Finally! M6 is back from detailers. [Archive] - Bimmerforums

stoner

12-26-2007, 10:01 AM

First impression were astounding but I had them do so much it really took some time to see what they missed or quickly ran through. I have no complaints about the paint except they didn't take the time to get all of the wax off and they didn't clean it out of the hood grills. They cleaned and conditioned the leather, the conditioner was an extra $50 as I couldn't wait for my Leatherique to arrive and the carpets were shampooed. I also had them polish the wheels and detail the engine. My complaints are that they didn't touch the rocker panels or the rear valance below the bumper, their polish job on the wheels was a quicky at best and they neglected to polish around the valve stems, they didn't polish the exhaust tips and they didn't spend much time in the engine bay. I paid $565 for everything am I expecting too much? Am I just too picky? I stated my expectation before I brought the car to them and they assured me I would be impressed. After I got the car back I repolished the wheels myself and spent an additional 4 hours under the hood. I'm taking the car back to have them detail the rocker panels, rear valance, exhaust tips and remove the wax from the hood grills. It seems to me the all should have been finished to the same quality as the paint and I shouldn't have to take the car back. Your opinion is welcome.

Dwight

Photo taken at from the trunk.
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mosportgreen66

12-26-2007, 10:20 AM

The car Looks GREAT!

(FM5's on a M6 :eek::eek::eek: :alright)

As for the detail... I noticed the residual wax. I would bring it back. That is a lot of money for a detail. Seems like they were in a rush...

poni

12-26-2007, 10:28 AM

For $565, you shouldn't have to follow up their work. Not cleaning up wax from jams is detailing 101.

Did they say they would clean the engine bay? If so, I would have taken it back before I worked on it and let them finish it up.

Let them know you weren't happy, maybe they can do something for you.

Mless5

12-26-2007, 11:02 AM

Unbelivable m6! This is the real 6, we don't need that new shit!

For that kind of money a reputable detailer should have your car 100% complete.

You really need new headlights.

93bimmer325is

12-26-2007, 12:18 PM

im jealous...lol. lookin pretty good. i would have taken it back though if everything wasnt absolutely perfect.

FMINUS

12-26-2007, 12:18 PM

beautiful M6!!!!!

ZaneO

12-26-2007, 12:34 PM

Sounds like you paid $500+ for a $150 detail. If I charged that much, I would make dang sure that everything was as perfect as possible.

I would definitely speak with them, and let them know you aren't satisfied.

FMINUS

12-26-2007, 12:43 PM

Stoner, the MOST important part of a detail is the PAINT CORRECTION. If they took great time on the paint, making sure the swirls are removed and the cleared is leveled, thats awesome!

Dont fret about the little stuff, just wipe it off and get on with your life! Just mention it to them the next time you go back, maybe they'll give you a discount or something.

The most important thing is that YOU are happy with the results!

blatant

12-26-2007, 04:06 PM

Looks good from the pics, but if you were unsatisfied you should have brought it back and told the guy to finish the job. Nice car though!

E36M34life

12-26-2007, 10:40 PM

First off, the car is absolutely STUNNING!

Second off, the paint looks like a mirror, looks like ZERO orange peel, and it even looks deep and wet in the pics, I can only imagine in real life.

I tihnk they did a good job, you shouldn't sweat the small stuff man.

stoner

12-26-2007, 10:59 PM

Guys, my car thanks you for the praise and I thank you for your cherished opinions. It truly is an astounding piece of machinery...I love it! The paint is absolutely tits but I did pay them to do the rest and I was a little pissed off from their poor effort and when I get that way I have to fix what I don't like. I can't stand to take stuff back because it's such a waste of time and the time it would have taken to get them to do what I expected was spent fixing the areas I thought lacked sufficient detail. I'm not a snob but when it comes to the M6 I do expect it to be treated with the utmost care and reverance and as a business owner myself, I don't expect more than I could deliver.

As for the rocker panels and rear valance, are those areas normally skipped on a paint detail? When I detailed cars I skipped nothing and no cars were ever brought back to me, granted, I wasn't as talented or as well equiped as guys are these days but if I couldn't complete a project to my customers specs I didn't collect any money. Maybe that's why my business failed, lol. As for the headlights, 3 of them are original Hellas and I'm looking for a 4th. Perhaps they need a little polishing too. Thanks again for the advice, much appreciated.
Regards,

Dwight

jesselyons2002

12-27-2007, 04:32 AM

I think you over. I think Todd on autopia get paid that much and he does a better job.

