Let's be honest... E92 M3 vs Nissan GTR

[E36FTW]

I know a lot of people on here will probably say that the M3 is better just cuz it's a BMW, but I wonder if any of the people who ordered the new M3 have looked at the GTR. Even though the M3's base is cheaper, loaded they're about the same price, and GTR seems to outperform it all day long. Dunno just trying to see if any of you guys have looked into it and want to hear your thoughts.

[COSMOSIS]

It's prowess doesn't make up for it's homeliness.

I know you know which one I'm talking about, too. :shifty

-T-

[Kevlar]

The GTR will likely be fetching 30-70k over sticker and I doubt the GTR will have the refinement, warranty, paid service, usability, technology, comfort, convinence... of the M3.

[E36FTW]

The GTR will likely be fetching 30-70k over sticker and I doubt the GTR will have the refinement, warranty, paid service, usability, technology, comfort, convinence... of the M3.

Hmm.. I didn't think about it being marked up, but is the M3 not gonna get marked up as well? Usability? Are you kidding? That car is AWD and was literally designed to be driven year round in any location in any kind of weather. But ya the M3 has the advantage in probably most of the other categories haha :lol. I think it will be interesting to see how Nissan tries out luxury on a high end level.

[SilverBeam]

Ooo are we going to sit around and compare cars that no one has even driven yet? What fun :)

The M3 will probably be half the price as the GT-R with the mark up Kevlar is talking about. So on price the M3 will win. The GT-R. I feel will more likely be compared with the likes of the 911 and the R8 with the price it is going to be, its engine, and its AWD.

[addnon]

You're dreaming if you think the GTR will be sold for under 100 grand.

[typeS4]

M3 for me.

[eisenb11]

M3 for me, I want to drive a car, not something that looks like it came out of a video game.

[Codeman]

Well if you're asking on here, MOST people will say the BMW is better.

If you ask on nissanforums.com, MOST people will say the Nissan is better.

You have your answer.

[addnon]

Well if you're asking on here, MOST people will say the BMW is better.

If you ask on nissanforums.com, MOST people will say the Nissan is better.

You have your answer.

Better at what?

[bluemoon2222]

Gtr

[Just Blaze]

You're dreaming if you think the GTR will be sold for under 100 grand.

I've been told by a dealer in person that I could buy one for MSRP.

[SilverBeam]

I've been told by a dealer in person that I could buy one for MSRP.

Because dealers never lie, right?

[Garrett M]

Why would we compare two totally different cars? Just apples and oranges man; c'mon use you noggin.

[FierySphere]

Well if you want an answer to your question, pick up a copy of the latest 'Top Gear' magazine. They compare the Audi R8 to the GT-R.
They love the GT-R, but pick the Audi R8 since it *requires* a driver. The GT-R will be mega.

As for pricing: the official pricing is $69k or $71K depending on trim level. There are 691 Nissan dealers who have paid $25K for the luxury of selling at least one GT-R. Most get 2, but with some dealer trading some could get as many as 5 (think Desert Nissan in Vegas who sell as many cars in a day as some sell in a year. Well almost).
The dealer markup will be at least $10K. Makes no sense not to. Some dealers are putting theirs straight on eBay. Some have sold theirs at $50K over already. But of course haven't seen the money yet ...

[hec325]

I read about dealers marking them up to 130k....

[obnoxious2]

http://www.topgear.com/content/features/stories/2007/12/stories/12/1.html

Another great review by topgear

[E36FTW]

Why would we compare two totally different cars? Just apples and oranges man; c'mon use you noggin.

Are you kidding? I see comparisons daily on here between the M3 and the RS4, and if you ask me, I think the GTR is a hell of a lot more like the M3 than the RS4 is. The only common place is that Audi is more like BMW. But the M3 and the GTR are both high-performance 2+2 seaters, making the same ballpark in power and MSRP are priced in the same range.


I read about dealers marking them up to 130k....

That's ridiculous... but I could see it happening.

Curiosity, why are the E92 M3's not going to be marked up? Is it because BMW will supply the dealerships with an abundance of M3's? I don't understand the whole system myself but maybe it's the same reason that Z06's have virtually no mark up, but the GT500's are marked up anywhere from $10k-20k. :confused

[SilverBeam]

I'm sure the M3 will be marked up, but it won't be 30-50K.

[///Mr. Three]

Depends on what happends with overall BMW sales and the local demographic that the dealer resides in. We are not going to mark our M3s up 1 dollar.

[zen]

GTR is an overall better performance car.

[tsweers89]

just think with the money you save buying the m3 you can put it into mods

[///Mr. Three]

I would imagine there really is not going to be too much in the way of a serious mod market for the new M3 for some time.

[oldMcR]

just think with the money you save buying the m3 you can put it into mods

or a Z06. :redspot

[LBMotoring]

GTR.

There is no contest.

[joerodd]

at msrp there is no comparison. the GTR.

[oldMcR]

at msrp there is no comparison. the GTR.


but which one will be faster with my PSP2? should i break down and buy an X-Box?

[abradic]

The GTR will likely be fetching 30-70k over sticker and I doubt the GTR will have the refinement, warranty, paid service, usability, technology, comfort, convinence... of the M3.

Well, don't worry about the service portion. Nissan has specific details on the GT-R. Read from Automotive News which is a newspaper that dealerships use and is like the Wallstreet Journal of the automotive world.

No GT-R's will be sold on the phone, only off the floor. Any GT-R buyer must be greeted by the manager and general manager. In order to qualify as a store that can sell the GT-R, you must invest $25,000 in an alignment machine that is specific to that car only. There are other special tooling that are required, all must be covered by that store. There are certain procedures for dealing with any GT-R customer both on the phone and in the store, and the managers are directly responsible. The ace technician from service will go to a 1 week course for the GT-R, which if you think about it, is also a big investment on the dealership to lose their best person for a week. Nissan actually wanted them in Japan for 4 weeks initially, but settled on 1 week. That will be the ONLY technician who can touch the GT-R, nobody else. If that technician is on vacation, sick, or not at work the day a GT-R is brought in, Nissan North America will immediately dispatch a qualified tech to that facility.

So there is major training for the technician who will touch the car, and major training for the contact people, and I can only imagine the surveys and attention from Nissan themselves. In the words of the article, Nissan will be sure to treat the GT-R buyer as someone exclusive. Oh, and the engine requires adjustments every year, all covered under warranty. I have no doubt they will take care of GT-R buyers, and any dealership that is stupid enough to cut corners...well, Nissan is having an audit to every store signed up. You don't conform, you don't get the car.

As for the comparison of E92 vs GT-R, it's really silly. What are we comparing, articles and other people's opinions who have bias because either BMW or Nissan contributes $$$. Here is what it will be. If you want a hard core sports car, the GT-R will run circles around the M3 and kick it's ass in every way imaginable. There is no performance stat the M3 will come close in. If you want a fun car that gives you a little more refinement and luxury while thrilling you, then buy the M3. Not everyone wants that hardcore car. The GT-R will be a nice car with luxury features, just not as much as the M3. The M3 will be fun and sporty, just not like the GT-R.

When I read how the M3 is better because it's has 'soul', 'personality', 'a nicer interior', it's just plain BS. The M3 has a nicer interior than a Ferrari, I never heard a Ferrari owner complain. It's interior is nicer than the 911's, yet no complaints. The GT-R is the affordable supercar, and true sports car. The fact that the interior is as nice as they made it is a great plus, but the purpose is to kick ass.

BTW, seeing the GT-R in person at the autoshow, the car is sexy! The interior is not like a 7 series or Lexus, but it's not worse than a 3 series either. Nicer leather perhaps in the 3 series, but then the GT-R is using racing seats. On the dash board, it's the same crap. They both use plastic, neither is leather stitched. The 5 series is not exactly plush either in comparison to Mercedes and Lexus.

[thedaddy]

GTR.................again.

[abradic]

One final thought...if the GT-R had come out, but it was a BMW GT-R, this board would be going nuts about how BMW rules, they're better than Porsche. They would champion the car and say the interior is great, it's better than the E36, and it was smart by BMW to save a little money there since this is supposed to be a hardcore sports car. It would be an epitomy, but, because someone other than BMW was capable of building a great car then the BS flies. The fact that it's from Japan makes the pile that much bigger. It's a great car, and the mod potential on that motor is going to be ridiculous. Carlos Ghosn (Nissan CEO) has said in articles they left room on the table because they know people will tune them. They will be getting 600-700 hp quickly, and the engine internals are capable of handling that and more. Nissan already plans to launch a special 530 hp version.

[NightShade]

GTR obviously.


And c'mon, lets be slightly more sane here.....marked up 30-70k? I could see 10 or 20k, with 30 at the most not being too far out of possibility, but if you're willing to pay anymore, you might as well just wait until things stabilize, if not get another car...just imo

[oldMcR]

Well, don't worry about the service portion. Nissan has specific details on the GT-R. Read from Automotive News which is a newspaper that dealerships use and is like the Wallstreet Journal of the automotive world.

No GT-R's will be sold on the phone, only off the floor. Any GT-R buyer must be greeted by the manager and general manager. In order to qualify as a store that can sell the GT-R, you must invest $25,000 in an alignment machine that is specific to that car only. There are other special tooling that are required, all must be covered by that store. There are certain procedures for dealing with any GT-R customer both on the phone and in the store, and the managers are directly responsible. The ace technician from service will go to a 1 week course for the GT-R, which if you think about it, is also a big investment on the dealership to lose their best person for a week. Nissan actually wanted them in Japan for 4 weeks initially, but settled on 1 week. That will be the ONLY technician who can touch the GT-R, nobody else. If that technician is on vacation, sick, or not at work the day a GT-R is brought in, Nissan North America will immediately dispatch a qualified tech to that facility.

So there is major training for the technician who will touch the car, and major training for the contact people, and I can only imagine the surveys and attention from Nissan themselves. In the words of the article, Nissan will be sure to treat the GT-R buyer as someone exclusive. Oh, and the engine requires adjustments every year, all covered under warranty. I have no doubt they will take care of GT-R buyers, and any dealership that is stupid enough to cut corners...well, Nissan is having an audit to every store signed up. You don't conform, you don't get the car.

As for the comparison of E92 vs GT-R, it's really silly. What are we comparing, articles and other people's opinions who have bias because either BMW or Nissan contributes $$$. Here is what it will be. If you want a hard core sports car, the GT-R will run circles around the M3 and kick it's ass in every way imaginable. There is no performance stat the M3 will come close in. If you want a fun car that gives you a little more refinement and luxury while thrilling you, then buy the M3. Not everyone wants that hardcore car. The GT-R will be a nice car with luxury features, just not as much as the M3. The M3 will be fun and sporty, just not like the GT-R.

When I read how the M3 is better because it's has 'soul', 'personality', 'a nicer interior', it's just plain BS. The M3 has a nicer interior than a Ferrari, I never heard a Ferrari owner complain. It's interior is nicer than the 911's, yet no complaints. The GT-R is the affordable supercar, and true sports car. The fact that the interior is as nice as they made it is a great plus, but the purpose is to kick ass.

BTW, seeing the GT-R in person at the autoshow, the car is sexy! The interior is not like a 7 series or Lexus, but it's not worse than a 3 series either. Nicer leather perhaps in the 3 series, but then the GT-R is using racing seats. On the dash board, it the same crap. They both use plastic, neither is leather stitched. The 5 series is not exactly plush either in comparison to Mercedes and Lexus.

actually an ugly chic is kinda like an 08 Z06. afforadable supercar that puts out. not to mention low maintennance.

GTR = low production whiz bang car that most of us will never see let alone ever drive. prom queens rarely ever turn out to be all they are made out to be.

that was some funny shit abradic, you shoulda left it in your post.

[abradic]

actually an ugly chic is kinda like an 08 Z06. afforadable supercar that puts out. not to mention low maintennance.

GTR = low production whiz bang car that most of us will never see let alone ever drive. prom queens rarely ever turn out to be all they are made out to be.

that was some funny shit abradic, you shoulda left it in your post.

LOL, yeah, but then I read it and thought I better not come off offensive:)

I think of the ugly chic as an SRT 4, all the excuses that it's better than the M3, or any other true sports car, but in the end just a Neon on 'roids! The Vette is the one who got surgery. Looks good, runs great, but the foundation is still a bit away from being all there.

[Just Blaze]

Because dealers never lie, right?

What would he gain by lying? It's not like I'm going to go in with my $70K in cash and be like "oh, it's $120K now? Lemme run to the bank next door."

[oldMcR]

LOL, yeah, but then I read it and thought I better not come off offensive:)

I think of the ugly chic as an SRT 4, all the excuses that it's better than the M3, or any other true sports car, but in the end just a Neon on 'roids! The Vette is the one who got surgery. Looks good, runs great, but the foundation is still a bit away from being all there.


well my friend, when the GT-R actually hits the pavement, we shall speak again. while MotorTrend decided to claim the GT-R was a Z06 killer, the road test comparo has yet to actually occur. cheers :devillook

[oldMcR]

I've been told by a dealer in person that I could buy one for MSRP.

from an investment perspective you should jump all over this deal.

[abradic]

well my friend, when the GT-R actually hits the pavement, we shall speak again. while MotorTrend decided to claim the GT-R was a Z06 killer, the road test comparo has yet to actually occur. cheers :devillook

Yes, it will be cool to read and see vids. I have my mega million ticket, maybe I'll be able to put up a vid:D

[ripp]

Everyone here will own the M so give me the GTR.

[Serious]

like the supra... you arent even going to be able to drive the r35 GTR around without every rice rocket trying to challenge you and cutting you off/tailgating etc.

Ask supra/nsx owners... they will tell you.

For that reason and some others I love the m3.

But the GTR is going to be monumental performance wise, i have alot of respect for it.

[Lezard]

One final thought...if the GT-R had come out, but it was a BMW GT-R, this board would be going nuts about how BMW rules, they're better than Porsche. They would champion the car and say the interior is great, it's better than the E36, and it was smart by BMW to save a little money there since this is supposed to be a hardcore sports car. It would be an epitomy, but, because someone other than BMW was capable of building a great car then the BS flies. The fact that it's from Japan makes the pile that much bigger. It's a great car, and the mod potential on that motor is going to be ridiculous. Carlos Ghosn (Nissan CEO) has said in articles they left room on the table because they know people will tune them. They will be getting 600-700 hp quickly, and the engine internals are capable of handling that and more. Nissan already plans to launch a special 530 hp version.

No truer post has ever been posted here! This board would have been going nuts years ago on the rumor that this car was in production!

[Sebaflex]

Corvette ZR1 > all

[knight2424]

I feel that those two cars are aimed at 2 different markets.

[E36FTW]

well my friend, when the GT-R actually hits the pavement, we shall speak again. while MotorTrend decided to claim the GT-R was a Z06 killer, the road test comparo has yet to actually occur. cheers :devillook

From all the reviews I've seen (which most mags/shows have driven it by now) this thing will kick the Z06's ass left and right. In fact, it wasn't even designed to compete with the Z06, but the Porsche Turbo instead, for the price of a Z06.

Oh and about ordering them: there are already 2200 of these bad boys pre-ordered. So I doubt that those could have been marked up since I'm sure that was done directly thru Nissan.

[M III Pilot]

Time will tell.......I just wish all these awsome cars weren't so expensive so I could actually own one.

[E36FTW]

Time will tell.......I just wish all these awsome cars weren't so expensive so I could actually own one.

Couldn't agree more.... :(

[trek1500]

M3 for me..finesse is what it's all about!

[Roguls]

From all the reviews I've seen (which most mags/shows have driven it by now) this thing will kick the Z06's ass left and right. In fact, it wasn't even designed to compete with the Z06, but the Porsche Turbo instead, for the price of a Z06.

Oh and about ordering them: there are already 2200 of these bad boys pre-ordered. So I doubt that those could have been marked up since I'm sure that was done directly thru Nissan.


Huh? Z06 outperforms the Porsche 911 turbo (or at very least matches it).

[Eurospec328]

eh.. i prefer RWD rather than AWD.
and to me the M3's an overall better car to me.

+1 on the M3

[joerodd]

but which one will be faster with my PSP2? should i break down and buy an X-Box?

is that to mean that you think i am only saying that cuz im a ricer that gets all my info from video games. I can assure you that you are sorely mistaken. The Z06 and GT-R debate is an old one from my previous forum. The M3 will get its door blown off by the both of them. By almost a full sec in the quarter for both. So you better stick with your PSP2 so you can spend that extra cash on your m trying to catch up.

[mossel]

This is like comparing blondes vs brunettes, people just like diffrent things.

[ViniZaoD]

You're comparing a 2 seater track god against a more refined and balanced vehicle. The GTR is in Z06 territory. That is not a DD in any way.

A more comparable car to the E92 ///M is the C63 ///AMG.

[thedaddy]

How is the GTR not a DD car?

[3forme]

I'm as loyal a BMW fan as there is, but you have to tip your cap to Nissan. Ever since they started copying the BMW 2002 (or earlier?) with the Datsun 510 back in the late 60s, they've had some of the same DNA in their genes as our Bayrerische Freunde in terms of a driver's focus. Rear wheel drive cars made for drivers. (I know...flame away...I've driven both a 1970 2002 and a 1969 510 and both are fantastic to drive in their own way).

The Nissan Z series lost it's way with the 300 (late 80s?) and was banished for years to purgatory. When the 350Z returned, it was a pure 2 seat, rear wheel drive machine built for drivers. Big ass breaks, 300HP, low profile, great looks. A bit ass-y in sharp turns, but if you like being able to kick out the back-side when making 90 degree turns just for fun, it's great. (I wore out the freeways in Vegas with mine). It will not run a road course like a similarly priced BMW, but very fun to drive. I would imagine the GTR will be to the M3 as the 350Z is to the 335i in its own way.

I've owned both a 350Z (2005 Anniversary) and a 2007 335i and I wish I could own both at the same time (freakin' wives). One for when I'm feeling like I'm young, dumb and full of you-know-what and one for when I'm in the mood to drive like I'm on a freakin' rail and own curves like a German pimp.

Man...I need to cut down on the coffee and really bad metaphors...

[thedaddy]

I'm as loyal a BMW fan as there is, but you have to tip your cap to Nissan. Ever since they started copying the BMW 2002 (or earlier?) with the Datsun 510 back in the late 60s, they've had some of the same DNA in their genes as our Bayrerische Freunde in terms of a driver's focus. Rear wheel drive cars made for drivers. (I know...flame away...I've driven both a 1970 2002 and a 1969 510 and both are fantastic to drive in their own way).

