M60 to M62 conversion

[FaTi NyC]

hey guys, i currently have a 94 530i, my engine died about 6 months ago, i been looking into getting a M62 for a swap....so i came across a deal yesterday and just picked up a 97 540i with a smashed front...not to heavily, anyways , i picked it up to swap everything into mt E34, motor,trans,rear....do i have to do lots of fabricating? i am doing everything myself in my garage and am in need of help...thank you guys!

[FaTi NyC]

is it possible i can use the 5hp24 in this swap? i am in process of doing everything else that stevie did, thanks alot stevie!! my only issue is that i do not have a manual trans, all i have is 2 autos laying around, a 5hp24 and a 5hp18, would any of these work or do i need to go find myself a 6 speed??

[xatlas0]

is it possible i can use the 5hp24 in this swap? i am in process of doing everything else that stevie did, thanks alot stevie!! my only issue is that i do not have a manual trans, all i have is 2 autos laying around, a 5hp24 and a 5hp18, would any of these work or do i need to go find myself a 6 speed??

The problem with trying to use the 5HP24 is the electronics. Heck, swapping in a 5HP30 would be difficult, as your car wasn't wired with it in mind. The easiest solution is to use a 6 speed.

[FaTi NyC]

im in a bit of trouble then lol, i figured i try and use my original 5hp18 but it looks a whole lot smaller then the 5hp24, i actually just got all my gaskets in today, so im going to start ripping apart today, my only question, ui been reading the forums and i am sorry if this has been covered, if change my upper timing covers, i dont think i would have to shave down the piece inside, i was playing with it yesterday, i put on the cover and put in the sensor nd it cleared perfectly, but then again i could be wrong, i will how ever find out later today and see what happens, once again i am sorry if this was covered already, i been reading this thread for the last 2 months trying to slowly figure this out, thanks again guys......ohh, if anyone has a 6 speed laying around, please let me know, thanks again

[FaTi NyC]

ok, i found a 6 spd from a 2001 540, this will work yes?

[xatlas0]

ok, i found a 6 spd from a 2001 540, this will work yes?

Should work fine.

[stevie c]

mine runs a 5hp30, and its been a massive headache getting it to work with omex management, finally got it, but had to keep the stock dme live to run the gbox dme!.. hopefully mine will be back from the rolling road next week.. I'll post pics and dyno chart as and when!
stevie

[FaTi NyC]

awesome, i am going to go ahead and pick it up today, found a guy near by parting one out with 74k on it, i will be picking it up today and hopefully have her up and running by the end of this weekend, so i am a bit confusd on the tuning part, do i or do i no need to tune dme?

[FaTi NyC]

thanks alot, i couldnt have done it without you, i hope to get her up and going this week, i do need to do a tune dont i before i try to even start the car ?

[xatlas0]

thanks alot, i couldnt have done it without you, i hope to get her up and going this week, i do need to do a tune dont i before i try to even start the car ?

If you were going to a M60B40, I'd just get the stock chip for that, for starters. That would still likely work well enough until you could get a custom tune done. I'd be wary of trying to use the B30 tune, as the engine is ~50% larger in terms of displacement, and the tune may not have the range required to adequately fuel that. It might be ok at idle, but certainly no driving.

[FaTi NyC]

can you help me get in the right direction? who do i call or email? how do i post pics on here? ? ?

[FaTi NyC]

hey guys....is it possible to use a 5 speed from a 95 530i???

[xatlas0]

hey guys....is it possible to use a 5 speed from a 95 530i???

Yes, but you will have no overdrive, so expect your highway RPMs to be on the high side.

[FaTi NyC]

i hope it will hold out for a few months till i come across a 6 speed for a decent price, i actually picked up a 1994 6/93 PRODUCTION DATE 530i yesterday for 400 bucks as a parts car, it is a manual, reason why i bought it, so i was planning on taking what i needed from there......is there a way to mount the starter onto to the engine without the trans being on..?

[xatlas0]

i hope it will hold out for a few months till i come across a 6 speed for a decent price, i actually picked up a 1994 6/93 PRODUCTION DATE 530i yesterday for 400 bucks as a parts car, it is a manual, reason why i bought it, so i was planning on taking what i needed from there......is there a way to mount the starter onto to the engine without the trans being on..?

The starter? It is bolted to the block by two, large bolts in the engine bay, with the starter fitting into a hole in the block. The transmission should have nothing to do with it, aside from the flywheel ring gear teeth meshing with the starter teeth.

