e90Post Censorship

[MrOffshore]

As many of you do I browse and contribute to various forums. I recently made a few posts on E90Post.com and my posts were pulled down with little explanation other than a few sarcastic remarks.

I was defending a product that I own, the JB2R and was growing tired of the Procede remarks about my product being a "Happy Meal" tune...these antics prove to be some of the most childish remarks I have ever heard since joining these forums, which was only a few weeks ago. For some reason I thought that the BMW community might have a bit more class than some of the other forums I have posted on in the past. I believe for the most part the do, but as usual there are always a few bad apples in the bunch.

What I find odd is that the moderators at E90Post.com are so protective of one of their sponsors that they won't allow someone with a product that is plainly being bashed to defend the product. I in now way made any derogatory comments to the Procede people but simply made a few statements that I believe to be factually true.

Without trying to start a debate I would like to take a moment to make my statements as I believe they will not be censored on this forum.

While I believe both Juicebox and Procede make nice products that perform well, they deliver two different kinds of performance. I chose the JB2 for several reasons that have been detailed on different threads earlier, so there is no reason to go into that...but my point was the following:

While Shiv sits on his computer badmouthing the JB2 unit, calling it a Happy Meal Tune and stating it can be built for $5 at Radio Shack he could be busy fulfilling his backorders...I've read by more than one person that they have waited for more than 45 days for their V2 Procede...they've expressed their concerns more than once with no explanation (that I've seen) from Shiv. Shiv has time to go out and work on the next great version of his products, spending the money on improvements that most of his customers must feel should be spent on building their backordered products....but his nonsense continues, he continues to make schoolgirl posts and spend his time at the track attempting to get the next best time...or as he explains high speed at the trap...just for his information, the speed, while impresssive is not what wins races...the shorter time wins every time...it's that simple.

So, regardless of what he states, the lower time is far more critical...ask any racer and I am certain they will tell you the same. I believe he touts the speed because it is higher than even he expected...and I believe is still questionable...but that just my opinion.

So, in the end, I can't help but think that Shiv has a few issues somewhere that he needs to deal with...as does E90Post.com. Both need to realize if someone is going to rip on something that a consumer has purchased that person will more than likely jump to the defense of what it is that they've purchased...I know I will...everytime. His slams attempt to question the very thought process I used in making my purchase...so I take it personally.

I have little or no respect for the E90Post.com moderator, (Jason, I believe was his name). My post was not the only one removed from the product bashing thread...others posted remarks to Shiv explaining what an A$$ he was being.

In the end, I believe Shiv is simply upset because the JB2 is FAR less expensive than his product, it's stealing his business and in my opinion it's a safer alternative than others on the market...I like the lower boost levels.

So, I guess we'll see what happens from here...will this thread remain alive or will it too be pulled? Can Shiv answer as to how he finds all the time to makes dergoatory posts and work on improving his product when he can't fill the orders he already has? It's been bothering me that my post was taken down, so I feel a little better letting everyone here know what happened, and hopefully it will be here as a reminder that there's always a way around the censorship.

[eightonezero]

Would you happen to have a link to the post?

Thanks

[Terry @ BMS]

I've learned that guy will stop at nothing to spread misinformation and make himself, or his product, look better. The fact of the matter is there are a lot of new great options coming on to the market (Helix, Dinan, etc), to join several already good products (JB2, TT, Xede). There is enough room for all of us here, but he doesn't like the competition. His product isn't half bad, he should focus on his own customers IMHO.

[MrOffshore]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96699

The above link is the one I and others posted on, but our posts were quickly pulled down. I started a thread addressing the posts being pulled, but it was either moved or pulled.

The agenda between Shiv and the moderator is not too hidden, it's in plain site of anyone who reads the forum. E90Post.com does not welcome opinions that differ from that of their sponsors. Who knows, maybe I'll sponsor the site to a tune (no pun intended) higher than Shiv...then let's see who get their opinions posted. It's a shame when posted opinions go to the highest bidder...but that's what it looks like over at E90Post.com...just my opinion.