The Nissan Z series lost it's way with the 300 (late 80s?) and was banished for years to purgatory. When the 350Z returned, it was a pure 2 seat, rear wheel drive machine built for drivers. Big ass breaks, 300HP, low profile, great looks. A bit ass-y in sharp turns, but if you like being able to kick out the back-side when making 90 degree turns just for fun, it's great. (I wore out the freeways in Vegas with mine). It will not run a road course like a similarly priced BMW, but very fun to drive. I would imagine the GTR will be to the M3 as the 350Z is to the 335i in its own way.

I've owned both a 350Z (2005 Anniversary) and a 2007 335i and I wish I could own both at the same time (freakin' wives). One for when I'm feeling like I'm young, dumb and full of you-know-what and one for when I'm in the mood to drive like I'm on a freakin' rail and own curves like a German pimp.

Man...I need to cut down on the coffee and really bad metaphors...

Do you really think the 335 corners like it is on rails?

[3forme]

Mine does. I have the sport suspension and I have tried my best to get the rear end out in sharp turns for fun and the car just goes where I tell it without asking questions. I turned off the assist stuff one day (a dry cool day) and ran the Lime Kiln / Snickersville run in Loudoun Co, Va and it was like a mind meld: it went where I wanted to go with no questions asked.

Now...I don't push it like that crazy guy from Top Gear since I'm not a pro driver, but I'll do a pretty decent curve at 70 or 75. The car just digs in. My 350z would put its back-side out at 35 just turning left at an intersection if I got on it.

On an unrelated performance note, I got my 335 to bark tires *downshifting* when I came up on an unsuspecting car after coming off a long run on a straight-away. 4th to 3rd. The car is unreal given it's bone stock except the winter performance tires/wheels on it right now.

[MotorWerkz]

Do you really think the 335 corners like it is on rails?
At least it feels safer than 350z. 350z feels like it always want to go sideways on hot corner, maybe because its rear is too light.

It's a good car for drifting.


Now...I don't push it like that crazy guy from Top Gear since I'm not a pro driver, but I'll do a pretty decent curve at 70 or 75. The car just digs in. My 350z would put its back-side out at 35 just turning left at an intersection if I got on it.

+1

350z is too light on the rear end, making it easy to go sideways.

[MotorWerkz]

How is the GTR not a DD car?
If you force it to be a DD, it can be a DD. even McLaren F1 can be a DD if you want it to.

[ViniZaoD]

If you force it to be a DD, it can be a DD. even McLaren F1 can be a DD if you want it to.
It's cramped, you can't put your buds into it, and running up 100K on that monster would probably slaughter it.

[Just Blaze]

You're comparing a 2 seater track god against a more refined and balanced vehicle. The GTR is in Z06 territory. That is not a DD in any way.

A more comparable car to the E92 ///M is the C63 ///AMG.

The GT-R isn't a 2 seater.

[E36FTW]

Ya are you guys nuts about the GTR not being a DD? It is a 2+2 seater that's prolly a lot roomier than Porsche's rear seats, and it was built around the idea of being driven daily in any climate or weather conditions by any driver. Best DD ever.

[thedaddy]

If you force it to be a DD, it can be a DD. even McLaren F1 can be a DD if you want it to.

The car will have a full interior and every function the M3 has. How is that any different from an M3, 911 or other?

It is a car. This thing will not be stripped down pseudo track machine like a 911 GT3 or something.

You guys are off base if you think it will not function like any other car when pushed.

[thedaddy]

It's cramped, you can't put your buds into it, and running up 100K on that monster would probably slaughter it.

You have sat in one?

It is a nissan. 100k will be nothing.

[thedaddy]

Mine does. I have the sport suspension and I have tried my best to get the rear end out in sharp turns for fun and the car just goes where I tell it without asking questions. I turned off the assist stuff one day (a dry cool day) and ran the Lime Kiln / Snickersville run in Loudoun Co, Va and it was like a mind meld: it went where I wanted to go with no questions asked.

Now...I don't push it like that crazy guy from Top Gear since I'm not a pro driver, but I'll do a pretty decent curve at 70 or 75. The car just digs in. My 350z would put its back-side out at 35 just turning left at an intersection if I got on it.

On an unrelated performance note, I got my 335 to bark tires *downshifting* when I came up on an unsuspecting car after coming off a long run on a straight-away. 4th to 3rd. The car is unreal given it's bone stock except the winter performance tires/wheels on it right now.

You should drive something a little more performance focused and then get back to us......like an S2000 or something. I have heard from no one that the 335 handles like it is on rails.

And for performance driving most skilled people prefer a little tail happiness.

[zen]

Mine does. I have the sport suspension and I have tried my best to get the rear end out in sharp turns for fun and the car just goes where I tell it without asking questions. I turned off the assist stuff one day (a dry cool day) and ran the Lime Kiln / Snickersville run in Loudoun Co, Va and it was like a mind meld: it went where I wanted to go with no questions asked.

Now...I don't push it like that crazy guy from Top Gear since I'm not a pro driver, but I'll do a pretty decent curve at 70 or 75. The car just digs in. My 350z would put its back-side out at 35 just turning left at an intersection if I got on it.

On an unrelated performance note, I got my 335 to bark tires *downshifting* when I came up on an unsuspecting car after coming off a long run on a straight-away. 4th to 3rd. The car is unreal given it's bone stock except the winter performance tires/wheels on it right now.

I highly doubt a ~3600 lbs. car is gonna handle like it's on rails. That title is for cars like RX8 or S2000.

[naustin]

There's more to a car than performance numbers.

[720810]

I have a feeling that within a few years the gtr will be attracting more attention and steering alot of the customers away from Audi,BMW,Porsche,and Mercedes dealerships...

A further prediction is that Ferrari,&Lamborghini numbers will be affected...

as I've read in an article about the gtr ,According to it's performance #'s this car should cost somewhere around $400k...

So in my opinion Nissan Has just raised the bar, and the rest of the world will either need to follow suit or get left behind...

this may just be the beginning of the third world war,and this time Japan has the bigger bomb!

[E36FTW]

I have a feeling that within a few years the gtr will be attracting more attention and steering alot of the customers away from Audi,BMW,Porsche,and Mercedes dealerships...

A further prediction is that Ferrari,&Lamborghini numbers will be affected...

as I've read in an article about the gtr ,According to it's performance #'s this car should cost somewhere around $400k...

So in my opinion Nissan Has just raised the bar, and the rest of the world will either need to follow suit or get left behind...

this may just be the beginning of the third world war,and this time Japan has the bigger bomb!

Very well put. I just hope I'll be able to pick one up in a few years! :buttrock

[MotorWerkz]

I have a feeling that within a few years the gtr will be attracting more attention and steering alot of the customers away from Audi,BMW,Porsche,and Mercedes dealerships...

LoL ... no way. Purchasing a 70K Nissan would require me to be a Nissan hard-core fanatic



A further prediction is that Ferrari,&Lamborghini numbers will be affected...

as I've read in an article about the gtr ,According to it's performance #'s this car should cost somewhere around $400k...

No way, Ferrari and Lamborghini have strong fanatics, and people who purchase that cars are not purchasing it simply because of its power, but its brand name and luxury. Everybody knows when you have a Ferrari, you are a successful man, but when you have a Nissan GT-R, you are simply a boy racer.



So in my opinion Nissan Has just raised the bar, and the rest of the world will either need to follow suit or get left behind...

Yes, Nissan has raised the bar on performance, but not class. Even if it has Zonda's performance, it won't be able to outmatch Zonda's class.



this may just be the beginning of the third world war,and this time Japan has the bigger bomb!

Nope, Japan has never had bigger bomb. Sorry. if Japan has bigger bomb (aka GT-R), then can it beat the biggest bomb out there (Mc Laren F1)? or Ferrari Enzo? Carrera GT? CLK-GTR? Zonda F? Koenigsegg CCX? 997 GT2?



LoL ... :lol

[E36FTW]

...but when you have a Nissan GT-R, you are simply a boy racer.

Yes. When you have a $70,000 car that is one of the most advanced performance machines ever to come out of a factory, you are clearly a "boy racer." :rolleyes

[720810]

how many times has nissan won overal 24 hours of lemans,daytona ect...?

just like captain kirk with a cellphone in the seventies,who doesnt have one now...

besides consider this; with what the gtr is gonna bring to the table,imagine how the other auto manufacturers will reciprocate,(although beyond most budgets)?

[oldMcR]

is that to mean that you think i am only saying that cuz im a ricer that gets all my info from video games. I can assure you that you are sorely mistaken. The Z06 and GT-R debate is an old one from my previous forum. The M3 will get its door blown off by the both of them. By almost a full sec in the quarter for both. So you better stick with your PSP2 so you can spend that extra cash on your m trying to catch up.

that is some funny stuff there bro. i don't own an M BTW. :lol

my point was as much as this is a ridiculous debate, most if not all those posting here will have a better chance of driving a GT-R on their playstations than in the real world. not to mention ever putting one on the track.

please post up some pictures when you take delivery of yours. thanks.

[oldMcR]

I have a feeling that within a few years the gtr will be attracting more attention and steering alot of the customers away from Audi,BMW,Porsche,and Mercedes dealerships...

A further prediction is that Ferrari,&Lamborghini numbers will be affected...

as I've read in an article about the gtr ,According to it's performance #'s this car should cost somewhere around $400k...

So in my opinion Nissan Has just raised the bar, and the rest of the world will either need to follow suit or get left behind...

this may just be the beginning of the third world war,and this time Japan has the bigger bomb!


now matter how you cook it, Rice will never taste like Pasta or Schnitzel.

buy Japanese if you like, just brag about it on the HonDuuuh forums OK.

[AMDdude]

Nope, Japan has never had bigger bomb. Sorry. if Japan has bigger bomb (aka GT-R), then can it beat the biggest bomb out there (Mc Laren F1)? or Ferrari Enzo? Carrera GT? CLK-GTR? Zonda F? Koenigsegg CCX? 997 GT2?



LoL ... :lol

:lol:lol you're joking right? Compare the price of a GTR to all of the above cars mentioned!!! If Nissan really wanted to make a $400k super car to compete with the likes of those cars you bet your ass they'd be able to do it... and come out on top.

[thedaddy]

now matter how you cook it, Rice will never taste like Pasta or Schnitzel.

buy Japanese if you like, just brag about it on the HonDuuuh forums OK.

Rice is actually better and more versatile than Pasta or Schnitzel.

The GTR will be a good car. Boy racers will not afford it.

Some people like myself buy cars based on performance and do not care what emblem is on it. I bought my M3 because it fit my criteria. The BMW "soul" had nothing to do with it.

[E36FTW]

Some people like myself buy cars based on performance and do not care what emblem is on it. I bought my M3 because it fit my criteria. The BMW "soul" had nothing to do with it.

Couldn't have said it better myself :buttrock

[thedaddy]

Couldn't have said it better myself :buttrock

Be careful. Being reasonable and not falling in line with fanboyism can get you flamed here.

German machinery is the best in the world and don't you forget it mister.

[Alpine torque]

:lol:lol you're joking right? Compare the price of a GTR to all of the above cars mentioned!!! If Nissan really wanted to make a $400k super car to compete with the likes of those cars you bet your ass they'd be able to do it... and come out on top.
wtf..... your praising Nissan like it's God's manufacturer

it's fucking Nissan man.... get over yourself

edit: 1) they won't make a supercar because nobody will buy it, because it has 0 class and prestige..... and that counts for atleast 50% when ballers buy a car
2) do you really think that they will come out on top, knowing they have 1/10 of the heritage and racing experience of Ferrari or Porsche??


...you're late to your Need for Speed Rice session

[Invest]

Orignally quoted from AutoBlog.com:

Motor Trend's Scott Kanemura sat down with Michizio Niikura, the president of MINE'S Motor Sports, the first aftermarket firm to get its hands on the new Nissan GT-R. The conversation centered on the roadblocks Nissan has put in place to stymie high speeds and limit modifications to the GT-R.

We've previously reported (http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/22/nissan-gt-r-recognizes-tracks-via-gps-removes-speed-limiter/) on how the GPS system fitted to the GT-R would remove the 111 mph (180 kph) speed limiter when the car arrives at a track, but according to Niikura, it will only work on pre-approved racetracks. However, the GPS sensor doesn't automatically remove the limiter by itself, it has to be manually changed by navigating through a series of menus on the GT-R's touch screen. While having to go to a Nissan-approved track is daft in its own right, it's even worse when you leave. After the track day, owners are required to head on over to a Nissan High Performance Center where a $1000 safety check is performed. Don't do it and the factory warranty is void.

Another rumor that began circulating after the Tokyo Auto Salon has also been confirmed: aftermarket wheels are out. Supposedly, all the GT-Rs on display at TAS had to be driven in on the stock rollers, jacked up and then fitted with the tuner's chosen wheels. Due to a sensor mounted on the valve stem, if the GT-R is driven with aftermarket rims, an error code is thrown on the dash. And although MINE'S has fitted a custom exhaust to their shop car, they've found that any modification to the intake system causes the ECU to go haywire.

While all these findings are draconian, GT-R owners here in the U.S. won't have to worry about the speed limiter/track day issue. Nissan has said that the GPS system won't be implemented here in the States, but the future of tuning the GT-R remains questionable.
Modify it and your warranty is out. Now go pay a Nissan tech to go to training in Japan for a week just so you'll have somebody to work on your car after you bought a K&N drop-in. Same if you want some lighter (or better looking) rims.

You're going to mod that engine for gobs of power? Right.

[E36FTW]

Modify it and your warranty is out. Now go pay a Nissan tech to go to training in Japan for a week just so you'll have somebody to work on your car after you bought a K&N drop-in. Same if you want some lighter (or better looking) rims.

You're going to mod that engine for gobs of power? Right.

Nismo is going to have bunches of mods including upgraded turbo manifolds, turbos, intakes, exhausts, the works. And I'm sure they'll have rims, besides the fact that it won't take long for them to figure out a way to get aftermarket rims on it.

[B5BAR]

While I have not driven either of these, I have had the chance to touch and sit in both. The GTR has the wow factor in outward appearance (if you are into it's styling), however going from a German interior into a Japanese is a notable change.


http://images.cardomain.net/sites/cardomain/event/2008/01/13/DAS/0/021.jpg

http://images.cardomain.net/sites/cardomain/event/2008/01/13/DAS/0/018.jpg
Images taken by myself at NAIAS 2008

Note the following is only my opinion. I found that visibility and usability of the M3 was superior in both operation and functionality, and I liked the interior materials much better in the German car. Granted my access to the Nissan was quite rushed at NAIAS, but I still noticed that I stumbled quite a bit when trying to climb in and out of the car.

The GTR was nice. Doors closed well, had good feeling seats, controls, and equipment, however it wasn't at the level of a BMW interior in my opinion.


Without driving I personally would choose the M3

[AMDdude]

wtf..... your praising Nissan like it's God's manufacturer

it's fucking Nissan man.... get over yourself

edit: 1) they won't make a supercar because nobody will buy it, because it has 0 class and prestige..... and that counts for atleast 50% when ballers buy a car
2) do you really think that they will come out on top, knowing they have 1/10 of the heritage and racing experience of Ferrari or Porsche??


...you're late to your Need for Speed Rice session

Haha don't get me wrong, I'd love to own a Ferrari but you have to give credit where it's due and Nissan managed to give us supercar like performance for the price of a luxury car. And don't get me started on the VW Beetle :rofl2, Porsche, for the love of god, was making tractors while Nissan was making cars, than they designed the 911 and used the same design every since:D

[oldMcR]

Rice is actually better and more versatile than Pasta or Schnitzel.

The GTR will be a good car. Boy racers will not afford it.

Some people like myself buy cars based on performance and do not care what emblem is on it. I bought my M3 because it fit my criteria. The BMW "soul" had nothing to do with it.

i own american and foreign vehicles. they fit my criteria. the GT-R will probably not ever fit my criteria. i may be missing out on something but as yet i am not convinced of that. if they actually become commonplace and people drive them on the roads and bring them to the track maybe my opinion will change. but untill they are out on the track every weekend with the 911's and the Z06's and the e36 M3's they are just another novelty.

my ridiculous comments were directed at the gentleman that felt Nissan was going to bring down European car makers with the GT-R. "Ferrari beware Nissan is beating down the door". please, oh please stop. i might piss myself from laughing so hard. :rolleyes

[Invest]

Nismo is going to have bunches of mods including upgraded turbo manifolds, turbos, intakes, exhausts, the works. And I'm sure they'll have rims, besides the fact that it won't take long for them to figure out a way to get aftermarket rims on it.

So they're cornering the market on their own car! I can't say I'm a fan of companies doing that, but it brings more revenue so more power to them. Not like I'll ever buy one.

[E36FTW]

So they're cornering the market on their own car! I can't say I'm a fan of companies doing that, but it brings more revenue so more power to them. Not like I'll ever buy one.

Ya I'm not saying I'm a fan of that either, just that there will be mods there until either the aftermarket scene figures it out or Nissan loosens up (no idea why they're being so anal). I don't really like Nismo/Mopar/TRD and any other manufacturer supplied performance parts.

[Lezard]

wtf..... your praising Nissan like it's God's manufacturer

edit: 1) they won't make a supercar because nobody will buy it, because it has 0 class and prestige..... and that counts for atleast 50% when ballers buy a car
2) do you really think that they will come out on top, knowing they have 1/10 of the heritage and racing experience of Ferrari or Porsche??


Actually in Japan the GT-R name has a lot of value. It is to Japan what the Corvette is to America, and the SL-class is to Germany. Of course since the GT-R nameplate is finally coming to America, not many people will know it in this country. The GT-R has been made for like 40 years.

Did anyone see that Top Gear from about 10 years ago where the GT-R defeated two Ferrari's, a Porsche, and an e36 M3 around a track? The GT-R is the real deal.

This car will be a very viable competitor to the Audi R8, and Porsche 911. I don't think it will affect the Italian's sales though. As those cars are just as much for status as they are driving enjoyment.

[brianahlers]

this is what the GTR looks like to me

http://hometown.aol.com/rufflife3628127/images/ugly%20girl.jpg

this is what the M3 looks like to me

http://images.askmen.com/galleries/model/alessandra-ambrosio/pictures/alessandra-ambrosio-picture-6.jpg


there's the answer.

[ken_vs_ryu]

It's dumb to bring up markups. But I guess if that's your only defense it's a sad situation.
The cars are not even in the same league.

[ken_vs_ryu]

Oh and the m3 better worry about the baby brother 335i before it looks at the gt-r.