[moroza]

The starter? It is bolted to the block by two, large bolts in the engine bay, with the starter fitting into a hole in the block. The transmission should have nothing to do with it, aside from the flywheel ring gear teeth meshing with the starter teeth.

Those two mounting bolts go through the trans bellhousing. You can't use them without a bellhousing in place (they're too long), but you could probably use shorter bolts if all you want to do is start the engine without a trans in place.

[FaTi NyC]

ahhhh...shorter bolts, thank you for your brain lol...yea i just want to start her up and her it running, make sure all is well before i put the trans in....i do have another issue though too, im going to look into it tomorrow, see what i come up with,...for some reason,,,soon as i connect the battery, the starter kicks on, i checked wiring, everything was correct...any ideas?.....who can i talk to about a tune? people have been telling me its not gonna run right at all untill i get it tuned??

[FaTi NyC]

have any of you guys swapped from auto to manual? are the support brackets for the foot pedals the same? i did a cross reference check on realoem and it shows they are, but mine are different unless i am not seeing something... ? any help or idea would be greatful, thanks in advance :)

[yaofeng]

The auto and 6 speed (or 5 speed) pedal brackets are different. See picture.

http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b274/yaofengchen/BMW_95_540/DSC_3242.jpg

[mikeday1036]

Heya, everybody.

A FS thread (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11872882#post11872882) got me thinking about the real differences in the M60 and M62. The E38 used both engines, with little to no mounting changes, so that means the blocks are virtually identical, for mounting purposes.

The real rub comes when trying to convert the M62 (not M62TU) to OBD-I. Based on some realoem research, at a minimum, you would need:
M60 Both upper timing covers
M60 Lower timing cover
M60 belt-driven equipment (alt is different. M62's is water cooled, I think)
M60 harness
M60 throttle body / TPS
M60 harmonic balancer / pulley system
M60 DME
M60 intake manifold
M60 oil pan
M62 long block
M62 OBD-I tune



What else do you guys think would be required?


The oil pan works out to be the same from an e39 atleast, I'm pretty sure e38 works too. By my measurements the engine mount arms are almost the same dimensions too.

[FaTi NyC]

yea, i figured they are different, thank you very much for the reply and help, i did the m60 to m60 conversion, well im not done yet, but originally it was automatic, so i bought a 94 530i manual as a parts car and i noticed the foot control bracket is different, even though when you cross reference on REALOEM it shows the same part number being used in all, auto and manual, seems to be different after all, wel im gonna get at it today and make it work, i know the clutch pedal has a small bracket where the spring on the clucth pedal hits which my auto foot control does not have, thanks again guys.....how do i post pics up here??

sorry about that, i meant m60 to m62...lots of fun to do...did u guys change the engine mount brackets? take from the m60?

[FaTi NyC]

wow guys, this auto to manual swap with the pedals and lines, WOW, what a job huh? or was it just me that had a rediculous hard time, i am trying to figure out how to post pics, i have pics of the whole swap, can someone help me and explain to me how to post the pics, i am sort of a computer moron, thanks again guys

[pony317]

Hey MacR ,
I am new to the Bimmer thing and have read a lot in here.
I seen that you are in IN. and some what close to me.
I was wondering if you could or would be willing to talk to me and help me with my E34 540i.

I added you on my Aim as a friend but your never on to talk to.

Hey MacR ,seen your in Indiana also was wondering if you would help me with my
E34 540i .
i seen your on Aim i added you but your never on.

[MacR]

Hey MacR ,
I am new to the Bimmer thing and have read a lot in here.
I seen that you are in IN. and some what close to me.
I was wondering if you could or would be willing to talk to me and help me with my E34 540i.

I added you on my Aim as a friend but your never on to talk to.

Hey MacR ,seen your in Indiana also was wondering if you would help me with my
E34 540i .
i seen your on Aim i added you but your never on.

Hey there, where in IN are you located? I don't mind helping out the locals.

[FaTi NyC]

hey guys, i got a question, i still havent put the car completley together yet, i just picked up a 6 spd from a 99 540i, now since my car i did the swap to was a 5 spd 530i and not a 540i would i have to change the drive shaft to fit the 6spd in or would it be a direct swap???

[xatlas0]

hey guys, i got a question, i still havent put the car completley together yet, i just picked up a 6 spd from a 99 540i, now since my car i did the swap to was a 5 spd 530i and not a 540i would i have to change the drive shaft to fit the 6spd in or would it be a direct swap???

Yes, the 5 and 6 speed transmissions are different lengths.

