the nicest group of people out there!

[auto_pilot]

I just traded in my E36M3 Auto for 2008 Mini Cooper S...

Don't expect the stock MCS to pull like your M3...Even with my Auto M3, power was linear, direct, and very smooth. The Mini on the other hand is "punchier" and but not as quick. The stock MCS is not a slow car by any means, but it is not going to have the "freight train" pull of your M3. Now...if you add a few ECU upgrade/flash, CAI and CAT back exhaust..then things may get more interesting. Though if your M3 is modded...it won't be a fair comparison. I feel it most in Highway speeds when passing people. In my M, I pass with no problem, in my MCS the power is not the same. However, in city street driving, the MCS is plenty quick to dart you around in and out of traffic...So I'd give the edge to the M3.

In terms of handling, my M3 was very steady on high speed sweeping turns. Very planted, and very stable. Once my M3 was on a line, nothing could disturb it. My MCS is good too, but not like the M3. It is a little more twitchier at higher speeds. However, when driving in the city, the MCS was very nimble, no body roll...and acted very much like a go kart. Mind you my M was stock suspension, so I did the feel the body roll a bit when driving through the street aggressively. To sum it up, under 50 the MCS is better...over 50 mph the M3 is better...Ride feel is about the same, with the MINI being a bit stiffer. But that could be due to the run flats though. Mind you I don't have the Sport suspension on my MINI, but if I added a thicker rear sway bar and summer performance tires, the handling characteristics come a live even more. I can't wait to switch that out, and buy regular non-run flat tires. Both of these mods, should reduce the torque steer...I've never experienced it before now, and I was taken off guard by it. But like anything, you learn to drive a different way.

In stock form for both cars, I say E36 M3 is better. It just does all things a little better than the MCS. However, with a few go-fast mods, the MCS will be close to my stock M3 in acceleration; and some upgraded suspension parts, I think MCS will do just as well...and alll at 30+mpg.

All in all...not a bad trade.

[detroit635csi]

Hey guys thought i would chime in as well. Im looking for a new DD, so i test drove a chile red 02 mcs manual today.. it was killer...
i know they are reliable enough for me. But i had a question about adding a 15% or a 17% pulley. I know with the pulley you should get the smaller belt, but do you really need the puller tool its like 120 bux, seems like that is where they get ya. Im pretty good with cars and my dad is a master tech and has been for 35 years.. so installs arent really a problem...

also would i need injectors to go with the pulley?

well thanks guys, ive been around these forums alot with my 635 and it is looking like i'll have a mcs in the next 2 weeks or so (crosses fingers) so i look forward to getting to know the mini group on here as well
Thanks again!

-Andrew

[catseye]

Hey guys thought i would chime in as well. Im looking for a new DD, so i test drove a chile red 02 mcs manual today.. it was killer...
i know they are reliable enough for me. But i had a question about adding a 15% or a 17% pulley. I know with the pulley you should get the smaller belt, but do you really need the puller tool its like 120 bux, seems like that is where they get ya. Im pretty good with cars and my dad is a master tech and has been for 35 years.. so installs arent really a problem...

also would i need injectors to go with the pulley?

well thanks guys, ive been around these forums alot with my 635 and it is looking like i'll have a mcs in the next 2 weeks or so (crosses fingers) so i look forward to getting to know the mini group on here as well
Thanks again!

-Andrew
From what I gather, the puller is not an absolute necessity, but if you don't have it, by the time you are done, you will wish you did, and the $120 will seem like a bargain. If you look on the local MINI forums, you should be able to get a used one or borrow one locally. OTOH, with both of yours experience, it might not be as big a deal.

[detroit635csi]

thanks!

yeah i need to try and get the information for the local mini group, i know there is one in the area, they have meets at the dealer where im looking to buy my car..

[detroit635csi]

just realized that Detroit Tuned is less than a mile away, and the owner/main installer gives sweet deals to people on the michigan mini forum... FTW!!

[catseye]

just realized that Detroit Tuned is less than a mile away, and the owner/main installer gives sweet deals to people on the michigan mini forum... FTW!!
bingo! :thumbup:

[detroit635csi]

ok just got back from the dealer

just put a deposit down on a 2002 chili red mini cooper s with sport package and leather!

[Xymox]

ok just got back from the dealer

just put a deposit down on a 2002 chili red mini cooper s with sport package and leather!

You best look over your car and read through these two threads very carefully.

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78629
http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73527

[catseye]

You best look over your car and read through these two threads very carefully.

http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=78629
http://www.northamericanmotoring.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73527

Good idea. Don't get alarmed, but have it checked. This is a very good general read for anyone considering a MINI of various years:
http://www.motoringfile.com/mini-r50r53-buyers-guide