335i sports pack - snow

[luckywales]

So I live in Virginia, and work in DC. Today it is snowing. Not much, so I know it will be fine, but does anyone have any experience with this car in any snow/ice environment?

Would sand bags in the trunk help, or will I just be getting cold this winter using public transportation?

It's a manual transmission, FYI.

[J3 L U N T]

in the same boat... just picked up my 08 335i sport pack 6 speed. woooo and of course i picke it up its snowing... not that bad yet. im in philly and hoping this wont be an issue

[luckywales]

Don't worry - I've had mine since April...it's very much the car to get for when you can use it...

I'm hoping to get through winter with only 4 or 5 days where it is a genuine problem, since I live in an area where the streets get cleared quickly.

...hopefully.

[mryakan]

Summer performance tires + snow = bad idea. You may get by but chances are you'll have some hairy moments and others that are frustrating as you spin your tires and go nowhere. The 3 series is a very capable winter car, clearance aside. However, traction is paramount, and that has nothing to do with the kind of car you are driving, although the RWD layout does make things more difficult than with FWD or AWD. From your signature, it seems you owned M cars before, so you should know what it is like, the 335 shouldn't be any different.

[awise1961]

The Sports Package 18" Bridgestone RE50's combined with an open differential equate to a very precarious situation in snowy/icey weather.
I opted for a second set of wheels (17") with 225-45-17 Dunlop Wintersport M3's. It has made all the difference in the world.
As said many times, dressing appropriately for the weather applies to you car also.

Al. Wise

[Jed]

So I live in Virginia, and work in DC. Today it is snowing. Not much, so I know it will be fine, but does anyone have any experience with this car in any snow/ice environment?

Would sand bags in the trunk help, or will I just be getting cold this winter using public transportation?

It's a manual transmission, FYI.

Hey-

Yeah, I'm up in Baltimore and it's the really dry fluffy stuff making it slippery. Didn't take the 335i today-drove an Avalon, but curious as to how the 335 is in snow.

I've driven in snow with dry weather tires (Kumho Ecsta 712s) in my 325is and was perfectly fine. ASC + not driving like a dumb azz helps out a lot.

Be safe!

[mryakan]

Hey-

Yeah, I'm up in Baltimore and it's the really dry fluffy stuff making it slippery. Didn't take the 335i today-drove an Avalon, but curious as to how the 335 is in snow.

I've driven in snow with dry weather tires (Kumho Ecsta 712s) in my 325is and was perfectly fine. ASC + not driving like a dumb azz helps out a lot.

Be safe!
ASC doesn't help you stop or steer when the tires lose grip, but not driving like a "dubm azz" might help a bit :D. I've managed 1 1/2 winters on summer tires (Boston then here in Ottawa) but my commute was mainly home-work and very flexible schedule. Still I would never do that again, I got stuck too many times (imagine not being able to get over the little incline into a gas station without people pushing you in :eek:) and had a few close calls with slippery roads (those tires can give way without warning and traction control will be helpless as will the driver). Now I always recommend snow tires for anyone serious about driving on snow/ice.

[luckywales]

Very useful responses - thank you.

I think I'll err on the side of caution - below 20, and it's the bus for me. Come on March...

[Jed]

ASC doesn't help you stop or steer when the tires lose grip, but not driving like a "dubm azz" might help a bit :D. I've managed 1 1/2 winters on summer tires (Boston then here in Ottawa) but my commute was mainly home-work and very flexible schedule. Still I would never do that again, I got stuck too many times (imagine not being able to get over the little incline into a gas station without people pushing you in :eek:) and had a few close calls with slippery roads (those tires can give way without warning and traction control will be helpless as will the driver). Now I always recommend snow tires for anyone serious about driving on snow/ice.

Well for stability, it helped out with steering (again with judicious driving). Key is driving and then assistance from ASC. If you talking plain physics AFTER losing grip, yeah, you're screwed. Can't fight mother nature.

The funniest thing on the way to work last year was a deserted Audi S4 that was smashed against a tree around a bend. I'm guessing he was way overconfident in his Quattro.

[djwang2000]

Very useful responses - thank you.