[thedaddy]

wtf..... your praising Nissan like it's God's manufacturer

it's fucking Nissan man.... get over yourself

edit: 1) they won't make a supercar because nobody will buy it, because it has 0 class and prestige..... and that counts for atleast 50% when ballers buy a car
2) do you really think that they will come out on top, knowing they have 1/10 of the heritage and racing experience of Ferrari or Porsche??


...you're late to your Need for Speed Rice session

Dude you are dumb.

Class?

Prestige?

You are a marketers dream if you buy that crap. Nissan has the technical ability to build anything they want. So does Toyota. So does Subaru. If they choose not to it is a business decision.

The Japanese can build anything the Germans can it is will likely require less trips to the dealer.

[thedaddy]

i own american and foreign vehicles. they fit my criteria. the GT-R will probably not ever fit my criteria. i may be missing out on something but as yet i am not convinced of that. if they actually become commonplace and people drive them on the roads and bring them to the track maybe my opinion will change. but untill they are out on the track every weekend with the 911's and the Z06's and the e36 M3's they are just another novelty.

my ridiculous comments were directed at the gentleman that felt Nissan was going to bring down European car makers with the GT-R. "Ferrari beware Nissan is beating down the door". please, oh please stop. i might piss myself from laughing so hard. :rolleyes

It really is not that far fetched. Lexus and Infiniti made BMW and Mercedes change the whole way they do business. I guarantee you the European manufacturers are giving Nissan more credit than the fan-boy-persons here.

[thedaddy]

this is what the GTR looks like to me

http://hometown.aol.com/rufflife3628127/images/ugly%20girl.jpg

this is what the M3 looks like to me

http://images.askmen.com/galleries/model/alessandra-ambrosio/pictures/alessandra-ambrosio-picture-6.jpg


there's the answer.

It is exactly the opposite for me.

[Snork]

Is it a rule that new cars all have to be ugly these days? There's some kind of conspiracy, im sure. If only everything was like an alfa 8c.

[ViniZaoD]

You have sat in one?

It is a nissan. 100k will be nothing.

You have seen one?

Nissan is not toyota, not in the least. A car like this is probably going to have wear similar to a WRX STi, which is horrible in case you've never experienced it.

Please prove me wrong. Buy a GTR and drive your buds to White Castle with it. I'm sure they'll appreciate the room it offers.

[NightShade]

So they're cornering the market on their own car! I can't say I'm a fan of companies doing that, but it brings more revenue so more power to them. Not like I'll ever buy one.

I don't see whats so bad about it. BMW is doing it too iirc, and besides, they know the car the best, so I think it'd make more sense since most likely, the parts they offer wont void your warranty.

[ViniZaoD]

Oh by the way, a tuned R34 (still costs less than the GTR) rips a GTR in the straights and in the twisties. Now there's a good car!

[cosmos95m3]

GTR is an overall better performance car.

Agreed. Hate to say it.

[thedaddy]

You have seen one?

Nissan is not toyota, not in the least. A car like this is probably going to have wear similar to a WRX STi, which is horrible in case you've never experienced it.

Please prove me wrong. Buy a GTR and drive your buds to White Castle with it. I'm sure they'll appreciate the room it offers.

Wear like an STI?

I hate to tell you but they are incredibly durable. I DD an STI. It is the best built car I have seen. I beat the living donkey snot out of it and it does not stop.

I am cheap though and will wait for a GTR to be a few years old.

EDIT: Nissan has had at least as much success in international motorsports than Toyota.

[MPerfect]

I didn't bother reading the thread, but my .02 cents of rambling would go something like:
Why does everyone want to compare the new M3 to the GT-R? I guess it's because of the similar prices. Economically, we have to recognize that an Asian manufacturer could build a car, that was identical to any other manufacturer's car for less money. It simply comes down to manufacturing costs and countries like Japan, China and India are killing us... and the Germans.
Luckily, these two cars are not identical. In fact, they are vastly different. Think about it, the only similarities between these two cars are that they are both front engined and use a two-plus-two interior configuration. I guess you could also include that they both use strut type suspension and sport a dual clutch transmission (when the vert. comes out at least). It's a lot like comparing Apples to Oranges. Most people say that that isn't fair, but who care's if it's fair or not? We like them both, their both cars, they both have more performance than any of us really need. Let's compare them because we want to compare them!
Now if only someone, on hand, had both of them to compare...:confused

[Lezard]

Economically, we have to recognize that an Asian manufacturer could build a car, that was identical to any other manufacturer's car for less money. It simply comes down to manufacturing costs and countries like Japan, China and India are killing us... and the Germans.


Whoa, you are right about China and India, but Japan? Do you think there is cheap labor in Japan? You would be sadly mistaken if that's what you thought. Even Sony hardly makes anything in Japan because it's DRASTICALLY cheaper in China. And guess what, Japanese factory workers get paid more than BRITISH factory workers on average. Japan is one of the cleanest, most educated, industrialized countries in the world. You make it sound like a third world country. It's insulting to mention Japan in the same breath as India and China. That would be like me saying the Germany, Romania, and the Lithuania are killing us with cheap labor. See? It makes no sense!

[MPerfect]

Whoa, you are right about China and India, but Japan? Do you think there is cheap labor in Japan? You would be sadly mistaken if that's what you thought. Even Sony hardly makes anything in Japan because it's DRASTICALLY cheaper in China. And guess what, Japanese factory workers get paid more than BRITISH factory workers on average. Japan is one of the cleanest, most educated, industrialized countries in the world. You make it sound like a third world country. It's insulting to mention Japan in the same breath as India and China. That would be like me saying the Germany, Romania, and the Lithuania are killing us with cheap labor. See? It makes no sense!

Who said anything about Labor?
You're right. Japan's labor isn't that cheap. But they are incredibly adept at engineering and efficiency. Take that into account, along with economies of scale, and you get series production which is incredibly cost efficient.
Quit trying to make me look like an Ass... Ass.

[oldMcR]

Who said anything about Labor?
You're right. Japan's labor isn't that cheap. But they are incredibly adept at engineering and efficiency. Take that into account, along with economies of scale, and you get series production which is incredibly cost efficient.
Quit trying to make me look like an Ass... Ass.


my personal opinion on that would be ass-pirate, home slice. just ask Lezard about some ribs some time. scary shit. :eyecrazy

[MotorWerkz]

Yes. When you have a $70,000 car that is one of the most advanced performance machines ever to come out of a factory, you are clearly a "boy racer." :rolleyes

In the eyes of Ferrari owners, GT-R owners are boy racers. Try to compare Ferrari and GT-R is like comparing M3 e46 and Neon SRT-4.

Define "Most advanced"? There are other cars out there who deserved the title of the "Most advanced" Sport car.



:lol:lol you're joking right? Compare the price of a GTR to all of the above cars mentioned!!! If Nissan really wanted to make a $400k super car to compete with the likes of those cars you bet your ass they'd be able to do it... and come out on top.

Yes, they can. Put some Bling2 on GT-R and ask the dealership to markup to 400K, and they have 400K supercar. :lol

Nissan is able, but who's going to buy it? same case to NSX, it tried to take Porsche's market, but in the end, NSX was not selling while Porsche still has strong sales. Even Porsche hasn't changed much of its styling from the 80's, Porsche still has strong sales.

I bet my ass if they make a 400K supercar, they won't come out on top. ;)

[MotorWerkz]

Haha don't get me wrong, I'd love to own a Ferrari but you have to give credit where it's due and Nissan managed to give us supercar like performance for the price of a luxury car. And don't get me started on the VW Beetle :rofl2, Porsche, for the love of god, was making tractors while Nissan was making cars, than they designed the 911 and used the same design every since:D

Dodge Neon SRT-4 managed to give you M3 e46 like performance for the price of a Civic, why don't you get one instead of driving a 328i? You could beat those SOB M3 e36 owners while still having cash left for your personal enjoyment

Did you see the point here? Purchasing a car is not as simple as by looking which has more power. Many Porsche owners are women, and some of them are looking like granny, do you think they buy their cars just because they want to race in the street? :lol

and for your info, I'd rather be in Porsche than to be in Nissan, even though Nissan made cars way before Porsche ;)

[M III Pilot]

And don't get me started on the VW Beetle :rofl2, Porsche, for the love of god, was making tractors while Nissan was making cars, than they designed the 911 and used the same design every since:D


and for your info, I'd rather be in Porsche than to be in Nissan, even though Nissan made cars way before Porsche ;)
Seriously fellas at least get your history straight.:rolleyes

Kwaishinsha Co. and Jitsuyo Jidohsa Co. merged in 1926 to form Dat Jidosha Seizo Co. (javascript:wo('../photo/guide-e/main-e10.html')), which, in 1931, became affiliated with Tobata Casting, a company founded earlier by Aikawa. That would lead two years later to the establishment of Nissan Motor Co.

In 1936, Nissan purchased design plans and plant facilities from Graham-Paige Motors Corp. of the U.S. for the manufacture of passenger cars and trucks. As the signs of war grew stronger, however, production emphasis shifted from small-size Datsun passenger cars to military trucks. During the war, Nissan also manufactured engines for the army's planes and for motor torpedo boats.
http://www.nissan-global.com/GCC/Japan/History/history/index-e.html


http://www.porsche.com/usa/ImageMachines/PageTitle.ashx/rendered.gif?text=1931%3a&mode=h3

Crowning his career, Ferdinand Porsche opens an office for ‘engineering and consultation on engine and vehicle design’ in Stuttgart on April 25. Created for such renowned manufacturers as Wanderer, Zündapp and NSU are not only entire vehicles, but such trend-setting detail solutions as the Porsche torsion bar suspension.


http://www.porsche.com/usa/ImageMachines/PageTitle.ashx/rendered.gif?text=1948%3a&mode=h3

The 356 is the first sports car to bear the Porsche name. ‘No. 1’ is roadcertified in June. Only one month later, the lightweight mid-engine roadster wins its first class victory at the Innsbruck Stadtrennen.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutporsche/porschehistory/milestones/

So while Nissan may officially been first to manufacture a car under the company name we recognize today, they spent many years building military trucks while Porsche was building racecars.

And just to fill in the knowledge void, Lamborghini was a tractor manufacturer prior to turning to automotive endevours, not Porsche.
http://www.lamboweb.com/History.htm

[thedaddy]

In the eyes of Ferrari owners, GT-R owners are boy racers. Try to compare Ferrari and GT-R is like comparing M3 e46 and Neon SRT-4.

Define "Most advanced"? There are other cars out there who deserved the title of the "Most advanced" Sport car.




Yes, they can. Put some Bling2 on GT-R and ask the dealership to markup to 400K, and they have 400K supercar. :lol

Nissan is able, but who's going to buy it? same case to NSX, it tried to take Porsche's market, but in the end, NSX was not selling while Porsche still has strong sales. Even Porsche hasn't changed much of its styling from the 80's, Porsche still has strong sales.

I bet my ass if they make a 400K supercar, they won't come out on top. ;)

I hate to tell you but the NSX changed the way supercars were built. Even Ferrari took note and realized they needed to up their game.

[Cacatfish]

There havent been many japanese semi-exotic production cars. The G4 supra turbo and Acura NSX being the main notables. Also worth noting is how strong their value has held even compared to such marques as Porsche and BMW. My guess is people poo-poo'd those cars the same way the snobs on this board are poo-poo'ing the Nissan..."cheesy Japanese crap, noone wants one, noone cares, etc etc." just so much wishful thinking by the bleating fan-bois. The car is already going off like a firecracker and will only further open the door for more and more Japanese built Euro-contenders. Dont expect it to happen overnight, but anyone who can observe long term trends will have to see the change in the air.

[AMDdude]

Seriously fellas at least get your history straight.:rolleyes

http://www.nissan-global.com/GCC/Japan/History/history/index-e.html


http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutporsche/porschehistory/milestones/

So while Nissan may officially been first to manufacture a car under the company name we recognize today, they spent many years building military trucks while Porsche was building racecars.

And just to fill in the knowledge void, Lamborghini was a tractor manufacturer prior to turning to automotive endevours, not Porsche.
http://www.lamboweb.com/History.htm

You've forgetting that Nissan was formerly Datsun and they been around for even longer.

Oh and about the tractors... http://www.porschetractors.com/ap108.html

[oldMcR]

I hate to tell you but the NSX changed the way supercars were built. Even Ferrari took note and realized they needed to up their game.

indeed, but your point only continues to reinforce my arguement. the NSX was a phenomenal driver's car (so i have been told) that was produced in limited numbers. i see the GT-R following the same path.

maybe this is east coast bias, but i see what cars make it to the track regularly, and with the possible exception of Miatas and the occasional RX8, Japan is not well represented. sure there are guys in 350Zs & NASA has a 4 cylinder class and a Scoobie might show up now and again, but still it comes down to Corvettes, Porsches, & BMWs for performance cars at the track.

[720810]

what happened to the nsx had alot to do with Ayrton Senna...It was pretty much his creation,and what happens to a child when his father dies at an early age? he still has the genetics and what not but not the rearing... where I was ghoing with my opinion is that even though the gtr is not the "class" as the Ferrari's ,Porsches,aston martins,zondas,and lamborghini's,ect,ect...It has put it's bright red "R" in the global super car market's face kinda like porsche did back in the day,like shelby did back in the day ,like ford did back in the day...make a world beater the world can afford sans the effing snobbery ;)

[AMDdude]

Dodge Neon SRT-4 managed to give you M3 e46 like performance for the price of a Civic, why don't you get one instead of driving a 328i? You could beat those SOB M3 e36 owners while still having cash left for your personal enjoyment

Did you see the point here? Purchasing a car is not as simple as by looking which has more power. Many Porsche owners are women, and some of them are looking like granny, do you think they buy their cars just because they want to race in the street? :lol

and for your info, I'd rather be in Porsche than to be in Nissan, even though Nissan made cars way before Porsche ;)

It's definitely a valid point, and is something that plagues Japanese manufacturers. It is just sad that so many people look at the badge first. However the Neon example is a little far fetched, even Ferrari, Porsche, Lambo, etc, owners can appreciate the likes of a NSX, Supra and GT-R, even though they are mere Honda, Toyota and Nissan. The Neon SRT4 fails because it is based on a Neon, not because it is a Dodge.

[Cacatfish]

maybe this is east coast bias.... .

Must be..I see all kinds of Integras, CRX's, Civics, WRX, RX-7, Miata, Datsun 510's and just about any other kind of Japanese import out there. I think a lot of what skews the statistics is the fact that demographically, the more affluent poeple own the Euro cars (and Vettes) and those same people are mostly the ones that can afford to throw down $300-$400 for an hour and a half on the track. Go to a cheap track event such as autocross and then report back.

[abradic]

In the eyes of Ferrari owners, GT-R owners are boy racers. Try to compare Ferrari and GT-R is like comparing M3 e46 and Neon SRT-4.

Define "Most advanced"? There are other cars out there who deserved the title of the "Most advanced" Sport car.


I will bet that Ferrari owners and such will take note of a GT-R just like they took note of a NSX. Boy racer...lol, it just shows how much you don't see the bigger picture. I'll tell you this, a Ferrari owner looks at an M3 driver as a boy racer, and there are more boy racers driving around in M3's than you will ever see in the GT-R.

It's not as exotic as a Ferrari, it never will be because the Nissan name is not exotic. Just like MB and BMW are not exotics. The GT-R will probably never be owned by boy racers because they don't have $70,000, and production is limited ensuring excellent resale value. Many boy racers would love an NSX, yet they fall into proper hands because of the resale value. The GT-R will be in that category.

All this knocking of a car that if given a choice, the majority would take the GT-R. Maybe not the ones writing on this thread, but in general. Given a test drive in each, most would opt for the GT-R. The car is built solidly and will probably have a million times more reliability than a 911 turbo, Ferrari, Lambo and such, and much less maintenance. You can't compare it's reliability to a BMW or Toyota because cars like that need more pampering. When you go extreme like that, you have to pay to play.

I'll stick by my original comment, if this car was a BMW brain child and released like this, you guys would be falling all over yourselves and proclaim BMW has topped Porsche, and this is a better value than a supercar. It's funny that all the arguments against the car are not because it doesn't perform, or is built well, apparently it's inferior simply because it says Nissan. At least here we can see who the true car enthusiasts are, and those who don't have a clue and only look at the name plate with no idea what they're talking about.

[MotorWerkz]

I hate to tell you but the NSX changed the way supercars were built. Even Ferrari took note and realized they needed to up their game.

LOL!!! :lol

did you make this up by yourself? :nono :shifty

If NSX changed the way supercars were built, why was F40 created way before NSX and it's still one of the best supercar ever made? Do you remember Porsche 959? it was created way before NSX was created.

Even in 97, Motor Trend declared that M3 e36 was the best handling car among strong contenders like NSX, F355, and etc. If NSX changed the way supercars were built, why did it get beaten by M3 e36 in 97?

Still remember this pic?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/evanescent12/wNTA1OTE2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE3D.jpg

NSX is at 4th place. Still thinking that NSX changed the way supercars were built? think again.

[MotorWerkz]

I will bet that Ferrari owners and such will take note of a GT-R just like they took note of a NSX. Boy racer...lol, it just shows how much you don't see the bigger picture. I'll tell you this, a Ferrari owner looks at an M3 driver as a boy racer, and there are more boy racers driving around in M3's than you will ever see in the GT-R.

Yes, in the eyes of Ferrari owners, M3 owners are simply boy racers. In the eyes of M3 owners, SRT-4 are simply boy racers. It's how a person look at other people below the ladder.

What are you talking about? GT-R hasn't been released yet, therefore M3 owners will have bigger population than GT-R. We'll see how many boy racers in GT-R and M3 e92 when they are both released.



It's not as exotic as a Ferrari, it never will be because the Nissan name is not exotic. Just like MB and BMW are not exotics. The GT-R will probably never be owned by boy racers because they don't have $70,000, and production is limited ensuring excellent resale value. Many boy racers would love an NSX, yet they fall into proper hands because of the resale value. The GT-R will be in that category.

Why the fock are some of you guys compare GT-R with Ferrari and Lamborghini?

Who said GT-R will never be owned by boy-racer, if you assumed that M3 (which cost almost the same as GT-R) will have more boy racer population, that means GT-R will have as much boy-racers with M3. :nono



All this knocking of a car that if given a choice, the majority would take the GT-R. Maybe not the ones writing on this thread, but in general. Given a test drive in each, most would opt for the GT-R. The car is built solidly and will probably have a million times more reliability than a 911 turbo, Ferrari, Lambo and such, and much less maintenance. You can't compare it's reliability to a BMW or Toyota because cars like that need more pampering. When you go extreme like that, you have to pay to play.