[FaTi NyC]

yea i kind of figured that, the car has been sitting on jack stands for the last months, i havent been near it due to lots of overtime at work, but i had a friend give me a call and donated me a 99 540i sport 6 speed that a tenant of his left behind, the engine timing chain guide rail broke and the guy just left the car behind, so now i got it sitting in my driveway...so now i would need a E34 540i manual drive shaft?? or can i use the one out of the 99 540i?

[xatlas0]

yea i kind of figured that, the car has been sitting on jack stands for the last months, i havent been near it due to lots of overtime at work, but i had a friend give me a call and donated me a 99 540i sport 6 speed that a tenant of his left behind, the engine timing chain guide rail broke and the guy just left the car behind, so now i got it sitting in my driveway...so now i would need a E34 540i manual drive shaft?? or can i use the one out of the 99 540i?

You will need the E34 driveshaft. Alternatively, you could have your current driveshaft shortened by a driveshaft shop. Should be about 300$.

[FaTi NyC]

great news lol, so i shall be on a hunt then looking for one, if you come across one please let me know it would be greatly appreciated...i am dying to get it on the road and feel it out, thanks again, i couldnt do it it without you and everyone else on the forum :)

[mikeday1036]

You will need the E34 driveshaft. Alternatively, you could have your current driveshaft shortened by a driveshaft shop. Should be about 300$.



:confused The driveshaft shop down the street from me cut and welded the e39 flange on my 525 shaft plus balance for $135....

[walerich]

Hello Guys,

What a wonderful discussion. I need help for my specific conversion. I have a 1995 E38 M60 auto transmission with a dead cylinder and thinking of swapping the engine with a 1998 E38 M62 engine. I have both the M62 engine and auto transmission. What do I need to change on this engine. I know it is possible with 5 series and I am hoping someone here can help out.

Thanks

[T444E]

Is the M62 from the 1998 a VANOS? I know the changeover date was sometime in 98/99.

[walerich]

No the M62 engine is not a Vanos. They did not start making vanos engines untill 1999, according to e38.org

[84318i]

Good thread, just finished reading all 12 pages. I am shopping for a m60/m62 and it seems that m60 is actually better than the m62 due to better valve train and timing components?

Also, converting 96-99 (obd2 non vanos) m62 to look and act just like the 93-95 non vanos m60b40 requires either mounting/welding front timing sensor OR (please confirm if this is possible) removing m62 front timing covers to install older m60 covers. But is this doable or not, it seems that someone has mentioned that the timing chain guides or rails do not transfer over?

Could someone please confirm if the timing covers and components (chains/tentioners/guides etc) can be removed from the non vanos m60b40 from the 93-95 years and be installed on the m62 from the 96-99 engines as a direct plug and play swap?

Thanks!

[moroza]

This thread needs to be locked or something; it's become enormous, and we're answering the same questions over and over because the original answers are impossible to find, or contradictory. I've already addressed the timing covers issue at least once. So, one more time... *deep breath*

You can swap M60 timing covers and gear if you do one of the following bits of custom fabrication: spacers for M60 cams to fit onto M62 heads, or M62-bore headgaskets to mount M60B40 heads onto the M62 block. Otherwise, no.

[84318i]

Hmm, m60b40 heads onto m62 block sounds more solid. BUT, can you confirm if the lower timing mechanim and all have to be swapped from m60b40 to match the b40 heads or what? Has anybody done this?

[K Fox]

Hmm, m60b40 heads onto m62 block sounds more solid. BUT, can you confirm if the lower timing mechanim and all have to be swapped from m60b40 to match the b40 heads or what? Has anybody done this?

Yes. Check his build thread, he has pics there too that go over the process. There are several other build threads that cover it also - this thread started as an info thread, not a build. And the various build threads have more detail on the encountered issues and their solutions. Good luck.

Fox

[naika]

Hello,
I found most of my answers in this thread, so thanks to all of you guys who took the time to document this conversion.
I'm swapping an M62 in my e30 and therefore I am converting to OBD1
Out of all the mods needed, I have no issue but with one of them, the Cam sensor modification seems to be a bit complicated and I'm a little unsure with it.
Is it possible to reuse the M62 sensor and rewire to the M60 harness? Any other options to plug the sensor to the M60 harness?

Thanks again!

[TGreene]

Is it possible to reuse the M62 sensor and rewire to the M60 harness? Any other options to plug the sensor to the M60 harness?


I also am curious about this.

I am also curious about swapping out the crank pulleys (Post #134). Is that necessary? I so, what is involved in doing so? I am afraid of running into very tight bolts that would give me a hard time with hand tools.