I think I'll err on the side of caution - below 20, and it's the bus for me. Come on March...

Seriously? I don't think I would be able to bear it. My E93 w/ sport is due at the dealership in ~5 days, but my winter tires arrived yesterday and wheels (17 inch) are due in ~1 week. I opted for the 194m wheel (would post picture, but can't because I'm a noob) since I didn't like the tire rack options, but wheels + tires can be < than $1,300:

225/45HR17 Continental ContiWinterContact TS810 S SSR Blackwall RunFlat
for 2008 BMW 335i Coupe Sport Package
$173.00 x4 = $692.00

17X7.5 Sport Edition A7 Silver Painted
for 2008 BMW 335i Coupe Sport Package
$104.00 x4 = $416.00

TIRE PRESSURE SENSOR
for 2008 BMW 335i Coupe Sport Package
$38.00 x 4 = $152.00

REQUIRED VALVE
for 2008 BMW 335i Coupe Sport Package
$8.00 x4 = $32.00

Total: $1,292.00

djw

[jwestpro]

Please help me figure out which rims to get that will not require spacers and will allow the bmw chains to fit in the wheel wells.

Tires I am fine with choosing on my own (likely Nokian WR or RSi) but the rim stuff is daunting. The car currently has the bmw 19" star spokes 8"fr/9"rear with the RE50A? ~bridgestone rft's which are pretty fun.

We'e going to use this in Seattle now and want to go to the slopes and over the passes when you sometimes need chains.

No, this is no an "x" drive. Yes, I do usually have lots of crap in the back which gives better traction there and the wagon likely weighs more back there too.

So, I know I should get a 17"x8" rim but what brand, etc to avoid silly spacer issues, clips, different lug studs, etc. and to allow tpms to continue as well??

The car is the "sport package" which I take to mean it's slightly lowered and has different suspension but otherwise wheels should be equally used b/n this or even the sedans.

One idea was, probably bad, but to get the awesome looking Nokian WRG2 tires in 19" ! Yes, 19" 235/35 winter performance tire, and use them with the 8" front and 9" rear rims - I guess a bad idea....

I'd like to spend in the cheap for winter but decent looking rim cash range of $100 - $250 or so per rim as long as it is a true perfect fit.

Sorry for the long first post ;) It's either make this thing trac well in snow or we're getting an Audi....

[mryakan]

One idea was, probably bad, but to get the awesome looking Nokian WRG2 tires in 19" ! Yes, 19" 235/35 winter performance tire, and use them with the 8" front and 9" rear rims - I guess a bad idea....

Do Nokians make performance winter tires and 19" at that? Last I checked they only went up to 17 and only S or T rating at most, but the tire shop could have been giving me BS!

[Reedo]

Do Nokians make performance winter tires and 19" at that? Last I checked they only went up to 17 and only S or T rating at most, but the tire shop could have been giving me BS!
Bridgestone Blizzak LM25's and Pirelli Sottozeros are the two main tires you need to go with if you want winter performance 19's (V Rated). It's not recommended that you use 19's in the winter, though.


It amazing how the DSC has saved me so many times from losing it on the road. It's also amazing how many times it's almost gotten me stuck. If you pay attention when driving in very bad conditions, you'll learn that you can get more out of your car if you turn off the stability control at opportune low-speed situations. It's all part of knowing your car and knowing your car's capabilities.

[3forme]

Have the same car (335i 6MT with Sport). Live in Loudoun VA and work in Fairfax VA. Made the commute yesterday (20 miles each way) with no issues. Driving on winters (Bliz LM25s 225 17s).

Wife took her FWD Honda Accord with AS tires and had problems just getting around in town (Leesburg VA).

[luckywales]

To follow up - I did drive to work yesterday and everything was fine. However, it snowed all day, and as it turns out they did not clear the snow up to my apartment building - that's a 200 yard hill.

I was in 2nd and 3rd gear doing about 0.5 mph slightly sideways all the way up.

THE BEST THING - I was followed up the hill by a C55 AMG, having the same issues, but interestingly was slightly sideways the other way...

[Jed]

I had decided to try out my 335i last night when I got home (no snow tires) to see what DTC vs DSC did in that situation.