[///MINI]

Hey, folks, we'll try to keep this thread alive. But, I will warn you that if things become too dicey with trolls coming aboard to reign negativity all over the place, we might have to shut her down until we can get her back up peacefully.

Just a word of caution to keep your tempers in check, although I have great faith in our members here.

Carry on... :)

[aus]

Shiv is pretty childish and petty. Just look at the old post here.
He seems to have the product that makes the most power so I don't know why he behaves the way he does. Each product is a little different and has a niche.

[MrOffshore]

Hey, folks, we'll try to keep this thread alive. But, I will warn you that if things become too dicey with trolls coming aboard to reign negativity all over the place, we might have to shut her down until we can get her back up peacefully.

Just a word of caution to keep your tempers in check, although I have great faith in our members here.

Carry on... :)

I appreciate the freedom to view my opinion. On principal, I don't have a problem with Shiv or Terry if they want to debate the essence of what makes their products different or better than the others...but when you come right out and start slamming with nothing more than slanderous remarks and schoolgirl names like Happy Meal Tune, you've crossed the line. If you're going to make statements like that expect some backlash from happy customers that see it another way. Having posts pulled down just shows you don't have the backbone or character to defend yourself in any kind of adult manner.

Naturally, a forum is not a place where you can come on and post anything you like...moderators are necessary, but my posts that were pulled in now way attached anyone...it just didn't shed light in a positive manner, but I believe everything I posted was true...and sometimes the truth hurts.

[CTT]

I've learned that guy will stop at nothing to spread misinformation and make himself, or his product, look better. The fact of the matter is there are a lot of new great options coming on to the market (Helix, Dinan, etc), to join several already good products (JB2, TT, Xede). There is enough room for all of us here, but he doesn't like the competition. His product isn't half bad, he should focus on his own customers IMHO.

Speaking of competition, random question for you all. When I first started looking at 335's I obviously wondered about tuning, and being an Audi guy the first thought was "I was wonder if GIAC will do one?" Any one have any idea?

[Vikingus]

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96699

The above link is the one I and others posted on, but our posts were quickly pulled down. I started a thread addressing the posts being pulled, but it was either moved or pulled.

The agenda between Shiv and the moderator is not too hidden, it's in plain site of anyone who reads the forum. E90Post.com does not welcome opinions that differ from that of their sponsors. Who knows, maybe I'll sponsor the site to a tune (no pun intended) higher than Shiv...then let's see who get their opinions posted. It's a shame when posted opinions go to the highest bidder...but that's what it looks like over at E90Post.com...just my opinion.
Yes, e90post is very biased towards that one competitor, some of us even call it e90procede forum as it suits very well. I'm also contributing to few different forums (can get boring here at work sometimes) and I had never had so many posts pulled from any forum that I have from e90 in last 2-3 months. I also have JB2R but I'm not a biased person, I talk/type as I see it and most of the time it's not even against the rules. Shiv with that thread just went to a new low level, although some fanbois find it amusing, I bet most that post and those who don't post find it, as you said, very childish...

Just shrug it off man, grab some popcorn and imagine you're reading a script for the worst soap opera series ever to grace your screen.

[mryakan]

Oh man, these kind of threads make me wish the 335 was never born. It is like being back in highschool again, no make that elementary school, only a much worse version. People on all sides of this debate should grow up and enjoy the car they have rather than have pissing contests, but that's just my opinion.

[///MINI]

Ok, so let's quell the bashing of another board and keep the discussions centered on the product. This will alleviate any flamewars.

Peace!

[MrOffshore]

It definitely goes without saying that there is more than one option to "tune" your car...I just found it difficult to sit and read the crazy bull$h!t that was being written about a product that I had purchased and quite frankly couldn't be happier with!

My car pulls extremely hard...better than I thought it would have, yet it drives completely like it did orginally when I'm not getting into it...you just can't beat that for the price I paid...it's a true value and simply isn't lacking in the power department.

[Terry @ BMS]

It definitely goes without saying that there is more than one option to "tune" your car...I just found it difficult to sit and read the crazy bull$h!t that was being written about a product that I had purchased and quite frankly couldn't be happier with!