[xatlas0]

I also am curious about this.

I am also curious about swapping out the crank pulleys (Post #134). Is that necessary? I so, what is involved in doing so? I am afraid of running into very tight bolts that would give me a hard time with hand tools.

You need to remove the crank pulley to get to the harmonic balancer, which has the crank trigger used with the M60 CPS. The pulley bolts aren't all that tight, the one large one is the one that is torqued to a crazy amount, and that is linked to the crank and the lower front timing cover.

I seriously doubt you could just use the M62 CPS position and data, as the output from the M60 CPS and M62 CPS should be quite different. As I understand it, the M62 CPS uses a single trigger from the flywheel. The M60 CPS uses a toothed harmonic balancer, so it gets multiple pulses on a single rotation. If you tried to use the M62 CPS system with a M60 DME, it would probably think the engine is going much slower than it actually is, if it ran at all.

[TGreene]

You need to remove the crank pulley to get to the harmonic balancer, which has the crank trigger used with the M60 CPS. The pulley bolts aren't all that tight, the one large one is the one that is torqued to a crazy amount, and that is linked to the crank and the lower front timing cover.

I seriously doubt you could just use the M62 CPS position and data, as the output from the M60 CPS and M62 CPS should be quite different. As I understand it, the M62 CPS uses a single trigger from the flywheel. The M60 CPS uses a toothed harmonic balancer, so it gets multiple pulses on a single rotation. If you tried to use the M62 CPS system with a M60 DME, it would probably think the engine is going much slower than it actually is, if it ran at all.

Hmm, very interesting information about the M60 and M62 CPSs.

You DO NOT need to remove the jesus bolt to get the crank pulley and harmonic balancer off, correct?

[T444E]

I believe Moroza said you DO have to remove it, it's one thing that's really holding me back.

[xatlas0]

I believe Moroza said you DO have to remove it, it's one thing that's really holding me back.

Looking at the diagram, and based on my experience with other BMW engines, you should be able to undo the 8 or so smaller bolts then shimmy the balancer/pulley combo off. But, if Moroza had to do it, then I guess you have to do it.

[moroza]

You don't have to remove the big bolt to get the pulley/harmonic balancer off, but it does have to come off to remove the lower timing cover.

[TGreene]

You don't have to remove the big bolt to get the pulley/harmonic balancer off, but it does have to come off to remove the lower timing cover.

Which is not an issue if you are just going to weld on a CKP bracket, correct?

I have been shopping for an M60B40 and am having a hard time, so am trying to make sure I will be able to modify an M62 before I start looking for one of them instead.

[mikeday1036]

Which is not an issue if you are just going to weld on a CKP bracket, correct?

I have been shopping for an M60B40 and am having a hard time, so am trying to make sure I will be able to modify an M62 before I start looking for one of them instead.


If you can get someone to weld aluminum while its on your engine thats awesome!

I think i'm going to try and make a bolt on bracket for a cps to avoid all that

[T444E]

If you can get someone to weld aluminum while its on your engine thats awesome!

I think i'm going to try and make a bolt on bracket for a cps to avoid all that

Someone already did....

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14170435&postcount=134

[naika]

Hi
What technic do you guys use to remove this? I tried with a 20" long bar and broke my socket :(
Any ideas?

Thanks
Franck

[TGreene]

If you can get someone to weld aluminum while its on your engine thats awesome!

I think i'm going to try and make a bolt on bracket for a cps to avoid all that

Let me know if you start making them to sell.

[mikeday1036]

Someone already did....

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=14170435&postcount=134

oh cool, but i'm gonna try for a less ugly one


Let me know if you start making them to sell.

will do sir

[T444E]

Meh doesn't matter to me what it looks like, as long as it functions.

[mikeday1036]

to some i guess

[TGreene]

Making more notes after going through this mammoth thread.

EWS will not be an issue when using an M60 404 ECU right?

[naika]

Hi Guys,

I went through the conversion this weekend!
Can someone confirm if the camshaft wheel is well positioned?

on the picture, I am at TDC, with the flywheel pined and camshafts all set to TDC. I had to turn the pick up wheel (the one I cut) at a 180 degree angle on the sprocket.
Basically, if I reinstalled the way if was before, the tab would be looking upwards.
I duplicated the work done by Stevie C, but i'm unsure on this specific point.
Basically, at TDC, the tab is positioned right next to the Sensor itself.