NollieStylz

12-27-2007, 07:09 AM

Very nice car! Paint looks better than my 97 M3's! :thumbup:

To the point though; you are not expecting too much. Especially for the money you dished out. I'd go back and kindly point out the important spots they missed. As long as you're not a complete dick about it they should be courteous enough to go over it again.

In any case, you spent good money, they should do a damn good job.

WolfStrong

12-27-2007, 09:44 PM

stoner

12-28-2007, 09:33 PM

So I called the shop today and tried to tell them I was not happy about the areas they left out. He said he was sorry I wasn't happy and bring it back in and they would finish it for me. I asked them why they skipped those areas, rocker panels, rear valance, exhaust tips, and they said normally they just wash them. I said aren't those areas part of the exterior paint other than the exhaust tips and aren't you a detail shop? No reply except I'm sorry you are not happy and when can you bring the car in. I guess next time, if there is one, I'll have to bring a list with me and make sure they understand I want a real detail job. I don't mind paying the money, I feel the job I expected from them is worth $500 plus but they didn't come close. $225 for the paint and interior and $240 for everything else? They couldn't have spent more than an hour on everything else. Once bitten, twice shy. The good part is I have a great foundation to work with now.

Dwight

Totoland

12-29-2007, 07:29 AM

Judging from the areas they missed and the price you paid for the detail, they should have done a final inspection PRIOR to giving the car back to you. I like to have a 2nd set of eyes examine my work when I finish....it's easy to overlook a few areas and someone else will usually catch those places. It sounds like they will take care of any shortcomings IMO.

Toto

stoner

12-29-2007, 01:44 PM

It sounds like they will take care of any shortcomings IMO.
Toto

I'm sure they will, they do guarantee their work and they charged me extra for some of the stuff they quoted a lesser amount verbally which I'll have to talk to them about as well. The sad thing is, after they finish it, the chances of me going back are pretty much zero. It's too bad because I have a few other vehicles and a lot of friends looking for a reputable detailer in our area. We have all been ginney pigs and haven't found one yet that hasn't had issues. Guess I'll try Grouse next, got his name from somebody here. Happy holidays!

Dwight

ZaneO

12-29-2007, 06:17 PM

Guess I'll try Grouse next, got his name from somebody here.

Oh, man. I guarantee you will be pleased with Grouse's work! He is definitely a top-tier detailer.

PuckMan

12-29-2007, 07:37 PM

Phiberglass

12-30-2007, 12:19 AM

Looks pretty good. Definately take it back and get that stuff taken care of though

stoner

12-31-2007, 04:03 AM

I can honestly say that your car would've never left my property without those items being taken care of. If they were, I would be at your location as fast as you called me to make sure it was right AND a discount next visit just for the inconvenience of having to call back unhappy!

The old adage that says a happy customer tells one person - an unhappy customer tells ten is never worth the risk.

That is one gorgeous BMW specimen you gots there!

Thanks man, wish I lived in Tampa I would look you up. It's weird up here and I run into it a lot. I even fell into the trap as well but it seems everyone up here is so focused on making money that they forget all about quality and customer service. Call backs are sometimes unavoidable, especially when you are a growing company and training new employees but you try to limit them as much as possible. Detailing isn't as complex as what I do but the most I want from my employees is to pay attention to details and give a damn about the customer and their job. This is kind of funny, when I did the labor I used to imagine that I was doing a special service for royalty and you don't want to piss off the king. That philosophy has served me well, I wish others would pay closer attention to it.
Dwight

German Pride 10

12-31-2007, 04:14 AM

JohnZ3MC

12-31-2007, 04:21 AM

Very very nice Dwight.
I think I see something on the glass though. Fill the tank with premium and bring the M6 to me. It may take a week or two but I'll get that bug blemish taken care of, I promise. Honest.
-John C.

DrKush

01-04-2008, 07:24 PM

sick m6!

artikxscout

01-06-2008, 05:11 AM

I agree with Fminus about the paint as that's the thing that I spend most time on. On the other hand, if you told them that you expected them to have the car 100% detailed and paid that much for it, then I would expect them to do it. At least they're willing to finish it up. Most important thing is the paint. I would spend more time on the paint than the smaller parts as that's the important part of the detail. Good luck on it though!

stoner

01-06-2008, 03:56 PM

Wow I am disappointed to hear some of the people in here saying to not worry about it and move on.

First of all, my shop only does $400-$600 details and that ranges from spending a day to a day and a half per car (yes we're selective, but good). You spent some damn good cash to get that done and you should not be expected to follow up on the leftover parts.