My car pulls extremely hard...better than I thought it would have, yet it drives completely like it did orginally when I'm not getting into it...you just can't beat that for the price I paid...it's a true value and simply isn't lacking in the power department.

Hey Rich, I put up a post on e90post to try to end all this crap.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96983

[Beer Goggles]

I had my post removed too after telling SHIV his antics were childish...seems like he continues whatever happened in the past.

I just laugh at all the people that swear by a product that has had more updates than my computer in the last year. Nothing like releasing something that's not finished. But that's what happens when you blanket tune, the tune may work on his car, but that don't mean it works for all.

As I said there, a true piggy back is tunable, and not just adjusting boost or tricking timing...which is probably just adding fuel which is what other piggybacks to do combat detonation.

I think some of the people are so new to FI that they latch on to the first person who talks to them in a way they can't understand.

[Jeff@eurobahn]

Now you can see why we are only a minor sponsor over there. We were the first competition to the procede even though we didn't consider ourselves that way. There were a few customers who we actually sent to Shiv in the beginning till we saw his tactics. Of course we now only send people looking for a different type of solution to AA. As a result AA has sent us a bunch of folks as well.

Some people never learn that honorable business people with good products and customer service need not resort to attacking the competition. Our sales volume is perfect example of that. But thinking you will get reasonable discourse with some one like Shiv is a waste of time.

Jeff
Eurobahn

[Blue Streek]

I agree with the OP. Based on all that I've read at E90 Post for the past 6 months, I wouldn't buy any product from Shiv. The PROcede might be a good product for performance numbers, but with an average delay on shipping being 45 days and poor customer support, forget it. That doesn't even take into consideration all the trash talking and childish arguments over there in that forum... all mostly because of some of the vendors and moderators (and some other folks). The active members of Bimmerforums seem to be a bit more mature than that. That's why I mostly post and read here.

[Beer Goggles]

Jeff, I'd like to commend you on your demeanor on the boards. You've always been pretty stand up, and never seemed to take the bait or engage in internet bickering. Customers will always fight to prove what they bought is better (I don't know when I bought something that I didnt think it was the best), but manufacturers have to be careful of their words online. As a sarcastic SOB, who joke a lot, my sparkling personality doesn't always come across correct when read by somebody who doesn't know me.

But I was "warned" over there in a first couple posts for just talking about the crap going on over there.

[mryakan]

Now you can see why we are only a minor sponsor over there. We were the first competition to the procede even though we didn't consider ourselves that way. There were a few customers who we actually sent to Shiv in the beginning till we saw his tactics. Of course we now only send people looking for a different type of solution to AA. As a result AA has sent us a bunch of folks as well.

Some people never learn that honorable business people with good products and customer service need not resort to attacking the competition. Our sales volume is perfect example of that. But thinking you will get reasonable discourse with some one like Shiv is a waste of time.

Jeff
Eurobahn
Jeff,
The way you represent yourself on this forum is the way every business person or salesman should, very honorable, Kudos. I also like how you keep yourself away from such shenanigans and never get into the bickering. I wish the rest would learn how to run a good business, we'd all be better off, interested parties and not.
In a way this kinda reminds me of how Microsoft responds to Apple childish (albeit funny) iMac vs PC ads: They don't, they just ignore them because they know those are tactics that appeal only to the uninformed. P.S. I am not MAC bashing here, just don't agree with Apple's marketing strategy of spreading FUD. Oh and I hate Microsoft although I use all their products. Sorry for the off topic.

[Beer Goggles]

Jeff,
The way you represent yourself on this forum is the way every business person or salesman should, very honorable, Kudos. I also like how you keep yourself away from such shenanigans and never get into the bickering. I wish the rest would learn how to run a good business, we'd all be better off, interested parties and not.
In a way this kinda reminds me of how Microsoft responds to Apple childish (albeit funny) iMac vs PC ads: They don't, they just ignore them because they know those are tactics that appeal only to the uninformed. P.S. I am not MAC bashing here, just don't agree with Apple's marketing strategy of spreading FUD. Oh and I hate Microsoft although I use all their products. Sorry for the off topic.