Bad .. very BAD assumption. NSX has better reliability than Porsche Carrera, but why does Porsche Carrera has better sales than NSX? If you are looking at exotic car, you won't care about its maintenance. How many Ferrari and Lamborghini owners switch to NSX just because NSX is more reliable? So reliability is the only excuse that Japanese fanboy always pull off?



I'll stick by my original comment, if this car was a BMW brain child and released like this, you guys would be falling all over yourselves and proclaim BMW has topped Porsche, and this is a better value than a supercar. It's funny that all the arguments against the car are not because it doesn't perform, or is built well, apparently it's inferior simply because it says Nissan. At least here we can see who the true car enthusiasts are, and those who don't have a clue and only look at the name plate with no idea what they're talking about.

THIS IS A BIMMERFORUMS ... So expect the people here to be crazy about BMWs. Let me remind you one thing, this is not GENERAL CAR FORUM.

If you go to Nissan forum, do you think they will be all over BMW M5? no way. They'll think otherwise.

Let me repeat it, There's no such thing as CAR Enthusiast, you might be an enthusiast in one brand, but not in GENERAL. if you are a car enthusiast, you would be all over any car out there especially Pontiac AZTEK. If you hate Pontiac AZTEK, don't call yourself a car enthusiast. :lol

[M III Pilot]

You've forgetting that Nissan was formerly Datsun and they been around for even longer.

Oh and about the tractors... http://www.porschetractors.com/ap108.html
No not at all, the first company, Dat, was started in 1911 and then through mergers and aquisitions of other companies, Jitsuyo Jidosha Co., Ltd and Tobata Casting, a new company was formed named Nissan in 1932.
http://www.nissan-global.com/GCC/Japan/History/history/index-e.html

And if you want to go by that convoluted chain of mergers, yeah "Nissan" has been around longer than Porsche, which was founded as and has always been Porsche.

Ok, I stand corrected...didn't know that Porsche also built tractors at one point however they started as an automotive company with the 356 in 1948, and later also built tractors, whereas Lambo started as a tractor mfg and then swapped to cars.

My point is, just becasue a certain company has been around longer doesn't mean they are more or less capable than another.

Besides for those that haven't driven both cars and are arguing about which is better, M3 vs GTR, is kinda lika two blind men arguing about which color they like best, neither one really has a clue what they're talking about and is absolutely pointless.

[720810]

how do you consider to be "way before"

if my memory serves me correctly nsx,959,and f40,happened like in 1988

at that time 959 not for sale in usa but else where in the world for $295k.
f40 $175k. nsx a mere $58k...

in retrospect the gtr is the 959 of this era...the veyron and mclaren are completely
different cars ,cuz for the price of a fleet of gtr's you get one of each of them freaks
of human achievement.

[thedaddy]

LOL!!! :lol

did you make this up by yourself? :nono :shifty

If NSX changed the way supercars were built, why was F40 created way before NSX and it's still one of the best supercar ever made? Do you remember Porsche 959? it was created way before NSX was created.

Even in 97, Motor Trend declared that M3 e36 was the best handling car among strong contenders like NSX, F355, and etc. If NSX changed the way supercars were built, why did it get beaten by M3 e36 in 97?

Still remember this pic?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/evanescent12/wNTA1OTE2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE3D.jpg

NSX is at 4th place. Still thinking that NSX changed the way supercars were built? think again.

You don't read much do you or you are very young. Even Enzo Ferrari himself acknowledged the abilities of the NSX and it is the primary reason Ferrari started build much better cars starting with the 355.

The E36 is just a used car. Every other car in that line up is better.

[thedaddy]

indeed, but your point only continues to reinforce my arguement. the NSX was a phenomenal driver's car (so i have been told) that was produced in limited numbers. i see the GT-R following the same path.

maybe this is east coast bias, but i see what cars make it to the track regularly, and with the possible exception of Miatas and the occasional RX8, Japan is not well represented. sure there are guys in 350Zs & NASA has a 4 cylinder class and a Scoobie might show up now and again, but still it comes down to Corvettes, Porsches, & BMWs for performance cars at the track.

That could just be indicative of your area and the fact that getting to the track is not cheap and guys ho own Porsches, Ferraris and Vettes are usually more financially able to run at a track than STi or EVO drivers.

[oldMcR]

Must be..I see all kinds of Integras, CRX's, Civics, WRX, RX-7, Miata, Datsun 510's and just about any other kind of Japanese import out there. I think a lot of what skews the statistics is the fact that demographically, the more affluent poeple own the Euro cars (and Vettes) and those same people are mostly the ones that can afford to throw down $300-$400 for an hour and a half on the track. Go to a cheap track event such as autocross and then report back.


you had me until you tried to compare dodging cones in a parking lot to driving on a dedicated race track.

one of the finest autoX race cars i have ever seen was a K Car station wagon.

sorry but maybe you should attend a Pro Tour event and then maybe report back to me.

[MotorWerkz]

how do you consider to be "way before"

if my memory serves me correctly nsx,959,and f40,happened like in 1988



Taken from Wikipedia:

"The Honda NSX (Acura NSX in North America and Hong Kong) is a sports car produced between 1990 and 2005 by the Japanese automaker Honda"

959 and F40 were introduced way before NSX was introduced.



at that time 959 not for sale in usa but else where in the world for $295k.
f40 $175k. nsx a mere $58k...

And that's a steal, right? but why did it not selling very well?



in retrospect the gtr is the 959 of this era...the veyron and mclaren are completely
different cars ,cuz for the price of a fleet of gtr's you get one of each of them freaks
of human achievement.

:confused

So you believe NSX was a freak of human achievement at that time? Why did it score 4th position in Motor Trend Review? They had 7 years to improve it, but they still didn't get it right. The only thing they got it right, is how to make it reliable.

GT-R is like NSX all over again. GT-R is trying to steal the market of Porsche and BMW. We'll see how well Nissan does.

[thedaddy]

you had me until you tried to compare dodging cones in a parking lot to driving on a dedicated race track.

one of the finest autoX race cars i have ever seen was a K Car station wagon.

sorry but maybe you should attend a Pro Tour event and then maybe report back to me.

His point was valid. If you only go to track day events that are relatively expensive that will largely explain why you primarily see more expensive cars.

Anyone who thinks the japanese cannot make brilliant track cars needs to PM bmwretard or one of his professional friends.

[oldMcR]

That could just be indicative of your area and the fact that getting to the track is not cheap and guys ho own Porsches, Ferraris and Vettes are usually more financially able to run at a track than STi or EVO drivers.

ok so given your argument, why don't older guys with bucks drive EVO's and STI's? could it be that maturity lends itself to intelligent choice when purchasing track vehicles? or is it possible that rice rockets are just the play toys of youngsters?

[thedaddy]

Taken from Wikipedia:

"The Honda NSX (Acura NSX in North America and Hong Kong) is a sports car produced between 1990 and 2005 by the Japanese automaker Honda"

959 and F40 were introduced way before NSX was introduced.



And that's a steal, right? but why did it not selling very well?



:confused

So you believe NSX was a freak of human achievement at that time? Why did it score 4th position in Motor Trend Review? They had 7 years to improve it, but they still didn't get it right. The only thing they got it right, is how to make it reliable.

GT-R is like NSX all over again. GT-R is trying to steal the market of Porsche and BMW. We'll see how well Nissan does.

You are simply stupid I guess. You do not know automotive history. I am guess you are trolling here like ohnoes because you are banned from OT.

Your argument has zero merit and all you use to support it is a magazine cover? Excellent.

The NSX will be discussed and driven years after the last E36 M3 has been crushed.

[thedaddy]

ok so given your argument, why don't older guys with bucks drive EVO's and STI's? could it be that maturity lends itself to intelligent choice when purchasing track vehicles? or is it possible that rice rockets are just the play toys of youngsters?

They are smaller and less comfortable. I have owned an E46 M3 and an STI. The STI (modded) is faster around any track. The cars are aimed at a different demographic.

I love Vettes, but most are never driven in anger other than to and from the AARP meeting.

EDIT: a mildly modded EVO or STI will crush you in your Z06.

[oldMcR]

His point was valid. If you only go to track day events that are relatively expensive that will largely explain why you primarily see more expensive cars.

Anyone who thinks the japanese cannot make brilliant track cars needs to PM bmwretard or one of his professional friends.


dude, i have no beef with you or your opinion. i see what i see. i also see plenty of people in their 20's driving BMW's at the track. autox is not a high performance event until you enter into the the level of SCCA solo.

[oldMcR]

They are smaller and less comfortable. I have owned an E46 M3 and an STI. The STI (modded) is faster around any track. The cars are aimed at a different demographic.

I love Vettes, but most are never driven in anger other than to and from the AARP meeting.

EDIT: a mildly modded EVO or STI will crush you in your Z06.+


by mildly i assume you mean you are borrowing a set of nuts from someone else?

[MotorWerkz]

You are simply stupid I guess. You do not know automotive history. I am guess you are trolling here like ohnoes because you are banned from OT.

Your argument has zero merit and all you use to support it is a magazine cover? Excellent.

The NSX will be discussed and driven years after the last E36 M3 has been crushed.

Just because you can't argue, you can call me an idiot? Look who's talking.

I'm not banned from OT, you wanna see me posting in OT? :rolleyes

How about your arguments? do you think calling me an idiot will get you a merit or two? oh pleassseeee :rolleyes

And about NSX, If E30 M3 is still around, I bet my ass that E36 M3 will be around after years to come.

[thedaddy]

dude, i have no beef with you or your opinion. i see what i see. i also see plenty of people in their 20's driving BMW's at the track. autox is not a high performance event until you enter into the the level of SCCA solo.

The difference is access as well. If you live near a track then it is easy. If not then autoX is the way to get some fun time.

I live in NE Florida and the closest track to me is Roebling in Savannah. Thats 3 hours away and not terribly handy.

I have seen plenty of BMWs at tracks too because comparatively they are cheap. The E36 M3 is a slow but cheap alternative for the track.

Just keep in mind that what you see is indicative of your specific area on that day and does not necessarily correlate to any other place.

You are fortunate you have easy access to a track.

The parts guy at our local Subaru dealer ended up #2 nationally in his class in autox. Lots of national level guys around here.

[thedaddy]

+


by mildly i assume you mean you are borrowing a set of nuts from someone else?

A manual boost controller and software...............thats all.

[thedaddy]

Just because you can't argue, you can call me an idiot? Look who's talking.

I'm not banned from OT, you wanna see me posting in OT? :rolleyes

How about your arguments? do you think calling me an idiot will get you a merit or two? oh pleassseeee :rolleyes

And about NSX, If E30 M3 is still around, I bet my ass that E36 M3 will be around after years to come.

I make fun of you because you cannot present a valid adult argument.

Fact: The NSX made Ferrari considerably improve quality and performance. The Balance and ease of ownership introduced by the NSX changed the how exotics are perceived used and built.

If I have to keep educating you I will charge you tuition.

E30 M3 = barely around.

[720810]

all I was getting at is that the gtr and m3 are gonna be bad to the bone,just like the zri and nsx were bad to the bone and the f40 and 959 were bad to the bone,and the wrx and evo were bad to the bone...all these cars have one thing in common...they are the sum of an auto makers desire to produce a viable product to what ever group of consumers are willing to buy into what they are selling...and before long we will be having this same discussion,but the discussion will be about a mexican auto maker ,or a russian auto maker,perhaps even a chilean auto maker...what I am saying is this ...If a car is bad to the bone it's what it is regardless of where or when it was made...I love cars and when a car is made that sets the world on it's ear and creates a sti8r much in the same way this itteration of the gtr has you'd be stupid not to take notice...

[Bisan]

what happened to the nsx had alot to do with Ayrton Senna...It was pretty much his creation,and what happens to a child when his father dies at an early age? he still has the genetics and what not but not the rearing...

brilliant, I've read this entire thread, but thats one of the better points made about the nsx.

Subscribed!!

[AMDdude]

I make fun of you because you cannot present a valid adult argument.

Fact: The NSX made Ferrari considerably improve quality and performance. The Balance and ease of ownership introduced by the NSX changed the how exotics are perceived used and built.

If I have to keep educating you I will charge you tuition.

E30 M3 = barely around.

It's the truth, before the NSX, Ferrari made cars that were barley livable with, you wouldn't risk taking your Ferrari out to the grocery store in fear of crashing in a fiery ball. Now look, 355, 550, 360, 430, those are like the civics and e36s, you can use them every day:D

[MotorWerkz]

I make fun of you because you cannot present a valid adult argument.

Fact: The NSX made Ferrari considerably improve quality and performance. The Balance and ease of ownership introduced by the NSX changed the how exotics are perceived used and built.

If I have to keep educating you I will charge you tuition.

E30 M3 = barely around.

:rolleyes

E30 M3 produced from 1986 to 1992, while NSX is produced from 1990 to 2005. It's not a surprise if they barely around, F40 is barely around, 959 is barely around.

It's easy to call someone uneducated when you, yourself is the one.

Where did you get your fact? From some unreputable source? :confused
I assume that you are just assuming facts.

[oldMcR]

The difference is access as well. If you live near a track then it is easy. If not then autoX is the way to get some fun time.

I live in NE Florida and the closest track to me is Roebling in Savannah. Thats 3 hours away and not terribly handy.

I have seen plenty of BMWs at tracks too because comparatively they are cheap. The E36 M3 is a slow but cheap alternative for the track.

Just keep in mind that what you see is indicative of your specific area on that day and does not necessarily correlate to any other place.

You are fortunate you have easy access to a track.

The parts guy at our local Subaru dealer ended up #2 nationally in his class in autox. Lots of national level guys around here.


you are shitting me right? Jacksonville? and the best you can do is tell me Roebling is too far a drive. there is Barber, CMP, Charlotte, VIR, Sebring within 500 miles of you at best. if you are an autoX'er then fine, just don't act like you piss off the same porch i do.

[thedaddy]

you are shitting me right? Jacksonville? and the best you can do is tell me Roebling is too far a drive. there is Barber, CMP, Charlotte, VIR, Sebring within 500 miles of you at best. if you are an autoX'er then fine, just don't act like you piss off the same porch i do.

Roebling is closer than Moroso or Sebring by a long ways. My home and condo have toilets so I do not pissed off the porch.

[thedaddy]

:rolleyes

E30 M3 produced from 1986 to 1992, while NSX is produced from 1990 to 2005. It's not a surprise if they barely around, F40 is barely around, 959 is barely around.

It's easy to call someone uneducated when you, yourself is the one.

Where did you get your fact? From some unreputable source? :confused
I assume that you are just assuming facts.

Myself is the one? I am not responsible for what you haven't read.

I did not question your education I simply pointed out you cannot make a valid argument. Your spelling and sentence structure does call your education into question though.

[oldMcR]

Roebling is closer than Moroso or Sebring by a long ways. My home and condo have toilets so I do not pissed off the porch.

too bad kid, i look forward to the day when i can say i pissed in my driving suit. be sure to post pictures of your GT-R. cheers.

[oldMcR]

Myself is the one? I am not responsible for what you haven't read.

I did not question your education I simply pointed out you cannot make a valid argument. Your spelling and sentence structure does call your education into question though.

ego maniac or just an asshole? i wonder.

and while your presumed command of the english language may be superior to many on this board, is that really such a lofty achievement? seriously, there are some real morons posting around these parts.:eek:

[thedaddy]

too bad kid, i look forward to the day when i can say i pissed in my driving suit. be sure to post pictures of your GT-R. cheers.

I am cheap and no longer buy depreciating assets when they are new.

And my hobbies are basketball and Krav Maga. Good luck to you. Different strokes for different folks.

EDIT: Not a kid.

[thedaddy]

ego maniac or just an asshole? i wonder.

and while your presumed command of the english language may be superior to many on this board, is that really such a lofty achievement? seriously, there are some real morons posting around these parts.:eek:

I'll take B for a hundred Alex.......

There are lots of morons here.

[oldMcR]

I am cheap and no longer buy depreciating assets when they are new.

And my hobbies are basketball and Krav Maga. Good luck to you. Different strokes for different folks.

EDIT: Not a kid.

well then you are going to love the next response i posted.

there is something to be said for buying used, however sometimes the newest is in fact the greatest. take for example the X5. damn fine ride.

basketball is a girls game, or well played by colleges that are too sophisticated to recruit a real football team.

and WTF is krav maga?

[thedaddy]

well then you are going to love the next response i posted.

there is something to be said for buying used, however sometimes the newest is in fact the greatest. take for example the X5. damn fine ride.

basketball is a girls game, or well played by colleges that are too sophisticated to recruit a real football team.

and WTF is krav maga?

Google it. Israeli martial arts. It is fun.

Basketball is more fun and easier to play than football. Being from Georgia I know plenty about football. Once you are out of college though there really is no place to play. I am a natural strong safety.

[oldMcR]

Google it. Israeli martial arts. It is fun.

Basketball is more fun and easier to play than football. Being from Georgia I know plenty about football. Once you are out of college though there really is no place to play. I am a natural strong safety.

these days its Kubota and Shindiawa.

track weekends in my (again you must be shitting me) e36 are a welcome respite. STI, please.

[720810]

seriously, there are some real morons posting around these parts.:eek:

but I shore gotta purty mouth

[thedaddy]

these days its Kubota and Shindiawa.

track weekends in my (again you must be shitting me) e36 are a welcome respite. STI, please.

I did kenpo in the past and now prefer Krav because it is none of the eastern metaphysical kata crap. We simply fight and train.

Old pic after a return from the Dragons Tail and seeing the Mom.

http://i30.tinypic.com/2wlym3o.jpg

[abradic]

Yes, in the eyes of Ferrari owners, M3 owners are simply boy racers. In the eyes of M3 owners, SRT-4 are simply boy racers. It's how a person look at other people below the ladder.

What are you talking about? GT-R hasn't been released yet, therefore M3 owners will have bigger population than GT-R. We'll see how many boy racers in GT-R and M3 e92 when they are both released.



Why the fock are some of you guys compare GT-R with Ferrari and Lamborghini?

Who said GT-R will never be owned by boy-racer, if you assumed that M3 (which cost almost the same as GT-R) will have more boy racer population, that means GT-R will have as much boy-racers with M3. :nono



Bad .. very BAD assumption. NSX has better reliability than Porsche Carrera, but why does Porsche Carrera has better sales than NSX? If you are looking at exotic car, you won't care about its maintenance. How many Ferrari and Lamborghini owners switch to NSX just because NSX is more reliable? So reliability is the only excuse that Japanese fanboy always pull off?



THIS IS A BIMMERFORUMS ... So expect the people here to be crazy about BMWs. Let me remind you one thing, this is not GENERAL CAR FORUM.

If you go to Nissan forum, do you think they will be all over BMW M5? no way. They'll think otherwise.

