settings for sway bars?

[swollix]

I just bought some Turner Sway bars. What holes should I use? I just want to eliminate body roll but maintain a fairly balanced car. Not excessive oversteer or understeer. Should I just set both the front and the rear to full stiff?

[savage217]

Its not recommended to set both front and rear to full stiff. The front should be soft and rear firm.

[swollix]

Its not recommended to set both front and rear to full stiff. The front should be soft and rear firm.

I thought for the M3 it is opposite? Front stiff rear soft, due to the MacPherson strut set up up front?

[swollix]

I just put in the front set to full stiff. VERAY NAICE! Should I even put the back in?

[Eric98Sedan]

Its not recommended to set both front and rear to full stiff. The front should be soft and rear firm.

Accoring to all the track junkies, you've got it exactly backwards:)

[Eric98Sedan]

I just put in the front set to full stiff. VERAY NAICE! Should I even put the back in?

Kinda seems like the thing to do. I mean hey, if you like the way it handles then leave it as-is.

BTW.... the rear is considerably more difficult to install than the front.:mad

[jayhudson]

Accoring to all the track junkies, you've got it exactly backwards:)

Let's see a show of hands of all the track junkies that agree with this statement............ I didn't think so. :(

Anyone who knows how to adjust sway bars wouldn't make a blanket statement like that.

Sway bars are used to eliminate body roll and more importantly, to fine tune handling behavior. Their adjustment is dependent on many things such as spring rates, tire/wheel sizes, tire pressures and alignment. There are others. There is usually NOT a one size fits all adjustment.

If you are going to try to fine tune your car's handling using sway bars, you must understand how changes will affect it, take into account what changes have been made from stock and then experiment and interpret the results.

Generally:

E36s are set up from the factory to understeer.

Going stiffer on a swaybar decreases grip at that end of the car. But, in the case of the front of E36s, not always the case. Sometimes stiffer equals more grip. Going softer is usually the reverse. But as stated previously, not always.

Here's a link that may be helpful in understanding how to tune your suspension.

http://www.wtrscca.org/tech.htm

Jay

[thejlevie]

Let's see a show of hands of all the track junkies that agree with this statement............ I didn't think so.
And I'd agree with you. A popular track set up is full stiff on the front and full soft on the rear, or even no rear sway.

[redefinedM3]

What are the rest of your suspension mods?


And I'd agree with you. A popular track set up is full stiff on the front and full soft on the rear, or even no rear sway.

Depending on the spring rates yes. Once people get up to the #1000 rear spring settings some remove their rear bar, or use a stock bar in conjunction with a stiff bar in the front. Again as stated above, this all depends on the cars modifications and the drivers skills <---- key here.

[savage217]

Sorry guys I meant to say full firm front and full soft rear. I was thinking about it today and realized I had said the opposite of the traditional way. Although both mine are full firm. Like mentioned it depends on the spring rates and basically how you want your car to handle. I like having a bit more oversteer than the neutral setup of what the conventional way is supposed to have, but again the spring rates come in to play. Just play around with the settings and find on thats good for you. Dont forget you can have one side set to firm and the other set to soft to get an extra setting.

[swollix]

Well I have Bilstein Sports,the Eibach Pro-Kit springs, and a x-brace right now, but H&R race are on the way... I have already noticed a large improvement by just putting the front bar in. What other suspension mods should I look into besides coil-overs? Strut bars, adjustable trailing arms, bushings? Besides coil-overs, what is the next thing that will make the greatest difference in feel?

[ozbmw]

What is your purpose for the car, road or track or somewhere in between. A car in full track setup will be very uncomfortable on the road and will use up a lot of your cash in tyres.
If, like most of us, you use your car primarily on the road then a set of sport springs which lower the car about 30mm coupled with either KONI inserts or Bilstein struts and shocks and a swaybar setting of firm front and soft to medium rear will be fine. Going too stiff will have you skating over corrugations and bumps and handling worse than stock.

Too stiff a rear setting may also lead to lack of grip on acceleration out of corners.

I have Racing Dynamics coils which are about 30mm lower than stock, KONI adjustables set to soft + 1 full turn, Don Selby swaybars 27mm front and 20mm rear, BBS 17x8 wheels with 245 Toyo Proxes T1R and the setup is fantastic for fast road driving.

[savage217]

What is your purpose for the car, road or track or somewhere in between. A car in full track setup will be very uncomfortable on the road and will use up a lot of your cash in tyres.
If, like most of us, you use your car primarily on the road then a set of sport springs which lower the car about 30mm coupled with either KONI inserts or Bilstein struts and shocks and a swaybar setting of firm front and soft to medium rear will be fine. Going too stiff will have you skating over corrugations and bumps and handling worse than stock.

Too stiff a rear setting may also lead to lack of grip on acceleration out of corners.