There was about 4-5 inches of snow on the ground (streets hadn't been cleared)-had no issue whatsoever getting out of the driveway and onto the road, but once the treads loaded with snow, obviously, that's when traction lessened.

Even then, it wasn't terrible. I went down the street (downhill), turned around and went back up and around the block. Going up the hill, the DSC was killing too much power and I was losing momentum so I turned on DTC and that helped a lot. There was a Lexus ES350 that was stuck spinning his tires and I was able to drive right by him with no issue.

When I got to a left hand turn to get to my block, the rear started coming around quickly and I saved it and was able to get moving again. Kept the DTC on to get the momentum and then switched back to full DSC to keep it going (DTC was providing too much throttle and I felt the rear stepping sideways as throttle was applied). Worked great, but when I got back to my driveway, I had to get back to DTC to get back in and eventually shut it all off to get sufficient wheel spin to get back in my spot.

Obviously, as people have observed, the stock tires aren't the best thing in the world, but driven carefully, the car isn't 100% helpless in this kind of snow (again 4-5 inches) if you HAD to in a pinch with these tires.

That being said, still driving the Avalon!

[rrosen]

Basically the same experience (Bethesda, MD). Barely made it up a slight hill on those Bridgestone summer RFTs. Electronics helped. (335i AT)

Too bad there are no all season RFTs in the size needed. Doesn't snow here enough to make winter tires a real necessity. Performance all seasons are very good (had them on my Maxima) and unless you're tracking the car or a really good autocrosser, no substantial difference in the real world.

[TJBMW]

I had decided to try out my 335i last night when I got home (no snow tires) to see what DTC vs DSC did in that situation.

There was about 4-5 inches of snow on the ground (streets hadn't been cleared)-had no issue whatsoever getting out of the driveway and onto the road, but once the treads loaded with snow, obviously, that's when traction lessened.

Even then, it wasn't terrible. I went down the street (downhill), turned around and went back up and around the block. Going up the hill, the DSC was killing too much power and I was losing momentum so I turned on DTC and that helped a lot. There was a Lexus ES350 that was stuck spinning his tires and I was able to drive right by him with no issue.

When I got to a left hand turn to get to my block, the rear started coming around quickly and I saved it and was able to get moving again. Kept the DTC on to get the momentum and then switched back to full DSC to keep it going (DTC was providing too much throttle and I felt the rear stepping sideways as throttle was applied). Worked great, but when I got back to my driveway, I had to get back to DTC to get back in and eventually shut it all off to get sufficient wheel spin to get back in my spot.

Obviously, as people have observed, the stock tires aren't the best thing in the world, but driven carefully, the car isn't 100% helpless in this kind of snow (again 4-5 inches) if you HAD to in a pinch with these tires.

That being said, still driving the Avalon!

Just an anecdote. Last winter when trying to start from a standstill and going uphill I turned the DTC off - completely. Yeah, that got me going, but there was smoke coming out of the back and people were running. A good idea it was not haha.

[jwestpro]

Do Nokians make performance winter tires and 19" at that? Last I checked they only went up to 17 and only S or T rating at most, but the tire shop could have been giving me BS!

I wouldn't say they did if it weren't on the website! V rated and looks more performance oriented than the Blizzak or Pirelli.

[mryakan]

I wouldn't say they did if it weren't on the website! V rated and looks more performance oriented than the Blizzak or Pirelli.
Which website? I though nokians only sold through resellers.

[335iNewbie]

Took delivery of my 335 Cp with ZSP on Feb.10th of 07 in Buffalo NY. I went in to the dealer on pickup day with my winter package from Tire Rack and they did the switch. The 65 mile drive home through a couple of inches was uneventful. I already had plenty of exhileration what with taking delivery and all.

My car has not, and will not, go play in the snow without snow tires. 46 years of driving in western New York winters and I'm still dazzeled by the idiots out there. Many more times than I care to count I've had near accidents because of unprepared drivers thinking they are soooo capable of dealing with our conditions. I won't let family members, (wife, daughter), run All Seasons during our winters. Snows all around for my girls.

I even have all of us with cheapo cameras in our cars for the expressed purpose of getting pictures of tires should anyone be involved in minor accidents. Might just help the ins. co. determine if it was ill prepared idiot related.