For a $500 job, not only will I make sure that everything on the car is 100%, I will even move all of your belongings from our loaner car to your car myself and hold the door open for you to get in

You should see my list of items they didn't address, it's 20 items long and would make your hair curl and yet my receipt says "Full Detail". How much mileage do you allow on your loaners, ha, ha. Is it enough for a trip back to Lynnwood?

Very very nice Dwight.
I think I see something on the glass though. Fill the tank with premium and bring the M6 to me. It may take a week or two but I'll get that bug blemish taken care of, I promise. Honest.
-John C.

John, just bring it back better than it left, oh, and don't forget to turn the odometer back.

sick m6!
Thanks, it's getting there. Actually the new plates will say [1 BAD M6].

I agree with Fminus about the paint as that's the thing that I spend most time on. On the other hand, if you told them that you expected them to have the car 100% detailed and paid that much for it, then I would expect them to do it. At least they're willing to finish it up. Most important thing is the paint. I would spend more time on the paint than the smaller parts as that's the important part of the detail. Good luck on it though!

If I just had them do the paint and clean the interior it would have cost $265.00. I think that's fair as it turned out. The problem I have is paying them to do the whole car and extra to do the wheels and such and they did a shitty job. They didn't earn the money what so ever and making them finish it correctly is only fair to me and them. Maybe they will learn from it. The car is scheduled to go in next Tuesday and I'll post back on the results.

Dwight

Carbon Blue

01-06-2008, 05:26 PM

wow that black still looks awesome for its age! Ive still never seen one in person

pyiu2

01-06-2008, 06:47 PM

that looks great!

stoner

01-09-2008, 06:46 PM

So I drop the car off at the detailers yesterday. We walked around the car and I showed them everything they missed, wax residue on the nose, hood vents, between the pin striping, rocker panels not cleaned, rear valance not polished and waxed, exhaust tips not cleaned or polished, stain left in carpet, door jams not cleaned, I also explained to them about the wheels needing another polish, the adhesive that was on them, no polish around the valve stems and the dirt they had left in the engine compartment. He told me what you all told me about the wheels and the engine bay, I shouldn't have refinished those areas but what the hell. So the detailers had the car over night and I got the call to pick it up today. They cleaned the rocker panels and polished up the rear valance and tried to get the stain out of the carpet and that was it. I should have given the car a thorough inspection right then and there but I was late for an appointment. I inspected my car when I got home, the rocker panels looked great, the rear valance looked good but the door jams were still dirty and there was still wax residue in the pin striping and hood vents and they never polished the SS exhaust tips. WTF??? When I called them this afternoon and told them about the areas they missed they gave me some lame ass excuse about not being able to polish the stainless steel, ahem...bullshit, and no explanation for not finishing anything else. They will, however accomodate me a third time scheduled or not. Then I questioned him about his quality control the owner did say his partner did the work and he forgot to tell him about the rest of the items that needed attention and this was not representative of their standard quality. Well, I'm starting to think it is representative of their standard quality if I have to bring my car back a third time because both owners can't QC their own work. I just can't believe it.

Dwight

E323IS

01-09-2008, 07:09 PM

for $565 they should have thrown you a blow job

car looks great though
i worked for a detailer the most we would charge for even a big suv, inside and outside detail was $250

pyiu2

01-09-2008, 07:40 PM

if I can ask which shop did the work? I really surprised at that.

Grouse

01-09-2008, 09:11 PM

im2gq4u

01-10-2008, 08:18 AM

nice!!

Bluz

01-10-2008, 08:27 AM

Very nice car..... looks great!
Show us the interior...

stoner

01-10-2008, 12:06 PM

Yeash, I was tipped off to this thread today. I too am surprised. It's one of the reasons I really try and talk to the customer before hand. So i can note what areas are of specific concern.

Question. On the rocker panels are you talking about the lower valence in general/ sides or are you talking about the area where the lowers wrap underneath the car.

Both actually. The lower side rockers were not cleaned originally, they are now. The rear valance, below the bumper was not polished, it is now, the rocker covers and door jams were not cleaned and still aren't. It just amazes me. I'll be contacting you for my next as I hear your reputation precedes you. Why don't you PM me with your phone number.

Dwight

TropicalDetail

01-11-2008, 06:39 PM

I think you over. I think Todd on autopia get paid that much and he does a better job.

Thanks, but it is hard to say what that amount would be with out working on the car first. It is very important for the client and detailer to have a clear idea of what consitutes a detail. I have done paint corrections for over a thousand dollars and did not touch the interior or polish the exhaust pipes, so... Of course we had over 20 man hours in just the paint.