PIcs will help, if someone can give his 0.02$

Thanks a lot

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb173/franckleprodhomme/Swap%20V8/IMG00054-20110402-1617.jpg

At TDC, the tab is right before the sensor (on the pic it is right after)

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb173/franckleprodhomme/Swap%20V8/IMG00057-20110402-1651.jpg

[naika]

Anybody around to confirm?
thanks

[Yahweh]

What about m60b30 heads on a 4.4?

[naika]

Hi Guys,
Is anyone still checking this thread out?
I have used the car with the conversion, it starts fine, runs, I have a Mark D chip for the extra displacement, but I have the feeling the engine is really strong all the way up to 5 500 rpm and then, it feels like it is weakening up.

I first thought it was the OEM chip in the ECU, made for a 4.0 that was doing this, but after installing the Mark D chip, nothing has changed.

Could this be O2 sensor related? if one of them is dead (or both)?
When I got my harness, the part for the O2 sensors was cut off, so I had to re-wire. If I made a mistake and wired the left one to the right side, could this cause the problem I'm facing?

I would greatly appreciate if those of you who went through the conversion could give their suggestions.

Thanks a lot
Franck

[moroza]

That's just the powerband of the M62: fat gob of torque 2500-5500, not much up top. Its cam profile has shorter duration and less lift than the M60, and its peak torque is 600RPM lower, one of the lowest of non-turbo BMW engines. Stock intake and exhaust are also slightly restrictive. There are some tweaks you can do (see this info about altering cam timing (http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/775197)), but short of M60 or aftermarket cams, there's not much to be done to alter the powerband.

You've seen my thread about an M60 head swap, for the hotter cams and higher compression?

[DarkSideofWill]

That's just the powerband of the M62: fat gob of torque 2500-5500, not much up top. Its cam profile has shorter duration and less lift than the M60, and its peak torque is 600RPM lower, one of the lowest of non-turbo BMW engines. Stock intake and exhaust are also slightly restrictive. There are some tweaks you can do (see this info about altering cam timing (http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/775197)), but short of M60 or aftermarket cams, there's not much to be done to alter the powerband.

You've seen my thread about an M60 head swap, for the hotter cams and higher compression?

That's a pretty sweet link. I'll have to try that when I build a frankenstein M60B44 and drop it into an E36.

[naika]

Thanks for the info Moroza,
I have identified a problem with the engine though, I know it lacking power up there, I replaced the ECu as it seemed to overheat, and I also checked my cylinder 2 coil as it gave me a 49 error code on the diagnosis (on top of the 210 code)
The car runs strong but not on all the powerband, and I wonder if a sensor or maybe MAF could be the cause.

It is frustrating actually as I know there is something wrong, but can't quite find the reason.

[DarkSideofWill]

That's just the powerband of the M62: fat gob of torque 2500-5500, not much up top. Its cam profile has shorter duration and less lift than the M60, and its peak torque is 600RPM lower, one of the lowest of non-turbo BMW engines. Stock intake and exhaust are also slightly restrictive. There are some tweaks you can do (see this info about altering cam timing (http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/775197)), but short of M60 or aftermarket cams, there's not much to be done to alter the powerband.

You've seen my thread about an M60 head swap, for the hotter cams and higher compression?

Seen any dyno results for the cam timing change?

[moroza]

Nope.

I'm becoming "done" with playing with E34's. Don't have room in my life anymore for 2wd things that sit less than a foot off the ground. I'm going to do some minor fixes and the rest of the interior work on my wagon, but no major tuning projects like M60 heads or tweaked timing. I still have an Alusil B40 sitting on a stand. Need to get around to selling that...

[bemmerguy714]

So got my self in a bit of a freak engine setup situation.

Basically I have an e30 that has a m62 engine (nonvanos) with an m60 intake manifold (higher flowing) running on the m60 404 dme. I did the conversion to the right side trigger off the cam, and welded the m60 cranksensor off the front crankcase of the m60 onto the m62.

The good news is the car starts and runs. I know the car needs a tune bad now. It takes a while to start (and usually i need to push the gas for it to start). It misfires alot, sputters etc. ( not entirely sure that the dme is the ONLY thing causing this but figured its where I should start). I didnt think the 4.0 to 4.4 would make it run that bad.

My question is this though. Is there a shop that I can take the car to in so cal that will basically burn the m62 maps onto the m60 dme? ( I hope in SO cal area but I can tow to la)

I know people are not getting tunes for e34 dmes all the time so I guess my second resort would be to send the ecu to someone who could burn the m62 data on there to at least make the car drivable.

Suggestions are welcome.

[Shoomakan]

M62 and M60 Non vanos intakes are the same size. So there are no gains there. Only the M62 vanos engine benefits from the M60 intake.

