Just installed Dr Vanos stage 1

[HolyShti]

So...i installed my new vanos last night from Dr. Vanos. I also recently replaced the top chain tensioner, i think it's called the secondary, and a year or so ago replaced the lower tensioner, the primary one. All of this in an effort to get rid of the noise that sounds like the chain is smacking the valve cover. I only have the noise at idle, not when the car revs.

I am sorry to report that my noise remains :( it is loud and embarrasing. my car still sounds like a diesel truck.

However, while i was in there, i adjusted my timing, which was off to begin with. The performance of the car is noticeably improved. It feels like it has more low end torque, and rips thru the rpm's much faster. It also feels "tighter" or smoother or something as it revs.

Dr. Vanos, do you have any suggestions? Or is the noise i have unfixable?

[Jrdeamicis]

Do you have the spring plate?

[HolyShti]

My motor is an s52...so yes?

[JohnnyScene]

maybe a sticking lifter...

[Calypso-325is]

I would see if its one of the pulleys. I had a problem like that for a while, and it ended up being my alternator pulley.

[HolyShti]

maybe i'll purchase some underdrive pulleys then. and i was so looking forward to dropping more money on parts right after buying this vanos.

[Johno]

Sorry to hear of your expereince. I have a Stage OII kit on the way. My noise isn't near as loud as some of the movie clip samples we're seeing. I hope I'm fixing the right thing. It really sucks dropping money on something that doesn't change a bit.

My npise is more of a dull metallic buzz instead of a marble-rattle. It is much better now with the new primary tensioner I installed. (The one on the side of the motor)



while i was in there, i adjusted my timing,


How did you do this? Where do you learn this? I don't even know how to check the timing, let along adjust it. I would like to make sure this is right while I'm in there.

[HolyShti]

Well, when i set the engine to TDC using the marks on the crank wheel, the exhaust side block didn't sit down on the head. It was surprisingly easy to fix/adjust. You just loosen the torx bolts on the exhaust sprocket, and then push down on the cam block until it's seated. Everything's square now :)

I'm not completely bummed, since it accelerates harder now. But the noise drives me up the wall.

[Johno]

Thanks. I sense I will need to find a local helper if that's possible.

It will be interesting to see with Dr. Vanos says about the lingering noise. This is the first reoport I've found of the noise remaining after the dr. vanos install.

Does your noise sound like that marble-rattle in the videos? I have a light version of that sometimes. But my noise is more like a buzz that comes and goes with the rev. It's the last thing I hear when the engine revs down.

A service tech I trust said to replace the tensioner between the gears.

Is the upper timing chain the one that is between the two gears, or is that a vanos chain?

It sounds like the concensus here is that timing chains don;t go bad. Did I read that wrong? Do you think this (your car or mine) might be a timing chain issue instead of a vanos? Somebody here said replace both, but it appears that upper ctiming chain is one thing, but the lower chain would not be easy.

[HolyShti]

Honestly, i think you could do it yourself, particularly if you're doing the stage 1. I don't know about the stage 2. My timing chain *looks* perfect and tight. And I've been told by a tech that they don't go bad.
I don't have any noise when it's reving. Of course, my exhaust is so loud i don't know if i could hear it anyway. Like i said, when it idles it sounds like the chain is whacking on something. It's kind of a thumping i guess? There's videos on here with the same noise i have.
Yes, the upper chain is the one going between the two gears. I don't think there is such a thing as a vanos chain.
I replaced the upper tensioner. It's easy to do if you're taking the vanos off anyway. My old one seemed as tight as the new one, but i suppose its a good thing to do maintenance wise. And the part isn't expensive.
At this point, I have no idea what my problem is. I might try replacing my pulleys. Your noise sounds like one that is more likely fixable with the new vanos unit.

[Rennmeister M3]

I don't think your issue is a Vanos issue. My car, the black M3 on his video list, was quiet at idle and only rattled when revved. That coincides with the operation of the Vanos.

In other timing chain engines I've owned the only source of a loud rattle at idle was either low oil pressure (unlikely), or a loose tensioner / guide. The sound produced is a 'rolling' clacking noise.

Sounds like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjtzMiHiLQg

[HolyShti]

Mine is more thumping than rolling. I have replaced both tensioners. I did not do the lower plastic guide. I inspected it while doing the install, and it looked tight to me.