I have Racing Dynamics coils which are about 30mm lower than stock, KONI adjustables set to soft + 1 full turn, Don Selby swaybars 27mm front and 20mm rear, BBS 17x8 wheels with 245 Toyo Proxes T1R and the setup is fantastic for fast road driving.

Im getting 245/35/18 all around t1r's and cant wait to try them out. How do you like them?

[ozbmw]

I have had Michelins, G/Y GS-D3s , Sumitomos etc before on my BMWs and honestly prefer these T1Rs both in the dry and wet, they are a great allround street tyre.
I am not sure if the 245/35 tyres have the correct load rating for M3s, check first!

[Eric98Sedan]

And I'd agree with you. A popular track set up is full stiff on the front and full soft on the rear, or even no rear sway.

Which is exactly what I said. Which I base on personal experience AND what EVERY single track guy says here.

I've never seen it written once that a soft front and stiff rear works on the E36. And as for my own personal experience, the PO of my car had Dinan bars installed which, due to the very small front bar, caused the car to plow worse than stock. I've since installed stock sways.

[Eric98Sedan]

Well I have Bilstein Sports,the Eibach Pro-Kit springs, and a x-brace right now, but H&R race are on the way... I have already noticed a large improvement by just putting the front bar in. What other suspension mods should I look into besides coil-overs? Strut bars, adjustable trailing arms, bushings? Besides coil-overs, what is the next thing that will make the greatest difference in feel?

H&R Race is a terrible choice due to the inherently small amount of front bump travel allowed by 'stock' type struts (Bils, Konis, etc.). I measured the bump travel recently with my Billy sports and recorded just a hair more than 1.5inches up front!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last time I checked, H&R Races lowered the front more than that, which would be impossible with Billys. In other words, you'll be riding around on the bumpstops chief.

You need coil overs if you want to go any lower. This is fact.

[M3Alpine99]

i love bimmerforums

I just got sways and I have shocks and springs...

Then 1/2 the post recommend just setting them on full firm for driving around town. Never ceases to amaze me.

Next make sure to get some camber plates and rear adjustable arms because I am sure you "need" camber...

Atleast Jay put in some good information. This board is filled with misinformation. The reason being is 80% of the board mods to mods and then "reports" back their AWESOME handling and they don't even understand what the mod did or if the car even really "handles better". Then 18% of the board are "track guys" and they just built race cars and come back and report the same thing...

There is more to tuning sway bars then just making them full stiff. Not saying that full stiff in the front and no bar or stock rear bar in the back is not a setup that people use but that is not the end all be all. Just like there is no SET camber setting in the front and the back. It changes.

I like to get some type of data(tire temp, tire wear, lap times etc etc etc) and progress to my next mod, I like to mods singularly to see what they actually did for me on track. Sure throwing thousands at my track car would be fun but then I won't even know what each mod did and even worse if something is acting up from how it was before then I don't even know where to start looking to change it ;)

[GotBHP?]

Set them in the middle, go drive the car and see how it feels. It takes what, like 15 mins to adjust one of them? There are no blanket answers to what you are looking for because it is too dependent on a huge number of variables. Ultimately you are going to have to set the car up, see if you like it or not and change things accordingly.

[joenationwide]

Well I have Bilstein Sports,the Eibach Pro-Kit springs, and a x-brace right now, but H&R race are on the way... I have already noticed a large improvement by just putting the front bar in. What other suspension mods should I look into besides coil-overs? Strut bars, adjustable trailing arms, bushings? Besides coil-overs, what is the next thing that will make the greatest difference in feel?

You need to get enough camber up front. Either camber plates or swapped front hats from 96+ M3. And I'd suggest putting the front bar on full stiff. ;)

[91M5]

On my M5, now retired from track duty, I would get over on the sidewalls of the tires quite a bit on track (I had fixed camber plates). Eventually, I was able to pretty much eliminate this problem by going full stiff in front and putting the Konis on full stiff. It is not an exact science because although a car may understeer at the limit if real stiff in front, that's okay if the actual limit is much higher. Different car but it emphasizes the point that you just play with them and see what you like. I actually liked the way the car felt with the bar on full stiff as well, a little more responsive. With the weight of the M5, getting it pointed as early as possible really helped on track a ton.

[malter]

front full stiff, rear full soft. E36 is notorious for having counter intuitive car dynamics. it will understeer LESS under this configuration.

[M3Alpine99]

Did you even read the whole post?

Sure that "works" sometimes but it is far too general. A lot of e36 end up with this setup but there are some that are not like that.

[malter]

A lot of e36 end up with this setup but there are some that are not like that.

yea, there are some that are not like that. those are the ones that plow.

[JClark]

I dont think the OP really cares about the science behind it. :D Just tell him what setting to put it on, which would be by popular vote: full stiff front, full soft rear.

Or if you want to spice up life and make driving interesting, do the opposite like Savage said. ;) Or disconnect the front bar completely, and set the rear to full stiff. Should be fun to watch.