To my knowledge, there shouldn't be any problems with it running at idle or at low RPMs. The tune is only to compensate for the fuel required by the extra displacement. But I might be wrong.

[xatlas0]

M62 and M60 Non vanos intakes are the same size. So there are no gains there. Only the M62 vanos engine benefits from the M60 intake.

To my knowledge, there shouldn't be any problems with it running at idle or at low RPMs. The tune is only to compensate for the fuel required by the extra displacement. But I might be wrong.

The M60 manifold flows better at high RPMs than the non-VANOS M62 manifold because it has internal velocity stacks, while the M62 manifold lacks them.

[bemmerguy714]

M62 and M60 Non vanos intakes are the same size. So there are no gains there. Only the M62 vanos engine benefits from the M60 intake.

To my knowledge, there shouldn't be any problems with it running at idle or at low RPMs. The tune is only to compensate for the fuel required by the extra displacement. But I might be wrong.



Hmmm Im wondering if there is multiple issues then. Has anyone who done the swap been able to drive the car without a tune?

The car sputters alot. I thought it was the tune but im wondering if theres multiple issues. Almost feels like a bad o2 sensor or vaccum leak? Ill take a closer look tonight... :help

[84318i]

M62 and M60 Non vanos intakes are the same size. So there are no gains there. Only the M62 vanos engine benefits from the M60 intake.

To my knowledge, there shouldn't be any problems with it running at idle or at low RPMs. The tune is only to compensate for the fuel required by the extra displacement. But I might be wrong.

Have you seen the tunes on both, are the factory cams lift and duration the same on both M60 and M62....?

Give us details :)

[moroza]

My car had no problems starting and moving (very slowly) on a B30 chip. It also ran fine with a B40 chip up to about 60% throttle, past that it would bog a little. Fuel economy was terrible (12-15) and my AFR's were over 15, but no sputtering, hard starting, or anything like that. You've got other problems...

M60 and M62 cam lift and duration are significantly different. I'm sure the fuel and ignition maps reflect this; it's not just 10% more fuel.

[84318i]

^my thinking as well.

[sticky280zx]

Yeah, youre going to have to go standalone or spend a decent chunk of time on a dyno with a chip burner/someone that can make a map, thats the not so cost effective-ess part of the swap (that i see so far)....i thought i read that Mark D?? or someone had made chips for this swap though?

[bemmerguy714]

My car had no problems starting and moving (very slowly) on a B30 chip. It also ran fine with a B40 chip up to about 60% throttle, past that it would bog a little. Fuel economy was terrible (12-15) and my AFR's were over 15, but no sputtering, hard starting, or anything like that. You've got other problems...

M60 and M62 cam lift and duration are significantly different. I'm sure the fuel and ignition maps reflect this; it's not just 10% more fuel.

Thanks for the response. I really hope i did the conversion right. I thought the coils my might be my problem so i switch the m60 ones for the m62 coils (the m60 coils were modified to fit the m62 valve cover).

Runs the same. Long time to start, only starts with gas. When its warm takes even longer to start. Same as before really. When driving its heavily misfiring. (weirdly though it stops misfiring and is smooth in the mid range rpm.

I think the knock sensors are shot because they dont do anything whether they are plugged in or not. Just ordered 4 fresh ones. Dont know if those will help at all.

I hope if didnt mess the timing up when I did the change over. Really don't want to take the whole engine apart again.

I have decided to go with a war chip though as members have been able to download a m62 file for the 404 ecu with war chip. I think thats my best bet until I find a reputable bmw dyno shop in the SOcal area to tune the car. Kinda hoping that if I did change the timing a tune could compensate? Thinking our loud.

Thank you in advance.

[K Fox]

I'll throw it out again - carefully check for vacuum leaks. It's sounding like there's one or two in there still, which will make the engine run that much leaner. it's already a bit lean from the extra displacement - any more extra air is quite bad. Triple check, then check again. Or do a smoke test and know for sure. ;)

Fox (it's always vacuum leaks, isn't it? :stickoutt)

[DarkSideofWill]

With a MAF based engine, it doesn't even have to be a vacuum leak... *any* unmetered air, even sneaking in between the throttle and MAF will do it.

[K Fox]

With a MAF based engine, it doesn't even have to be a vacuum leak... *any* unmetered air, even sneaking in between the throttle and MAF will do it.