Casebrius

01-11-2008, 07:01 PM

If it was my car, it would NEVER see that shop again!

ac34351

01-12-2008, 03:30 AM

great m6!

for 565$, it should be 100% complete.
but they had done a great job anyway. :D

Casebrius

01-12-2008, 07:54 AM

out of curiosity, what products and tools did they use for the paint correction?

BEEMERKID90

01-13-2008, 02:01 PM

not a bad looking m6 i like the new ones better they look pretty sharp. the 8 series isnt bad either i wonder if they'ed ever bring back the 8 that was a astonishing vehicle with the option of either a V8 or V12 cmon you cant beat that. and they'll fairly cheap these days 5-10k

stoner

01-14-2008, 09:07 PM

out of curiosity, what products and tools did they use for the paint correction?
They used primarily 3m products. I didn't ask for specifics but 3m has a good reputation and it sure made the paint explode except now, seeing as it's black paint, I'm starting to see more and more scratches in it. It doesn't take much.

not a bad looking m6 i like the new ones better they look pretty sharp. the 8 series isnt bad either i wonder if they'ed ever bring back the 8 that was a astonishing vehicle with the option of either a V8 or V12 cmon you cant beat that. and they'll fairly cheap these days 5-10k
I can't agree with you there but to each their own. The M6 has been my dream car for about 20 years and IMHO there is only one M6 and even fewer with Dinan strokers...of course the new ones don't really need much help. Nothing stands out and makes people stop and stare more than a black vintage M6. Well...maybe and 850Csi would.

Dwight

TropicalDetail

01-15-2008, 02:42 AM

They used primarily 3m products. I didn't ask for specifics but 3m has a good reputation and it sure made the paint explode except now, seeing as it's black paint, I'm starting to see more and more scratches in it. It doesn't take much.

Dwight

Hey Dwight,

While 3M has a pretty good reputation with bodyshops, there is a reason that until recently the detailing community has avoided using them. Bodyshop type detailing is more for adding gloss to the surface, rather than perfecting it. They tend to be very heavy in fillers, or oils/silicones, that act to make the surface look great, they will bleed out overtime.

The new Perfect It 3000 system from 3M is the first 3M system designed to "remove and not fill" in defects. Unless they used this particular system, which most detail shops and body shops don't like as much (I wonder why :D ), there is a good chance while the paint looks great when the detail is completed, after a few weeks, the oils wash away and you are left with the true surface of the paint (and the detailers lack of skill).

Keep an eye on the swirls you see now. If they appear in the forum of "buffer trails" or holograms, then you likely are the victim of substandard detailers who really don't know better. It should not be that hard to maintain and swirl's shouldn't reappear. Combined with 3M's ability to make horrible work look good for a couple weeks, I would imagine that this is the case.

kakl

01-15-2008, 06:07 AM

So, whose the detailer?!

JoshVette

01-15-2008, 10:07 AM

Your paint looks great, looks like they did a good paint correction, hopefully they actually removed the swirls and defects and not just covered them up.

I've charged much more then that on a full show car detail, but I always have the owners inspect the car before they take delivery of it so there's no complaints afterwards.

For your money there should be no complaints, but at the same time they probably spent the majority of the time on the paint and not on the little things, but then again, it's the little things that make the difference. Think about it this way, imagine if you'd picked it up and all the little things were perfect but the paint still had swirls in it??

stoner

01-15-2008, 12:09 PM

Hey Dwight,

While 3M has a pretty good reputation with bodyshops, there is a reason that until recently the detailing community has avoided using them. Bodyshop type detailing is more for adding gloss to the surface, rather than perfecting it. They tend to be very heavy in fillers, or oils/silicones, that act to make the surface look great, they will bleed out overtime.

The new Perfect It 3000 system from 3M is the first 3M system designed to "remove and not fill" in defects. Unless they used this particular system, which most detail shops and body shops don't like as much (I wonder why :D ), there is a good chance while the paint looks great when the detail is completed, after a few weeks, the oils wash away and you are left with the true surface of the paint (and the detailers lack of skill).

Keep an eye on the swirls you see now. If they appear in the forum of "buffer trails" or holograms, then you likely are the victim of substandard detailers who really don't know better. It should not be that hard to maintain and swirl's shouldn't reappear. Combined with 3M's ability to make horrible work look good for a couple weeks, I would imagine that this is the case.

Are you serious? I'm seeing more and more swirl marks and scratches by the day and the car has only been washed twice with extreme care and stored in the garage. That would explain it. Wow, now I really feel like a sucker. I think I'm going to chaulk this up to an expensive lesson learned and move on. I can't imagine them wanting to fix the existing swirl marks or even doing a decent job at it. I wish I had some recourse but it's not worth my time.