[HolyShti]

http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/bfc_ftw/Misc/?action=view&current=Noise.flv

like this, but i would say a bit louder even

[ceegeezM3]

I've had maybe 3 or 4 people (less than 2%) who still had some rattling from the valve train area. Some have had to replace tensioners as well, but I'm honestly not 100% sure where the remaining noise is coming from. It's not the vanos, (tried another unit to make sure) so it's likely something to do with the chain, chain rails, tensioners, or maybe even the cams or lifters. It may even be something different on different cars, but I really hate the fact that I don't have a definitive answer. Hopefully I can track it down soon.

[ceegeezM3]

http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/bfc_ftw/Misc/?action=view&current=Noise.flv

like this, but i would say a bit louder even

That almost sounds like a rod knocking to me.

[HolyShti]

it's sounds like definitely the chain when i listen with a stethescope

[HolyShti]

maybe i'll make a video if my blackberry curve can do video

[HBpredhunter]

dude did you replace the lower guides and the chain?

chains DO stretch over time. they used to have a change interval of 150k now its just when they make noise or when you have to pull the cover off....

[HolyShti]

i dunno. motor only has 60k according to the odom. maybe i will eventually, but i've pulled the valve cover twice in like a week. bmw tech said they don't really wear out?

[M3Rob95]

I am very happy with my vanos but I am one of the 3% with some noise remaining..

I do need to fix a squeeking pully though. Replace tensioner and pullys but the squeek remains :mad

[HolyShti]

poop. so you have two noises. did you identify which pulley it is? or could it be something else like the fan?

[HolyShti]

**UPDATE**
I think i may have found the source of the noise, and will I feel really stupid if this is it. I took another listen with the stethescope, this time trying different pulleys. There was a decent vibration on the alternator tensioner pulley. I'm going to replace it, and we'll see.

I guess i shouldn't feel too dumb if it turns out to be the pulley. A BMW mechanic friend of mine suggested i replace all the timing stuff when he listened to the noise, and it comes through on the timing cover loud and clear.

[Calypso-325is]

**UPDATE**
I think i may have found the source of the noise, and will I feel really stupid if this is it. I took another listen with the stethescope, this time trying different pulleys. There was a decent vibration on the alternator tensioner pulley. I'm going to replace it, and we'll see.

I guess i shouldn't feel too dumb if it turns out to be the pulley. A BMW mechanic friend of mine suggested i replace all the timing stuff when he listened to the noise, and it comes through on the timing cover loud and clear.

That's where I traced down my noise to, and if you put your hand on the alternator you should be able to feel it vibrating. Try to make sure thats it before you take everything apart.

[dshilkit]

http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/bfc_ftw/Misc/?action=view&current=Noise.flv

like this, but i would say a bit louder even

when i had a noise like this, it was my serpentine belt. a chunk was missing out of the ribbed side...

[oraph]

http://s143.photobucket.com/albums/r151/bfc_ftw/Misc/?action=view&current=Noise.flv

like this, but i would say a bit louder even

That is deffinitely not the vanos.. while a vanos does make a noise at idle the knocking is very fast.. not slow and deep.. it's something else.

[racer m]

well ill through my old vid in there, but i replaced tensiors and pulleys and noise stoped.
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g74/racer4life0056/th_Picture.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/albums/g74/racer4life0056/?action=view&current=Picture.flv)

[dcvee]

**UPDATE**
I think i may have found the source of the noise, and will I feel really stupid if this is it. I took another listen with the stethescope, this time trying different pulleys. There was a decent vibration on the alternator tensioner pulley. I'm going to replace it, and we'll see.

I guess i shouldn't feel too dumb if it turns out to be the pulley. A BMW mechanic friend of mine suggested i replace all the timing stuff when he listened to the noise, and it comes through on the timing cover loud and clear.

Yeah, make sure you find out what is REALLY causing the noise. It's simple to remove the belts from the engine and just start it up and see if your noise disappears.

Old story but it fits here; I bought my 95M3 from a guy that was selling it cheap because the engine was "junk". He said it had a rod knocking. So I trailered it home and found out it was the rear alternator bearing. I paid $3,300 bucks for it!!

Don

[M3Rob95]

Yeah, make sure you find out what is REALLY causing the noise. It's simple to remove the belts from the engine and just start it up and see if your noise disappears.

Old story but it fits here; I bought my 95M3 from a guy that was selling it cheap because the engine was "junk". He said it had a rod knocking. So I trailered it home and found out it was the rear alternator bearing. I paid $3,300 bucks for it!!