Well, ok...yeah. You're right - I just consider that under the umbrella of 'vacuum leaks'. It's not really said that way much, but yes, it is true that you need to check the piping from the MAF all the way thru the intake system for leaks. S'why I say smoke test so much - set it up to blow smoke from the point where the MAF attaches normally and you'll find all of the leaks easily. ;)

Fox

[DarkSideofWill]

I had some driveability problems with my 535i for a bit... I eventually found that the rubber feet securing the AFM has torn, leaving the AFM essentially just sitting there. It had moved just enough to pop the bottom edge of the duct from it to the throttle off the throttle, allowing unmetered air into the engine. It was almost impossible to see from visual inspection and required taking the ducting apart to find it. Everything cleared up when I researed that duct.

[moroza]

Intake leaks or a bad TPS sounds like your problem.

[bemmerguy714]

Thanks for the responses guys. I sprayed it heavily with carb cleaner but nothing showed. I will try the smoke test and check TPS.

I have a feeling I did something with the timing conversion however. The service manual kinda had me confused. :( When I installed the cam tools, for TDC, the service manual said that the crank position sensor should be at the .45 mark (well it says to leave it there, but I was unsure if thats what it meant).

However I asked online and a family friend said to put it on the 0T mark. So thats what we did. (checked it by rotation and it hits nothing).

However after how badly it ran, I took it apart again (not completly), it doesnt make sense. At that .45 degree mark the modified "trigger" is just passed the Camshaft position sensor. I was under the impression it was suppose to be slightly before it?

1 - So its either that my timing is off (too far advance possibly? starts hard so thats why I am assuming this).

2 - The camshaft trigger is placed in the wrong place? Is it before the sensor? On? after?

(side note: I cannot use the stock pin hole to find tdc on the flywheel because its a jbracing lightweight m60 flywheel.)

Its open again now so might as well check it. Running out of ideas. Til I hear from someone, ill check the basic things you guys told me to check. :help

[bemmerguy714]

Did the smoke thing.

Nothing......

Check the TPS. Its within spec.

Im running out of ideas!

[moroza]

Post another thread. You'll probably get more responses. This one is too damn big.

[DUDMD]

Anyone in the PNW region that has this swap done? I'm thinking of doing an OBD1 M62 in my 540i/6 later, but I will not be on the stock DME by that time.
I'm willing to tune an M62 OBD1 conversion to have the tune available for more swaps.

[MonkeyMadness]

I know this treads been dead a while but I'm hoping your all still watching it!


Hi Guys,

I went through the conversion this weekend!
Can someone confirm if the camshaft wheel is well positioned?

on the picture, I am at TDC, with the flywheel pined and camshafts all set to TDC. I had to turn the pick up wheel (the one I cut) at a 180 degree angle on the sprocket.
Basically, if I reinstalled the way if was before, the tab would be looking upwards.
I duplicated the work done by Stevie C, but i'm unsure on this specific point.
Basically, at TDC, the tab is positioned right next to the Sensor itself.

PIcs will help, if someone can give his 0.02$

Thanks a lot

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb173/franckleprodhomme/Swap%20V8/IMG00054-20110402-1617.jpg

At TDC, the tab is right before the sensor (on the pic it is right after)

http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb173/franckleprodhomme/Swap%20V8/IMG00057-20110402-1651.jpg


Hi Guys,
Is anyone still checking this thread out?
I have used the car with the conversion, it starts fine, runs, I have a Mark D chip for the extra displacement, but I have the feeling the engine is really strong all the way up to 5 500 rpm and then, it feels like it is weakening up.

I first thought it was the OEM chip in the ECU, made for a 4.0 that was doing this, but after installing the Mark D chip, nothing has changed.

Could this be O2 sensor related? if one of them is dead (or both)?
When I got my harness, the part for the O2 sensors was cut off, so I had to re-wire. If I made a mistake and wired the left one to the right side, could this cause the problem I'm facing?

I would greatly appreciate if those of you who went through the conversion could give their suggestions.

Thanks a lot
Franck

Ok so I'm in the process of doing this conversion on my E30 swap and I'm a little confused as to WTF? my shit is different and looks to be easier to set but I need feed back as I'm new to this motor in a whole...

In the post above he said he had to rotate the cam pickup wheel 180* to get the "New" pickup point to line up just before the pickup censor.