I find it amusing to go down the highway and see the SOB who passed me 5 miles back like I was standing still, down in a ditch. So sad. Too bad. Call your Dad.

Be safe out there.

[awise1961]

I apologize now to those that might be offended, but if you had enough money to spend $ 50K on this awesome piece of automobile, what is so difficult so spring for Winter tires. There are many possibilities out there at various price points.
Why take the chance of causing a problem, or worse yet, causing injury to you, a loved one, or another motorist, just to prove that you can indeed drive on the Sport Package tires/wheels.

Al. Wise

[jwestpro]

"So sad. Too bad. Call your Dad."

That's a good one.


As for the Nokians, I was referring to the Nokian web site. It would take a bit of waiting for the WRG2 based on my call around recently.

[mryakan]

"So sad. Too bad. Call your Dad."

That's a good one.


As for the Nokians, I was referring to the Nokian web site. It would take a bit of waiting for the WRG2 based on my call around recently.
Interesting, the Nokian WRG2 seem like the 1st all season snow tires I've seen (they have the snow flake emblem which is reserved for full duty snows). I wonder how they compare to dedicated snow tires and also how they handle vs top brand all seasons!

[jwestpro]

My guess is similar to the WR but with the obviously more performance oriented tread design you can see in the photos on the web site.

I would consider them because in Seattle, there is hardly ever actual snow lingering in town and you don;t get into much snow until you go up the hwy to the passes.

The WR aspect is what gets you an extended temp/season range - freaky science but interesting.

[mryakan]

My guess is similar to the WR but with the obviously more performance oriented tread design you can see in the photos on the web site.

I would consider them because in Seattle, there is hardly ever actual snow lingering in town and you don;t get into much snow until you go up the hwy to the passes.

The WR aspect is what gets you an extended temp/season range - freaky science but interesting.
Well the Finns know their snow science, I wouldn't doubt them.

[JD 6SPEED]

The Sports Package 18" Bridgestone RE50's combined with an open differential equate to a very precarious situation in snowy/icey weather.
I opted for a second set of wheels (17") with 225-45-17 Dunlop Wintersport M3's. It has made all the difference in the world.
As said many times, dressing appropriately for the weather applies to you car also.

Al. Wise

100% Agree, and I read those are great winter tires, TOP rated.

[rifle]

My 335 stays in when there is a hint of snow. Out comes the 4WD truck. I had horrible luck with an old 320i in the snow in MN, Col.and N.M.

[peppeBMW]

Driving with summer tires in the snow is suicidal no matter what kind of car you drive. I learned the hard way. I crashed my 5 week old 2004 VW R32 (which is AWD) because I couldn't stop in a snow storm. I was only leaving a parking lot and the car just kept going and there was less than an inch on the ground. $12k later, ouch! Car is only as good as the shoes it is wearing. I'd rather drive a RWD 3 series with Dunlop Wintersports on than a SUV or AWD Audi with summer performance tires in the snow. Good luck to you people driving in the snow with summers on! When I get my one series it will be properly dressed for winter next season!

[mryakan]

Driving with summer tires in the snow is suicidal no matter what kind of car you drive. I learned the hard way. I crashed my 5 week old 2004 VW R32 (which is AWD) because I couldn't stop in a snow storm. I was only leaving a parking lot and the car just kept going and there was less than an inch on the ground. $12k later, ouch! Car is only as good as the shoes it is wearing. I'd rather drive a RWD 3 series with Dunlop Wintersports on than a SUV or AWD Audi with summer performance tires in the snow. Good luck to you people driving in the snow with summers on! When I get my one series it will be properly dressed for winter next season!
Unfortunately some people don't like to take advice from people who had the bad experiences. I am lucky that my bad experiences were extremely minor compared to yours, but I too swore not to drive with summer tires in the snow if I cared for my life and car. Sorry that you had to learn the hard way and I hope the experiences and advice shared here will prevent it from happening to others.