PCs do suck :)

[Jeff@eurobahn]

PCs do suck :)


:) Thanks guys for the kind words! But in all honesty I learned a lot from my interactions with you all right here on this forum. During a wonderful conversation with Carol Shelby a few short years ago he said to me "the smartest guy in the room is the one in the back with mouth shut and ears open" I have not always been able to follow his advice but I try :)

We use PC's around here only for programming cars since all the hex and DME editors and compiling only work on Windows. But we run everything else on Apples! :)

Jeff
Eurobahn

[MrOffshore]

The posts on this thread have convinced me that I was not "off my rocker", when I first posted this thread I thought I might catch some grief from people saying I was wrong or starting problems that didn't exist. It's nice to see so many others that agree with what I stated, being new to these forums, I didn't want to rock the boat, but I was on my last thread in such short time, I can't stand unwarrented censorship and I really can't stand cyber-bullying, and I believe I and others were experiencing both.

[Jeff@eurobahn]

Right on the money mate! This business is a blast to be a part of. But when you lose sight of the real purpose which is to make peoples dreams come true then it becomes a nightmare.

Jeff
Eurobahn

[White05X3]

Frankly, the conduct of all of the "tuners" was a part of my purchasing decision. I decided to act like the ultimate American and vote with my pocketbook. In the end I chose neither the JB nor the Procede and remain pleased with my choice. Thanks again John at the MShop and Jeff for all of your gracious support!

I have been watching these forums for a long time now. My impression was that Shiv started off being a very helpful and informative addition while Terry was acting like a jerk. Now I must say that my opinions of those two people have done a 180. Now Terry is acting like a professional and his offer on e90post to move-on was very high class! Well done indeed!

I met Shiv at a LA Dyno Day and was impressed with his knowledge and patience. While I have not met Terry in person, I hope to soon.

To the OP I am sorry the folks at e90post pulled your thread. I think that was poorly thought out. Censorship of any sort is unacceptable and in my opinion you have the right to be annoyed.

[carguy7]

As many of you .................................................

That has to be in top 1% of longest posts. Congrats.

[MrOffshore]

That has to be in top 1% of longest posts. Congrats.

I knew that going in...and the problem is when they're that long they typically are left unread...but I had a problem conveying everything in a shorter manner...I was hoping the title of the thread would strike some interest among the forum members.

[sambonator]

Sam what really matters here is whether you got the R switch installed, and how we can put your car on a diet.. :) Get the rims on yet? Be sure to run ~1/3 tank of 96+ octane this time. No extra stuff in the car too! :)

Heheh ya I got the R installed last night :). Did some test runs 1/2 tank with just NOS Octane Booster Race Formula (MMT, Kerosene, and Nitromethane!). Definitely runs stronger, even in the higher temps than normal at night. Previous tests have been at like 50-55 degrees, premium fuel and JBS2 only. Santa Ana winds made temps go up to 68 last night, but its definitely stronger!

I'll be swapping to the lightweight wheels today, then begin testing out race gas as well as some homebrew stuff... :devillook :).

On another topic, do you think RISS will actually be shipping? I get a feeling demand has been pretty low... I might end up going with UR DPs.

[MrOffshore]

I still have not had a chance to put any race gas in my car and test my "R" upgrade...I like knowing it's there though.

[Terry @ BMS]

I still have not had a chance to put any race gas in my car and test my "R" upgrade...I like knowing it's there though.

I know what you mean... I think with the JB2 you're fast enough, but say one day you need an extra 20rwhp/30rwtq, it's only a switch away.. :)

[Terry @ BMS]

Heheh ya I got the R installed last night :). Did some test runs 1/2 tank with just NOS Octane Booster Race Formula (MMT, Kerosene, and Nitromethane!). Definitely runs stronger, even in the higher temps than normal at night. Previous tests have been at like 50-55 degrees, premium fuel and JBS2 only. Santa Ana winds made temps go up to 68 last night, but its definitely stronger!

I'll be swapping to the lightweight wheels today, then begin testing out race gas as well as some homebrew stuff... :devillook :).

On another topic, do you think RISS will actually be shipping? I get a feeling demand has been pretty low... I might end up going with UR DPs.