Let me repeat it, There's no such thing as CAR Enthusiast, you might be an enthusiast in one brand, but not in GENERAL. if you are a car enthusiast, you would be all over any car out there especially Pontiac AZTEK. If you hate Pontiac AZTEK, don't call yourself a car enthusiast. :lol

Holy cow, you must be what, 18? First, I never compared the GT-R to a Ferrari. There is no comparison, because a Ferrari is in it's own league. That's why you pay the premium.

Second, learn how to engage your comprehension skills. An E36 M3 was $45,000 in the 90's, not exactly boy racer territory. We can all agree that today, there are plenty boy racers driving them. We see that on this board. The E46 M3 was $55,000, but is now beginning to enter that territory where a bunch of teens will be driving them. Guess what, the E92 will come down as well. I don't see the GT-R doing that kind of price drop due to the exclusive numbers being built so that is going to keep the price up. Sure, some teen out there will drive one, but you'll be hard pressed to find on. 99% of the drivers won't be. Either way, just because some boy racer is driving the car doesn't make it bad, but you seemed to bring it up that the GT-R will be driven by a bunch of boy racers which is false.

Again, comprehension skills for reliability. Nobody buys an exotic car because they are economical, reliable, or practical. It's the worse thing you could ever invest in, and the best thing you could ever buy. Money is money, but the experience is what life is about. However, with the clueless rants how it's a GT-R, Nissan is not reliable, it won't last, the car will not be able to withstand the abuse...I felt it necessary to point out that no supercar fares well with reliability because they are high powered machines, but I mentioned that the GT-R will most likely have better reliability than the typical supercar. It's not sales pitch, or a reason someone would choose the car, that's a no-brainer. It's simply a rebuttal to false accusations.

Third, there ARE car enthusiasts, you're just not one. I personally don't care for a Vette, but I also know that the C6, and upcoming ZR1 are a great car. They will be fantastic. I also hate Mustangs, but have mad respect for a 2003-2004 Cobra. The 350Z, STi, and EVO are not cars I would own, but then to spout how they suck and are inferior wouldn't be accurate either because let's face it, they are very good vehicles and fun too. I just prefer something different. Being a car enthusiast, you appreciate different takes on great cars. Your stupid, asinine example of an Aztek is just dumb. Nobody is enthusiastic about a minivan, SUV, or 4 door family hauler. You get enthusiastic about cars with flavor. I could care less about a 5 series, but give me an M5 and it's a different ballgame...get the idea?

While you may not be an enthusiast because only a German car or exotic can ever be good, the rest of us will enjoy what others have to offer. Quit reading magazines and playing Playstation and go experience some of the other cars. Just because they didn't put a $50,000 interior in a $30,000 car doesn't mean it sucks.

[MotorWerkz]

Myself is the one? I am not responsible for what you haven't read.

I did not question your education I simply pointed out you cannot make a valid argument. Your spelling and sentence structure does call your education into question though.

Yeah right, I was not born in U.S., so excuse my english language. However, if you think my education has connection to my english, then you are an idiot. How many japanese scientists are unable to speak english? Well?

If you can't argue right, don't start one. N00b.

[thedaddy]

Yeah right, I was not born in U.S., so excuse my english language. However, if you think my education has connection to my english, then you are an idiot. How many japanese scientists are unable to speak english? Well?

If you can't argue right, don't start one. N00b.

Oh no!

He pulled out the n00b card!

The last line of defense when you have lost is to retreat to the join date.

Maybe you can work something up with post count as well or get Brittney and Tiffany to say mean things about me on AIM?

In short.........................the GTR and the M3 will both be fun cars. I prefer the GTR. You prefer the M3.

Domo arigato, Mr, Roboto














Domo

Edit: Motorwerks with an S is the real and true Motorwerks.

[MotorWerkz]

you are 38 but you act like some highschool kid. So pathetic. You didn't even address my point, you simply act like "oh no, I can't prove this guy wrong, let me pull the 'idiot' card so I can go offtopic"

Well, sir, you are lame, and everything you posted in this thread is nothing but a big and bad assumption which can't even be proven. This also proves it further that you are a typical japanese fanboy who got butthurt if people dislike a japanese brand.

Adios m o r o n!

[MotorWerkz]

Holy cow, you must be what, 18? First, I never compared the GT-R to a Ferrari. There is no comparison, because a Ferrari is in it's own league. That's why you pay the premium.

Bad assumption, AGAIN!. I wasn't the one who compare Ferrari and GT-R in the first place (look previous post and you know who did that). If Ferrari in its own league, why on earth some people here comparing GT-R to it?




Second, learn how to engage your comprehension skills. An E36 M3 was $45,000 in the 90's, not exactly boy racer territory. We can all agree that today, there are plenty boy racers driving them. We see that on this board. The E46 M3 was $55,000, but is now beginning to enter that territory where a bunch of teens will be driving them. Guess what, the E92 will come down as well. I don't see the GT-R doing that kind of price drop due to the exclusive numbers being built so that is going to keep the price up. Sure, some teen out there will drive one, but you'll be hard pressed to find on. 99% of the drivers won't be. Either way, just because some boy racer is driving the car doesn't make it bad, but you seemed to bring it up that the GT-R will be driven by a bunch of boy racers which is false.

I guess you are the one who need to learn how to engage your comprehension skill. GT-R price will drop no matter what you do to it. Ferrari and Lamborghini owners will interpret the owner of GT-R as boyracers, just like the M3 owners to SRT owners. I didn't say that GT-R will be owned by boyracers, although it will be in the years to come.



Again, comprehension skills for reliability. Nobody buys an exotic car because they are economical, reliable, or practical. It's the worse thing you could ever invest in, and the best thing you could ever buy. Money is money, but the experience is what life is about. However, with the clueless rants how it's a GT-R, Nissan is not reliable, it won't last, the car will not be able to withstand the abuse...I felt it necessary to point out that no supercar fares well with reliability because they are high powered machines, but I mentioned that the GT-R will most likely have better reliability than the typical supercar. It's not sales pitch, or a reason someone would choose the car, that's a no-brainer. It's simply a rebuttal to false accusations.

That's what I've been saying, NEVER pull off a card where NSX is better than Ferrari because it's more reliable. :nono You just prove my point further that you didn't read my post, you just skimped thru it.



Third, there ARE car enthusiasts, you're just not one. I personally don't care for a Vette, but I also know that the C6, and upcoming ZR1 are a great car. They will be fantastic. I also hate Mustangs, but have mad respect for a 2003-2004 Cobra. The 350Z, STi, and EVO are not cars I would own, but then to spout how they suck and are inferior wouldn't be accurate either because let's face it, they are very good vehicles and fun too. I just prefer something different. Being a car enthusiast, you appreciate different takes on great cars. Your stupid, asinine example of an Aztek is just dumb. Nobody is enthusiastic about a minivan, SUV, or 4 door family hauler. You get enthusiastic about cars with flavor. I could care less about a 5 series, but give me an M5 and it's a different ballgame...get the idea?

Again, you prove my point that there are no such thing as car enthusiast. You hate mustang, you don't care about Vette. So why call yourself a car enthusiast? are you forcing yourself to be one?

Aztek is a car, and even though it's ugly, some people still buy it. If you dislike it, don't call yourself a car enthusiast.

I admit I'm not a car enthusiast, because I don't really like 80% of cars out there. I'm mostly BMW and Porsche enthusiast, although I have an MB, I'm not really enthusiastic towards them.



While you may not be an enthusiast because only a German car or exotic can ever be good, the rest of us will enjoy what others have to offer. Quit reading magazines and playing Playstation and go experience some of the other cars. Just because they didn't put a $50,000 interior in a $30,000 car doesn't mean it sucks.

I don't need to read magazine. I have experienced some cars to date, ie: Viper, F360, NSX, 350z, Carrera 4, M3 e36, M3 e46, Eclipse GS-T stage 3, Toyota Supra, and E55.

just a light experience driving them. I love NSX, driving it is a completely different experience than all cars I've experienced. It offers big view and sitting in it like I was sitting on the road. The problem was, the one I tried doesn't have power steering, so parallel parking is difficult.

But if you ask me to spend my money on NSX, I wouldn't do it. I'd rather get a Porsche Carrera.

[RobbieR]

http://i30.tinypic.com/2wlym3o.jpgNice car!

And FWIW....the GTR destroys the M3 up and down the block and around it again. Sorry fanboys, but it's true.

[Wolfen]

I'm fond of Nissan. I drove my Z32 300zx for about 7 years. It was a really great car. Great handling, 5 speed, LSD, reliable etc etc.. A drivers car. Nissan does make very good drivers cars.

But the price tag of the GTR is too high IMO for the Brand. Also the styling is too reminiscent of a Scion. But performance wise, there's no argument.

But making a great car has no real formula. There are a ton of intangibles that seem very elusive for a manufacturer to capture. Seemingly the NSX should have been a winner. It was in my book. It had it all and is still a great car today, but for some reason it was not popular. Go figure. It's those intangibles.

I hope it does well and gives the fans of those cars some joy. Maybe we can have friendly races together.

[Alpine torque]

Dude you are dumb.


You are simply stupid I guess. You do not know automotive history. .


There are lots of morons here.

who the fuck is this POS?? and where are the mods?


You don't read much do you or you are very young. Even Enzo Ferrari himself acknowledged the abilities of the NSX and it is the primary reason Ferrari started build much better cars starting with the 355.

oh let me explain some automotive history to you - you see...Enzo Ferrari died in 1988.... the NSX was released in 1990...:lol - this discussion is so over yourself, that you just started rewriting the history just to fuel your rice hunger, please gtfo and....

stop trolling!



ps: how old are you? i hope your not older than 16, for your own good

[E36FTW]

Let's be serious about who's been doing the trolling in this thread lol....:lol


Also the styling is too reminiscent of a Scion.

That styling is 100% function: The car was built to receive the lowest amount of drag possible, which turned out to be .27! So they just chose function over form.

[abradic]

Bad assumption, AGAIN!. I wasn't the one who compare Ferrari and GT-R in the first place (look previous post and you know who did that). If Ferrari in its own league, why on earth some people here comparing GT-R to it?




I guess you are the one who need to learn how to engage your comprehension skill. GT-R price will drop no matter what you do to it. Ferrari and Lamborghini owners will interpret the owner of GT-R as boyracers, just like the M3 owners to SRT owners. I didn't say that GT-R will be owned by boyracers, although it will be in the years to come.



That's what I've been saying, NEVER pull off a card where NSX is better than Ferrari because it's more reliable. :nono You just prove my point further that you didn't read my post, you just skimped thru it.



Again, you prove my point that there are no such thing as car enthusiast. You hate mustang, you don't care about Vette. So why call yourself a car enthusiast? are you forcing yourself to be one?

Aztek is a car, and even though it's ugly, some people still buy it. If you dislike it, don't call yourself a car enthusiast.

I admit I'm not a car enthusiast, because I don't really like 80% of cars out there. I'm mostly BMW and Porsche enthusiast, although I have an MB, I'm not really enthusiastic towards them.



I don't need to read magazine. I have experienced some cars to date, ie: Viper, F360, NSX, 350z, Carrera 4, M3 e36, M3 e46, Eclipse GS-T stage 3, Toyota Supra, and E55.

just a light experience driving them. I love NSX, driving it is a completely different experience than all cars I've experienced. It offers big view and sitting in it like I was sitting on the road. The problem was, the one I tried doesn't have power steering, so parallel parking is difficult.

But if you ask me to spend my money on NSX, I wouldn't do it. I'd rather get a Porsche Carrera.

So who compared Ferrari to the GT-R? It's ok to say a car will be faster, or have more performance than a Ferrari. That doesn't mean I am comparing it and advocating it's better than a Ferrari, people are simply highlighting the amazing performance.

You need to learn how to read. I never said the GT-R won't drop in price, I also know it won't appreciate either. If you read correctly, I said it will hold it's value better. The GT-R will drop in price, but it will not be significant like a typical car. If you look at a 2002 M3 right now, they are starting to fall below $30,000, and the M3 has good resale value. The GT-R will not be anywhere near that price after 6 years due to the exclusive production numbers. Also, just because you say it's a boyracer car doesn't make it one. I would like to hear your definition of boyracer so we can all have a laugh.

Please quit making yourself look smart. Who on this board said the NSX is better than a Ferrari? Please quote me saying this. If I say the NSX has more reliability well...it's true. Now, if this makes your butt hurt I'm sorry, but that's a fact. Does this mean it's better than the Ferrari, no. The Ferrari, as I have stated, is a different car bought for a much different reason.

Oh, and there are car enthusiasts, and I sure as hell am one. I said I hate Mustangs, but I also give certain ones respect, so this proves your point how? See, you hate a car because it doesn't say MB or BMW. You know what that makes you? A boyracer fanboy. My reason for not being a Mustang person is because the handling on the car is horrible, it's heavy, and pretty much a sloppy car to drive. The 2003-2004 Cobras were a significant upgrade and I enjoyed the little time I got to drive one. The fact is though, there are some good attributes to regular Mustangs. This is being an enthusiast. The Vette is a great car, I just prefer something else if I were going to spend the money. I still appreciate what it can do. Hey, I'm a Cubs fan, Bears fan, and Bulls fan. Just because they aren't playing doesn't mean a baseball, football, or basketball game sucks.

Interesting, you drove an NSX without power steering? You liked how it drove, but wouldn't buy one. That's how I feel about many cars too. The STi for example, great car and fun to drive, but I wouldn't buy one for me. The car enthusiast in me really liked the car, but there are others I like better. You may not like the GT-R, but to say it sucks, it's a boyracer car, or any other excuse you come up with to put it down is really silly.

[thedaddy]

you are 38 but you act like some highschool kid. So pathetic. You didn't even address my point, you simply act like "oh no, I can't prove this guy wrong, let me pull the 'idiot' card so I can go offtopic"

Well, sir, you are lame, and everything you posted in this thread is nothing but a big and bad assumption which can't even be proven. This also proves it further that you are a typical japanese fanboy who got butthurt if people dislike a japanese brand.

Adios m o r o n!

What was your point. It is hard to find a point mixed in with all the drivel. I have highlighted in red the dumb part of your post that make it difficult to pull any intelligent point from your post.

If you can focus for a minute and make a point I will address it.

[thedaddy]

Nice car!

And FWIW....the GTR destroys the M3 up and down the block and around it again. Sorry fanboys, but it's true.

All it needs is a banjo and it is done.

[thedaddy]

who the fuck is this POS?? and where are the mods?


oh let me explain some automotive history to you - you see...Enzo Ferrari died in 1988.... the NSX was released in 1990...:lol - this discussion is so over yourself, that you just started rewriting the history just to fuel your rice hunger, please gtfo and....

stop trolling!



ps: how old are you? i hope your not older than 16, for your own good

And you are another hack who asserts your opinion as though it were fact.

It was actually Luca de Montezemolo who credited the NSX with raising the bar on supercars and not Enzo.

I understand if you and the other guy cannot manage to put together facts to support your juvenile opinions. It is OK. You will grow out of this phase.

[thedaddy]

Let's be serious about who's been doing the trolling in this thread lol....:lol



That styling is 100% function: The car was built to receive the lowest amount of drag possible, which turned out to be .27! So they just chose function over form.

Oh Snap!

It is the blindly fanatical BMW fans who are the fan boys. They refuse to acknowledge that other companies can and do make great cars.

[brahtw8]

:rolleyes

E30 M3 produced from 1986 to 1992, while NSX is produced from 1990 to 2005. It's not a surprise if they barely around, F40 is barely around, 959 is barely around.

It's easy to call someone uneducated when you, yourself is the one.

Where did you get your fact? From some unreputable source? :confused
I assume that you are just assuming facts.

It is you who assumes you know that which you do not.

The history of the NSX is without dispute for anyone who cares to educate themselves.

Being a BMW fanboy you surely must respect Gordon Murray. You are obviously unaware that the NSX was part of the development and inspiration for the Mclaren F1, or that Honda turned down his request to develop the engine before he went to BMW.

Honda dominated F1 racing in the 1980s and the NSX was the result of the application of that technology. Murray himself daily drove one for many years.

The connection between the NSX and F1 does not end there. In 1995, when the McLaren F1 won Le Mans overall, the NSX placed 1st in its class (GT2) and 8th overall.

Without question Ferrari and Porsche, among others, were forced to address the NSX and the NSX greatly improved the drivability, ergonomics and reliability of those cars.

Honda simply did not improve the NSX over time as they should have. I have also long suspected that Senna's death played a role in the apparent loss of enthusiasm. The car deserved much better.

The chassis is capable of handling 650 hp or more and simply dominates when developed to that extreme. Ask Stuntman on this board about the FactorX NSX domination of the Redline Time Attack this year.

When it was introduced in 1990 as a 1991 model, the competition was the 964 series 911, the C4 Corvette, the Lotus Esprit and the Ferrari 348. The NSX dominated the competition and sales were decent in the early years.

When NSX production ended in 2005, the competition was the 997, the C6 and the Ferrari 360.

[Compactive]

If you have enough money to buy either of them, then its all up to the driver. Both are respectable models, I don't see anyone going wrong with either of them. I don't think it is a good idea to make a four page thread about two cars that none of you have ever driven before. What you've all heard and seen translates very roughly when you turn the key. They are both driver's cars, so leave the comparing for those that will drive them.

[brahtw8]

I don't think it is a good idea to make a four page thread about two cars that none of you have ever driven before.

I don't disagree, but this board would be awfully quiet without such threads.

[E36FTW]

If you have enough money to buy either of them, then its all up to the driver. Both are respectable models, I don't see anyone going wrong with either of them. I don't think it is a good idea to make a four page thread about two cars that none of you have ever driven before. What you've all heard and seen translates very roughly when you turn the key. They are both driver's cars, so leave the comparing for those that will drive them.

Haha ya where's the fun in that?? :lol

[Compactive]

Sorry my previous post was for the guys catching feelings over the two great cars. its easy to love something you can't have, because that requires no work at all. Thats my stand but for you guys. . .

Dang it, I forgot all about the fun. Screw those rich Euro guys who get to have all the fun comparing for us. In that attitude, I'd say, the GTR is WICKED!!! forgive me for being picky, but I'm not a fan of the G35/7 front it resembles. But when your going 0-60 in under 4 seconds who gives. I like how someone mentioned earlier about how the GTR will be a year around car, being that it is AWD. GTR to work? GTR to the track? GTR to Pizza Castle? Hopefully it won't be GTR back to dealership.

I don't have much to say about the M3, afterall this is BF.C, theres not much I can say about it that hasnt been stated.