[carguy7]

Driving with summer tires in the snow is suicidal no matter what kind of car you drive. I learned the hard way. I crashed my 5 week old 2004 VW R32 (which is AWD) because I couldn't stop in a snow storm. I was only leaving a parking lot and the car just kept going and there was less than an inch on the ground. $12k later, ouch! Car is only as good as the shoes it is wearing. I'd rather drive a RWD 3 series with Dunlop Wintersports on than a SUV or AWD Audi with summer performance tires in the snow. Good luck to you people driving in the snow with summers on! When I get my one series it will be properly dressed for winter next season!

I drove 2 winters with an A4 with Quattro and summers and had no trouble getting around. Quattro is great AWD system so it partially offset the summer tires. I don't recommend summer tires in Winter but depending on circumstances it is possible to make it through.

[peppeBMW]

I drove 2 winters with an A4 with Quattro and summers and had no trouble getting around. Quattro is great AWD system so it partially offset the summer tires. I don't recommend summer tires in Winter but depending on circumstances it is possible to make it through.


Guess you were luckier than I was. Maybe the Goodyear Eagles on the R32 were more aggressive. I even think the All Season Goodyears on my A4 are subpar in the snow. Nothing beats a snow tire in the cold winter months! Quattro is useless in my opinion with summer tires. Go to vwvortex or audiworld and you will get the same responses.

[carguy7]

Guess you were luckier than I was. Maybe the Goodyear Eagles on the R32 were more aggressive. I even think the All Season Goodyears on my A4 are subpar in the snow. Nothing beats a snow tire in the cold winter months! Quattro is useless in my opinion with summer tires. Go to vwvortex or audiworld and you will get the same responses.

One size does not fit all! Using summer tires in Winter may be useless in Canada but there are no issues in Houston. Everywhere in between is some shade of gray.

KC is medium gray depending on circumstances. If you live in KC, Missouri, you need everything you can get since roads may not be cleared. On the KS side, roads are cleared fast and winter tires may work for you.

[mryakan]

One size does not fit all! Using summer tires in Winter may be useless in Canada but there are no issues in Houston. Everywhere in between is some shade of gray.

KC is medium gray depending on circumstances. If you live in KC, Missouri, you need everything you can get since roads may not be cleared. On the KS side, roads are cleared fast and winter tires may work for you.
When did CT join the Canadian Confederation? :D

[cwoodffr]

I have coupe with sport package and did the first few days of snow with them....and nearly did not get home one day....even after multiple runs at some very light grades in my hood with about an inch of wet snow. If the tires can see the pavement at all you are ok, if completely snow or ice covered unless there is no grade....you are not going anywhere but sideways at the ass and to the curb. Imagine what an complete moron you would feel like if you caused an accident because you were on summer performance tires. If I were a cop I'd charge me with careless.

I then ordered a set of Blizzak LM 25's on the basic tire rack 17" rims (which I quite like the look of on my car!). They arrived in 3 business days. Transformed the car. I feel quite confident in anything so far. I have gotten out of my driveway before the plow came where the undercarriage was scraping on the snow.

Also, when people say summer tires, don't confuse all seasons. My wife has all seasons on her Odyssey van and it is quite good.

[TWW335i]

Just received a set of four 225/40R18 Nokian Hakkapeliitta 5 tires on Beyern Five wheels for the 335i sedan from Bavarian Autosport; have yet to try them out in the snow. $1,800 and comes with some damn good lookin wheels. Here's hopin' I don't get a flat this winter...Doesn't snow all too much where I live but it already snowed once and I tried to drive with the summers on and ended up sideways on my first turn. No damage to the car luckily, but bought the winter package as soon as I got home.

There is also now a Hakkapeliitta 5 runflat 17" winter tire. Bavarian Autosport -google it- In their wheels & tires section they have a wheel/tire winter package with runflat winter tires (225/45R17)and factory BMW wheels with TPM for $2,500. This for anyone who is looking for the added security of having the Run-Flats on. Its the only place I've seen run-flat winter tires in my search.

I agree that the best way to go with the 335 is to spring the extra cash for a wheel and tire package instead of swapping tires every season. Safe travels in the snow!

[sor]

So, we got our first major storm yesterday evening. I live in a hilly area with only a few hundred homes, and while the highways and major roads are generally good the main road up into this area can have packed snow even when plowed.