In the process of setting my motor up for the conversion going to top Dead center, and pulling the cam wheel cover I noticed the pickup point on the cam wheel. I also noticed the pickup point next to it as well..
I was thinking of using this point. but I need people who are in the know to let me know before I destroy this part....

this is the pickup wheel with censor removed.
http://i48.tinypic.com/ay26o7.jpg

This is the same shot from above.
http://i45.tinypic.com/24px85c.jpg

This is with the (M60) cam censor installed.
http://i50.tinypic.com/o94dih.jpg

Ok so this is where my confusion comes in.
If you look at his picture, his point is way off from the TDC point.
I don't understand how to get his point to line up with out having my cams way out of wack.
http://i45.tinypic.com/2eo9uom.jpg

Another veiw..
http://i50.tinypic.com/k3k7yx.jpg

Now for my looming question???
Can I / Should I use the pickup point I have marked in the picture.
All my marks are dead nutz. Cams, TDC, Cam wheel.

1. Why is his so different than mine?

2. Should I use my mark?

http://i47.tinypic.com/scdqi0.jpg

Any feed back would be helpful...

[84318i]

Was it maybe roated around the cam mounting points and that's why one is off?

[MonkeyMadness]

Yes. I forgot to say i flipped my cam wheel 180° like he did but if you notice the cam bolt in line with the tdc mark on the wheel. I can't get his trigger point to line up with my censor. I'm stumped as to what to do.
I'm thinking that if everything is lined up right i shouldn't have an issue just using my pickup point as long as its lined up like his, right on the edge (before) of the cam censor




Sent from my LG-LS970 using Tapatalk 2

[MonkeyMadness]

Ok WTF people...

I just noticed that the cams I have and the cams everybody else has is different. If you look at Steve's and Naika's cams at TDC the bolts are 3 left and 3 right of TDC
and if you look at my cam bolts at TDC my bolts are inline 12 o'clock and at 6 o"clock. This seems to be the issue with why my shit is soo different to everybody elses.
Ok so back story for my motor. Its a 1998 M62 Non Vanos 4.4 130K on the clock. After inspection the motor looks to have had a full timing tuneup before I acquired the motor.
I have had a hell of a time trying to get my timing cam wheel to line up like everybody elses. I'm finally gave into the fact my shit is different.. the story of my life...lol
So with a perfect timing setup and everything set, trigger wheel moded... I'm just looking for some one to back me up or tell me to sell my shit and buy a V-tec...lol

This Shot Shows my cam Lobes at TDC
449781
This is a Shot of my bolts and trigger at TDC
449782
This is the Crank at TDC, have the motor on a stand that dose not allow for the
Flywheel to lock in place with Wheel pin.
449783
This is to show my Cam bolts at TDC my stuff looks nothing like
anybody elses... WTF
449784
This is to show my cams Are at TDC, with the cam alignment removed.
449785
Another Shot of the cam bolts at TDC
http://i47.tinypic.com/2ec3rkw.jpg
Cam trigger wheel Modified..
http://i49.tinypic.com/1235zxd.jpg

Please some one tell me I'm ok with this setup.... ugh

[84318i]

Post part numbers of each cam/location and I'll compare. I have a 97 or 98 m62b44 heads/cams on the shelf.

[danieljames]

Is it running?

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[danieljames]

I have an m60 b40 from an early e34 540i in my 99 740iL! It's running a 98 740i harness and 5hp 24 trans. Looks like this would fix my running problems.

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[e38Eric]

Anybody putting M60 heads on the M62 and remaining obd2?

[e38Eric]

All this talk here about building an obd1 m60b44, what about obd2, wrong thread?

[danieljames]

My application is a 99 740iL running an M60B40 with a 98 dme/harnesshttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161205/03475a6b1862fc6294fd1327c9c07bc1.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161205/03429a37cc0224cd2a281b868dcd0d3a.jpg
I've just shipped my dme out for a software fix. May have also has an issue with the AST controller flap.

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[e38Eric]

Sweet! So all you needed to do was machine the driven cam sprockets and make gaskets for the upper timing covers?

- - - Updated - - -

And how different does it drive? Was it much of an improvement?

[danieljames]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161205/28328426f0bedab4975405eace63f1ca.jpg
Just this. Everything else is stock m60 b40. Running on a 98 740i harness for the 5hp24 trans in my 99 740iL!
Drives great once warmed up and after 3300 rpm. Has some programming issues so waiting for the dme newly programmed to get back.

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[e38Eric]

Which cams are those?

- - - Updated - - -

Looks like the m62

[danieljames]

The image is a non vanos early m62, I had the same timing trigger adaptation to my even earlier dual chain m60.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161206/67a843dbd0cdbf235a927e96821bca80.jpg for the 98 740i harness, dme to run.

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[e38Eric]

Also why does it look like people like to cut up the cps rotor?

- - - Updated - - -

Are runing the simplex chain?