Dwight

Dwight

TropicalDetail

01-15-2008, 01:15 PM

Are you serious? I'm seeing more and more swirl marks and scratches by the day and the car has only been washed twice with extreme care and stored in the garage. That would explain it. Wow, now I really feel like a sucker. I think I'm going to chaulk this up to an expensive lesson learned and move on. I can't imagine them wanting to fix the existing swirl marks or even doing a decent job at it. I wish I had some recourse but it's not worth my time.

Dwight

Dwight

Hey Dwight, sorry, but that seems to be the case :(

The problem is that most retail locations have overheads, so they can not afford to pay people that really know what they are doing. Compound this with the fact that most people who think that they know what they are doing, don't.

True polishing and perfecting paint is an art forum, and most of us that do it are the only ones who know it can be done. Many old body shop guys and detail shop owners don't have a clue :( They definetely used older 3M, probably something like Perfect It II, which is HIG in silicones and will make anything appear great for a while.

When you wash the car, are you using straight line motions? Wash the horiztonal panels front to back and the vertical panels up and down. This way if any circular patterns appear, you can be sure you did not cause them.

JoshVette

01-15-2008, 05:01 PM

Sorry to hear the swirls are coming back.

Sounds like they just covered them up with a glaze or something and did not actually remove them the correct way. That's why a "true" pro detailer will charge what it's worth, but the difference is your "new" looking paint is perminent and not temporary.

Sorry to hear about your experience.

Bobby Newport

01-16-2008, 03:18 AM

i dont think i would pay someone anymore than 100$ to do something i could do myself. i think its funny to wash, wax, and detail. throw my headphones on and waste the day away.

although, it looks absolutely sexy, i wouldnt wanna drive it for a while because you paid so much. damn puddles!

xtahoex

01-17-2008, 08:29 AM

I think you answered all your own questions. If it were me I wouldn't take it back to them even to have them finish the job they started, and I obviously wouldn't take it back in the future for another detail. Like you already said, try Grouse, i've seen his work before and I am sure he does a better job. Also, check Autopia dot org. There are a ton of detailers over there and I am sure almost all of them would do a better job. Good luck.

SemM3e92

01-17-2008, 04:46 PM

That looks amazing for an older car, and a great detail overall, love the reflection when the hood is up, well worth the money i would say (than again i would probibley do it myself )

M0nK3y

01-17-2008, 05:09 PM

That looks amazing for an older car, and a great detail overall, love the reflection when the hood is up, well worth the money i would say (than again i would probibley do it myself )

have you read the past 10 posts, the swirls are coming back :shifty

Im only 17, but ive already took the plunge on buying a PC and some Menzerna Polishes (SIP and 106FF) (ok, flame me about the PC). When i first got my car, i used Megiuars and well, i relize now that those are fillers, because even though I would use my hand to apply, after a couple washes, ive seen them coming back.

So ive decided to really put my money into caring for my car, because of this i already have a shelf built for my supplies, covering half of my garage......

I think the lesson was learned in this case, yes it does suck, but now it can be prevented, take some time on the internet reading about different products, and if you do decide on going to another detailer, make sure you know what products are going on your car.

If I was you, I would invest in some supplies, yea, it might cost more than what you payed for 1 detail, but it will last a long time (figure 2 full out details each year) But once the swirls are gone, they are gone for good :D

Hope this helps

-Kyle

stoner

01-17-2008, 08:38 PM

When you wash the car, are you using straight line motions? Wash the horiztonal panels front to back and the vertical panels up and down. This way if any circular patterns appear, you can be sure you did not cause them.

When I wash the car it's front to back with horizontal patterns and a very light touch. I use to micro fiber mits, one for the top and one for the bottom and two seperate buckets of clean wash water. On the lower panels I'll even spray the mit off between areas and wring it out. I have been extremely careful because I didn't want to pay anyone to detail it again.

I think the lesson was learned in this case, yes it does suck, but now it can be prevented, take some time on the internet reading about different products, and if you do decide on going to another detailer, make sure you know what products are going on your car.

If I was you, I would invest in some supplies, yea, it might cost more than what you payed for 1 detail, but it will last a long time (figure 2 full out details each year) But once the swirls are gone, they are gone for good :D

Hope this helps

Kyle, Thanks for the advice but I'm way ahead of you. I have a PC and just bought a bag for all of my products and pads. Lesson learned.:mad
Dwight