Interesting, so no codes on 91 + NOS octane booster?

[MrOffshore]

Interesting, so no codes on 91 + NOS octane booster?

Terry, what would your thoughts be on 93 + NOS octane booster...do you think this would a be safe bet? I would imagine I would put it in the tank (not sure how much to add...ratio-wise) and drive around a few minutes to mix it up...then leave the car off for a minutes before switching it on...then let her rip. This may be an easier alternative to me finding racegas...I would imagine I can buy the NOS octane boost at a typical parts store?

[Terry @ BMS]

It's hard for me to say... I wouldn't suggest it, but it could work. At some point I will test the NOS race formula, but at the moment my scanning cable broke and I'm waiting to get it back.

[MrOffshore]

It's hard for me to say... I wouldn't suggest it, but it could work. At some point I will test the NOS race formula, but at the moment my scanning cable broke and I'm waiting to get it back.

Let me know what your final recommendation is if you do the testing. Thanks.

[Terry @ BMS]

Let me know what your final recommendation is if you do the testing. Thanks.

OK will do!

[sambonator]

Interesting, so no codes on 91 + NOS octane booster?

Last night's testing, I saw no codes. However, I did notice it idled a bit rough. Throughout last night's trial runs, shut downs and start ups, I didn't get any codes. Other than slightly rough idling, no codes.

However, this morning, when I started up the engine, I got the half-engine symbol for the 1st time. I turned off the engine, removed key, locked doors, opened doors, then started again. Half engine code was still there with SES light. I switched off the R switch, restarted, and the code went away, but the SES light was still lit. I went to the golf store without any issues. At the parking lot, I switched on the R switch again, started the car, no issues. SES light is gone too. Drove home and no codes. I've been driving all day stopping and starting the engine with R switched on, and it's running fine again now.

I did run 1 bottle to about 8 gallons of gas (bottle said to use it only with 16 gallons), so perhaps that was an issue, causing the rough idle and code during cold idle.

Then I swapped out my ultra-heavy 19" wheels with the 18" light wheels/tires, went for a spin, and WOW the wheels made a HUGE difference! Well, ok the cooler temps were helping too, but I've never felt the car this fast, especially at higher speeds. Off the line and through 2nd gear, I can't tell much of a difference...I'm just traction-limited and they go by too quick... but 3rd gear on up feels MUCH stronger... really pulls a lot harder.

I'll be getting a performance meter (maybe not the VBOX but perhaps the cheaper GTech or something) just so I can quantify my butt-dyno readings.

Anyway I'm down below 1/4 tank with the 91 octane/ NOS Octane booster mix, so tomorrow (or maybe later tonight) I'll probably put in a few gallons of 100 octane and go for a run again :)


Hey Terry did you snip off the factory connectors that plugged into the power distribution block and solder or crimp a cable to it? Or did you craft some kind of socket for the connectors to plug into?


Anyway, JBS2R Rocks! :buttrock :drummer :redspot

[Terry @ BMS]

Strange on the code... Could be a loose wire on the switch. That doesn't sound like a gas code (they would come up @ WOT). Could also be a flaky solder joint on the switch as its been pretty cold out. Let's keep an eye on it and if needed we can swap it out in between runs @ California Speedway.

On the battery I changed one of the cables with a connector out for a cable at pep boys that had eyelits on both sides. Then I left the ground power connector disconnected. No cutting, etc, easy to switch back if needed.



Last night's testing, I saw no codes. However, I did notice it idled a bit rough. Throughout last night's trial runs, shut downs and start ups, I didn't get any codes. Other than slightly rough idling, no codes.

However, this morning, when I started up the engine, I got the half-engine symbol for the 1st time. I turned off the engine, removed key, locked doors, opened doors, then started again. Half engine code was still there with SES light. I switched off the R switch, restarted, and the code went away, but the SES light was still lit. I went to the golf store without any issues. At the parking lot, I switched on the R switch again, started the car, no issues. SES light is gone too. Drove home and no codes. I've been driving all day stopping and starting the engine with R switched on, and it's running fine again now.