Don



THATS INCREDIBLE!!

Mine does that sometimes. I bet it is some bearing down there :rolleyes

Maybe when it get warm outside, the grease will work like it should and it wont squeek :dunno :shifty

[HolyShti]

ya, kudos on your score don! I made a video of the noise this morning for posterity. Tonight I'll slip the belts off. That simple test didn't even occur to me.

[stupenal]

ya, kudos on your score don! I made a video of the noise this morning for posterity. Tonight I'll slip the belts off. That simple test didn't even occur to me.

I'd like to try this test tonight. Just remove both belts and run the engine to see if it gets rid of the noise? If the noise goes away, then you know its the pulleys and/or the tensioners that were causing the noise?

Thanks

[HolyShti]

I pulled the belts last night. The noise was still there, but much quieter. It appears the culprit is my crank pulley, the only thing still spinning :mad maybe i can get a used one cheap
Now it makes sense to me that the noise would be so clear through the valve cover. I scoped the vanos, and it was quieter than ever.

[ceegeezM3]

I scoped the vanos, and it was quieter than ever.

Well, I'm glad to hear that!

Thanks for the updates, hopefully you can track down the noise you're hearing.

[HolyShti]

You're still supreme doc :worship:

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g210/vdublv/th_CLIP0026.jpg (http://s57.photobucket.com/albums/g210/vdublv/?action=view&current=CLIP0026.flv)

Here's the noise

[dcvee]

Is the crank pully loose? How can it make noise if there isn't a belt on it?

So you had ZERO noise until you removed your vanos, got it rebuilt, and reinstalled it? Correct? This just seems like it's timing chain related.

Have you played with the tensioner to see if adjusting it changes the tone? I'd leave the belts off while you are investigating. Just don't run the engine hot!! Be careful. It doesn't take long because the water pump isn't even turning.

Don

[HolyShti]

I think the crank pulley is off balance. The previous owner/his mechanic/whomever crossed the threads on 2 of the bolt holes, so there is only i think 4 out of 6 holding it on? I believe i would have to replace the hub to fix that, or retap them. In other words, a PITA. The crank pulley still turns without a belt on it.

No, I had the noise before the new vanos, that was the reason for replacing it. The noise i posted above is after the new vanos, but before i took the belts off.

I played with the upper tensioner, i tried loosening & retightening the top bolt, and that didn't change anything.

I know, i only ran it for like a minute to diagnose.

[dcvee]

I think the crank pulley is off balance. The previous owner/his mechanic/whomever crossed the threads on 2 of the bolt holes, so there is only i think 4 out of 6 holding it on? I believe i would have to replace the hub to fix that, or retap them. In other words, a PITA. The crank pulley still turns without a belt on it.

No, I had the noise before the new vanos, that was the reason for replacing it. The noise i posted above is after the new vanos, but before i took the belts off.

I played with the upper tensioner, i tried loosening & retightening the top bolt, and that didn't change anything.

I know, i only ran it for like a minute to diagnose.

I don't know but if the crank pulley was off THAT much you should be able to see it with your eyes. Take the plugs out and turn the car over using a socket wrench on the crankshaft bolt. See if you can see the pully wobbling.

Glad to hear the tensioner didn't change any noises....that should be good news!!

It's hard to troubleshoot noises:(

[cozmo kraemer]

I had the same rattling noise and thought it was the VANOS, it sounded like a chain slapping my valve cover. I took it into the dealer, cause I was out of ideas. The dealer said it wasn't the VANOS. They came back and told me that I had a bad lifter. I said ok, they replaced all the lifters ($$$$). I got the car back, drove home, got to the driveway and it is making the same sound...

I drove straight back to the dealership. They check the oil pressure at the head and discover it isn't up to spec. Evidently my oil pump had gone bad and so I had it replaced, again ($$$$). Noise gone...

[dcvee]

I had the same rattling noise and thought it was the VANOS, it sounded like a chain slapping my valve cover. I took it into the dealer, cause I was out of ideas. The dealer said it wasn't the VANOS. They came back and told me that I had a bad lifter. I said ok, they replaced all the lifters ($$$$). I got the car back, drove home, got to the driveway and it is making the same sound...

I drove straight back to the dealership. They check the oil pressure at the head and discover it isn't up to spec. Evidently my oil pump had gone bad and so I had it replaced, again ($$$$). Noise gone...

Hmmmm...maybe the oil nut is coming loose and the gear/chain is slapping at low rpm????