Both are going to be hard to mod without a serious paycheck I know that for sure. When it comes down to choosing one to actually buy, I think its down to the relationship that is built between driver and machine. Minus all the hype, the street cred and all that, I am strictly talking about "in those 10 seconds or less, nothing else matters..." ;-)

All of the stuff you guys said about both models all look great on my screen. but on a serious note, no ones heart should be shattered until they get in one of these beast of machines.

[thedaddy]

It is you who assumes you know that which you do not.

The history of the NSX is without dispute for anyone who cares to educate themselves.

Being a BMW fanboy you surely must respect Gordon Murray. You are obviously unaware that the NSX was part of the development and inspiration for the Mclaren F1, or that Honda turned down his request to develop the engine before he went to BMW.

Honda dominated F1 racing in the 1980s and the NSX was the result of the application of that technology. Murray himself daily drove one for many years.

The connection between the NSX and F1 does not end there. In 1995, when the McLaren F1 won Le Mans overall, the NSX placed 1st in its class (GT2) and 8th overall.

Without question Ferrari and Porsche, among others, were forced to address the NSX and the NSX greatly improved the drivability, ergonomics and reliability of those cars.

Honda simply did not improve the NSX over time as they should have. I have also long suspected that Senna's death played a role in the apparent loss of enthusiasm. The car deserved much better.

The chassis is capable of handling 650 hp or more and simply dominates when developed to that extreme. Ask Stuntman on this board about the FactorX NSX domination of the Redline Time Attack this year.

When it was introduced in 1990 as a 1991 model, the competition was the 964 series 911, the C4 Corvette, the Lotus Esprit and the Ferrari 348. The NSX dominated the competition and sales were decent in the early years.

When NSX production ended in 2005, the competition was the 997, the C6 and the Ferrari 360.

Excellent post.

[Cacatfish]

you had me until you tried to compare dodging cones in a parking lot to driving on a dedicated race track.

one of the finest autoX race cars i have ever seen was a K Car station wagon.

sorry but maybe you should attend a Pro Tour event and then maybe report back to me.

I pee off balconies, I pee in my stockings, my E-penor is HUGE!

Ok, we get it mister "Nomex", you're Billy Bad-Ass behind the wheel! Congratulations! Noone equated Auto-x to track days for anything beyond cost, except for you. The point of the statement was to show
that many people cannot afford to throw down $700-$800 as "regular" track enthusiasts but can afford $15 to enter an auto-x. Hence the types of cars will be different. This was a rather simple point but you needed to use it to answer a question noone asked. Well done!
Unless I can crack open the Roundel and see your name in the top of the race results listings (as can be done with other members on this board) my guess is that you're peeing off the same small porch as the rest of us. You just crow a lot louder about it.

[thedaddy]

Ok, we get it mister "Nomex", you're Billy Bad-Ass behind the wheel! Congratulations! Noone equated Auto-x to track days for anything beyond cost, except for you. The point of the statement was to show
that many people cannot afford to throw down $700-$800 as "regular" track enthusiasts but can afford $15 to enter an auto-x. Hence the types of cars will be different. This was a rather simple point but you needed to use it to answer a question noone asked. Well done!
Unless I can crack open the Roundel and see your name in the top of the race results listings (as can be done with other members on this board) my guess is that you're peeing off the same small porch as the rest of us. You just crow a lot louder about it.

I think he just has a peeing problem. Some people as they age develop it. Drugs are made for it.

[Snork]

What is it we're talking about? Peeing? About 4-6 times a day, though that depends how much tea I had, which is usually a lot.

[Alpine torque]

And you are another hack who asserts your opinion as though it were fact.

please explain....


It was actually Luca de Montezemolo who credited the NSX with raising the bar on supercars and not Enzo.

ohh..... now is di Montezemolo...do you have some evidence of this comedy? or this is another BS you raised to cover your previous BS "facts"

[thedaddy]

please explain....

ohh..... now is di Montezemolo...do you have some evidence of this comedy? or this is another BS you raised to cover your previous BS "facts"

I got my old Italian guys mixed up. I made an error. We all do. Judging by the prejudicial nature of your posts I am certain you do as well.

Have you not read what others have said about the NSX?

Jump back up to the post by brahtw8. It explains things very clearly.

[Alpine torque]

I got my old Italian guys mixed up. I made an error. We all do. Judging by the prejudicial nature of your posts I am certain you do as well.

Have you not read what others have said about the NSX?

Jump back up to the post by brahtw8. It explains things very clearly.
wow.... a reputable source i must say:lol, it's pretty common for manufacturers to steal ideas and technologies from others... and being ontopic - i can't even imagine how much "inspiration" Nissan borrowed from other manufacturers when creating this GTR, especially from it's parent company.... Renault, and it's racing experience;
i hope they didn't borrowed some of Renault's legendary unreliability too:rofl

[brahtw8]

please explain....

ohh..... now is di Montezemolo...do you have some evidence of this comedy? or this is another BS you raised to cover your previous BS "facts"

I like your 850. I have come close to buying one in the past and plan to own one in the future, when the collection is a little larger.

I love BMWs. But I am a true enthusiast, not a brand whore.

Apparently, you refuse to give the NSX its due.

Far worse, you don't understand the fundamental principle of auto enthusiasm:

Competition improves the breed.

I don't know how much time you have spent in or around the Ferrari 348 and the Ferrari 355. They are a night in day difference, and part of the reason is the NSX. I know people that have them and I have driven them into triple digits (355).

Anyways, here is the evidence you missed so many years ago.

http://www.autozine.org/Classiccar/html/Ferrari/F355.html

Ferrari usually enjoys a superior status in the eyes of car enthusiasts. However, sometimes it can go wrong, too. In the early 1990s, Ferrari's entry-level sports car 348tb faced strong challenge from Honda NSX and Porsche 993. In a triple test conducted by Autocar magazine in March 1994, the Ferrari was beaten by both rivals even though it cost the most money. The 348tb was fast and beautiful – like a "Mini-Testarossa", but it had a lot of weaknesses as well, for example, harsh ride, nervous handling and less than perfect build quality. When Luca di Montezemolo became Ferrari’s managing director, declining sales, deteriorating brand image and lack of motivation were the problems he faced. He was shocked that the 348 he drove was so poor. Even more surprising was that the engineers at Maranello did not realize the problems. Montezemolo determined to revitalize the corporate culture and product lines of Ferrari. The first fruit was F355.

See also

MAY 23, 2006

News & Features
AutoWeek, The Inside Track

The Beast Within
Underneath its almost docile demeanor, the 599 GTB Fiorano is the most potent front-engine Ferrari ever.

STORY TOOLS
Printer-Friendly Version
E-Mail This Story
Reader Comments

AT A GLANCE:
2007 FERRARI 599 GTB FIORANO
ON SALE: November
BASE PRICE: $250,000 (est.)
POWERTRAIN: 6.0-liter, 620-hp, 448-lb-ft V12; rwd, six-speed electrohydraulically shifted manual
CURB WEIGHT: 3722 lbs
0 TO 62 MPH: 3.7 seconds (mfr.)
FUEL MILEAGE: 11.04 mpg (est.)


When Honda introduced the Acura NSX in 1990, car enthusiasts weren’t sure what to think. The aluminum-bodied NSX mixed Honda virtues and supercar dynamics in an exotic mid-engine coupe. As supercars go, it was a quantum leap in comfort, ease of function and reliability.

The NSX wanted to change the way the world looked at supercars, but many—Ferraristi foremost—weren’t buying. They wanted to dismiss amazing fit-and-finish and user-friendly operation as kitchen-appliance values or a lack of character or pedigree.

Luca Cordero di Montezemolo knew better. So in 1993 the carefully groomed successor to Enzo Ferrari, firmly entrenched as Ferrari’s president and CEO, demanded his engineers create, in his words, “a V12 berlinetta reaching new levels of comfort, visibility and ergonomics without impinging in any way on what is legendary Ferrari.”

The embodiment of his vision is the 1996 550 Maranello, a landmark in Ferrari’s modernization. For the 550, thorough product development mattered as much as performance. So did luxury, lower maintenance and—sheez—reliability. Ten years later it’s hard to argue that the 550 Maranello embodies anything but good.

**

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/may2006/bw20060523_750505.htm

[oldMcR]

Ok, we get it mister "Nomex", you're Billy Bad-Ass behind the wheel! Congratulations! Noone equated Auto-x to track days for anything beyond cost, except for you. The point of the statement was to show
that many people cannot afford to throw down $700-$800 as "regular" track enthusiasts but can afford $15 to enter an auto-x. Hence the types of cars will be different. This was a rather simple point but you needed to use it to answer a question noone asked. Well done!
Unless I can crack open the Roundel and see your name in the top of the race results listings (as can be done with other members on this board) my guess is that you're peeing off the same small porch as the rest of us. You just crow a lot louder about it.


touche' mon friar. definitely Budwieser Bravado on my part.

still really doubt you will see a GT-R at a track near you or even an AutoX. that was my point.

besides, if i actually was making the list in the Roundel would i be up all night trying to piss you guys off?

i should probably get back to work on my car.

[ripp]

:naughty


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a25/bkeo/sunliner35.jpg

[AMDdude]

:naughty


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a25/bkeo/sunliner35.jpg

:drool:

0-60 in 3.3 seconds, bye bye 599:wave

[thedaddy]

wow.... a reputable source i must say:lol, it's pretty common for manufacturers to steal ideas and technologies from others... and being ontopic - i can't even imagine how much "inspiration" Nissan borrowed from other manufacturers when creating this GTR, especially from it's parent company.... Renault, and it's racing experience;
i hope they didn't borrowed some of Renault's legendary unreliability too:rofl

Seeing as how they have been making GTRs for some time now I am certain there is no Renault influence.

I think Nissan likely will have better luck with reliability than the newer BMWs. And they are light years ahead of older 8 series cars.

[MotorWerkz]

who the fuck is this POS?? and where are the mods?


oh let me explain some automotive history to you - you see...Enzo Ferrari died in 1988.... the NSX was released in 1990...:lol - this discussion is so over yourself, that you just started rewriting the history just to fuel your rice hunger, please gtfo and....

stop trolling!



ps: how old are you? i hope your not older than 16, for your own good
+1

Excellent post

thedaddy sure contradicted himself. What a silly POS troll.

[thedaddy]

+1

Excellent post

thedaddy sure contradicted himself. What a silly POS troll.

You see both of you mental midgets do not get it. Calling you names may warrant attention from the mods, but simply pointing out that both of you are dumb is just accurately presenting the facts based on your posts.

You both may not be dumb in the real world, but in things auto here you are.

I can explain things a little more slowly if you get lost.

EDIT: Do you really drive a station wagon?:rofl:

[MotorWerkz]

So who compared Ferrari to the GT-R? It's ok to say a car will be faster, or have more performance than a Ferrari. That doesn't mean I am comparing it and advocating it's better than a Ferrari, people are simply highlighting the amazing performance.

Please read from page 1 and you know who has been speculating that Ferrari owners will switch to GT-R just because GT-R is better and more reliable. :embarrasm



You need to learn how to read. I never said the GT-R won't drop in price, I also know it won't appreciate either. If you read correctly, I said it will hold it's value better. The GT-R will drop in price, but it will not be significant like a typical car. If you look at a 2002 M3 right now, they are starting to fall below $30,000, and the M3 has good resale value. The GT-R will not be anywhere near that price after 6 years due to the exclusive production numbers. Also, just because you say it's a boyracer car doesn't make it one. I would like to hear your definition of boyracer so we can all have a laugh.

Since GT-R is not exotic, price will drop significantly in 5 years or more. We'll see how well it does in the future.

My definition of boyracer: A person who bought his car because it's the best bang for buck and trying to race more expensive cars (especially exotics) to prove to himself that his purchase is justified.

well.. of course I made it up myself just for fun. :stickoutt



Please quit making yourself look smart. Who on this board said the NSX is better than a Ferrari? Please quote me saying this. If I say the NSX has more reliability well...it's true. Now, if this makes your butt hurt I'm sorry, but that's a fact. Does this mean it's better than the Ferrari, no. The Ferrari, as I have stated, is a different car bought for a much different reason.

Nobody said NSX is better or NSX is worse. I don't have to be butthurt because NSX is more reliable because it's the truth. I don't deny it. What I argued is that, Most people wouldn't buy NSX if they can afford Ferrari. Even my friend who purchased NSX regret it because he could buy a Porsche Carrera S and be happy with it. (He regret it because his brother bought Carrera and when he drove his bro's Carrera, he totally loved it).



Oh, and there are car enthusiasts, and I sure as hell am one. I said I hate Mustangs, but I also give certain ones respect, so this proves your point how? See, you hate a car because it doesn't say MB or BMW. You know what that makes you? A boyracer fanboy. My reason for not being a Mustang person is because the handling on the car is horrible, it's heavy, and pretty much a sloppy car to drive. The 2003-2004 Cobras were a significant upgrade and I enjoyed the little time I got to drive one. The fact is though, there are some good attributes to regular Mustangs. This is being an enthusiast. The Vette is a great car, I just prefer something else if I were going to spend the money. I still appreciate what it can do. Hey, I'm a Cubs fan, Bears fan, and Bulls fan. Just because they aren't playing doesn't mean a baseball, football, or basketball game sucks.

Boyracer fanboy? LoL .. now you have your own definition of boyracer fanboy. Tell me, why you define me as boyracer? Just because I don't like cars that you like? I even bought a car that I intend not to race.



Interesting, you drove an NSX without power steering? You liked how it drove, but wouldn't buy one. That's how I feel about many cars too. The STi for example, great car and fun to drive, but I wouldn't buy one for me. The car enthusiast in me really liked the car, but there are others I like better. You may not like the GT-R, but to say it sucks, it's a boyracer car, or any other excuse you come up with to put it down is really silly.

I didn't say it's a boyracer's car, but I said, If you look at it from Ferrari owners' perspectives, GT-R is a boyracer car.



It is you who assumes you know that which you do not.

What I do not know? I was right about NSX being sold from 1990 to 2005, so what did I assume?




The history of the NSX is without dispute for anyone who cares to educate themselves.

Being a BMW fanboy you surely must respect Gordon Murray. You are obviously unaware that the NSX was part of the development and inspiration for the Mclaren F1, or that Honda turned down his request to develop the engine before he went to BMW.

I didn't say NSX was bad, but to say NSX changed the way supercars were made is a bit misleading. Supercars have been around before NSX was created.



Honda dominated F1 racing in the 1980s and the NSX was the result of the application of that technology. Murray himself daily drove one for many years.

The connection between the NSX and F1 does not end there. In 1995, when the McLaren F1 won Le Mans overall, the NSX placed 1st in its class (GT2) and 8th overall.

I don't need to argue that.



Without question Ferrari and Porsche, among others, were forced to address the NSX and the NSX greatly improved the drivability, ergonomics and reliability of those cars.

Maybe assuming too much will not be helpful. How can you said Ferrari was forced to address their supercars just because of NSX? F50 was released 5 years after NSX was released and F50 still doesn't have audio, power window and safety features. I don't know where you got this information, but I'm sure it sounds a bit fanboyism.



Honda simply did not improve the NSX over time as they should have. I have also long suspected that Senna's death played a role in the apparent loss of enthusiasm. The car deserved much better.

Suspected? so assuming? okay. I believe Senna's death didn't really affect how NSX were made.



The chassis is capable of handling 650 hp or more and simply dominates when developed to that extreme. Ask Stuntman on this board about the FactorX NSX domination of the Redline Time Attack this year.

No doubt. even M3 e30 can handle that much power.



When it was introduced in 1990 as a 1991 model, the competition was the 964 series 911, the C4 Corvette, the Lotus Esprit and the Ferrari 348. The NSX dominated the competition and sales were decent in the early years.

When NSX production ended in 2005, the competition was the 997, the C6 and the Ferrari 360.

NSX's sales were decent until 95, that's where it began to slow down. I have no idea why Honda didn't increase NSX's power output, but I believe if NSX was made more powerful, the sales would increase. Everyone knows, that HP sells.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say NSX was bad. It's just that the information from the smartest-wannabe 'thedaddy' is misleading.

[MotorWerkz]

You see both of you mental midgets do not get it. Calling you names may warrant attention from the mods, but simply pointing out that both of you are dumb is just accurately presenting the facts based on your posts.

You both may not be dumb in the real world, but in things auto here you are.

I can explain things a little more slowly if you get lost.

EDIT: Do you really drive a station wagon?:rofl:
See ...

thedaddy made himself look like an idiot again. What makes you think that I drive a station wagon?

[MotorWerkz]

:drool:

0-60 in 3.3 seconds, bye bye 599:wave
Post like this made GT-R owner look like boyracers.

LoL .. how many 599 owner race their car? See, they don't need to race their car to prove which is better.

So, in downtown area especially on Fifth Ave, NY, cruising in 599 > cruising in GT-R :wave

[MotorWerkz]

Seeing as how they have been making GTRs for some time now I am certain there is no Renault influence.

I think Nissan likely will have better luck with reliability than the newer BMWs. And they are light years ahead of older 8 series cars.

And do you think by making fun of his car will make you smarter? The more you post, the dumber you become.

:lol

[720810]

close

[thedaddy]

See ...

thedaddy made himself look like an idiot again. What makes you think that I drive a station wagon?

What does Avantgarde mean?

And it was a question. The little "?" at the end of the sentence indicates a question in my language.

[thedaddy]

And do you think by making fun of his car will make you smarter? The more you post, the dumber you become.

:lol

Says the expert on dumb?

[thedaddy]

Please read from page 1 and you know who has been speculating that Ferrari owners will switch to GT-R just because GT-R is better and more reliable. :embarrasm



Since GT-R is not exotic, price will drop significantly in 5 years or more. We'll see how well it does in the future.

My definition of boyracer: A person who bought his car because it's the best bang for buck and trying to race more expensive cars (especially exotics) to prove to himself that his purchase is justified.

well.. of course I made it up myself just for fun. :stickoutt



Nobody said NSX is better or NSX is worse. I don't have to be butthurt because NSX is more reliable because it's the truth. I don't deny it. What I argued is that, Most people wouldn't buy NSX if they can afford Ferrari. Even my friend who purchased NSX regret it because he could buy a Porsche Carrera S and be happy with it. (He regret it because his brother bought Carrera and when he drove his bro's Carrera, he totally loved it).



Boyracer fanboy? LoL .. now you have your own definition of boyracer fanboy. Tell me, why you define me as boyracer? Just because I don't like cars that you like? I even bought a car that I intend not to race.



I didn't say it's a boyracer's car, but I said, If you look at it from Ferrari owners' perspectives, GT-R is a boyracer car.