I did run 1 bottle to about 8 gallons of gas (bottle said to use it only with 16 gallons), so perhaps that was an issue, causing the rough idle and code during cold idle.

Then I swapped out my ultra-heavy 19" wheels with the 18" light wheels/tires, went for a spin, and WOW the wheels made a HUGE difference! Well, ok the cooler temps were helping too, but I've never felt the car this fast, especially at higher speeds. Off the line and through 2nd gear, I can't tell much of a difference...I'm just traction-limited and they go by too quick... but 3rd gear on up feels MUCH stronger... really pulls a lot harder.

I'll be getting a performance meter (maybe not the VBOX but perhaps the cheaper GTech or something) just so I can quantify my butt-dyno readings.

Anyway I'm down below 1/4 tank with the 91 octane/ NOS Octane booster mix, so tomorrow (or maybe later tonight) I'll probably put in a few gallons of 100 octane and go for a run again :)


Hey Terry did you snip off the factory connectors that plugged into the power distribution block and solder or crimp a cable to it? Or did you craft some kind of socket for the connectors to plug into?


Anyway, JBS2R Rocks! :buttrock :drummer :redspot

[sambonator]

I went for some runs again tonight before I put in race gas. Nice and cool outside at 48 degrees F. Feels very strong! No codes, startups were fine. Went and put in $20 worth of race gas, ran again. Definitely the race gas mix feels a little stronger and smoother. Going up a slight incline, 2nd gear break the rear tires loose and I have to back off the gas pedal.

So my overall impression of the NOS Octane Booster Race Formula is that its good in a pinch, but not great. I'll keep the R switch turned on and see if I have any startup codes in the morning. If I don't get it anymore, maybe it was the higher-than-recommended concentration of the Octane Booster. If I do get the code again, do you think it might be the switch? Maybe condensation caused by the colder weather? Or were you saying it could be a poor solder connection to a PC board or something in the switch? It could also be my install so I may open up the ECU box and make sure the connections are good and that I taped them all up properly to prevent shorts.

So what do you think of running slightly smaller diameter tires? I'll be putting on the used Kumho Ecsta V710's on the back but its 245/35/18's. Car "should" feel lighter and accelerate better... and give me better times, don't you think? In any case its better than the tires currently on the BBS RC's, which are 235/40/18's Falken Azenis RT615's. Great tires but a little taller than stock, and narrower (on rear).

[sambonator]

P.S. What software are you using for OBDII code analysis? AutoEnginuity looks pretty good, but no one seems to have one that reads all the N54 codes and parameters.

[Terry @ BMS]

Traction is way more important than gearing, so run the widest softest tire you can. Generally having a taller tire improves traction as the sidewall can absorb more shock.

If that code comes back let me know and we'll track it down. A loose wire is most likely but I figured there is no way you'd do that... ;)

For scanning software I am using Auterra Dynoscan now until AutoEnginuity comes out with their extended e90 software. They claim sometime early next year on it.

T


I went for some runs again tonight before I put in race gas. Nice and cool outside at 48 degrees F. Feels very strong! No codes, startups were fine. Went and put in $20 worth of race gas, ran again. Definitely the race gas mix feels a little stronger and smoother. Going up a slight incline, 2nd gear break the rear tires loose and I have to back off the gas pedal.

So my overall impression of the NOS Octane Booster Race Formula is that its good in a pinch, but not great. I'll keep the R switch turned on and see if I have any startup codes in the morning. If I don't get it anymore, maybe it was the higher-than-recommended concentration of the Octane Booster. If I do get the code again, do you think it might be the switch? Maybe condensation caused by the colder weather? Or were you saying it could be a poor solder connection to a PC board or something in the switch? It could also be my install so I may open up the ECU box and make sure the connections are good and that I taped them all up properly to prevent shorts.

So what do you think of running slightly smaller diameter tires? I'll be putting on the used Kumho Ecsta V710's on the back but its 245/35/18's. Car "should" feel lighter and accelerate better... and give me better times, don't you think? In any case its better than the tires currently on the BBS RC's, which are 235/40/18's Falken Azenis RT615's. Great tires but a little taller than stock, and narrower (on rear).