You may be on to something.

Holy...did you check that oil nut when you swapped motors?

Don

[cozmo kraemer]

FWIW...The nut on mine was tight, it just wasn't providing adequate pressure to the head. When they put the new pump in I had them locktite the nut, just in case.

I asked if this was a common failure and they said no, that they don't see this kind of failure a lot. However, it seems to me that a lot of people have the same or a very similar sound, it is quite possible it is due to oil pressure.

[HolyShti]

The previous owner had the swap done. I don't think it is the oil pressure, because there is a matching vibration coming from the pulleys. But that's a good thing for other people to check who're struggling with the noise.

[GFG]

I have the same problem. 2 days ago i put my new Dr Vanos unit in. The hard rattle that i had before is gone, but now i have a other rattle that is pissing me off.

I saw your vid but mine rattles quite different....i only have it when i rev it up to about 3k rpm, and then when it falls back i can hear a short, sharp rattle at about 1500rpm. A local engineer told me that when i changed all the chain tensioners and stuff, this noise would be gone. He said he was 250% sure of this. But im really affraid that when i let him fix this, i will still have the sound and payd like 500 euro for nothing :(. Offcourse there is no such thing as guarantee, so if the noise would still be there i will have to pay again to look what is could be then. So i first really need to know what this stupid rattle is!!!

[HolyShti]

You didn't replace the top tensioner when you did the vanos? Have you tried replacing the lower tensioner? You can easily do that yourself.

[GFG]

No i didnt do that. The bmw dealer put in my vanos, costed me about 500 dollar JUST to put the vanos in. Last time they ever saw me, fuckers told me it took almost 4 hours!?!?
To be honest i never did anything to engines. I only did scootertuning.

But im willing to learn.

[BinhM3]

holy crap did they take 3 30min breaks or something?

[GFG]

Dont know...Dr Vanos told me it would take MAX 2 hours...they said it took them 3 hours and 35 minutes. And they charge over 100 euro per hour!!!

But as i said...i want to learn how to do those things myself. Is there a nice how to to do do this?

First of all dr vanos told me that i had to take of the belt, and then listen what happens. But since i dont know nothing about engines, i dont know how to take of the belt :S
I can see the belt, and i know that i have to take off number 7 take take off the belt:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BF33&mospid=47484&btnr=11_1344&hg=11&fg=18

But my fan is in the way! How can i take of the fan? This will be the first thing im going to do on an engine. I know i may sound stupid, but we all had to learn it right? ;)

[M3Rob95]

poop. so you have two noises. did you identify which pulley it is? or could it be something else like the fan?

No fan on my car right now as its still cold outside.

Not sure which pully is squeeking. Tried to listen with a scope to no avail.

I am going to try and change out the alt pully to see if that helps.

So lately my vanos or chain has been getting louder and louder..

I wonder if I need a new one :dunno

[M3Rob95]

No i didnt do that. The bmw dealer put in my vanos, costed me about 500 dollar JUST to put the vanos in. Last time they ever saw me, fuckers told me it took almost 4 hours!?!?
To be honest i never did anything to engines. I only did scootertuning.

But im willing to learn.

On BMW TIS quotes the job as 4 hours.

It really only takes them 2 and they pocket the rest ;)

[GFG]

On BMW TIS quotes the job as 4 hours.

It really only takes them 2 and they pocket the rest ;)

Yeah i know...they took 3 times a coffee and sigaret break or something like that.

But on a dutch forum the guys tell me that they would bet their money on it that it is my chain tensioner. My local engineer also told me chain tensioner, so that's what im going to replace :)

[Johno]

If you are talking about the lower tensioner outside the lower passenger's side of the engine -- that is indeed very easy --

However, I learned after I did it I was supposed to gently compress the thing two times before installing.

Also, before you proceed -- make sure you have the correct size wrrench that will fit down in there and allow you to turn it. On my engine there is a dog-leg in the valve cover, and my wrench was too long to rotate to tighten.

Finally, after you install, and start the engine -- be prepared for a rattle-racket that may alarm you. This is said to be normal.

[HolyShti]

Here is a DIY for the lower tensioner:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/101-Projects-16-Tensioner-Upgrade/101-Projects-16-Tensioner-Upgrade.htm

As recommended in the write up, i purchased as 32 mm socket just for this. I think it cost like $10 - $15, and I'll probably never use it for anything else, but it was a 5 minute job with it :)