What I do not know? I was right about NSX being sold from 1990 to 2005, so what did I assume?



I didn't say NSX was bad, but to say NSX changed the way supercars were made is a bit misleading. Supercars have been around before NSX was created.



I don't need to argue that.



Maybe assuming too much will not be helpful. How can you said Ferrari was forced to address their supercars just because of NSX? F50 was released 5 years after NSX was released and F50 still doesn't have audio, power window and safety features. I don't know where you got this information, but I'm sure it sounds a bit fanboyism.



Suspected? so assuming? okay. I believe Senna's death didn't really affect how NSX were made.



No doubt. even M3 e30 can handle that much power.



NSX's sales were decent until 95, that's where it began to slow down. I have no idea why Honda didn't increase NSX's power output, but I believe if NSX was made more powerful, the sales would increase. Everyone knows, that HP sells.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say NSX was bad. It's just that the information from the smartest-wannabe 'thedaddy' is misleading.

Maybe you should try cricket or something?

The NSX changed the way supercars are made. Go ask anyone in your village.

[MotorWerkz]

What does Avantgarde mean?

And it was a question. The little "?" at the end of the sentence indicates a question in my language.


Maybe you should check on dictionary? Or did you just assume that Avantgarde = Stationwagon? OMG .. LOL!!!
and that little "?" shouldn't be accompanied by that emoticon. That emoticon already suggested that you laughing something you assume you know but in fact you still want to confirm your assumption.

There are 3 classes for MB, The Classic, Elegance, and Avantgarde in series such as C class and E class.

Avantgarde E-class has more sporty exterior, Full option from end to end.

[thedaddy]

Maybe you should check on dictionary? Or did you just assume that Avantgarde = Stationwagon? OMG .. LOL!!!

There are 3 classes for MB, The Classic, Elegance, and Avantgarde in series such as C class and E class.

Avantgarde E-class has more sporty exterior, Full option from end to end.

I did a search.

I do not drive mercedes so I asked. Are you above being asked questions?

emoticons are for fun.

[AMDdude]

Maybe you should try cricket or something?

The NSX changed the way supercars are made. Go ask anyone in your village.


:rofl :rofl

I see what you did there:lol

[the andrew]

How amazing, reading through all these pages, sometimes I forgot what the argument was about, it goes very far off topic. It's like any other thread on this forum when it's comparing two DIFFERENT cars from different parts of the world yeilding DIFFERENT driving impressions. It really makes this forum look bad, IMO there's some good information here and some decent people who bring very good points and research to the table. However once again these cars are different and it's very ignorant and narrow minded to think otherwise when one car IS better than another in some aspects, it's like that fight over Merc and BMW, it ended up being a pissing wikipedia/fanboy attitudes between two people.

NO MATTER WHAT if you take two similar cars, place them side by side, each will have their benefits and failures toward one another, this is why we as the consumers have choices, It would be a very boring world if everything was the best, and to say something Jap is lacking in some, just because of what people built it or what piece of dirt on the earth it came from, is just stupid. People talk about appeal also, but do you really want to be that ignorant person who buys a Caddi Escalade just because some hip hop "artist" has one?? You wanna compare cars, why don't you go drive one first, thats what I did, I drove a 7 series and then drove an S-class right after (Two comparable cars BTW) The BMW had a much better interior, was quick tight and accurate, The S-class was stunning also, interior was cheap but the ride was the best of the two, and forget looks, you have all seen both of them, to each/own. SEE?

People asking about cars on a BMW forum like this-FTL

Reading ACTUAL impressions FTW

Don't flame me I read EVERYTHING in this post, I believe it was the E92 M3 vs the NEW GT-R, nothing else.

To the rest of you, you know why I own a BMW and three letters have nothing to do with it, it's more the fact I, me, myself etc get excited when driving it/looking at it, washing it etc. People have passions, get over yourselves already. Go ahead and flame me, I'll still get up in the morning and go do amazing things, and enjoy the car I picked for me.

PS quit wasting time fighting about this, it is what it is...


Pipe organ: ten fingers two feet, one brain.

[abradic]

Please read from page 1 and you know who has been speculating that Ferrari owners will switch to GT-R just because GT-R is better and more reliable. :embarrasm



Since GT-R is not exotic, price will drop significantly in 5 years or more. We'll see how well it does in the future.

My definition of boyracer: A person who bought his car because it's the best bang for buck and trying to race more expensive cars (especially exotics) to prove to himself that his purchase is justified.

well.. of course I made it up myself just for fun. :stickoutt



Nobody said NSX is better or NSX is worse. I don't have to be butthurt because NSX is more reliable because it's the truth. I don't deny it. What I argued is that, Most people wouldn't buy NSX if they can afford Ferrari. Even my friend who purchased NSX regret it because he could buy a Porsche Carrera S and be happy with it. (He regret it because his brother bought Carrera and when he drove his bro's Carrera, he totally loved it).



Boyracer fanboy? LoL .. now you have your own definition of boyracer fanboy. Tell me, why you define me as boyracer? Just because I don't like cars that you like? I even bought a car that I intend not to race.



I didn't say it's a boyracer's car, but I said, If you look at it from Ferrari owners' perspectives, GT-R is a boyracer car.




What I do not know? I was right about NSX being sold from 1990 to 2005, so what did I assume?



I didn't say NSX was bad, but to say NSX changed the way supercars were made is a bit misleading. Supercars have been around before NSX was created.



I don't need to argue that.



Maybe assuming too much will not be helpful. How can you said Ferrari was forced to address their supercars just because of NSX? F50 was released 5 years after NSX was released and F50 still doesn't have audio, power window and safety features. I don't know where you got this information, but I'm sure it sounds a bit fanboyism.



Suspected? so assuming? okay. I believe Senna's death didn't really affect how NSX were made.



No doubt. even M3 e30 can handle that much power.



NSX's sales were decent until 95, that's where it began to slow down. I have no idea why Honda didn't increase NSX's power output, but I believe if NSX was made more powerful, the sales would increase. Everyone knows, that HP sells.

Don't get me wrong, I didn't say NSX was bad. It's just that the information from the smartest-wannabe 'thedaddy' is misleading.

I didn't ask you to type gibberish, I asked you to quote me where I said the GT-R is better than a Ferrari. Quote me where I said Ferrari owners will switch to the GT-R. Quote me, otherwise quit typing misleading crap to attempt to make yourself look good.

No kidding a Ferrari owner, who has hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend will buy one instead of a GT-R. If I had that kind of money, my cars to immediately buy are a Porsche Carrera GT and a Ferrari Enzo. I would then look for an F40. Dreams of course. I have not read a single comment on here that stated Ferrari owners are going to dump their cars for the GT-R. Unless you can produce a quote of me saying it, stop insinuating it.

The real problem is you, and others saying the car will suck and is not worth it. The point people are making is that it is worth it. It has the performance of a Ferrari, Porsche, etc...at 1/4 the price. Those are facts. You take that so out of context because you can't comprehend meaning. Saying it has better performance than a Ferrari costing 4x's more doesn't mean it's a better car because it's not. It does highlight the value of performance you're getting though.

I hate to burst your bubble, but the GT-R is a supercar. The new ZR-1 coming out will be a supercar too. It won't be an exotic, but when you have 480hp or 625 hp and run a 1/4 mile in the mid to high 11's, that is a supercar performance figure. The Nurburgring lap time for the GT-R is supercar performance when you compare it to the other supercars.

I'll say it a third time, if this car said BMW on it, and was a BMW GT-R, you wouldn't be complaining as much. In your world, only a BMW, MB, or Porsche can be a supercar. Well, Nissan made one because the performance and track numbers support it. It definetely falls way short on the prestige of the exotics, but then you aren't paying for that either. You are a fanboy if you think only a German or exotic can build a fun car or a supercar. If all you do is look at the car and dismiss it right away just because Nissan made it, or Honda, then you are by definition a fanboy.

The GT-R is not aimed at the Ferrari owner anyway, and Nissan never said it was. This car is aimed at the people earning $200,000/year. These are the people who can't afford a Lamborghini, but want one. They make enough money to be able to buy a high powered car, but not enough to buy something exotic. The GT-R is a perfect fit here. You get the performance, fun, and thrill but still fit into the budget.

[thedaddy]

I didn't ask you to type gibberish, I asked you to quote me where I said the GT-R is better than a Ferrari. Quote me where I said Ferrari owners will switch to the GT-R. Quote me, otherwise quit typing misleading crap to attempt to make yourself look good.

No kidding a Ferrari owner, who has hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend will buy one instead of a GT-R. If I had that kind of money, my cars to immediately buy are a Porsche Carrera GT and a Ferrari Enzo. I would then look for an F40. Dreams of course. I have not read a single comment on here that stated Ferrari owners are going to dump their cars for the GT-R. Unless you can produce a quote of me saying it, stop insinuating it.

The real problem is you, and others saying the car will suck and is not worth it. The point people are making is that it is worth it. It has the performance of a Ferrari, Porsche, etc...at 1/4 the price. Those are facts. You take that so out of context because you can't comprehend meaning. Saying it has better performance than a Ferrari costing 4x's more doesn't mean it's a better car because it's not. It does highlight the value of performance you're getting though.

I hate to burst your bubble, but the GT-R is a supercar. The new ZR-1 coming out will be a supercar too. It won't be an exotic, but when you have 480hp or 625 hp and run a 1/4 mile in the mid to high 11's, that is a supercar performance figure. The Nurburgring lap time for the GT-R is supercar performance when you compare it to the other supercars.

I'll say it a third time, if this car said BMW on it, and was a BMW GT-R, you wouldn't be complaining as much. In your world, only a BMW, MB, or Porsche can be a supercar. Well, Nissan made one because the performance and track numbers support it. It definetely falls way short on the prestige of the exotics, but then you aren't paying for that either. You are a fanboy if you think only a German or exotic can build a fun car or a supercar. If all you do is look at the car and dismiss it right away just because Nissan made it, or Honda, then you are by definition a fanboy.

The GT-R is not aimed at the Ferrari owner anyway, and Nissan never said it was. This car is aimed at the people earning $200,000/year. These are the people who can't afford a Lamborghini, but want one. They make enough money to be able to buy a high powered car, but not enough to buy something exotic. The GT-R is a perfect fit here. You get the performance, fun, and thrill but still fit into the budget.

It is not fair for you to keep beating up on him like this.

[MotorWerkz]

I didn't ask you to type gibberish, I asked you to quote me where I said the GT-R is better than a Ferrari. Quote me where I said Ferrari owners will switch to the GT-R. Quote me, otherwise quit typing misleading crap to attempt to make yourself look good.

DOH!!!:95 are you stupid or what? I didn't say YOU, I said that OTHER member which contributed in this thread. Please read carefully next time, and don't just skimp thru.



No kidding a Ferrari owner, who has hundreds of thousands of dollars to spend will buy one instead of a GT-R. If I had that kind of money, my cars to immediately buy are a Porsche Carrera GT and a Ferrari Enzo. I would then look for an F40. Dreams of course. I have not read a single comment on here that stated Ferrari owners are going to dump their cars for the GT-R. Unless you can produce a quote of me saying it, stop insinuating it.

What the ? Now you are the one who type gibberish :shifty



The real problem is you, and others saying the car will suck and is not worth it. The point people are making is that it is worth it. It has the performance of a Ferrari, Porsche, etc...at 1/4 the price. Those are facts. You take that so out of context because you can't comprehend meaning. Saying it has better performance than a Ferrari costing 4x's more doesn't mean it's a better car because it's not. It does highlight the value of performance you're getting though.

Now you QUOTE me when did I say GT-R suck? :nono



I hate to burst your bubble, but the GT-R is a supercar. The new ZR-1 coming out will be a supercar too. It won't be an exotic, but when you have 480hp or 625 hp and run a 1/4 mile in the mid to high 11's, that is a supercar performance figure. The Nurburgring lap time for the GT-R is supercar performance when you compare it to the other supercars.

No, you didn't burst my bubble here. I didn't say GT-R is not a supercar, did I? I said GT-R is not EXOTIC. Dude ... do you read or not?



I'll say it a third time, if this car said BMW on it, and was a BMW GT-R, you wouldn't be complaining as much. In your world, only a BMW, MB, or Porsche can be a supercar. Well, Nissan made one because the performance and track numbers support it. It definetely falls way short on the prestige of the exotics, but then you aren't paying for that either. You are a fanboy if you think only a German or exotic can build a fun car or a supercar. If all you do is look at the car and dismiss it right away just because Nissan made it, or Honda, then you are by definition a fanboy.

NOW you are ASSUMING that I believe BMW, MB or Porsche can be supercar. When did I say that? Again?

You are assuming too much. Boy, there's so much hatred in you that you don't even know what you are typing.



The GT-R is not aimed at the Ferrari owner anyway, and Nissan never said it was. This car is aimed at the people earning $200,000/year. These are the people who can't afford a Lamborghini, but want one. They make enough money to be able to buy a high powered car, but not enough to buy something exotic. The GT-R is a perfect fit here. You get the performance, fun, and thrill but still fit into the budget.

Nissan never said it, but Fanboy here said it. If you think I'm a German car fanboy, think again. I have 2 japanese cars in my garage and 2 german cars.

Now get out and read properly, learn to address what I pointed out to you.

[Snork]

Guys, guys. as far as everyone else is concerned, all three of you are wrong about everything.

[abradic]

DOH!!!:95 are you stupid or what? I didn't say YOU, I said that OTHER member which contributed in this thread. Please read carefully next time, and don't just skimp thru.



What the ? Now you are the one who type gibberish :shifty



Now you QUOTE me when did I say GT-R suck? :nono



No, you didn't burst my bubble here. I didn't say GT-R is not a supercar, did I? I said GT-R is not EXOTIC. Dude ... do you read or not?



NOW you are ASSUMING that I believe BMW, MB or Porsche can be supercar. When did I say that? Again?

You are assuming too much. Boy, there's so much hatred in you that you don't even know what you are typing.



Nissan never said it, but Fanboy here said it. If you think I'm a German car fanboy, think again. I have 2 japanese cars in my garage and 2 german cars.

Now get out and read properly, learn to address what I pointed out to you.

My mistake on the supercar bit, I could have sworn that's what it said but I see it says otherwise. You don't say the car sucks, yet you speak of it in negative terms. So, I would have to conclude you don't think highly of it. Otherwise you start contradicting yourself by speaking in negative terms.

If you want to come out and call me stupid, by all means knock your socks off. If stupid got me to this point in my life, then I'm a lucky stupid guy...just imagine if I wasn't stupid!

I have no hatred, and to suggest that I have any hatred towards you is wrong. If I am debating you on a forum back and forth or disagree with you that doesn't mean I hate you. It's a forum, a topic, and a discussion. I don't like having my words twisted though, and you tried to do that. When you type this under my quote "Please read from page 1 and you know who has been speculating that Ferrari owners will switch to GT-R just because GT-R is better and more reliable." I can only assume you are talking about me.

Anyhow, this has gotten way off topic and my apologies to the thread for that. I should not use it in this manner, so back to talking about cars!

[MotorWerkz]

My mistake on the supercar bit, I could have sworn that's what it said but I see it says otherwise. You don't say the car sucks, yet you speak of it in negative terms. So, I would have to conclude you don't think highly of it. Otherwise you start contradicting yourself by speaking in negative terms.

If you want to come out and call me stupid, by all means knock your socks off. If stupid got me to this point in my life, then I'm a lucky stupid guy...just imagine if I wasn't stupid!

I have no hatred, and to suggest that I have any hatred towards you is wrong. If I am debating you on a forum back and forth or disagree with you that doesn't mean I hate you. It's a forum, a topic, and a discussion. I don't like having my words twisted though, and you tried to do that. When you type this under my quote "Please read from page 1 and you know who has been speculating that Ferrari owners will switch to GT-R just because GT-R is better and more reliable." I can only assume you are talking about me.

Anyhow, this has gotten way off topic and my apologies to the thread for that. I should not use it in this manner, so back to talking about cars!

No Worry, I don't have any hatred towards you either. I wouldn't call you stupid, but I was just asking because you didn't read what I address and yet you said that I was typing gibberish. Oh well. Forgive me if I misunderstood you or vice versa. :cool

[720810]

is this how all threads end up?
if you are right in your opinion there is really no need to defend yourself.

where we go wrong is when we get offended by something we read and assumed
it was directed towards us,when in actuality it was directed towards another ,
and in our self absorbed vanity we lash out at others with our perverbial shit sticks
only to find out the only person we are ever gonna hurt is ourselves...

I was the one who said the bit about ferrari's and lamborghinis ect...and the context
in which I used it was completely misconstrued ,
(largely due to my lack of proper syntax) and for that I appologize,

but still hold firm that the gtr is gonna do alot to the industry in the way that
nothing can compete with it.not for the price not for the practicality,not for the user
friendliness,not for the style,not for anything...there is no
other car in the world that is in the realm of the gtr! the other auto makers are gonna
have to make a whole new car ,or just leave it alone ,much like what happened with
the nsx, the others new they couldn't compete with it at that price so they let it be

the car that was used as inspiration in the developement was surpassed,and that car
is an amazing vehicle.

[Snork]

is this how all threads end up?
if you are right in your opinion there is really no need to defend yourself.

where we go wrong is when we get offended by something we read and assumed
it was directed towards us,when in actuality it was directed towards another ,
and in our self absorbed vanity we lash out at others with our perverbial shit sticks
only to find out the only person we are ever gonna hurt is ourselves...

I was the one who said the bit about ferrari's and lamborghinis ect...and the context
in which I used it was completely misconstrued ,
(largely due to my lack of proper syntax) and for that I appologize,

but still hold firm that the gtr is gonna do alot to the industry in the way that
nothing can compete with it.not for the price not for the practicality,not for the user
friendliness,not for the style,not for anything...there is no
other car in the world that is in the realm of the gtr! the other auto makers are gonna
have to make a whole new car ,or just leave it alone ,much like what happened with
the nsx, the others new they couldn't compete with it at that price so they let it be

the car that was used as inspiration in the developement was surpassed,and that car
is an amazing vehicle.

Thanks, Dr. Phil.

[720810]

I hope you are not refering to my receding hair line:nono

[PenguinScotty]

I will honestly admit that i have not driven the E92 M3 or the new GT-R, but i have driven an R34 as well as, erm.. my E36...

The R34 is a great car. TONS of grip and just hilarious to throw around. The RB26 is a ridiculously good engine, tuning wise. Managing to make a 2.6 this powerful and yet stay that reliable, props Nissan. However, it never really made me go "Wow, i love this car and want to take it home, to my bed and do naughty things". Also, it never really felt right. I tend to buy cars based on gut feeling (And price, naturaly...) and the Skyline never really 'felt' right.
Now i know that alot of people will bitch to me about how cars don't have a 'soul' or the similar, that's fine, to me they do. And if i don't enjoy driving a car, i simply won't buy it unless i have absolutely no choice because if i din't, i will gorged with hot iron rods in my nostrils.