Last night when I came home from work I was coming up a hill and saw a car in the middle of the road up ahead. I flashed my brights instictively and slowed down because it had just begun to snow, there was maybe 1cm of accumulated snow 'pellets' (not quite hail) and it didn't occur to me that they could be stuck. He immediately turned on his hazards, so I went around him. It was a CTS with summer tires. This wasn't a steep grade at all, just a slight incline, and his tires were slowly spinning, and the tracks showed that he had gotten up the hill a bit off of momentum but then spun out wildly and was stuck right in the middle of the road. Crazy.

This morning there were 15" drifts in my driveway. I broke out the snowthrower and then took off to work. The main road was plowed but had packed snow with just a few patches of pavement here and there. On the way down the hill I passed three cars at the side of the road that were apparently stuck and snowed in. One was a G35 and another was a lexus of some sort. It's sad that people who spend so much on their cars won't buy the proper shoes for them.

[mryakan]

So, we got our first major storm yesterday evening. I live in a hilly area with only a few hundred homes, and while the highways and major roads are generally good the main road up into this area can have packed snow even when plowed.

Last night when I came home from work I was coming up a hill and saw a car in the middle of the road up ahead. I flashed my brights instictively and slowed down because it had just begun to snow, there was maybe 1cm of accumulated snow 'pellets' (not quite hail) and it didn't occur to me that they could be stuck. He immediately turned on his hazards, so I went around him. It was a CTS with summer tires. This wasn't a steep grade at all, just a slight incline, and his tires were slowly spinning, and the tracks showed that he had gotten up the hill a bit off of momentum but then spun out wildly and was stuck right in the middle of the road. Crazy.

This morning there were 15" drifts in my driveway. I broke out the snowthrower and then took off to work. The main road was plowed but had packed snow with just a few patches of pavement here and there. On the way down the hill I passed three cars at the side of the road that were apparently stuck and snowed in. One was a G35 and another was a lexus of some sort. It's sad that people who spend so much on their cars won't buy the proper shoes for them.
Which shoes do you have again?

[sor]

Michelin Alpin PA2, the V rated version.

[mryakan]

Michelin Alpin PA2, the V rated version.
Those are RFT right? How's the dry/wet/snow handling? I like Michelins, that's all I had as summer tires for 10 years on my 318ti, but they are usually too damn expensive. The last winter set I had on it were Michelin too and they pretty damn good (not sure what brand, they were used and looked like OEMs that came on the car from Germany).

[sor]

Non-rft. They are really good, but honestly this is the first time I've gone without all-seasons and had all wheel drive so anything is probably good to me. I had a friend a few years back who was a tire guy and he swears that Continental and Michelin are the only brands that have a rubber mixture that stays flexible below freezing.

[mryakan]

Non-rft. They are really good, but honestly this is the first time I've gone without all-seasons and had all wheel drive so anything is probably good to me. I had a friend a few years back who was a tire guy and he swears that Continental and Michelin are the only brands that have a rubber mixture that stays flexible below freezing.
I used the same ContiWinters on my e36 for 8 years in a row and only noticed some degradation in performce in their last year. I am pretty satisfied with my current Contis now too. I also heard many name brands don't use winter compound throughout their tread depth, it turns into an all season compound half way through. So far I am pretty please with both Michelin and Continental. Seems Europeans are better at this stuff!

[awise1961]

We've had close to thirty inches of snow here in Nashua in the past seven days, and my Dunlop Winterpsorts have worked wonderfully.
My wife's 540iA Sport with the Conti Extreme Contacts doesn't fair quite as well. It's time for more agressive/skinnier tires for her car.

Al. Wise

[mryakan]

My wife's 540iA Sport with the Conti Extreme Contacts doesn't fair quite as well. It's time for more agressive/skinnier tires for her car.

Al. Wise
Those are all season tires, so no wonder they are not as good in the heavy snow.

[Arustik1]

interesting thread...i just bought the 18" M3 wheels off an 03 E46 to use as my winter wheels. Only problem is finding tires and saving some money. I saw tires on tirerack for $800+ S**T!!!! Any solutions, the wheels are 225 f and 255 r!

Thanks