Again, i really can't say anything about the new cars, but it appears that both, Nissan and BMW have started to go the route of driver-detachement. I don't want alot of electronic aids, just the basic things. It just makes me feel like i'm riding in the car instead of driving it and that really adds alot of character to something for me.
I remember reading one of Jeremy Clarksons book on how things have a soul. He hit some interesting points. I remember him talking about how most Japanese manufacturers don't give their cars a 'soul'. Mind you, that's his point of view.

The NSX is a great, great car and the main reason being why it never really took of, from what i've been thinking about, is the fact that Senna died as well as the car lacking the grunt to compete with 'real' supercars. Please don't take this the wrong way, the NSX is an absolutely great engineered car. The chassis is top-notch, but there was just not enough oomph behind that great chassis.

To get back on topic, i really don't like the look of the new GT-R. I dislike the fact that they went from a 2.6 Liter Straight Six to a 3.8 Liter V6, but i can see the need to adapt to emissions regulations. Hopefully that engine works out for them, i really do, but there is just something that makes it taste funny (YES, i'm WEIRD...).
Oh and did anybody notice the line in the Top Gear article about the GT-R? 'That mighty 480bhp twin-turbo straight six is utterly unburstable and awesome in its power'
No comment :P

The GT-R, stock for stock, will definitely beat the new M3, but if i was forced to choose between the two, it would be the M3 still.

Also, i just remembered the slogan of my local BMW dealer: "Be nice to eachother"

Try that :D

[MotorWerkz]

What was your point. It is hard to find a point mixed in with all the drivel. I have highlighted in red the dumb part of your post that make it difficult to pull any intelligent point from your post.

If you can focus for a minute and make a point I will address it.

do you want to read what you've done in this thread?


You don't read much do you or you are very young. Even Enzo Ferrari himself acknowledged the abilities of the NSX and it is the primary reason Ferrari started build much better cars starting with the 355.

who the fuck is this POS?? and where are the mods?
oh let me explain some automotive history to you - you see...Enzo Ferrari died in 1988.... the NSX was released in 1990...:lol - this discussion is so over yourself, that you just started rewriting the history just to fuel your rice hunger, please gtfo and....
stop trolling!


thedaddy = :grenade

Alpine torque = :handclap

nuff said .. you are pwned for your stupidity. No need to point your finger now.

[UtorVita]

If you have enough money to buy either of them, then its all up to the driver. Both are respectable models, I don't see anyone going wrong with either of them. I don't think it is a good idea to make a four page thread about two cars that none of you have ever driven before. What you've all heard and seen translates very roughly when you turn the key. They are both driver's cars, so leave the comparing for those that will drive them.

+1 good post.

These two cars weren't really built for the same reason and therefore make it hard to actually compare side by side. Performance wise (I'm not a huge fan of the GT-Rs looks. I like the older Skylines much better) the GT-R blows the E92 out of the water. That is just fact, really. Skylines have been around for a while and have always performed very well. The M3 is not a supercar and BMW has never ever intended it to be one. E30 - no. E36 - no. E46 - no. E92 - no. They are European freeway/track inspired luxury sports cars. The Skyline and/or GT-R has always been a Japanese supercar. IMO.

Plus, this a BMW enthusiast site. Do you really expect for some of us NOT to be bias about our hobby? Come on.

And I love how some of you throw around the word "fanboy". Like if we only drive BMWs somehow we are label whores. A lot of us have had BMWs most of our driving lives and this is the brand we love to drive. Nissan does make good cars. I love the Skyline. And, yes, maybe if there was a BMW roundel attached to the GT-R instead of a Nissan symbol us "fanboys" would be excited. Get over it, we love BMWs, just like the Nissan guys love Nissans. Of course, if this was a BMW GT-R I'd give it a thumbs down in the looks department.

Nissan made another good stock vehicle. Of course you know some of us don't keep our cars stock for too long. My opinion is that we won't see too many (I'm sure there will be a fair share, don't get me wrong) of personally modded GT-Rs. It'll be a lot of Japanese tuning shops. AND, Nissan IMO doesn't have the same appeal of higher income men/women as BMW or Ferrari has. A baby boomer that buys a Nissan GT-R will most likely keep it stock, while a baby boomer that just purchased an E92 M3 (having owned and drove BMWs a lot of his/her life) might mod it slightly. Thats my opinion.

^^^ All of you E36 big turbo guys on here will have to give me some kill stories when you pass a GT-R on the freeway.

/rant.

[brahtw8]

What I do not know? I was right about NSX being sold from 1990 to 2005, so what did I assume?

You assume exactly what you continue to argue, that the NSX did not change how Ferrari and Porsche and others made their cars. You continue to compound that error below. I have provided two links to show what Luca thought and how it impacted the development of the F355 and 550M.



I didn't say NSX was bad, but to say NSX changed the way supercars were made is a bit misleading. Supercars have been around before NSX was created.

Please stick to what I have in fact said. I did not say 'supercars'. I said Ferrari and Porsche. I never claimed the NSX was the first supercar or even that the NSX was a supercar. It certainly does not qualify for that label today. It is largely a semantic issue, but I consider the NSX more of an exotic than a supercar.



I don't need to argue that.

There is no argument to be made. You need to recognize where the NSX came from and the racing success it has had.



Maybe assuming too much will not be helpful. How can you said Ferrari was forced to address their supercars just because of NSX? F50 was released 5 years after NSX was released and F50 still doesn't have audio, power window and safety features. I don't know where you got this information, but I'm sure it sounds a bit fanboyism.

Again, stop putting words in my mouth. I never claimed that the NSX forced Ferrari to address the F50. I pointed out the indisputable history of the NSX impact on the development of the F355 and the 550M.



Suspected? so assuming? okay. I believe Senna's death didn't really affect how NSX were made.

Unlike most people on this board, when I express an opinion I state it as such. I have not come across any direct statement from Honda to show that Senna's death impacted their enthusiasm for the NSX and thereby hindered its development. Nevertheless, I suspect that to be the case, which is why I used the word 'suspect' rather than claiming it to be absolute truth.



No doubt. even M3 e30 can handle that much power.

I don't think the E30 M3 can handle 650 hp in a road racing application. I am sure you could build an E30 with 1000 hp, but I think the chassis would have problems coping with that much power on a road course. I could be wrong, but I have never seen an E30 race car (as opposed to a drag car) with that kind of power.



NSX's sales were decent until 95, that's where it began to slow down. I have no idea why Honda didn't increase NSX's power output, but I believe if NSX was made more powerful, the sales would increase. Everyone knows, that HP sells.

Close. US 1995 sales were good, better than 1993 and 1994. The decline started in 1996.

We agree about the need for an earlier power upgrade.



Don't get me wrong, I didn't say NSX was bad. It's just that the information from the smartest-wannabe 'thedaddy' is misleading.

I think your dispute with thedaddy led you to go a bit too far in your comments regarding the NSX.

[UtorVita]

^^^ Just saying whats up to a fellow SE Wisconsinite.

And there are E30 race cars with high hp all over the place. Its an amazing track use car. You don't realistically NEED 650hp on a road track to be successful. And there are definitely plenty of E30 drag cars.

I love how this thread turned into an NSX debate.

[thedaddy]

do you want to read what you've done in this thread?




thedaddy = :grenade

Alpine torque = :handclap

nuff said .. you are pwned for your stupidity. No need to point your finger now.

Smurf please.

You = weaksauce.

You again fail to see the influence the NSX has had. That is your problem.

You are so blinded against all things GTR that you make straw man arguments that simply cannot be support.

I realize english is not your first language and give you wide latitude out of respect, but your ideas are still remedial at best.

Please try harder.

:alright

[720810]

The NSX is a great, great car and the main reason being why it never really took of, from what i've been thinking about, is the fact that Senna died as well as the car lacking the grunt to compete with 'real' supercars. Please don't take this the wrong way, the NSX is an absolutely great engineered car. The chassis is top-notch, but there was just not enough oomph behind that great chassis.

:D

how about an ls6 swap into that all aluminum chassis:devillook

[abradic]

I will honestly admit that i have not driven the E92 M3 or the new GT-R, but i have driven an R34 as well as, erm.. my E36...

Again, i really can't say anything about the new cars, but it appears that both, Nissan and BMW have started to go the route of driver-detachement. I don't want alot of electronic aids, just the basic things. It just makes me feel like i'm riding in the car instead of driving it and that really adds alot of character to something for me.

Nice, I wish I was able to try an R34.

Don't the M3 and GT-R allow you to turn off all the driver aides? I think you can disable all of the gizmos.

[UtorVita]

I'm sure you can. Still don't think there is anything to compare about these two cars. I don't think they are made for the same purpose, IMO. But, I'm drunk and stoaked for BimmerFest 08 SON!!!!!

[UtorVita]

neither, exige ftw ;)

jk, to be honest, when compared against the m3, don't the specs of the gtr easily own those of the m3?

Don't even get me started on the Exige. SICK SICK SICK. And yea, you are right. The GT-R and M3 aren't made with the same intentions. I'm curious to see how well the GT-R sells in the States.

[AMDdude]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=943054

fuel to the fire... funny how that thread isn't too popular because the M3 broke after the 2nd lap around, poor guy, he really felt bad for buying the e92

[Danni540]

I would probably choose the M3, and then regret it every time I see a GTR drive past me only to find out I can't catch up...

[UtorVita]

Then mod the M3. :) These cars aren't in the same class from the factory.

[M III Pilot]

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=943054

fuel to the fire... funny how that thread isn't too popular because the M3 broke after the 2nd lap around, poor guy, he really felt bad for buying the e92
Well, it's in the Rides & Styling forum....I for one never go in there.

Secondly, I wonder what condition his braking system was in.
IE fresh or old fluid, track or street pad compound, how much wear, etc... as all those factors play a huge role in braking performance.

[oldMcR]

days and days of the same BS. i am still waiting for the pictures when anyone posting on these forums buys either one of these cars.

if anything, the single most significant similiarity these two cars have is that most of us will never see one in person.

i can count the number of E46 M3s i have been on the track with on one hand over the last three years. and they didn't cost in excess of 70k.

the people that buy these cars will for the most part never use them to their full potential.

i saw a picture of a GT-R at a track several pages back in this thread. oddly, the license plate on the front of the car was from a tuner company. not exactly the Average Joe taking his car to the track.

i'll say it again, 911s Z06s and e36 M3s are and will continue to be the cars we will see at the track. because of course the GT-R crowd can't afford to go to the track and decides to AutoX instead. damn, i crack myself up sometimes.:lol

[thedaddy]

days and days of the same BS. i am still waiting for the pictures when anyone posting on these forums buys either one of these cars.

if anything, the single most significant similiarity these two cars have is that most of us will never see one in person.

i can count the number of E46 M3s i have been on the track with on one hand over the last three years. and they didn't cost in excess of 70k.

the people that buy these cars will for the most part never use them to their full potential.

i saw a picture of a GT-R at a track several pages back in this thread. oddly, the license plate on the front of the car was from a tuner company. not exactly the Average Joe taking his car to the track.

i'll say it again, 911s Z06s and e36 M3s are and will continue to be the cars we will see at the track. because of course the GT-R crowd can't afford to go to the track and decides to AutoX instead. damn, i crack myself up sometimes.:lol

911, Z06s and E36 M3s are common on the track because they are cheap. The C5 Z06 is cheap as a new accord and the other two can be had for far less. If I wanted a slow car I could buy and older 911 and take it to the track and make everyone think I am pure baller.

[the andrew]

Then mod the M3. :) These cars aren't in the same class from the factory.
Great! it's settled then.
.
.
.
.

[MotorWerkz]

911, Z06s and E36 M3s are common on the track because they are cheap. The C5 Z06 is cheap as a new accord and the other two can be had for far less. If I wanted a slow car I could buy and older 911 and take it to the track and make everyone think I am pure baller.

Wow .. you are such a baller .. 911 and Z06 are cheap for you.

Why don't you get one instead of driving your current car? :devillook

If you can't buy it, stop acting like a baller. :stickoutt

[thedaddy]

Wow .. you are such a baller .. 911 and Z06 are cheap for you.

Why don't you get one instead of driving your current car? :devillook

If you can't buy it, stop acting like a baller. :stickoutt

Baller status aside, lots of 911s and C5 Z06s are cheap. That is an objective matter without need for interpretation. I glimpse of autotrader will give you the facts you desire.

I can buy either (or both, but that would be dumb). The reason I do not is I have two small children and kid seat do not fit in either. Plus I have never liked the 911.

I bought the STI so I would have something fun that can still hold two kid seats.

[oldMcR]

911, Z06s and E36 M3s are common on the track because they are cheap. The C5 Z06 is cheap as a new accord and the other two can be had for far less. If I wanted a slow car I could buy and older 911 and take it to the track and make everyone think I am pure baller.

i see this term "baller" tossed around alot on these forums. must be a generational thing. anybody care to define it for me.

as for cheap cars "Pops" sure there are some older P-cars and C5 Z06's have dropped into the mid 20's. but the clubs i run with typically have more than a few 997 GT3s, C6 Z06s, 997 C4Ss, Lotus Exiges etc., etc..

price is not why the GT-R & the E92 M3 will not be regulars at the track. it is the demographic that purchases these cars new. more about street cred than track performance.

heh,heh,heh..... he said "street cred" :stickoutt

[thedaddy]

i see this term "baller" tossed around alot on these forums. must be a generational thing. anybody care to define it for me.

as for cheap cars "Pops" sure there are some older P-cars and C5 Z06's have dropped into the mid 20's. but the clubs i run with typically have more than a few 997 GT3s, C6 Z06s, 997 C4Ss, Lotus Exiges etc., etc..

price is not why the GT-R & the E92 M3 will not be regulars at the track. it is the demographic that purchases these cars new. more about street cred than track performance.

heh,heh,heh..... he said "street cred" :stickoutt

Baller is used for someone who portrays themselves as wealthy.

Pseudo baller or faux baller are people who exaggerate their capital capacity.

All nice cars you stated, but other than the GT3 they are not terribly expensive.

alanhenson is a baller. He has a modded C6 Z06, an F355 Ferrari and a brasilian wife. Many here are faux ballers. I am neither. If I did not have a wife and 2 daughters I could be baller.

[Snork]

Brasillian wife? Too rich for my blood. Do you know what kind of mileage those get?

[PrinceE30]

Baller Status? Someone's actually using this argument or even the term on a BMW forum when we're reasonably trying to discuss the GT-R vs the new M3? This is the reason I've been sticking to the local forums.

The M3 is for the more discerning driver. It's for people who could afford a Ferrari, but went with the Lotus instead. There's something in the BMW design process that gives it a feel unlike any other car. It's the reason the E36 M3 was designated the best handling car over cars like the NSX, Ferrari F355 and other "super cars".

The GT-R will be more for those who have been loyal to JDM brands throughout their youth and are looking to move up to something a little nicer with their higher salaries as they get older. I see these people as the JDM equivalent of Porsche or Corvette owners in terms of those who modify the cars.

As for the car itself, both will have amazing objective performance. They will both be reliable and be incredibly useful on a daily basis. The BMW interior will be nicer (as I believe Nissan/Infiniti still haven't gotten interiors right). Both have very cutting edge designs and can be held up as great achievements in design. Both visually and with the oily bits. The GT-R is edgier and more futuristic, which it should be. It's part of what makes a GT-R. That spaceship-esque look and feel.

Lastly, the part that makes it really hard to chose, is the pedigree. Both cars have legendary motorsports history. The GT-R has been banned in a few cases in various motorsports series as the M3 was in the days of PTG when the 911s started to complain. They both have excellent on track performance and have proven this with many sports car championships. What I'm really looking forward to is that we in the US will finally get to see this great car in series like ALMS. I really look forward to getting a ride in one of these the next time I see one at an autocross. :redspot

[thedaddy]

Baller Status? Someone's actually using this argument or even the term on a BMW forum when we're reasonably trying to discuss the GT-R vs the new M3? This is the reason I've been sticking to the local forums.

The M3 is for the more discerning driver. It's for people who could afford a Ferrari, but went with the Lotus instead. There's something in the BMW design process that gives it a feel unlike any other car. It's the reason the E36 M3 was designated the best handling car over cars like the NSX, Ferrari F355 and other "super cars".

The GT-R will be more for those who have been loyal to JDM brands throughout their youth and are looking to move up to something a little nicer with their higher salaries as they get older. I see these people as the JDM equivalent of Porsche or Corvette owners in terms of those who modify the cars.

As for the car itself, both will have amazing objective performance. They will both be reliable and be incredibly useful on a daily basis. The BMW interior will be nicer (as I believe Nissan/Infiniti still haven't gotten interiors right). Both have very cutting edge designs and can be held up as great achievements in design. Both visually and with the oily bits. The GT-R is edgier and more futuristic, which it should be. It's part of what makes a GT-R. That spaceship-esque look and feel.

Lastly, the part that makes it really hard to chose, is the pedigree. Both cars have legendary motorsports history. The GT-R has been banned in a few cases in various motorsports series as the M3 was in the days of PTG when the 911s started to complain. They both have excellent on track performance and have proven this with many sports car championships. What I'm really looking forward to is that we in the US will finally get to see this great car in series like ALMS. I really look forward to getting a ride in one of these the next time I see one at an autocross. :redspot

I think the stereotypes are not always accurate. Many drivers buy the best car for the money. I for one could not give two poops about "prestige" or "feel". Those are subjective things like "soul" that people turn to in order to support their buying decision.

[PrinceE30]

I think the stereotypes are not always accurate. Many drivers buy the best car for the money. I for one could not give two poops about "prestige" or "feel". Those are subjective things like "soul" that people turn to in order to support their buying decision.

Stereotypes are there for a reason. Though not always a rule, it fits pretty well. That's all I'm saying. I don't agree that most people buy the best car for the money or fastest car for the money. Badge gets a lot of attention these days and people like to show off.

As for you comment about "feel", to some people this is subjective and some it isn't. When you've driven many performance cars of vastly different feel, you can feel if a car is easier to drive on the limit, safer to drive at the limit, more fun to drive due to suspension settings or an engine being tuned for torque and not absolute horsepower. Why would I buy a car that feels like $hite to drive? I drive a BMW because when I am doing a drivers school and on the limit, the engineering that went into my car inspires me to trust the car is going to handle in a way that I feel is safe, yet quick.